Return of Casual

[Crysta]

I'm not sure why they would take the time to program an entirely different mechanic into the game just to appease a faction of people who probably don't even intend to play it.

But, like, insist on having a problem with other people playing it for some reason.

[Baldrick]

A flat rate is probably fairer, I didn't really think about the possibility to snowball.

The earlier games don't have Casual Mode. So if the new game helps people adjust to Classic, it means they can play more Fire Emblem games. More choice is a good thing, isn't it?

[eclipse]

I like the idea of consequences for Casual death, like skill loss when thrown in jail in Skyrim. Grinding has been abuseable since FE6 and will confirm it's in 11, but never to the level of Awakening. Also, the Arena did cost money and the enemies were usually a little tougher. People abused it by working around it, not as intended. Awakening is full on grinding is cool, do it now *cough* EXPonential Growth

You got money from the arena if you won, and outright died if you didn't (map arenas). The Base Arena in FE12 helped to mitigate bad level-ups by pseudo-fixing how many stats were gained per level, and you could control what weapon you fought with. In FE7, it was hilariously easy to rig a certain portion of the cast such that they're near-invincible in the arena (hello Ninis' Grace). IIRC, FE6 had working supports in the arena, and FE8 had arenas on top of an overworld map where stuff like Boots could be obtained (do NOT get me started on the stuff dropped in the Tower of Valni). FE11's arena system allowed me to save my progress at certain points (ditto FE12).

Yet somehow this is nowhere near as bad as Awakening's grinding, in your opinion.

i really don't care cause i won't be playing on casual anyways, it can return or not, idgaf

I can respect an opinion like this~!

That's very self-explanatory, actually. It ends with games that don't own a casual mode, meaning the ones up until Shadow Dragon.

Oh, and I've seen people like that. "Nyee, Awakening is the only good FE because my units can't die, every other game in the series sux bawls, nerrrrr, muh waifus."

As I said, it'd be hilarious to see their faces in case Casual-mode doesn't return, heh.

Don't fucking stoop to their level? If they don't want to play the older games out of fear, that's their problem, not yours. They're depriving themselves, and it's not your job (or anyone other FE fan's job) to change their mind.

---

I'd be happiest if battle saves were separated from Casual Mode, but that's for another thread. I'm all for the inclusion of it, because it means that I can attempt some pretty stupid strategies that I would otherwise shy away from (like intentional suicides).

[euklyd]

It would be hilarious to me if they took our classic to see the look on your faces.

But, honestly THAT would warrant outcry. Unlike what we currently have a thread about.

tbh it would probably warrant less of an outcry, simply because if I so choose, I can play casual mode exactly like I currently play classic

I don't really have much to say here; I like classic coming back, for both Integ's reasons and also for the sake of my Moral Superiority™, but I definitely respect Irysa's position on the matter as well, and while I have disagreements with him, I'm pretty sure we agree more than disagree, at this point

I actually really liked what (I think Irysa?) suggested in the previous thread as a superior implementation to classic mode, which iirc was essentially permadeath with battle saves - you still have to fix your mistakes, but don't need to replay the entire chapter

(it doesn't let you do cool strategies like sacrifice your units, though)

[Tsunami922]

Do I use casual? Nope.

Do I want casual in? Sure, why not. I think it'd do more harm than good if it were removed.

I'd be happiest if battle saves were separated from Casual Mode,

Also, this. I like battle saves.

[DeadGame]

Don't fucking stoop to their level? If they don't want to play the older games out of fear, that's their problem, not yours. They're depriving themselves, and it's not your job (or anyone other FE fan's job) to change their mind.

(I'm really starting to get sick of people laying words in my mouth on these forums.) What made you think I'm trying to change these dweebs' minds, now?

I just said I'd like so see their butthurt faces, I wouldn't even think of wasting my time changing their minds, haha.

It's like console wars. People fighting over which machine is better, I'm just sitting back with my Nintendo systems and PC, enjoying the show.

Edited April 24, 2015 by FierceRagnar

[Jagged Jagen]

You got money from the arena if you won, and outright died if you didn't (map arenas). The Base Arena in FE12 helped to mitigate bad level-ups by pseudo-fixing how many stats were gained per level, and you could control what weapon you fought with. In FE7, it was hilariously easy to rig a certain portion of the cast such that they're near-invincible in the arena (hello Ninis' Grace). IIRC, FE6 had working supports in the arena, and FE8 had arenas on top of an overworld map where stuff like Boots could be obtained (do NOT get me started on the stuff dropped in the Tower of Valni). FE11's arena system allowed me to save my progress at certain points (ditto FE12).

Yet somehow this is nowhere near as bad as Awakening's grinding, in your opinion.

If I may counter, I was reffering more to the fact that grinding is actively encouraged in Awakening. I prefer the Arena's risk vs reward system to casual + reward as it provided tension. I will admit that the arena system is far from perfect, as you mentionedit was quite easily exploited. The reason I prefer The Arena to Awakening is that there were no consequences to dying and millions of DLC dedicated to it. This is just my opinion as to why I prefer the Arena to Awakening's system, but all be the first to admit both systems are very, very flawed.

