Return of Casual

[Jedi]

I still think IS appealing to both crowds is the best way to go about it as is. Honestly.

[Moishe Oofnik]

I still think IS appealing to both crowds is the best way to go about it as is. Honestly.

Literally Sums up all I have to say about this topic

[NoirCore]

And that has to do with me.. what? I didn't say anything like that last bit.

Don't tell me you're referring to that "green mark of cowardness" joke I made months ago. Are you serious? Haha.

I know they don't call me FunnyRagnar, but I do make jokes from time to time, you know? And people trying to show off their save file with that mark on it on Miiverse is pretty adorable (which is also the reason why I abolutely want them to keep that).

So, how funny is the "green mark of cowardness" on someone who DOESN'T hate previous games for the lack of casual mode?

I think Casual mode shouldn't need to create any incentive to play Classic mode in the form of limits (especially if the limits are punishments for "playing that way" in the form of having less features other than permadeath). Like I said, Casual mode was created to appeal to casual players, not ONLY as a step towards Classic. And even if there's a little bit of unruly players among them, remember: every fanbase, in the form of loving a game, sport, show, or whatever, will have their rude people, and I'm certain FE had that before Casual mode came in. It's not something that can be avoided, as much as we want it to, so turning a blind eye to a large group of people just because there's some who act unreasonably unlike the rest wouldn't be fair.

[Jedi]

So, how funny is the "green mark of cowardness" on someone who DOESN'T hate previous games for the lack of casual mode?

I think Casual mode shouldn't need to create any incentive to play Classic mode in the form of limits (especially if the limits are punishments for "playing that way" in the form of having less features other than permadeath). Like I said, Casual mode was created to appeal to casual players, not ONLY as a step towards Classic. And even if there's a little bit of unruly players among them, remember: every fanbase, in the form of loving a game, sport, show, or whatever, will have their rude people, and I'm certain FE had that before Casual mode came in. It's not something that can be avoided, as much as we want it to, so turning a blind eye to a large group of people just because there's some who act unreasonably unlike the rest wouldn't be fair.

As an unfortunate whole, we tend to come off as asshole elitists due to our love for a niche series. Some feel entilted now that FE has gotten some more attention that "us" the old guard, need to regulate what we find dumb about IS's choices and how things were and not how they are.

Not saying everyone is like that, we just give that vibe as a whole.

[Ownagepuffs]

If I may counter, I was reffering more to the fact that grinding is actively encouraged in Awakening. I prefer the Arena's risk vs reward system to casual + reward as it provided tension. I will admit that the arena system is far from perfect, as you mentionedit was quite easily exploited. The reason I prefer The Arena to Awakening is that there were no consequences to dying and millions of DLC dedicated to it. This is just my opinion as to why I prefer the Arena to Awakening's system, but all be the first to admit both systems are very, very flawed.

At no point does Awakening encourage grinding. At all.

[Crysta]

Eh, I guess that depends on what you consider "encouraging". I know I speeded through my first playthrough with relatively little (and I started with Normal mode).

My second hard mode playthrough is still wading through SpotPass armies after I visited Anime Expo last year. And I'm going again this year. I think I might finally complete that playthrough by 2020.

But it's my choice.

[Anacybele]

As an unfortunate whole, we tend to come off as asshole elitists due to our love for a niche series. Some feel entilted now that FE has gotten some more attention that "us" the old guard, need to regulate what we find dumb about IS's choices and how things were and not how they are.

Not saying everyone is like that, we just give that vibe as a whole.

I have to agree with this here, though I'm not one of these asshole elitists. I don't mind casual mode as long as it stays optional. I prefer playing FE the classic way with perma-death since it adds challenge and realism and makes me care more about the characters. But if another player doesn't want perma-death and is still interested in FE, I'll let them play FE that way. I don't have a right to tell them how they should play a game.

I do dislike how some Awakening fans refuse to play the older games simply because of the lack of casual mode or something like that.

Edited April 24, 2015 by Anacybele

[omega zero]

At no point does Awakening encourage grinding. At all.

What about from an inexperienced players point of view? I recall people saying that the jump between Hard and Lunatic was a bit much.

[Jagged Jagen]

At no point does Awakening encourage grinding. At all.

In my Opiion, by including EXPonential growth it does. And the StreetPass teams encourage grinding as the AI doesn't do your characters justice.

[Jedi]

In my Opiion, by including EXPonential growth it does. And the StreetPass teams encourage grinding as the AI doesn't do your characters justice.

