Does it bother anybody else that Male!Kamui is getting much more coverage?

[Wayward Alchemist]

If everybody would stop thinking about it as Male Kamui, and more as Default Kamui, life would be soooooo much easier.

[Dark Holy Elf]

I don't think that would really change much? Sure, I can think of the most commonly showed Kamui as the "default", but that inevitably leads to a "well, of course he's male. Again" and a slightly disappointed shake of the head. (While the people who already don't care about this, still won't.)

[Wayward Alchemist]

I don't think that would really change much? Sure, I can think of the most commonly showed Kamui as the "default", but that inevitably leads to a "well, of course he's male. Again" and a slightly disappointed shake of the head. (While the people who already don't care about this, still won't.)

I knew someone would bring that up. I guess it's because it's always been that way, across most RPGs, and people would find it weird if Female was Default. I don't remember anyone complaining that the Dovahkiin in most of the Skyrim promos was a Male. I guess I just don't get why people are so upset that they are using Male (Default) Kamui in the screenshots, especially when we've had 40 years of RPGs behind us. Seriously. It's the difference of a press of the D-Pad.

Edited May 22, 2015 by JothTheConqueror

[JoeyW001]

wowwwwwwww

for the past years, i've just been lurking around as a unregistered viewer.. cant believe this is the topic that actually prompt me to register.

Does it bother me. No

Does it bother me if female Kamui gets more "press". No
Does FE's gender based class's bother you? Serious question.

Equality is the underlining topic here right? IMO, you are indirectly causing a reverse effect here by victimizing yourself. "Its not fair, abc is getting more exposure then xyz in which i can relate to/have a preference to" Gameplay and story in FE:IF will be 99% the same, the 1%? sprite changes and text swaps that identifies a gender.

I can see the frustration if the developers in IS deliberately programmed the male Kamui to have better growth specs and the only male characters have access to the best weapons in game. But this is clearly not the case, OP is literally causing themselves their so called "annoyance" @ other registered members for not seeing his/her point of view!!

I'm all for constructive opinions and arguments, but this is clearly not it. This is a simple case of a toddler saying "I don't like this because it's not how i prefer it"

JothTheConqueror couldnt put it more simplier

Seriously. It's the difference of a press of the D-Pad

Edited May 22, 2015 by JoeyW001

[Kamui-of-Nohr]

wowwwwwwww

for the past years, i've just been lurking around as a unregistered viewer.. cant believe this is the topic that actually prompt me to register.

Does it bother me. No

Does it bother me if female Kamui gets more "press". No

Does FE's gender based class's bother you? Serious question.

Equality is the underlining topic here right? IMO, you are indirectly causing a reverse effect here by victimizing yourself. "Its not fair, abc is getting more exposure then xyz in which i can relate to/have a preference to" Gameplay and story in FE:IF will be 99% the same, the 1%? sprite changes and text swaps that identifies a gender.

I can see the frustration if the developers in IS deliberately programmed the male Kamui to have better growth specs and the only male characters have access to the best weapons in game. But this is clearly not the case, OP is literally causing themselves their so called "annoyance" @ other registered members for not seeing his/her point of view!!

I'm all for constructive opinions and arguments, but this is clearly not it. This is a simple case of a toddler saying "I don't like this because it's not how i prefer it"

JothTheConqueror couldnt put it more simplier

And this is a simple case of someone who is rude and ignorant who needs to learn their shit before insulting others. How do I post my opinions on here! I never said I was annoyed with the other members. I was annoyed with Kamui.

If you honestly can't understand the problem, I won't even bother wasting my time debating with an ignorant, close-minded person.

It seems like my ignore list will come in handy for this topic after all.

You're not making a good first impression by being an arrogant jerk.

Edited May 22, 2015 by Kamui-of-Nohr

[Dark Holy Elf]

I'm all for constructive opinions and arguments, but this is clearly not it. This is a simple case of a toddler saying "I don't like this because it's not how i prefer it"

You are clearly not understanding the arguments of those who are annoyed by this if that's your takeaway from this thread.

In a vacuum, this decision is not a problem. It is, however, part of a broad pattern which is problematic, in which female avatar characters and the female players who primarily choose to play as them are consistently treated as second-class, afterthought options (if they even exist).

