Do you like where FE is heading...? /:

[Jave]

Even after FE14 comes, out, I'll still consider FE13 the worst game in the series. Unless, you know, FE14 is somehow worse. But that's not possible, right? R-right?

I honestly can't even begin to understand how can someone hate FE13 to the extent he neglects the possibility that a future entry in the series can be a worse game. Specially since objectively speaking, FE13 is not a bad game.

Edited April 7, 2015 by Jave

[Zasplach]

I honestly can't even begin to understand how can someone hate FE13 to the extent he neglects the possibility that a future entry in the series can be a worse game. Specially since objectively speaking, FE13 is not a bad game.

It's very difficult to be objective about personal tastes. And maybe he's just an optimist in thinking that, in his opinion, they can't do worse. Awakening wasn't my favorite entry in the series either; personally I don't like to say 'worst' about a series I thoroughly enjoy, so I choose not to compartmentalize them that way.

IF may be better, it may be worse than Awakening, who's to say? But, I'm hopeful that the new game will be more to my tastes.

[Jave]

It's very difficult to be objective about personal tastes. And maybe he's just an optimist in thinking that, in his opinion, they can't do worse. Awakening wasn't my favorite entry in the series either; personally I don't like to say 'worst' about a series I thoroughly enjoy, so I choose not to compartmentalize them that way.

IF may be better, it may be worse than Awakening, who's to say? But, I'm hopeful that the new game will be more to my tastes.

Yeah, I agree with this. While FE13 is definitely not my favorite either, I definitely enjoyed playing it many times (currently on my sixth playthrough). I also hope FE14 is a better game because, well, why wouldn't I? I certainly don't want the series to get worse. But given my opinion of FE13, I certainly wouldn't mind if FE14 is in the same level of quality, since at least it means a game I can enjoy all the way through.

For the record, I also agree FE is a throughly enjoyable series. Even my least favorite entry in the series is a game I can't say it's bad.

[Loki Laufeyson]

The Zelda cycle does not exist.

Fucking L O L. You keep telling yourself that, chumpy. *snicker* Ive been a part of the Zelda fandom for the over 25 years its been a thing. The entitlement of the fandom is highly noteworthy. Twilight Princess was regarded as dog shit from core members of the fandom. After Skyward Sword came out, the same goddamn people began praising Twilight Princess as "a solid game". It doesnt get much clearer than that. It happened with Majora's Mask. It happened with Wind Waker. It will happen with Skyward Sword once Zelda U comes out.

FE doesnt have the same cycle. Instead, we have incredibly stubborn people who reject new ideas. They feel this way because they dont like new fans invading their space. Unlike the Zelda example, FE's fandom has quite a bit of gate keeping involved. It is equally as annoying as the Zelda example.

[FrostyFireMage]

Fucking L O L. You keep telling yourself that, chumpy. *snicker* Ive been a part of the Zelda fandom for the over 25 years its been a thing. The entitlement of the fandom is highly noteworthy. Twilight Princess was regarded as dog shit from core members of the fandom. After Skyward Sword came out, the same goddamn people began praising Twilight Princess as "a solid game". It doesnt get much clearer than that. It happened with Majora's Mask. It happened with Wind Waker. It will happen with Skyward Sword once Zelda U comes out.

FE doesnt have the same cycle. Instead, we have incredibly stubborn people who reject new ideas. They feel this way because they dont like new fans invading their space. Unlike the Zelda example, FE's fandom has quite a bit of gate keeping involved. It is equally as annoying as the Zelda example.

Basically this

If you don't consider the Oifey of the game to be God Almighty and the Est to be utter trash, you're a filthy casual in the eyes of the hardcore FE crowd and the plague that is destroying the fandom from the inside

Woe betide you if you even dare praise an archer or a low tier character

Edited April 7, 2015 by FrostyFireMage

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

Basically this

If you don't consider the Oifey of the game to be God Almighty and the Est to be utter trash, you're a filthy casual in the eyes of the hardcore FE crowd and the plague that is destroying the fandom from the inside

Woe betide you if you even dare praise an archer or a low tier character

glad to see that my sigurature is still accurate after so many years.

and yes the zelda cycle DOES exist.

