Return of Casual

[Awakener_]

It shouldn't have been an option in the first place. Grinding can ruin the game.

Ruined whose game? It most definitely didn't ruined my game since I can actually bother to finish Luna+ with it. Too anti-fun on Luna+ without some extra assist.

Edited April 23, 2015 by Awakener_

[Cysx]

The issue with Awakening it was designed from the ground up with Casual in mind.

You know, I never saw it that way, and while it may not be what you meant, Awakening is by far the FE where I had the most resets due to deaths. It may just be a matter of difficulty though, since I went straight to hard mode followed by lunatic. But it makes me wonder if that's the only reason.

I believe it's too late to complain about casual mode now; that's how a considerable part of the fanbase enjoys the game at this point, so it would be selfish to ask for it to be thrown out. I'll say though... its inclusion was a problem. They decided to cater to another type of audience, and this may go farther than the implementation of this seemingly harmless mode. This audience has different needs, different desires, and they bring in the money so they cannot be ignored, so the games have to change. The future will tell us if Awakening was to be remembered as that one FE with the weird priorities, or if that's what the series' about now. Fire Emblem If indeed Applaud

But, I'm pretty happy that they decided to go for two versions that each catter to a part of the fanbase. I think that was the best choice they could have made at this point, and I have very high hopes for this new game.

Tl;dr: Yes, it should come back.

Edited April 23, 2015 by Cysx

[TheCaptain]

We just need some incentive for players to graduate from Casual to Classic.

Yes. This is a good solution. I don't mind casual players, but it does kinda annoy me when people don't even TRY classic when it can actually add a lot of fun to the game.

Edited April 23, 2015 by TheCaptain

[Integrity]

You mean from my side or..?

You forgot to mention that I don't care.

i wasn't talking about the part of your post that was about you not caring about casual mode, i was talking about the rest of your post, the part that i quoted :P

mostly what i mean is TRUE FIRE EMBLEM FANS get really bristly when the devs do anything that makes the game more accessible (casual mode) because it's somehow ruining their experience that you don't have to be so hardcore to enjoy the game. it's not just fire emblem fans, ofc (fuck off original xcom fans by now holy shit), and i'm not really picking on you in particular, it's just that your post happened to perfectly exemplify the "ha ha it would be funny if is went back to its roots because fuck casuals" mindset that's literally bad for the series, not just unhealthy overall.

love and aloha dude

EDIT:

Yes. This is a good solution. I don't mind casual players, but it does kinda annoy me when people don't even TRY classic when it can actually add a lot of fun to the game.

see, like this. why does it annoy you? i've been playing fire emblem for years, played all the classic ones, loved all the classic ones, am apparently enough of a nerd about it to get promoted to moderator, and i 100% believe that the game is more fun on casual mode than classic in about 95% of situations, and that there's nothing wrong with not playing classic mode.

Edited April 23, 2015 by Integrity

[Tryhard]

I restart the map 95% in the case of a unit dying anyway and I bet most others playing on classic do anyway so I do kinda wonder how it ends up different aside for me perhaps having to put more time aside to beat a map, some people would claim it to be more tedious

TRUE FIRE EMBLEM FANS

worship Edited April 23, 2015 by Tryhard

[NuggetofButt]

I think it should return as it provides another way to enjoy the game.

Classic mode, for people who want to play the game simply for what it is, a strategy game. This allows them to enjoy the other parts of the game but focus on the main part; strategy.

Casual mode, for people who want to enjoy the story and characters to their fullest and to just fool around with different options without having to worry about outcome (ex. marriage). I like casual because it makes it easier to focus on the story and characters, for me at least. I like classic for a similar reason because it makes me feel pressured and to really think about what I"m doing.

I enjoy both classic and casual equally, but these are simply reasons based on my own experience and aren't meant to change anyone's mind. Sometimes I want to play a laid back game and sometimes I want to play a game that makes me feel pressured. Casual and Classic mode allow me to enjoy the game to it's fullest potential, how I want and when I want.