[IGdood]

A good FE would include Female Lord with Female sub-protagonist.

Frozen-style.

How many people would complain?

10/10 will buy this and all subsequent DLC

[Sardonic]

Yeah, Persona 4 has a male PC only. The original P3 was male only as well and the female PC was only added in for P3P. I mean, I get that it takes more work to develop the game with the change in social links and whatnot, but it feels like it was just a one-time experiment what with P4/P4G being male PC only and P5 looking to be the same.

The problem with thinking about the "default" being male is that it further implies the male is the "canon" one and the female is just a secondary throwaway option. I mean, yeah, I typically accept that the male is canon in RPGs with gender choice since that's what developers seem to have had in mind, but it doesn't mean it's not disappointing that the female PC has never been considered the "default" choice before.

[Thane]

wowwwwwwww

for the past years, i've just been lurking around as a unregistered viewer.. cant believe this is the topic that actually prompt me to register.

Does it bother me. No

Does it bother me if female Kamui gets more "press". No

Does FE's gender based class's bother you? Serious question.

Equality is the underlining topic here right? IMO, you are indirectly causing a reverse effect here by victimizing yourself. "Its not fair, abc is getting more exposure then xyz in which i can relate to/have a preference to" Gameplay and story in FE:IF will be 99% the same, the 1%? sprite changes and text swaps that identifies a gender.

I can see the frustration if the developers in IS deliberately programmed the male Kamui to have better growth specs and the only male characters have access to the best weapons in game. But this is clearly not the case, OP is literally causing themselves their so called "annoyance" @ other registered members for not seeing his/her point of view!!

I'm all for constructive opinions and arguments, but this is clearly not it. This is a simple case of a toddler saying "I don't like this because it's not how i prefer it"

JothTheConqueror couldnt put it more simplier

Perhaps you should have remained unregistered if you do not even take the time or effort to understand where people are coming from.

Also, your arguments make very little sense: "I don't like this because it's not how i prefer it"...well, yes. That's how opinions and preferences tend to work.

Yeah, Persona 4 has a male PC only. The original P3 was male only as well and the female PC was only added in for P3P. I mean, I get that it takes more work to develop the game with the change in social links and whatnot, but it feels like it was just a one-time experiment what with P4/P4G being male PC only and P5 looking to be the same.

The problem with thinking about the "default" being male is that it further implies the male is the "canon" one and the female is just a secondary throwaway option. I mean, yeah, I typically accept that the male is canon in RPGs with gender choice since that's what developers seem to have had in mind, but it doesn't mean it's not disappointing that the female PC has never been considered the "default" choice before.

Indeed, it is strange considering the popularity, and the majority of the social links wouldn't even need to be changed drastically. I still wonder why they flat out stated Minako is non-canon, too, considering not only is Theodore apparently canon, but the Shin Megami Tensei series have dealt with multiverses before, if memory serves.

[Swirl-Theory]

Pretty late into the discussion here, but I'm really glad someone else feels the same way. Like I saw someone else in this mention, I'm afraid that they'll make this game with the male protagonist in mind. I mean, if they give you the option to be a girl in the game, why not make the game with both genders in mind?

Now, I know this will probably never happen, but I'd like for this game to have different scenarios based on whether you are a guy or girl, or at the very least, have characters react differently depending on your gender. Having cold characters be nicer to the FeMC and whatnot.

Is it too much to ask for the characters to acknowledge that I'm not some big, burly, man preoccupied with fighting all of the time?! I want to be protected like the other girls in the game too!

[Carter]

Basically, this whole topic has been about being "annoyed" about how Male Kamui is getting more coverage, no more than that. No one is "making a mountain out of a molehill" (gosh that sounds soooooo dumb). but clearly it was a big enough problem to spark an entire thread and 10 pages of discussion about it

At least it looks like they'll be getting equal treatment, gameplay-wise!

[Thane]

Pretty late into the discussion here, but I'm really glad someone else feels the same way. Like I saw someone else in this mention, I'm afraid that they'll make this game with the male protagonist in mind. I mean, if they give you the option to be a girl in the game, why not make the game with both genders in mind?