[Paper Jam]

I bet that when FE14 comes out, it'll immediately become the most hated game in the series and suddenly everyone will realize how awesome FE13 was.

Yup, Zelda cycle applies to Fire Emblem now.

Do people love FE11 more now than they did before FE13 came out?

[Loki Laufeyson]

Do people love FE11 more now than they did before FE13 came out?

Actually yeah. Its not as widespread as what happens with Zelda games, but i have seen people praise FE11 in the wake of FE13.

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

Actually yeah. Its not as widespread as what happens with Zelda games, but i have seen people praise FE11 in the wake of FE13.

yeah i can say this has happened too, granted i've always liked 11, but i have seen more people admit that its a good basic designed game.

[Junkhead]

Basically this

If you don't consider the Oifey of the game to be God Almighty and the Est to be utter trash, you're a filthy casual in the eyes of the hardcore FE crowd and the plague that is destroying the fandom from the inside

I don't think that way, Florina. 8,[

[Loki Laufeyson]

yeah i can say this has happened too, granted i've always liked 11, but i have seen more people admit that its a good basic designed game.

Ive seen a couple of goons actually say that FE11 has the best writing in the series, in the wake of FE13. I just cant...

Saying FE11 is "solid" in terms of gameplay is one thing, but...

I don't think that way, Florina. 8,[

That guy kinda misrepped my argument anyway, so dont worry about it. (cuz thats not what i meant in terms of "gate keeping". What i meant was how if someone comes in new to the series and loves Awakening, they tend to earn the ire of the "old" guard. Especially those who play FE for story but dont play the first five or so games in the series.)

[Rawkstar]

FE doesnt have the same cycle. Instead, we have incredibly stubborn people who reject new ideas. They feel this way because they dont like new fans invading their space. Unlike the Zelda example, FE's fandom has quite a bit of gate keeping involved. It is equally as annoying as the Zelda example.

Agreed. Seems like you're treated as a scrub if you like the newer games, and if you aren't too fond of something from one of the older games (or you do enjoy something that wasn't very popular, ie: world map system in Sacred Stones), you're just cruicified by everyone. Like seriously, if you aren't on the same page as everyone else, it's just a mess. Honestly, I'm looking forward to the new game bringing in all of the "casuals" and scrubs. They seem more respectable than a lot of the older fans for whatever reason.

[Irysa]

Ive seen a couple of goons actually say that FE11 has the best writing in the series, in the wake of FE13. I just cant...

Saying FE11 is "solid" in terms of gameplay is one thing, but...

The praise is the raw script composition, not the overall narrative. In terms of core script, it is definitely one of (if not the) best in the series when we talk about the english localisation. There is an actually maintained prose throughout, and numerous literary techniques employed that frankly just about nothing else in the series get close to. In layman's terms, it reads very well, even if the subject matter is far from remarkable.

People often fail to make the distinction or understanding in what the word "writing" means when applied to a fictious work means though.

Edited April 8, 2015 by Irysa

[Loki Laufeyson]

The praise is the raw script composition, not the overall narrative. In terms of core script, it is definitely one of (if not the) best in the series when we talk about the english localisation. There is an actually maintained prose throughout, and numerous literary techniques employed that frankly just about nothing else in the series get close to. In layman's terms, it reads very well, even if the subject matter is far from remarkable.

People often fail to make the distinction or understanding in what the word "writing" means when applied to a fictious work means though.

You are like, the only one to ever say that though. People when praising FE11's writing are not actually talking about that. And if you are talking about such matters, you would understand that FE13 has some of the best localization and writing in the series. No, people praise the narrative of FE11 quite a bit because its seen as the cool thing to do.

[Radiant head]

I don't see the FE series as ever following any clear linear direction (sequels aside) so I don't think Awakening is "the direction" that the series is heading in the direction of.

[Irysa]

You are like, the only one to ever say that though. People when praising FE11's writing are not actually talking about that. And if you are talking about such matters, you would understand that FE13 has some of the best localization and writing in the series. No, people praise the narrative of FE11 quite a bit because its seen as the cool thing to do.