[Tryhard]

(I'm really starting to get sick of people laying words in my mouth on these forums.) What made you think I'm trying to change these dweebs' minds, now?

I'd like to see said dweebs because I have never seen the behaviour you have described and I am wondering if it even exists. Edited April 24, 2015 by Tryhard

[NoirCore]

(I'm really starting to get sick of people laying words in my mouth on these forums.) What made you think I'm trying to change these dweebs' minds, now?

I just said I'd like so see their butthurt faces, I wouldn't even think of wasting my time changing their minds, haha.

It's like console wars. People fighting over which machine is better, I'm just sitting back with my Nintendo systems and PC, enjoying the show.

That's a close-minded way of thinking. You want Casual Mode removed just to see angry reactions from casual players? That's just saying you want an optional mode in a video game removed for only your personal amusement outside of it, and I hate that constrictive way of thinking. >_<

And FYI, loving waifus is not a bad thing, as it's simply people having their personal fantasies, and unless they are harassing you with their waifu talk (which would be because of their personality, not casual mode, and I've yet to see you harassed by waifu lovers), you're getting angry over a topic you don't even have to involve yourself with.

Fierceragnar, we are NOT "dweebs", just people who have different opinions, just like the whole FE fanbase. You don't like our acceptable opinions? Well, no fanbase is a hive mind, so sorry.

[DeadGame]

That's a close-minded way of thinking. You want Casual Mode removed just to see angry reactions from casual players? That's just saying you want an optional mode in a video game removed for only your personal amusement outside of it, and I hate that constrictive way of thinking. >_<

And FYI, loving waifus is not a bad thing, as it's simply people having their personal fantasies, and unless they are harassing you with their waifu talk (which would be because of their personality, not casual mode, and I've yet to see you harassed by waifu lovers), you're getting angry over a topic you don't even have to involve yourself with.

Fierceragnar, we are NOT "dweebs", just people who have different opinions, just like the whole FE fanbase. You don't like our acceptable opinions? Well, no fanbase is a hive mind, so sorry.

You. Zip it. :) You're the only close-minded one of us, buddy.

I suggest you read more carefully next time, that way you'd realize that I don't necesserely want them to remove casual mode (I just wouldn't mind it) but simply like the idea of seeing the butthurt faces of the classic-haters.

Also, I was just talking about people that despise the older games, so if you don't consider yourself part of that group, I wasn't talking about you. If you do.. I think we're done talking. :)

(There it is again, by the way. What must one do to not be laid words in the mouth around here? This is how discussions explode.)

[Book of Ereshkigal]

I hate the attitude of making people angry over optional features that can be chosen one way or another, it's needless strife.

[Vascela]

Someone who likes an option setting isn't an "original" hater. The players who like casual don't want classic removed--they want the option for both (because in itself, they want the option).

[Respite&Nepenthe]

I honestly don't understand why it's controversial.

Keep it in to draw players that would not otherwise play, keeping the franchise alive.

Keep it optional, to draw in the die-hard fans, or the n00bs that like a challenge.

Neither choice makes anyone more or less than the other side.

[NoirCore]

You. Zip it. :) You're the only close-minded one of us, buddy.

I suggest you read more carefully next time, that way you'd realize that I don't necesserely want them to remove casual mode (I just wouldn't mind it) but simply like the idea of seeing the butthurt faces of the classic-haters.

Also, I was just talking about people that despise the older games, so if you don't consider yourself part of that group, I wasn't talking about you. If you do.. I think we're done talking. :)

(There it is again, by the way. What must one do to not be laid words in the mouth around here? This is how discussions explode.)

Really? You're telling me to zip it and you're calling me close-minded when you have clicked on and commented in a topic devoted to waifus and husbandos just to complain over people living in their personal fantasies? Plus, you have said before that you want casual mode to punish players for "playing that way", and that you deemed the casual mark at the file select screen (which you want back) as the "green mark of cowardness", saying that it was "pretty funny, hehe". Oh, and you admitted to trolling casual members in the "Difficulty." thread. Did I mention you said FE13 was a "screw you" to "core fans" of the series like it was fact, essentially calling anyone who loves Awakening not a great fan of FE in general (which you have been called out on)?

You have a point about people claiming that earlier FEs suck in quality because of a lack of casual mode is dumb (although I doubt many exist, as I have yet to see some myself). But wanting a mode to punish all casual players (including those NOT of the group you specified) for "playing that way" is close-minded, in the end.

Explain.

Edited April 24, 2015 by DarkGold777

[DRTJR]

Considering I know people who would not have gotten through awakening with out casual mode, I don't mind so long as Classic is still an option. So while personally why I don't like it I see it's utility.