Now, I know this will probably never happen, but I'd like for this game to have different scenarios based on whether you are a guy or girl, or at the very least, have characters react differently depending on your gender. Having cold characters be nicer to the FeMC and whatnot.

Is it too much to ask for the characters to acknowledge that I'm not some big, burly, man preoccupied with fighting all of the time?! I want to be protected like the other girls in the game too!

You should consider playing through Persona 3: Portable, if that's what you want. A pretty darn good game overall, and I believe most people would agree when I say the female route is better.

You do have to put up with some of the worst villains in video game history, but that's a debate for another time.

As for those claiming we're making a mountain out of a molehill, I'd like to see whose argument specifically you're referring to, since I believe most people here have been quite reasonable.

[Carter]

As for those claiming we're making a mountain out of a molehill, I'd like to see whose argument specifically you're referring to, since I believe most people here have been quite reasonable.

yes me too! catch them varmints red-handed!!!

[Florete]

You do realize that in order to treat them equally, the ones in charge of the pictures would have to actually plan how to distribute pictures equally, which is something they don't do, or think about. It's just something that happened naturally.

That's the problem. That's why I called it "subconscious sexism" earlier. It's not intentional, but it is what it is. Why do you think I linked you to the page about Male Privilege?

If's the job of the marketers to do their damn job properly. They are supposed to consider these things. And if they did consider it and things still ended up like this, well, it's not even subconscious anymore, it's just natural ole sexism.

I spoke about this earlier. You can't claim it is sexism as long as there are other answers to the problem.

Yes. Yes, I can.

2013 was a good time. People didn't complain about being offended as much back then.

I miss the days when people just played video games. :(

You must not have been on the internet in 2013.

Yeah, I mean Mass Effect 3 was released 2012.

If you really hate that people are offended, you are barking at the wrong tree here. The only people here acting offended so far are those who attack the very idea that people talk about this topic at all...

Well, and of course me who is above all else offended by people being butthurt about other people harmlessly discussing a topic.

There has never been a time were people completely uncritically consumed media that they paid like 50 for, not counting all the related costs. And that's generally a good thing, given some of the bullshit that companies often pull. Like Sony installing actual malware on the PCs of their customers for example. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_BMG_copy_protection_rootkit_scandal

And remember what EA did with the most recent Sim City? Or Konami recently making P.T completely unavailable? Or the entire XBox One always online nonsense? Which actually was 2013, btw.

And man, If I think about all the problems I had with the Copy Protection systems of perfectly legally owned game copies, I could tell stories about that. Countless hours of my life wasted by companies who take their customers for granted. As if I lengthy installation procedures, hardware compatibility issues, CD-keys, software conflicts and expensive hardware among other things weren't enough to deal with already.

I do not long for the day were paying customers will just silently take everything that game companies do.

^Also this. Never thought I'd agree with a post from BrightBow (one in this area of the forum, anyway) so much.

Basically, this whole topic has been about being "annoyed" about how Male Kamui is getting more coverage, no more than that. No one is "making a mountain out of a molehill" (gosh that sounds soooooo dumb). but clearly it was a big enough problem to spark an entire thread and 10 pages of discussion about it

At least it looks like they'll be getting equal treatment, gameplay-wise!

Some people just can't tolerate others having an issue with something.

[JoeyW001]

sigh... the problem here is you're turning a blind eye of other's responses while trying to validate what your pointing out here. Let's take a quick look,,,

Who cares? Myself and and a few others obviously do!? What kind of question is that? And yes, it does matter believe it or not. I'm sensing some ignorance here.

For myself? Not really. For most people? Yes. People would start asking if the female protagonist is canon, plenty would wonder, ask, and even complain how Male!Kamui is barely shown, and etc... It would change on how most people see the game(s).

The apathy in this thread is just what I expected.

This is a good example of your "annoyance" of other members. All members here are are voicing their opinions to the topic at hand which you have started. In which you perceived as ill fitting to the message you are bringing to the table. Sensing ignorance and the apathy in this thread? This thread, is nothing but a message board that does not interact with the topic at hand. You directed that to the community who responded.

Who said it was? Oh that's right. You. Being annoyed isn't a big deal. Honestly, it seems you guys are making a bigger deal out of this than the ones who are acutally annoyed ironically.