This is merely anecdote vs anecdote, but I have not seen anyone doing as you describe. FE11's core plot is hardly special in any respect, it's simply well presented. I have seen people praise FE11's writing, but it is quite obvious that they are using the word "writing" in a way that isn't entirely accurate.

And as for FE13, FE13's localisation actually diminishes many aspects of the original Japanese script. You may enjoy reading some of these posts on the subject. It is also almost entirely a dialogue, so it makes far less use of colourful imagery, allegories, ideophones and the like compared to FE11, and on the whole is a much duller read. FE13's flavor is found in it's subject matter within dialogues, not the way it is written.

Edited April 8, 2015 by Irysa

[Florete]

Agreed. Seems like you're treated as a scrub if you like the newer games, and if you aren't too fond of something from one of the older games (or you do enjoy something that wasn't very popular, ie: world map system in Sacred Stones), you're just cruicified by everyone. Like seriously, if you aren't on the same page as everyone else, it's just a mess. Honestly, I'm looking forward to the new game bringing in all of the "casuals" and scrubs. They seem more respectable than a lot of the older fans for whatever reason.

I must be looking in the wrong places, because I don't see any of this. I find it much more common that veterans really enjoy Awakening, even if they're aware of the game's flaws. Some don't like the ability to grind, but it's not usually seen as a big negative, and I don't know anyone who dislikes having a world map.

There's just a vocal minority of people who really hate the newer games and lament the direction the series is taking, but, well, that's humanity for you.

For the record, I am an older fan, I really like Awakening, and I'm plenty happy seeing newer members. I would like for people who started with Awakening to try older games, but by no means do I think it's some rite of passage into the fandom.

[Rawkstar]

I must be looking in the wrong places, because I don't see any of this. I find it much more common that veterans really enjoy Awakening, even if they're aware of the game's flaws. Some don't like the ability to grind, but it's not usually seen as a big negative, and I don't know anyone who dislikes having a world map.

There's just a vocal minority of people who really hate the newer games and lament the direction the series is taking, but, well, that's humanity for you.

For the record, I am an older fan, I really like Awakening, and I'm plenty happy seeing newer members. I would like for people who started with Awakening to try older games, but by no means do I think it's some rite of passage into the fandom.

Admittedly, I did make an over-generalization, however since I've rejoined these forums (on the day of the direct presentation), I've seen more that enough bashing on Awakening. I can't say I didn't initiate my fair share of those debates (though all I really did was say that I liked it more than a few other specific games in the franchise), but still, it does feel like there's quite a split in the fanbase. Hell, someone implied that if you didn't buy/play PoR or RD then you aren't a "true fan". Ultimately I do agree with the majority of your post, especially the last two lines, but I have seen a fair amount of hate towards Awakening which I find rather irritating. Then again, you are more likely to notice things you disagree with, rather than the ones you do agree with, so that may have something to do with it. At the end of the day we are the customers, I'd rather see people find this as a talking point out of interest, rather than disapointment.

[Loki Laufeyson]

I must be looking in the wrong places, because I don't see any of this. I find it much more common that veterans really enjoy Awakening, even if they're aware of the game's flaws. Some don't like the ability to grind, but it's not usually seen as a big negative, and I don't know anyone who dislikes having a world map.

There's just a vocal minority of people who really hate the newer games and lament the direction the series is taking, but, well, that's humanity for you.

For the record, I am an older fan, I really like Awakening, and I'm plenty happy seeing newer members. I would like for people who started with Awakening to try older games, but by no means do I think it's some rite of passage into the fandom.

Theres a knot of people on tumblr who are kinda...stuck in Jugdral. While these people mean well, they come off as awfully xenophobic a lot of the time. The point is, there shouldnt be gate keeping at all. If people dont want to try the older games, they shouldnt get roasted for it. You must admit the level of pretentiousness of that vocal minority. If you cant do that, welp.

[Rewjeo]

Ive seen a couple of goons actually say that FE11 has the best writing in the series, in the wake of FE13. I just cant...

Saying FE11 is "solid" in terms of gameplay is one thing, but...

Jumping back a few posts, but I thought I'd clear up what I've seen of this: This is not talking about the game as a whole being closer to great literature than the others, but that what people bothered writing was pretty well written, i.e. the localization team did a good job. I haven't played it in long enough to really argue one way or the other, but that's the case as I've seen it.