[DeadGame]

i wasn't talking about the part of your post that was about you not caring about casual mode, i was talking about the rest of your post, the part that i quoted :P

mostly what i mean is TRUE FIRE EMBLEM FANS get really bristly when the devs do anything that makes the game more accessible (casual mode) because it's somehow ruining their experience that you don't have to be so hardcore to enjoy the game. it's not just fire emblem fans, ofc (fuck off original xcom fans by now holy shit), and i'm not really picking on you in particular, it's just that your post happened to perfectly exemplify the "ha ha it would be funny if is went back to its roots because fuck casuals" mindset that's literally bad for the series, not just unhealthy overall.

love and aloha dude

I was talking about the casual(-mode) fans that despise the older games for not having it in particular.

No sympathy towards these people from my side. :P

Edited April 23, 2015 by FierceRagnar

[Wayward Alchemist]

I'm fine with Casual, it helps ease new players in, therefore increasing sales, therefore increasing the likelihood of having a release outside of Japan. It's optional, too, so I don't see the big ol' deal with it. Also, maybe weapons don't degrade in casual any more, so that's why it didn't show duribility in the trailers?

[Integrity]

that's a pretty shallow reason to dislike something, but not particularly egregious. hell, i dislike path of radiance basically only because you can't skip animations. :P

anyway, what's the clause that says they have to like the old games too? why can't this be a new era moving forwards?

EDIT: and where does the "old games" stipulation end? i don't even like fe3 and before...

Edited April 23, 2015 by Integrity

[Jagged Jagen]

Ah yes, the whole "ruining the game" from your definition again.

People have fun with grinding.

Those can be casuals.

Or those people that have been veterans for years.

Excuse you, I happened to enjoy casual mode.

I enjoy grinding and screwing around with the game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5_4I3sBh4o

I also enjoy playing no-grind Lunatic.

And the game was DESIGNED to be playable, and punished grinding without purchasing DLC.

There are reasons that have been beaten to death in other threads that are legitimate for disliking the option.

But I FUCKING hate people who suggest taking away an optional part of the game, hiding behind "concern for the series", but only are just upset because they can't feel special anymore for doing it the way "veterans" did.

Your motivation is not legitimate concern for the series being ruined.

There have been other veterans that have shown that, disliked the change, and yet still accept the change.

You don't like the casuals.

That's all.

Hi Shadow,

I respect your argument entirely, in fact I'm quite fond of your youtube channel. If you're willing to read, I'd like to provide some insight into why I'm against casual mode. For many years, I've campaigned to get my friends into the series. It unfortunately became a double edged sword for me in the long run. I don't mind adding things such as tutorials and all to make a game accessible, in fact I have nothing but the deepest respect for features such as Lyn's Story and others. The problem is, my friends got very into the game, and into things I liked (The Cast, the Music, what have you) and the less than positive aspects in my eye (Grinding for the most part). They wanted to build up their streetpass teams and what have you. I understand why they want to do that, again it can be quite enjoyable. But I was in the process of a pure FE style run-through and sent out the same streetpass team every day. I didn't care for the mechanic so I simply sent out an assortment of my best units. I was consistently being told how my units were shit, or I'm playing wrong.

This lead to numerous debates where I found myself more and more longing for the older installments. When I mentioned Fog of War, or the Trinity of Magic or conversed about the old level design and such, I was told that it was bullshit and rightfully should have been changed. I offered my copy of Shadow Dragon, or Rekka, or Sacred STones yet no-one wanted to adopt. I don't have a problem with grinding or casual mode, until it starts spoiling the fanbase. I don't have a problem with these mechanics, but I have people who refuse to even attempt the older games. It's not due to money, or lack of availability. Again, we live in an age of emulation and I have offered my copies.