They are not "equal" nor will they ever be. For God sakes, in that scene where that Hoshidan lady is talking, you could clearly see Male!Kamui's model.

This is why you started the topic, community gave back. accept their different opinions

No. They're not equal. I can not grasp the mindset of someone who can think they're "equal"

You shouldn't be using such as ignorant if this is what you truly feel.

Yes, being annoyed by something you don't give a fuck about automatically makes someone a SJW. How nice to know.

nice touch

And this is a simple case of someone who is rude and ignorant who needs to learn their shit before insulting others. How do I post my opinions on here! I never said I was annoyed with the other members. I was annoyed with Kamui.

If you honestly can't understand the problem, I won't even bother wasting my time debating with an ignorant, close-minded person.

It seems like my ignore list will come in handy for this topic after all.

You're not making a good first impression by being an arrogant jerk.

Nice ninja edit there.. granted i was the first who called you a toddler. That's all on me, but calling me a 12yearold who needs to know his place? that's fantastic!

Your constant avoidance to accept different opinions (like Rapier's) reeks of exact definition of the verbiage you are using.

Perhaps you should have remained unregistered if you do not even take the time or effort to understand where people are coming from.

Also, your arguments make very little sense: "I don't like this because it's not how i prefer it"...well, yes. That's how opinions and preferences tend to work.

Fair enough. "I don't like this because its now how i envisioned IS should market this game". I don't see any argument?

Opinions, why yes! i have lots of opinions. This entire post was my opinion! that's what forums are for, its the self entitlement of correctness is the problem i have with user Kamui-of-Nohr i have a problem with.

State, accept, discuss with reasoning is what this should be.

Edited May 22, 2015 by JoeyW001

[Thane]

Fair enough. "I don't like this because its now how i envisioned IS should market this game". I don't see any argument?

Opinions, why yes! i have lots of opinions. This entire post was my opinion! that's what forums are for, its the self entitlement of correctness is the problem i have with user Kamui-of-Nohr i have a problem with.

State, accept, discuss with reasoning is what this should be.

wowwwwwwww

for the past years, i've just been lurking around as a unregistered viewer.. cant believe this is the topic that actually prompt me to register.

Does it bother me. No

Does it bother me if female Kamui gets more "press". No

Does FE's gender based class's bother you? Serious question.

Equality is the underlining topic here right? IMO, you are indirectly causing a reverse effect here by victimizing yourself. "Its not fair, abc is getting more exposure then xyz in which i can relate to/have a preference to" Gameplay and story in FE:IF will be 99% the same, the 1%? sprite changes and text swaps that identifies a gender.

I can see the frustration if the developers in IS deliberately programmed the male Kamui to have better growth specs and the only male characters have access to the best weapons in game. But this is clearly not the case, OP is literally causing themselves their so called "annoyance" @ other registered members for not seeing his/her point of view!!

I'm all for constructive opinions and arguments, but this is clearly not it. This is a simple case of a toddler saying "I don't like this because it's not how i prefer it"

JothTheConqueror couldnt put it more simplier

Indeed, this is a forum, and ideas, opinions and what have you should be discussed here. However, you must also realize that the reason why people don't like your post is because you come across as incredibly overbearing, patronizing, generalizing and overall childish. For instance, you start by typing "wowwwwwwww", and then you explain that this was just so messed up that you had to create an account after years of lurking to set things straight. And then you think we "victimize" ourselves because we get annoyed.

That's not how a discussion at a forum should be, nor do your so-called arguments make much sense. I victimize myself because I want to see members of the other sex represented well in the video game industry?

[Tamanoir]

Basically, this whole topic has been about being "annoyed" about how Male Kamui is getting more coverage, no more than that. No one is "making a mountain out of a molehill" (gosh that sounds soooooo dumb). but clearly it was a big enough problem to spark an entire thread and 10 pages of discussion about it

At least it looks like they'll be getting equal treatment, gameplay-wise!

I agree.