[-Cynthia-]

Theres a knot of people on tumblr who are kinda...stuck in Jugdral. While these people mean well, they come off as awfully xenophobic a lot of the time. The point is, there shouldnt be gate keeping at all. If people dont want to try the older games, they shouldnt get roasted for it. You must admit the level of pretentiousness of that vocal minority. If you cant do that, welp.

I do honestly find it a little strange that someone would really like Awakening yet not be open to the possibility of trying some of the older games because generally when someone enjoys one thing of a genre they'll also enjoy some other similar things. That might not be quite what you mean though.

[Loki Laufeyson]

I do honestly find it a little strange that someone would really like Awakening yet not be open to the possibility of trying some of the older games because generally when someone enjoys one thing of a genre they'll also enjoy some other similar things. That might not be quite what you mean though.

I honestly have not seen anyone outright say "I love Awakening, but i have no interest in the rest of the series." first hand. But apparently it happens...? Im just sayin' fandom can just let those weirdos be.

[Florete]

Theres a knot of people on tumblr who are kinda...stuck in Jugdral. While these people mean well, they come off as awfully xenophobic a lot of the time. The point is, there shouldnt be gate keeping at all. If people dont want to try the older games, they shouldnt get roasted for it. You must admit the level of pretentiousness of that vocal minority. If you cant do that, welp.

Well, I don't visit Tumblr, so that's that. And yes, there should not be gate keeping; I meant as such with my post.

EDIT: Hm, that last part sounded wrong even to me.

EDIT2: Better way to say it: I basically agree with everything you've said, but at the same time, it should be understood that people are allowed to hate the newer stuff if they wish just as much as people are allowed to love them.

Edited April 8, 2015 by Red Fox of Fire

[Kirie]

I'm overall pretty positive about the future and direction of Fire Emblem. I'm glad IS has managed to break into a more mainstream audience since more money is good for the health of the series; we all know the story about FE:A being the last game if it didn't cut it. I'm an older FE fan (been playing since the original FE7 GBA release) that happens to love Awakening (despite its many flaws), and the scope of the coming content in the new game is just amazing to me; I can't remember the last time I was so excited about a game (it certainly wasn't FE:A because the last game I'd played before that was SD which just left a bad taste in my mouth and I went into FE:A with very cautious optimism).

I know that there a lot of people disappointed in FE:A and worried for the future of the game because of FE:A's flaws. Whether it's the anime trope fanservice, or the character design, or the poor map objectives, or because Chrom ran over their dog, or whatever. It seems like that kind of worry-mongering is common in a lot of video game communities, though it seems particularly strong here to me, and is honestly why I'm not really hanging around here particularly much.

I'll take FEif as it comes and weigh its merits and flaws when it gets here.

In response to the FE:A fans not playing the older games as much, I do have a few friends who fall into this category for a number of reasons. Part of it is just accessibility. 1-6 are generally only available as ROMs with translation patches (and unprofessional translations with minimal localization as well, which does bother some people), and 7-10 are rare/expensive to find, though FE7 (and 8, I think?) being available on the WiiU VC is nice for those with WiiUs. Lack of gameplay features is another issue; I admit that even I kind of make a >.< face playing older games and having to get used to manually keeping track of enemy units all over again. Another issue, silly as it may sound, is the dated graphics, etc. of the older games. I've noticed this issue seems to be more prevalent the younger they are. But if you're used to newer stuff and you look at some of the sprites and portraits of the NES/SNES era, that can be rather off-putting. I've had the most success suggesting the GBA games, and I've offered to share my hard copies of 7-10 as well to interested parties.

[RJWalker]

I'll be honest. I not expecting much from FE14. All the mechanics that I disliked from FE13 seem to be returning in this one.

Once again, it is almost never the same group of fans constantly changing their opinions and decrying the new games.

"Hates the new games because they're new" is a false argument. It is far rarer than you think is enirely coincidental. I don't hate FE13 because it's new. I hate it because I think it's worst in the series. Being new has absolutely nothing to do with. Anyone who accuses me of this can go piss off.