I don't hate Awakening, in fact, in many regards I'm fond of it. What I don't like is how it has turned people off the older games. In my opinion, others are missing out, and the more I play the older installments, the fonder I grow of them. I think the "Awakening hate" if you will has been blown out of proportion, but it is in some cases hard to be a vocal minority. So we have to become more vocal. I have accepted that Casual mode is a feature. In fact,I don't find it too different from Resetting, just with less challenge. I also acknowledge that grinding has been around for a while now. My only issue is between here, GameFAQs and Reddit as well as offline, I that convincing others to pick up the older games to be a harder challenge then convincing them t pick up the series all those years ago. So I begin to latch on and get attached to features I miss. When I get criticized for playing tactically (No Reclaassing, No Grinding, Etc.) I can't help but feel a sens eof resentment to the other modes.

Again, I don't hate Awakening, it's probably tied with Sacred STones for my second favorite, but I can't help but feel bothered having to be a minority in a community that was once a minority.

[Asoleos]

I was talking about the casual(-mode) fans that despise the older games for not having it in particular.

No sympathy towards these people from my side. :P

That can easily be switched to other side that hates Awakening because it has it. Ultimately it just ends up being two sides yelling at each other, accomplishing nothing. Wouldn't it be better to have positive conversations about the series, with how its good and what can be improved instead of pointless arguing.

[DeadGame]

that's a pretty shallow reason to dislike something, but not particularly egregious. hell, i dislike path of radiance basically only because you can't skip animations. :P

anyway, what's the clause that says they have to like the old games too? why can't this be a new era moving forwards?

EDIT: and where does the "old games" stipulation end? i don't even like fe3 and before...

That's very self-explanatory, actually. It ends with games that don't own a casual mode, meaning the ones up until Shadow Dragon.

Oh, and I've seen people like that. "Nyee, Awakening is the only good FE because my units can't die, every other game in the series sux bawls, nerrrrr, muh waifus."

As I said, it'd be hilarious to see their faces in case Casual-mode doesn't return, heh.

(Reminder that I don't mind Casual-mode returning as long as they keep any markings on the file select screen.)

Edited April 23, 2015 by FierceRagnar

[Crysta]

Keep the range between casual for derps and lunatic+ for masochists.

It's like debating who someone else chooses to sleep with: I give no fucks as long as it doesn't affect my playthrough.

Edited April 23, 2015 by Crysta

[Integrity]

jesus christ strawman much? that literally isn't worth responding to if you think those people are representative of anything, lmao

EDIT: man that's two in a row ninjad

Edited April 23, 2015 by Integrity

[Gradivus.]

if we're being so all for accessibility, it would definitely be good to encourage classic mode just to introduce new players to it. it is likely that cas mode players have the misconception that permadeath makes the game too difficult; the game encouraging them to attempt the mode, regardless of whether they end up liking it or not, is a good course of action in terms of accessibility.

[Asoleos]

if we're being so all for accessibility, it would definitely be good to encourage classic mode just to introduce new players to it. it is likely that cas mode players have the misconception that permadeath makes the game too difficult; the game encouraging them to attempt the mode, regardless of whether they end up liking it or not, is a good course of action in terms of accessibility.

Do you mean like a true ending that is only available in classic mode and is not available in casual mode. If so I would be okay with that, it gives incentive to play classic to get the true ending.

Edited April 23, 2015 by Asoleos

[Dragrath]

It shouldn't have been an option in the first place. Grinding can ruin the game.

hmm grinding can be problematic in the campain however it also gave awakening one of the strongest endgame continuations in the series due to the ability to play around with your units and grind them into opness for the end tier DLC maps.

I'd like it if grinding returned but only after the game was beaten serving as an unlockable reward. Its a much better implementaion than trial maps...

[shadowofchaos]

Please note that I get emotional about this, as most people who know me on this forum know I don't curse very often. So sorry if I come off as a jerk, but...

There's really two stupid groups in the fandom.

1. The casuals who point fingers at the "stupid" veterans who are jerks that hate casuals for liking the "not true fire emblem elements"

2. The veterans who point fingers at the "stupid" casuals who are jerks that hate veterans for liking the "true fire emblem elements" of the older games of the series.

