Lord Raven Posted October 3, 2015 Author Share Posted October 3, 2015 Flacco's gotten better too and just about everything around him on offense has gotten significantly worse. We won a super bowl with an average receiving corps and have had below average dudes since. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chococoke Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 (edited) Yeah but you guys had Pitta back in 2012. People underestimate how important a TE that can catch the ball and block decently is to an offense. Who was the leading RB for the Ravens that year? I'm too lazy to look it up Edited October 3, 2015 by chococoke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Life Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 Or maybe Newton has just gotten better since then? I don't see why he wouldn't.Newton's hit his ceiling. He can't get better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Raven Posted October 3, 2015 Author Share Posted October 3, 2015 (edited) Yeah but you guys had Pitta back in 2012. People underestimate how important a TE that can catch the ball and block decently is to an offense. Who was the leading RB for the Ravens that year? I'm too lazy to look it upPitta can't block well. We've also not had someone as good as Pitta since 2012. Ray Rice, by the way. It's actually a little revisionist to say something about Pitta being our star TE then. I think we had no idea who the starter was until a few weeks into the season and then we settled with Pitta, but Dickson ended up being the dude that blocks (which could be why his hands are so bad now, idk). It's kinda like Boldin in that sense, where they showed up for the Super Bowl run in incredible fashion, but Boldin was being used as a flanker and not a split end or slot guy like he should be. Pitta was in and out of the starting lineup at points (especially in 2011 but also parts of 2012). It's when we finally put Torrey Smith as a flanker, Jacoby Jones (lol) as a Split End, and Boldin in the slot and sometimes a split end (and Pitta properly starting and playing a Joker role) that we started to click. But again, these four guys I listed (especially Jacoby Jones) aren't particularly amazing as a unit. Above average at best, but they definitely were not as great as some of the receiving corps of some other teams that season. Edited October 3, 2015 by Lord Raven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 Newton's hit his ceiling. He can't get better. Now that's just downright impossible and not true. Anyone can get better at anything when they put their mind to it and work hard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chococoke Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 That's still not a terrible group of skill players. You're correct, they're above average at best, but plenty of teams have made runs with worse at the position. Just look at the Patriots' WR depth chart in 2006 when they lost an absolute shootout in the AFC Championship. The top receiver was fucking wide eyed Reche Caldwell (who also dropped a sure TD while completely uncovered late in that game) The year after that was when Wes Welker and Randy Moss were brought in. The rest is history...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Life Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 Now that's just downright impossible and not true. Anyone can get better at anything when they put their mind to it and work hard. We're not twelve years old anymore. Cam Newton has hit his ceiling. This is the best he will ever be in his career. What, is Luke McCown suddenly going to become the best QB ever because he "puts his mind to it and works hard"? No. Same with Newton. If Newton proves otherwise and actually progresses skill-wise, I'll eat some crow. But he helms a 8-8 team at best and that's the best he can do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Cynthia- Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 We're not twelve years old anymore. Cam Newton has hit his ceiling. This is the best he will ever be in his career. What, is Luke McCown suddenly going to become the best QB ever because he "puts his mind to it and works hard"? No. Same with Newton. If Newton proves otherwise and actually progresses skill-wise, I'll eat some crow. But he helms a 8-8 team at best and that's the best he can do. I thInk the Panthers will finish better than 8-8 this year. Remembering that they're 3-0, let's look at who they have left: @Bucs Bye @Seahawks Eagles Colts Packers @Titans Redskins @Cowboys @Saints Falcons @Giants @Falcons Bucs I guess they could start losing games to crappy teams, but they haven't shown that so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 (edited) We're not twelve years old anymore. Cam Newton has hit his ceiling. This is the best he will ever be in his career. What, is Luke McCown suddenly going to become the best QB ever because he "puts his mind to it and works hard"? No. Same with Newton. If Newton proves otherwise and actually progresses skill-wise, I'll eat some crow. But he helms a 8-8 team at best and that's the best he can do. Then why were the Panthers like 10-6 