Shovel Knight Anonymafia - Game Over

[No Elimination]

sorry bro poe, i legitametly thought polar was gonna flip scum. and i was willing to consolidate on treasure mostly because i didnt have faith anybody else would show up and didnt want an nl.

also r00d specter.

[Prims]

26 hours and 30 minutes left. Edited June 6, 2015 by Prims

[Cú Chulainn]

Tinker claimed being roleblocked N1, but Mole says that King idled. That leaves us a couple of choices:

- Tinker lies

- Mole lies

- Both Mole and Tinker are telling the truth, and the roleblock came from a different source (Propeller's JoaT)

What I think is someone is lying and scum has a roleblock and roleblocked Tinker and it sure wasn't me. Yeah I could be easily lying about what I did but ftr that means I faked my exasperation and lack of motivation the beginning of D1 when I saw that King died, because I was so close to protecting him and then decided to idle just in case. Again I used my peep on Specter N2 because I didn't read that he claimed stump because I'm stupid and I thought he was a likely candidate for the next kill (I vacillated between him and Plague but I assumed scum was going to kill me over the both of them and that didn't happen so whatever). I saw that Specter did not act in the night and that no one targeted him and I have no more role use now.

[Cú Chulainn]

Btw I decided to peep over protect because I wanted to see if I could catch a scum. Remember that if I used my peep on someone that used a role action that night, I don't get who visited them--I just get who that person visited. Which is why I didn't think about using it on King over my protect because if he visited anyone it wouldn't have mattered anyway (although I guess it probably would have cleared up the issue of whether he actually visited anybody N1 or not but whatever).

[Cú Chulainn]

awww the black knight is blocking the path to my stage. how thoughtful

[Cú Chulainn]

it makes sense that King Knight died N1 bc he's like the easiest boss ever. 100% quality game content over here.

[Cú Chulainn]

I'm puzzled as to whether King idling makes any sense, but it's not completely unbelievable if they felt that the risk of fucking with town roles wasn't worth the small possibility of stopping a kill N1.

town idling roleblock N1 is really not that strange btw

[Cú Chulainn]

I'm so stuck honestly because if scum really is hiding a roleblock and lying about it, that means Tinker is likely not scum. But Tinker's content doesn't have me convinced. I really don't know what to do. ;_;

[Estelle]

I can kind of see a Mole/Tinker team focussing on Propeller, but if they are both scum, why would Tinker claim blocked and then Mole say that King idled?

[Cú Chulainn]

well if we're going to take the role shit into account, it's more likely the scumteam is between treasure/mole or treasure/tinker... but it's likely they could have just fucked up too? i don't know

[Cú Chulainn]

gut is telling me probably the former but sigh

I'm curious as to what Specter has to say. I think I'm just gonna hold back for now and actually try to read more and wait and see what he says after he wakes up

[Olivier]

I'm here but fucking bureaucracy shit

[Olivier]

Ok so here's the thing.

Mole has been pushing for Tinker + Treasure or Tinker + Propeller scumteams, so he would've had the perfect opportunity to incriminate Tinker here

So in that case, if King targetted Prims with the block, and a scum member tried to kill Prims and use their role on Manix, the kill would go through but the role action would be blocked? or would both actions be blocked?

to my understanding it blocked both. seems kinda op, but not something im really concerned about the last few days.

If he had claimed that Interfering Roleblocker only stopped the role action but not the kill, he could've argued that Tinker was on the kill N1 and had their role action blocked by King. However, the role makes much more sense the way he claimed it, and it's also believable that King would idle when finding themselves with a safeguard effect that could fuck with town roles.

Post Mortem Tracker would be a pretty hardcore fakeclaim to begin with, but I'm pretty sure his results just prove that's what his role is. I basically don't think Mole is scum based on their role, to be scum they'd have to have 1-shot Post Mortem Track + other more useful 1-shots, and they'd have to be scum with Tinker, whose role would also need to be more complex to make sense as scum. This also includes Mole potentially fucking over their buddy by claiming that King visited nobody when they could easily make up anything else, it's not like anybody else can find out what dead bodies did.

As a reminder, I got a BPV so Tinker's blacksmith part of their role is legit. The bottom line is I don't think Mole!scum is likely.

Ok so second part. Re:Treasure and Tinker don't make sense as scum together. I still think this is the case, but more importantly Treasure claimed to have seen that Tinker had a 1-shot ability and that they already used it. Since they're different alignments that means that the report is true, which proves both Treasure's role and Tinker's. Tinker used their only role action N2, and Treasure couldn't have used a roleblock on Tinker N1 since they proved to have investigated me N1 and Tinker N2.