I'm really surprised there was such strong reactions towards this topic.

sigh... the problem here is you're turning a blind eye of other's responses while trying to validate what your pointing out here. Let's take a quick look,,,

This is a good example of your "annoyance" of other members. All members here are are voicing their opinions to the topic at hand which you have started. In which you perceived as ill fitting to the message you are bringing to the table. Sensing ignorance and the apathy in this thread? This thread, is nothing but a message board that does not interact with the topic at hand. You directed that to the community who responded.

This is why you started the topic, community gave back. accept their different opinions

You shouldn't be using such as ignorant if this is what you truly feel.

nice touch

Nice ninja edit there.. granted i was the first who called you a toddler. That's all on me, but calling me a 12yearold who needs to know his place? that's fantastic!

Your constant avoidance to accept different opinions (like Rapier's) reeks of exact definition of the verbiage you are using.

Fair enough. "I don't like this because its now how i envisioned IS should market this game". I don't see any argument?

Opinions, why yes! i have lots of opinions. This entire post was my opinion! that's what forums are for, its the self entitlement of correctness is the problem i have with user Kamui-of-Nohr i have a problem with.

State, accept, discuss with reasoning is what this should be.

But you still think that Kamui-of-Nohr is wrong to take this so seriously/emotionally, while it matters enuogh to you to register specifically to reacts to them...

If you don't care... Don't post lengthy posts about how much you don't care and no one should care.

That... doesn't makes sense.

There's a difference between not caring/not thinking it's that important (and that's.. fine. No one is forcing you to change your opinions.) and attacking everyone who care about it, saying there are just delusionnal kids.

If you think you must aggress everyone mentioning the subject, the issue is with you, not them.

There's ways to express your opinions without attacking the others.

If you express your opinions without being a jerk and negating completely the others' feelings, your message will pass far better.

Edited May 22, 2015 by Tamanoir

[Carter]

I'm really surprised there was such strong reactions towards this topic.

If you don't care... Don't post lengthy posts about how much you don't care and no one should care.

That... doesn't makes sense.

There's a difference between not caring/not thinking it's that important (and that's.. fine. No one is forcing you to change your opinions.) and attacking everyone who care about it, saying there are just delusionnal kids.

If you think you must aggress everyone mentioning the subject, the issue is with you, not them.

There's ways to express your opinions without attacking the others.

If you express your opinions without being a jerk and negating completely the others' feelings, your message will pass far better.

Hmm? What's with that attitude? What exactly did I do wrong?

I posted meaningful posts a few pages back, I'm only here now to recap. How was I being a jerk? How was I negating others' feelings? How was I attacking others?

I did absolutely NONE of the things you are accusing me of. If anything, you're the one attacking me.

Edited May 22, 2015 by Carter

[Irysa]

I think the reason some people have gotten so pissed off about the premise of this thread is that they believe there is a strong tendancy for such complaints to be made no matter what. Rather, there's no pleasing some people when it comes to this subject of representation. Which sparks bitterness towards any complaints whatsoever.

Bear in mind I'm not trying to imply this is true in this case, but as far as a stereotype goes, it's not uncommon.

Edited May 22, 2015 by Irysa

[charlie_]

Female Kamui is probably going to show up more often when the Nohr route gets more coverage, based on the box-arts. If I'm wrong about this then whatever; it means that one of the Kamuis would have to get the shaft and I kind of suspect that others wouldn't care too if F!Kamui was the one in the spotlight.

[Kamui-of-Nohr]

sigh... the problem here is you're turning a blind eye of other's responses while trying to validate what your pointing out here. Let's take a quick look,,,

This is a good example of your "annoyance" of other members. All members here are are voicing their opinions to the topic at hand which you have started. In which you perceived as ill fitting to the message you are bringing to the table. Sensing ignorance and the apathy in this thread? This thread, is nothing but a message board that does not interact with the topic at hand. You directed that to the community who responded.

This is why you started the topic, community gave back. accept their different opinions

You shouldn't be using such as ignorant if this is what you truly feel.

nice touch

Nice ninja edit there.. granted i was the first who called you a toddler. That's all on me, but calling me a 12yearold who needs to know his place? that's fantastic!

Your constant avoidance to accept different opinions (like Rapier's) reeks of exact definition of the verbiage you are using.

Fair enough. "I don't like this because its now how i envisioned IS should market this game". I don't see any argument?