a couple years ago? And I never said anyone could be the best ever, I said anyone can GET BETTER. There's a difference. And there's a thing called learning speed. Some people won't learn fast enough to be the best. They can still be good if they work for it. Your argument sucks. Edited October 3, 2015 by Anacybele Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Cynthia- Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 Panthers were actually 12-4 two years ago if we want to be specific lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 Helps my argument even more then, great! I couldn't quite remember exactly what their record was. xP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Life Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 (edited) Panthers were 7-8-1 last year. Stop dwelling on the far past and understand that they made the playoffs with a sub .500 record. They are a mediocre team with a bunch of wins under their belt. You want another team who's record is better than what they really are? NYJ. EDIT: Since Newton was drafted, Carolina has had 1 out of 4 seasons where they were over even 7 wins. 6-10, 7-9, 12-4, 7-8-1. Please go on telling me about how Newton hasn't hit his ceiling yet. Edited October 3, 2015 by Life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 (edited) He's still kind of early in his career? The best QBs weren't the best right away, you know. Not saying Newton will become one of the best, but guys like Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, Big Ben, Peyton Manning, they had to grow into the QBs that they are. Or were, in the case of Manning. Also, two years is not the "far past." Edited October 3, 2015 by Anacybele Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Raven Posted October 3, 2015 Author Share Posted October 3, 2015 That's still not a terrible group of skill players. You're correct, they're above average at best, but plenty of teams have made runs with worse at the position. Just look at the Patriots' WR depth chart in 2006 when they lost an absolute shootout in the AFC Championship. The top receiver was fucking wide eyed Reche Caldwell (who also dropped a sure TD while completely uncovered late in that game)Pats offense also wasn't that great then. My point is entirely like... look what we did with an okay group of skill position guys; we've since thrown him to the wolves and he's basically being forced to do a lot of weird shit to just avoid a sack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Life Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 (edited) He's still kind of early in his career? The best QBs weren't the best right away, you know. Not saying Newton will become one of the best, but guys like Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, Big Ben, Peyton Manning, they had to grow into the QBs that they are. Or were, in the case of Manning. Also, two years is not the "far past." Tom Brady's first four seasons: 11-5 (replacing Drew Bledsoe in Game 2), 9-7, 14-2, 14-2. Ben Roethlisburger's first four seasons: 15-1 (replacing Tommy Maddox in Game 4), 11-5, 8-8, 10-6. Peyton Manning's first four seasons: 10-6, 6-10, 10-6, 12-4. Aaron Rodgers' first four seasons: 6-10, 11-5, 10-6, 15-1. There are 2 sub .500 seasons here in the four QBs you mentioned. Which is less than 75% of Cam Newton's career. But facts don't matter when your opinion clearly trumps it, right? EDIT: Also, 2013 is the far past. In 2013, the Bills had a different owner, different staff (aside from God Manager Doug Whaley) and a completely different offense then 2015. They also went 6-10. Is that indicative of what's going to happen this season? Long story short, you're wrong and your opinion is wrong. As proved by facts. Edited October 3, 2015 by Life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Raven Posted October 3, 2015 Author Share Posted October 3, 2015 ... Manning's first four seasons were 3-13, 13-3, 10-6, 6-10 culminating in his coach getting fired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Life Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 (edited) ... Manning's first four seasons were 3-13, 13-3, 10-6, 6-10 culminating in his coach getting fired. Forgot Manning started in '98 and not 2000. Still proves my point for the most part. And Jim Mora was fired over defense, not offense. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oSFYxDGKy8 Edited October 3, 2015 by Life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 Long story short, you're wrong and your opinion is wrong. As proved by facts. Aaron Rodgers didn't start his rookie year though. I heard he didn't actually start until three years later. Peyton had a couple losing seasons in the beginning according to Lord Raven. Tom Brady and Big Ben are rare examples of guys who started out good. I never said that this wasn't possible either. But they still got better too. Ben now is playing his best football of his career and so is Brady. So, I'm not wrong, you actually are, as proved by facts. On another topic, to end this pointless argument, the Steelers are trying out more kickers. I can only hope that there's a diamond in the