Tinker!scum isn't completely out of the question, if they actually had several 1-shot inventions to choose from and decided to give me a BPV N2 it would be an optimal way to get towncred out of it without giving town any benefits for it (since the stump claim meant I wouldn't get killed anyways).

However, since roles seem to be somewhat influenced by flavor (I'm undead, so I don't sleep and can still talk after death. Mole is a mole so they can dig up corpses. Polar could shove people away. etc) it would've been easy for the scumteam to figure that out from their PMs and decide that Tinker was a good target for a roleblock, since they would likely be an inventor-type role and they outright refused to claim D1, meaning they probably had a good role that they didn't want to claim. The claim that his BPV resolves last also sounds legit.

I'm leaning towards the latter with Tinker!town, but I'm not ruling him out completely. He could be scum with Mole (don't think it's likely) or with Propeller. If scum with Propeller it'd be kind of weird since Propeller seems to have a good grasp of who I am and Tinker showed the complete opposite.

Treasure can't be scum with Tinker and doesn't make any sense as scum with Mole either. The only one they could be scum with is Propeller.

That leaves: Mole + Tinker, Propeller + Tinker, Propeller + Treasure.

Rolewise neither of Mole and Tinker make sense as scum, their roles would be elaborate fakes with zero scum utility. If we consider the possibility that Tinker could've had more inventions to choose what to use their 1-shot on like Propeller I still wouldn't really see Mole + Tinker based on Mole's role and what I talked about before.

I'm leaning towards Propeller + Treasure. Treasure's role has no utility for town outside of calling out obvious fakeclaims, which shouldn't be happening anyways since this is a Prims game and mafia are bound to have decent fakes. It does work as a gimped rolecop variant for scum though, and I still feel like their snoop on me is a more likely choice coming from scum than town.

Propeller's role is ultimately unproven because any scumteam paying attention to the game would've figured out that I wouldn't be targetted by anybody or be targetting anybody, since I had an inactive role and was giving instructions to the other two players with active roles.

I didn't give instructions to Tinker though. I overlooked that small detail up until now and Propeller claimed to see nobody targetting me when using their watch, even though I actually got a BPV from Tinker.

Reminder that Propeller claimed that this is what their peep does: "this watches a person if they don't act that night, but if they do act it tracks them instead"

So naturally since I didn't act they should've seen Tinker targetting me. I know Tinker isn't lying because I got the BPV, so yeah.

Ultimately would lynch Propeller today. Sorry about the wall. I'll wait for a bit before yolovoting just in case but while I wasn't very confident in my reads before I'm heavily certain of them right now.

And sorry Propeller you were doing well and would've gotten away with it if role stuff hadn't unstuck my head from underground where I'd look at everything else as long as I didn't have to reevaluate an iffy townread.

[Olivier]

Sorry for the format. I tried to think of ways to reorganize it but everything pretty much just ties together so there aren't really any individual parts to highlight and separate.

[Olivier]

I also feel like I played terrible and I apologize to people for that, specially if I also fuck up LyLo.

Apologies to the second Black Knight and second Polar Knight in particular 'cause they replaced into shitty situations

[Rain Nijika]

FINALLY, MY NET CAME BACK!!!!!

now let's hope it stays

what are you even trying to say here? you once didn't trust someone you were townreading, does that mean you and everyone else only trust your scumreads?

no, I was simply meaning that town reading a person does not mean said person's reads are accurate and way someone is reading you can be used to determine intent for making the read, which can be used to scum hunt.

I actually agree with you on Tinker; him townreading me and then turning around and going "but Propeller didn't die so is likely scum with Treasure" is really suspect and it feels planned, which is what I was trying to get at in my previous posts. I also don't get "Treasure and Propeller haven't really had any conversations" because that really isn't true either, and I was 100% willing to get Treasure lynched until right at the end of D2 yesterday when his reactions started changing my mind. I don't get the thought process here and it also doesn't help that he BPVed the stump claim (even though I know their internet died and they probably weren't able to read that and something similar happened to me so I can't really judge on that part but again it doesn't help because this means I can't get much of a read out of their role use /: ).