[DeadGame]

Really? You're telling me to zip it and you're calling me close-minded when you have clicked on and commented in a topic devoted to waifus and husbandos just to complain over people living in their personal fantasies? Plus, you have said before that you want casual mode to punish players for "playing that way", and that you deemed the casual mark at the file select screen (which you want back) as the "green mark of cowardness", saying that it was "pretty funny, hehe". Oh, and you admitted to trolling casual members in the "Difficulty." thread. Did I mention you said FE13 was a "screw you" to "core fans" of the series like it was fact, essentially calling anyone who loves Awakening not a great fan of FE in general (which you have been called out on)?

You have a point about people claiming that earlier FEs suck in quality because of a lack of casual mode is dumb (although I doubt many exist, as I have yet to see some myself). But wanting a mode to punish all casual players (including those NOT of the group you specified) for "playing that way" is close-minded, in the end.

Explain.

Don't you worry about my personal opinion on Awakening and the fanbase debating over which unit they'd wanna go on a date with. That's off-topic atm.

About Casual-mode being punishing in a way towards the player, yeah, that's something I'd want to see from it. Whether "incapacitated" units causing the enemies to get tougher, having influence on the story, not being able to see the true ending or basicly any other downside. I believe it'd be a good addition that'd also encourage players to play on classic mode.

Nevertheless, I'm not saying they should remove casual-mode, I do want the game to sell well to the casual masses aswell, afterall. I just wouldn't mind it not being in.

Anyways, I'm gone now.

[Gradivus.]

I see, a classic instance of an elitism accusation being used as a conversation ender, this indeed is such serious business that we must dismiss different opinions. (this addresses DarkGold's post, fyi) Isn't elitism no more than a hyperbolic statement of personal opinion and aren't those who think they need to feel offended by it equally hyperbolic? (Yeah, oversimplified point, but it should make it clear enough) Those make discussions devolve into trading blows with people they disagree with, I think. The ones allegedly being elitists aren't the sole contributors.

Edited April 24, 2015 by Gradivus.

[Sentacotus]

To be honest I never saw why this is an issue. Right from the get go its an option that YOU as the player have to choose. I like classic so that's what I play on the simple inclusion of a entirely optional mode that you have to choose to do doesn't ruin a game. I just hope they keep it as an option in both versions of the game.

[The Geek]

I see, a classic instance of an elitism accusation being used as a conversation ender, this indeed is such serious business that we must dismiss different opinions. (this addresses DarkGold's post, fyi) Isn't elitism no more than a hyperbolic statement of personal opinion and aren't those who think they need to feel offended by it equally hyperbolic? (Yeah, oversimplified point, but it should make it clear enough) Those make discussions devolve into trading blows with people they disagree with, I think. The ones allegedly being elitists aren't the sole contributors.

I think in this case, calling elitism is justified. Preferring classic mode to casual mode and wishing people would try classic mode is not elitism. Looking down on people who play casual and deriding them, though; THAT is elitism.

[Crysta]

I haven't seen any Classic-haters advocating the removal of Classic mode, or suggesting we punish the players who play it for the lulz.

Have I missed something?

And wow, I haven't heard "dweeb" in a long time.

[DeadGame]

I think in this case, calling elitism is justified. Preferring classic mode to casual mode and wishing people would try classic mode is not elitism. Looking down on people who play casual and deriding them, though; THAT is elitism.

And how exactly is that justified now? You're contradicting yourself there.

[lapismaid]

And how exactly is that justified now? You're contradicting yourself there.

There is a big difference between "I sure wish more people would try Classic mode. They might enjoy it!" and "casual scrubs can't handle Classic mode what a bunch of cowards :]", as an example.

Edited April 24, 2015 by Finalinsanity

[DeadGame]

There is a big difference between "I sure wish more people would try Classic mode. They might enjoy it!" and "casual scrubs can't handle Classic mode what a bunch of cowards :]", as an example.

And that has to do with me.. what? I didn't say anything like that last bit.

Don't tell me you're referring to that "green mark of cowardness" joke I made months ago. Are you serious? Haha.

I know they don't call me FunnyRagnar, but I do make jokes from time to time, you know? And people trying to show off their save file with that mark on it on Miiverse is pretty adorable (which is also the reason why I abolutely want them to keep that).

Edited April 24, 2015 by FierceRagnar

[Integrity]

And wow, I haven't heard "dweeb" in a long time.

internet fights are a fascinating place

[omega zero]

This is tricky. On one hand a person might think, intuitively, that people should try to be as dispassionate as possible. On the other hand, this is a game we are talking about so it follows that fun matters, however subjective that may be.

How about this. It is okay to reward long-time and traditional fans of a series. Long-time and traditional fans generally play classic mode (this seems at least intuitively true). Thus, it is okay to reward people who play classic. Newcomers that complete a game on classic can share in these rewards, because they are moving closer to the definition of a traditional player. Why shouldn't there be a reward or bonus for playing on casual? I'd answer that the purpose of casual is not to reward people for trying the series, rather it is meant to be a way of easing them into the series.

I'm sure there are other objections, but I personally don't mind whatever happens to casual mode, so I'll leave it at that. The rewards can be exclusive endgame maps/chronicles/characters/weapons/etc. Maybe even a code to download a special 3DS home menu theme.