rough among the scrubs that are left and that the Steelers pick him... Also, Lord Raven, your Ravens have a new receiver too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Raven Posted October 3, 2015 Author Share Posted October 3, 2015 (edited) Forgot Manning started in '98 and not 2000. Still proves my point for the most part. And Jim Mora was fired over defense, not offense.The offense had 38 turnovers that year. (Ranked 27 in that department, the Jets had like 21 for reference and they were ranked 2). Jim Mora was fired because the team generally shit the bed in the playoffs and Mora's past history of never having won an playoff game, but the team was pretty dysfunctional to have him go on that rant. But I mean, Newton was drafted to a team who spent like a bajillion dollars on running backs, although Ana's arguments about wins were pretty ridiculous given that Flacco's were like 11-5, 9-7, 12-4 and 12-4. You're also kidding me when you imply that Brady in his first four years was anything like the Brady of today. Brady was not even a Top 5 quarterback for most of those years; it wasn't until 2007 when he was Top 5 year in and year out. Edited October 3, 2015 by Lord Raven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 I wasn't talking about past wins, I was talking about wins from this season. I never said Cam was always better than Flacco. I said that it looked to me like he surpassed him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Life Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 (edited) Aaron Rodgers didn't start his rookie year though. I heard he didn't actually start until three years later. Peyton had a couple losing seasons in the beginning according to Lord Raven. Tom Brady and Big Ben are rare examples of guys who started out good. I never said that this wasn't possible either. But they still got better too. Ben now is playing his best football of his career and so is Brady. Jesus Christ, you don't listen to reason. You literally picked the top 4 QBs in the league and said that they're examples. How about examples of those who DON'T make it? I've got tons of those. Just look at Buffalo's QBs since Jim Kelly. Here are the ones that the Bills actually drafted. Todd Collins JP Losman (22nd overall) Trent Edwards EJ Manuel (16th overall) That's 4 picks for a single team over a 20 year span including 2 first rounders. They all failed. And I'm just looking at the Bills. Remember Ryan Leaf (who)? How about JaMarcus Russell? Leaf went second overall (1st overall was Peyton Manning that draft). Russell was first overall. Your argument is bad because you singled out the four best QBs over the past 15 years and said "well, they did it, therefore Cam Newton can". Alex Smith was a 1st overall pick. Tim Couch was a 1st overall pick. Hell, David Carr was a 1st overall pick. It means nothing. EDIT: You know what David Carr has that Cam Newton doesn't? A Super Bowl ring. Edited October 3, 2015 by Life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 (edited) Jesus Christ, I should just put you on the ignore list. All you do is try to pick fights with me. I'm not going there. I never even mentioned anything about draft picks. Edited October 3, 2015 by Anacybele Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Life Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 (edited) Jesus Christ, I should just block you. All you do is try to pick fights with me. I'm not going there. I never even mentioned anything about draft picks. I pick fights with your lack of logic and get frustrated when you continue to post wrong information. Rather than you block us, just don't post. Go to the Steelers' forum and post there instead. EDIT: I mentioned draft picks to show you how a lot of top prospect QBs don't make it, never mind the bottom feeders. They are examples of failed players. Cam is not a failed player but he's nowhere near great and he won't ever be great. He'll be adequate as a starting QB and between 2000 and 2015, I would have killed for him to start in Buffalo (that's how bad our QB pool has been since Flutie). But he's not great and this is the best that he can do. Edited October 3, 2015 by Life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 Who said anything about blocking more than one person? And if you think I'm going to leave only because of one member, you don't know me at all. I've left forums because of one or two members before and I look back on it now and find it immature. I won't let others ruin my experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Life Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 Who said anything about blocking more than one person? And if you think I'm going to leave only because of one member, you don't know me at all. I've left forums because of one or two members before and I look back on it now and find it immature. I won't let others ruin my experience. Then stop posting wrong information as fact. Accept the fact that while you like Cam Newton, he's middle of the road and a lot more hyped up than he deserves to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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