And why are both Mole and Tinker 100% certain Specter is town? Like I know I think Specter is town and haven't explained why I think so because I feel like it would take too much time (and part of it involves meta which I really don't want to bring up bc there's been too much meta in thos game), but I can explain why I think so. Mole and Tinker just seem to assume it without ANY doubt without even explaining why though.

no, my point basically was, the number of people mafia reading you were non-existent, while there were a few people who thought Plague Knight was mafia. Specter Knight also has almost no one mafia reading him, but, as I mentioned earlier, I did not expect him to die, because he is a major force that wants the scummiest guy lynched and that actually puts more incentive to keep him alive than removing him. So, you being alive does not add up to my calculations, over Plague that is, if you are town.

I actually made a post as to why I think Specter Knight is town and also, if he is not town, I willing to accept mafia deserved to win the game and therefore won the game.

Tinker, what's your read on Mole and why? You apparently read the whole game but jumped right into scumpairs instead of updating your outdated reads in #601. Has your Treasure read changed?

because nothing really made me change my mind based on what happened. I thought I made it obvious I was still scum reading Treasure Knight. I would say the only thing that was odd was from the catch up was

your point you bring up is valid but i still see it as scum that rushed to prevent their lynch. did polar even explain WHY they did that? even if it's town trying to prevent a mislynch on them i really wish they explained why they didn't just offer themself as an info lynch... and if black/polar were town/scum wagons it makes more sense to do that, doesn't it?

i know this is really speccy but i just don't like this.

this is quite bad because no townie should ever offer themselves up as a mislynch, unless all mafia members are dead and more than half the game is filled with confirmed townies. Considering the scenario of end of D1, where we do not know Polar Knight's and Black Knight's alignment, if Polar Knight is town, he should obviously try to save the confirmed townie, which being himself. So, it does not point toward his alignment.

actually whoops this was a really shitty point to make, i know this is an antitown move to make in itself

but what i meant to ask was how does it benefit town to use your role in that way if you're the #1 scumread at the time? doesn't it just stagnate the game?

I am the #1 scum read at the moment and if I had Polar Knight's role at the moment, I know I would use it to save my own skin, because lying down and getting lynched never solves anything, unless you are scum and the situation is hopeless for your team. What I mean is, using it a protection to save yourself from an angry mob is not all that scummy a move.

regarding #624

I am not being defensive yet, if I were, I would use my best card to explain why I am town.

they idled. and i dont think i can describe it better. basically if somebody targetted his target they couldn't perform any other action that night,

if King Knight's role works that way, there is no way it could have been on Specter Knight, because, if he was on Specter Knight, Treasure Knight's role should have failed too. So, it makes most sense that he did idle

okay, why the heck am I even making a post, if you have already figured out the mafia team??

note: I totally did not understand Propeller Knight's snoop claim and the way he kept saying protect, I thought Propeller Knight was protecting Specter Knight

I hope you do not mind me placing my vote on Propeller Knight, because I am very worried about my net connection,

Vote: Propeller Knight

[Rain Nijika]

screwed up the vote

##Vote: Propeller Knight

[Olivier]

because nothing really made me change my mind based on what happened. I thought I made it obvious I was still scum reading Treasure Knight. I would say the only thing that was odd was from the catch up was

was what???

Haven't finished reading.

[Olivier]

regarding #624

I am not being defensive yet, if I were, I would use my best card to explain why I am town.

And what would that be?

I'm probably too late but oh well

[Rain Nijika]

nah, it seems my net is going off and on, so, I just got in after a sudden on

my role is basically a doctor and the reason I didn't want to claim was to not get hooked on D1, which is why I refused to claim

as for why I should be town, it is cause my role can give anyone a 1-shot BPV. If I were mafia, my play should have been to town read my mafia buddy since D1, give the BPV to him N1 and shoot him N2. This way, even though there would be 6 players remaining, both me and my buddy would be cleared and any lynch would guarantee my victory. And if you wanna bring in the fact that my role failed on N1, since no one knew my role would only activate on the night after, I could have easily given my BPV to my buddy N2 and "no kill" claiming I protected my buddy. Treasure would still see I don't have my item and therefore, we would be cleared.

And the fact that my role is useless as mafia, but no point in going there, since this is a Prims game.

[Olivier]

That's more of a high risk, high reward plan, whereas giving me the BPV would be no risk, low reward

I don't necessarily disagree though.

[Rain Nijika]

I would say I would need to take risks if I were mafia, cause I am more or less the most scum read person here, but yeah, you have a point.

[Olivier]

What about the other question though? You never finished that paragraph.

[Rain Nijika]

I do not know what you mean though, because I do not think I missed saying anything

[Olivier]

Look at the quote in post #667