Opinions, why yes! i have lots of opinions. This entire post was my opinion! that's what forums are for, its the self entitlement of correctness is the problem i have with user Kamui-of-Nohr i have a problem with.

State, accept, discuss with reasoning is what this should be.

Yep!

And did I say no one else can have opinions different from mine? No. As others said, you do not make an effort to understand our view. If I "avoided" Rapiers opinion, why would I bother to respond to it like how I'm responding to your posts? At least he tries to make an effort to understand a different viewpoint from his unlike yourself.

What's childish is your behavior. You specifically registered a account just to respond to a topic that wasn't even that big of a deal. How does it feel to knowing you're the one making this unnecessary drama?

I'm beginning to think this person is either an alt of someone else or a sign up troll.

Edited May 23, 2015 by Kamui-of-Nohr

[Carter]

hold on brb burrying my head bc of complete stupidity

EDIT :::I APOLOGIZE AND AM NEVER COMING BACK CAUSE IM ENAFRASED THANK YOU FOR YOUR TJME TAMANOIR

UMM SO YEAH DARN IM SO DUMB

JUST KINDA HATING MYSELF ATM LETS BE FRIENDS MY MISTAKE Omfg how could I be so dumb UGHHHHHHH

OMG ugh wtf is happening I don't feel good. HELP

Wtfwtfwtfwtdwrf I need to leave but o keep editing my post WHYWHYWHYHEHY

hold on brb burrying my head bc of complete stupidity

EDIT :::I APOLOGIZE AND AM NEVER COMING BACK CAUSE IM ENAFRASED THANK YOU FOR YOUR TJME TAMANOIR

UMM SO YEAH DARN IM SO DUMB

JUST KINDA HATING MYSELF ATM LETS BE FRIENDS MY MISTAKE Omfg how could I be so dumb UGHHHHHHH

OMG ugh wtf is happening I don't feel good. HELP

Wtfwtfwtfwtdwrf I need to leave but o keep editing my post WHYWHYWHYHEHY

I TOUGHT BEIJF HERE FOR AT LEAST one YEAR WOULD MAKE ME SXPERIENCED DARN WTF IM SO DUMB UGHUGHUGH WHY WHYWYH WHY WHY

can someone like ban me for 1 hour

Edited May 22, 2015 by Carter

[Vitezen]

I'm just surprised people haven't realized that discrimination isn't intrinsically bad. If IS is choosing to market more heavily towards people who want to play as a male, there is objectively nothing wrong with that. As a company, their goal is to make money, and if they believe that to be the correct strategy, they're free to pursue it. There are a limited number of resources for marketing, and they need to be allocated appropriately to make the most sales.

Any appeal to emotion or subjectivity or social issues argument is irrelevant because the only thing that matters to the publisher is sales of the game. Just saying "I don't like it" or "I do like it" is irrelevant. "This has caused me to change my decision to buy/not buy the game" is relevant, both to me and to marketers.

[Tamanoir]

Hmm? What's with that attitude? What exactly did I do wrong?

I posted meaningful posts a few pages back, I'm only here now to recap. How was I being a jerk? How was I negating others' feelings? How was I attacking others?

I did absolutely NONE of the things you are accusing me of. If anything, you're the one attacking me.

That's an honnest misunderstanding.

Sorry, I expressed myself wrongly (I should have thought more before posting), and should have posted this afterwards actually. (Just edited it actually)

I was actually agreeing, but then developped on a different pont (basically addressing those who complain that we shouldn't complain)

I am sincerely sorry if you felt offended by my post and presnt you my excuses.

I hope this post actually cleared things up.

Edited May 22, 2015 by Tamanoir

[Kamui-of-Nohr]

That's an honnest misunderstanding.

Sorry, I expressed myself wrongly (I should have thought more before posting), and should have posted this afterwards actually. (Just edited it actually)

I was actually agreeing, but then developped on a different pont (basically addressing those who complain that we shouldn't complain)

I am sincerely sorry if you felt offended by my post and presnt you my excuses.

I hope this post actually cleared things up.

Even if we don't share the same opinion of how the Kamuis are being portrayed, thank you both and others in this thread for staying respectful and understanding.