See the similarities?

Both are being vocal at A MINORITY.

The solution would be to not get offended that some people don't want to play casual mode, and some people don't want to play classic mode. THAT IS REALLY IT.

I'd like it if grinding returned but only after the game was beaten serving as an unlockable reward. Its a much better implementaion than trial maps...

I seriously don't like that people don't like giving people THE CHOICE to grind however they want. Nothing prevents you from playing FE the way it was before.

Edited April 23, 2015 by shadowofchaos

[Awakener_]

Will it be hilarious to see their face if casual mode is gone? Maybe.

Will it be hilarious if the new-found fanbase is not buying IF because of it? Not very much.

[shadowofchaos]

Will it be hilarious to see their face if casual mode is gone? Maybe.

Will it be hilarious if the new-found fanbase is not buying IF because of it? Not very much.

It would be hilarious to me if they took our classic to see the look on your faces.

But, honestly THAT would warrant outcry. Unlike what we currently have a thread about.

[Irysa]

Casual mode was a mistake. But given it's already been in two games, it would also be a mistake to remove it now.

I've already made some really exhaustive posts on the subject of why I believe it was a mistake, likely exhaustive to the point of discouraging anyone from even continuing to discuss the topic with me. Heck, I don't think I can be bothered to get bogged down in that specific topic again. I think feplus summed up the previous thread fairly well with this;

This has been a straightforward thread I think. Two main areas of debate:

1. Whether or not Casual Mode is a worse version of Classic Mode.

2. Whether or not the inclusion of an optional, worse mode adversely affects the quality of the game.

Point 2 is where this debate isn't making much traction. No surprise considering how you answer is pretty subjective.

So, leaving that aside, I'll instead examine a somewhat secondary aspect to this argument.

Taking what's essentially a libertarian stance on the whole issue leads to somewhat interesting conclusions. If it doesn't matter to you whether people use Casual Mode it or not, does it not follow that it also doesn't matter to you whether other people even play the game or not? If you don't care whether people play the game or not, then you also can't care whether the game became more accessible, enabling greater numbers of players. The expected counterargument is that "more people playing the game is better", but why is that? Higher chance of encountering people who share an interest? It simply being inherantly better that more people experience the things you like? Both are relatively selfish, idealistic positions.

As such, isn't there some level of hypocrisy in hurling insults at individuals who also have selfish, idealistic positions? "I like the game/communities more without it", "I think it adds integrity", etc, are as petty as "I like the game/communities more with it", "I don't think it compromises integrity". Note that none of these are my arguments so don't misquote me on this.

Edited April 23, 2015 by Irysa

[Asoleos]

It would be hilarious to me if they took our classic to see the look on your faces.

But, honestly THAT would warrant outcry. Unlike what we currently have a thread about.

Considering that it is most likely be in If and it doesn't really hurt the series in any way besides having an option when you press new game.

[Awakener_]

It would be hilarious to me if they took our classic to see the look on your faces.

But, honestly THAT would warrant outcry. Unlike what we currently have a thread about.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Casual here we go!

Honestly which mode got remove and my reaction will be ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. As long as the sales is good and the series continue on, I am happy. I am a casual FE elitist.

Edit: However removing the waifus then it whole another story...

Edited April 23, 2015 by Awakener_

[Florete]

Wow, this blew up fast.

My view on this is the same as always: until we get a Fire Emblem game where perma-death means more than restarting the map, I am a-ok with casual mode. Yeah, the mechanic helped give the series an identity, but it's really never been implemented very well, so why alienate players for it?

I also still think that classic mode should have some sort of extra that isn't available in casual to encourage people to play, because otherwise it only exists for the novelty. Just because it's never been implemented well doesn't mean they shouldn't give it incentive.

[shadowofchaos]

Honestly, I'm fine with people disliking casual... but I'm not with people citing "oh, it made people not want to try older games or classic".

So what? Why are people offended at that?