Not everyone has EXPonential growth or is going to get it though. It's optional

StreetPass is also optional.

[Cysx]

At no point does Awakening encourage grinding. At all.

Well Awakening has risen spawns, reclassing and skills that you'll get from reclassing, getting specific skills to children, dlc that helps with grinding and dlc that requires grinding, renown...

It's rarely in your face, but a lot of the content of this game is built around grinding, way more so than in any previous FE.

[Dandragon]

can i just say this is the same argument for Dark Souls getting an easy mode

THERE IS NO ARGUMENT

it is an OPTION

that you DON'T HAVE to use

and DOESN'T AFFECT YOU

[Irysa]

Eh, word choice. Rather than encouraging or incentivising it (compared to other games), Awakening facilitates grinding more than those other games.

Although there's an argument to be made that the way skills are gained via leveling up encourages it too.

EDIT: Dissapointed to see that so many people are still completely indignant about more options always being net positives. It doesn't affect you either if other people don't play the game because it doesn't have casual mode you know.

Edited April 24, 2015 by Irysa

[Jedi]

Well Awakening has risen spawns, reclassing and skills that you'll get from reclassing, getting specific skills to children, dlc that helps with grinding and dlc that requires grinding, renown...

It's rarely in your face, but a lot of the content of this game is built around grinding, way more so than in any previous FE.

Gaiden and Sacred Stones also have monsters on their maps, as does Tearing Saga. Does this encourage grinding? Possibly, but at the same time, no point of any of these games in question require it. Not even Awakening's L+.

EDIT: Dissapointed to see that so many people are still completely indignant about more options always being net positives. It doesn't affect you either if other people don't play the game because it doesn't have casual mode you know.

It effects the series as a whole. I'd like to see Fire Emblem grow. Not die. As much as I miss Kaga and his mechanics.

Edited April 24, 2015 by Jedi

[Radiant head]

And wow, I haven't heard "dweeb" in a long time.

This made me laugh more than it should have.

But yeah, let people choose what mode they want to play, and leave it at that.

[Vineron]

EDIT: Dissapointed to see that so many people are still completely indignant about more options always being net positives. It doesn't affect you either if other people don't play the game because it doesn't have casual mode you know.

But I'd rather see more people playing the game than not.

Edited April 24, 2015 by Vineron

[NekoKnight]

can i just say this is the same argument for Dark Souls getting an easy mode

Umm, even though I support the inclusion of casual mode, giving Dark Souls an easy mode really would be crossing the line. Dark Souls' brutal difficulty is very much a part of the intended experience and atmosphere.

[Irysa]

Umm, even though I support the inclusion of casual mode, giving Dark Souls an easy mode really would be crossing the line. Dark Souls' brutal difficulty is very much a part of the intended experience and atmosphere.

Although I agree with you, people disagree on this matter, in the exact same way they disagree on permadeath's importance in Fire Emblem.

It effects the series as a whole. I'd like to see Fire Emblem grow. Not die. As much as I miss Kaga and his mechanics.

People who don't like casual mode don't neccessarily want the series to die though. This isn't mutually exclusive.

But I'd rather see more people playing the game than not.

Why?

Edited April 24, 2015 by Irysa

[Cysx]

can i just say this is the same argument for Dark Souls getting an easy mode

Ah, is that a thing? That's bound to create some drama.

Devs adding easier modes in a game that's renowned for its difficulty can mean that their view on their creation has changed quite a bit, which ultimately would be very likely to affect a lot what they make of it in the future. I think as a fan this warrants some worrying. Though, Fire Emblem is past that point already, the only thing left is to see where the series ends up.

Gaiden and Sacred Stones also have monsters on their maps, as does Tearing Saga. Does this encourage grinding? Possibly, but at the same time, no point of any of these games in question require it. Not even Awakening's L+.

I agree, but saying Awakening doesn't encourage grinding at all is wrong to me. The main chapters' structure, yes, the game as a whole, definitely not.

Edited April 24, 2015 by Cysx

[Jedi]

People who don't like casual mode don't neccessarily want the series to die though. This isn't mutually exclusive.

I know, but at this point. It's been more of a boon to the franchise then a negative force. I myself don't really like casual mode that much, but you know what? There are people that do, and it helped the sales. *shrugs*

I agree, but saying Awakening doesn't encourage grinding at all is wrong to me. The main chapters' structure, yes, the game as a whole, definitely not.

I suppose it might give that encouragement, but its not quite as strong as some are putting it.

[Irysa]

I know, but at this point. It's been more of a boon to the franchise then a negative force. I myself don't really like casual mode that much, but you know what? There are people that do, and it helped the sales. *shrugs*

Yeah but there are more ways for it to grow than casual mode. Including some methods you'll probably have a stronger opposition to. Unless you have shares in IS or something. <_<

EDIT: Basically, having preference to it growing in a particular way or remaining stable as opposed to growing isn't like, some completely rephrensible act of gatekeeping or whatever. There's no active system in place to say "you people who don't like permadeath can't play Fire Emblem!", it's people's own preferences that affect whether they play the game or not. I don't believe all preferences have to be catered to, mostly because it's pure folly to try to please everyone. It doesn't affect me as an individual if someone doesn't play the game, in the same way it doesn't affect me if they play on casual mode.

The "it doesn't affect you" argument is bizzare because it's like trying to argue "who cares if rape is legal in some backwater country on the other side of the world, it doesn't affect you!". I mean, technically it doesn't. But that doesn't mean you can't think it's bad for that to be the case?

Edited April 24, 2015 by Irysa

[NekoKnight]

Although I agree with you, people disagree on this matter, in the exact same way they disagree on permadeath's importance in Fire Emblem.

The difficulty of Dark Souls is far more tied to the identity of the game than permadeath is for Fire Emblem. The tagline of the game is "Prepare to Die". It's expected that the game will be difficult and including an easy mode would fly directly in the face of that. I do think permadeath is part of what makes Fire Emblem what it is, which is why I always play classic, but casual mode is hardly contrary to the very spirit of the game. If someone asked you to explain, in one sentence, what is the core of the Fire Emblem experience, would you really say 'permadeath'? I would describe it as gathering a large diversified cast and strategically using different unit types to defeat the enemy.

Edited April 24, 2015 by NekoKnight

[Jedi]

Yeah but there are more ways for it to grow than casual mode. Including some methods you'll probably have a stronger opposition to. Unless you have shares in IS or something. <_<

EDIT: Basically, having preference to it growing in a particular way or remaining stable as opposed to growing isn't like, some completely rephrensible act of gatekeeping or whatever. There's no active system in place to say "you people who don't like permadeath can't play Fire Emblem!", it's people's own preferences that affect whether they play the game or not. I don't believe all preferences have to be catered to, mostly because it's pure folly to try to please everyone. It doesn't affect me as an individual if someone doesn't play the game, in the same way it doesn't affect me if they play on casual mode.

The "it doesn't affect you" argument is bizzare because it's like trying to argue "who cares if rape is legal in some backwater country on the other side of the world, it doesn't affect you!". I mean, technically it doesn't. But that doesn't mean you can't think it's bad for that to be the case?

I'm curious what methods you are thinking of currently, would you mind sharing?

While I agree with it being pure folly to try to appease everyone, it's not like they changed the genre or anything though. They simply added another option to make it more accessible.

And you lost me on trying to compare a video game franchises choices to that of "what if rape is legal in some other country". I think you are taking this a little more seriously then you should be.

[Asoleos]

Yeah but there are more ways for it to grow than casual mode. Including some methods you'll probably have a stronger opposition to. Unless you have shares in IS or something. <_<

EDIT: Basically, having preference to it growing in a particular way or remaining stable as opposed to growing isn't like, some completely rephrensible act of gatekeeping or whatever. There's no active system in place to say "you people who don't like permadeath can't play Fire Emblem!", it's people's own preferences that affect whether they play the game or not. I don't believe all preferences have to be catered to, mostly because it's pure folly to try to please everyone. It doesn't affect me as an individual if someone doesn't play the game, in the same way it doesn't affect me if they play on casual mode.

The "it doesn't affect you" argument is bizzare because it's like trying to argue "who cares if rape is legal in some backwater country on the other side of the world, it doesn't affect you!". I mean, technically it doesn't. But that doesn't mean you can't think it's bad for that to be the case?

Wait so are comparing someone playing casual mode in Fire Emblem, to rape?

Prior to that your statements have been reasonable in regards to why you dislike casual. Still I am having difficulty understanding why you are so against the very idea about this.

[NekoKnight]

The "it doesn't affect you" argument is bizzare because it's like trying to argue "who cares if rape is legal in some backwater country on the other side of the world, it doesn't affect you!". I mean, technically it doesn't. But that doesn't mean you can't think it's bad for that to be the case?

>Equating casual mode to rape

Tee hee