Dragoncat Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 Today I was thinking about all the drama in my old sprite thread, and heck, the spriting forum in general...I won't go into detail again, decided to just move forward. I made this full custom cat laguz. Before I make the rest, I'd like to know how it looks. So if it sucks, I won't have to fix multiple sprites. *dives into bunker and prepares to be shot at* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenh Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 It...looks pretty much like your old laguz, complete with the same issues mentioned before. Discussion will devolve into the same arguments as before unless you change or request a different approach. What's your process? How do you go about making a sprite? I feel like you're at a state where you're locked into a symbological representation of animals and know how to reproduce that one symbol representing your idea of a particular animal type, but haven't looked outside your comfort zone to create or observe anything else. Breaking out of the mindset that 'the way I'm used to drawing and seeing it gets the idea across just fine already' can be a challenge but it's something you really ought to try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shin Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 Remember, actually animal anatomy might help in forming a sprite. The back looks rather rigid, and the colouring is rather flat. It's not that it's completely unrecognisable, but consider what makes a cat look like a cat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 Yeah, the body is too straight and flat. Otherwise, I do rather like it. You've got a lot of potential! I've seen way worse first attempts at full custom, trust me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragoncat Posted May 23, 2015 Author Share Posted May 23, 2015 I looked at BwdYeti's customing tutorial. It was helpful. But it didn't include animals so yeah. Basically I started with a stick figureish thing and built around that. Figured the back was too straight. And I have studied feline anatomy, but it's harder to translate that to pixels. Also do you guys think the head is too round? Just noticed that. If somebody could make a visual of how to fix the back that'd be nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragoncat Posted May 23, 2015 Author Share Posted May 23, 2015 Does this look better? I think the head still could use improvement...halp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenh Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 (edited) The face actually seemed a little long, and the nose and ears more mousy than feline. You want to alias the line such a way that it looks like it's actually curved, or find the parts of the body that you can exaggerate to break the line (or exaggerate the curve of the line). If you insist on going monochromatic, I suggest starting with a tested neutral palette like above (someone's 4-color Gameboy swatch I pulled). Or alternatively pull one color from FE-Vanilla sprites. Repeats thing about identifying and reproducing the shapes you see in a real example instead of just sausage with legs and identifying features. I didn't really give this example much thought and feel a lot of it could be better. Edited May 23, 2015 by Lenh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghast Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 reference this and use google https://www.google.ca/search?q=cat&es_sm=93&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=c-lgVaG-PIm9yQTYvYD4Aw&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1366&bih=643#tbm=isch&q=cat+side+view if you want to make cats and other animals you'll need to get really good at referencing real life stuff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragoncat Posted May 23, 2015 Author Share Posted May 23, 2015 Here's the thing. I HAVE referenced. I need tips for turning it into pixels. It's easier to use references when drawing. When pixeling you have a smaller space..harder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toa Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 Pixelling is pretty much just a really small drawing. You should be able to draw out a rough sketch pretty much the same as you would draw traditionally. You have to make some sacrifices on details, but basic shapes and outlines should be pretty much the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragoncat Posted May 23, 2015 Author Share Posted May 23, 2015 Maybe I should just accept the fact that I have no talent... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansem Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 where is the neck? also i'm not a fan of the puke yellow, i think you can go for like a grey or something Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toa Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 You might just want to trace a reference to get a feel for where the shapes and curves are Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eliwan Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 I think you should use more colors, honestly. By limiting yourself to only four? colors, you can't really distinguish between the features. Look at Lenh's-- see how a fair amount of different colors are used to define the shape of the face? The leg is separated from the body by a swatch of the second color, neglecting use of the third color except to separate that from the leg-- while yours uses a very soft progression from the second to the third at the edge. If... that made any sense. And you could also try blocking it out, using different colors to remind yourself of different parts? Instead of thinking of the sprite wholistically, try breaking it down into pieces and then assemble them later. That helped me when learning anatomy for sprites. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragoncat Posted May 24, 2015 Author Share Posted May 24, 2015 (edited) where is the neck? also i'm not a fan of the puke yellow, i think you can go for like a grey or something The cats in the games are yellow. But I suppose I can try a different yellow. The tigers are gray. Granted, individuals will be different colors. I do have a cat OC who's gray(he also has stripes...)but I'm going for generic enemy/npc. Eliwan: How many colors do you suggest? I totally didn't catch how Lenh used more colors. Toa: I actually considered tracing...but I was afraid I'd rely on it too much in the long run. Edited May 24, 2015 by Dragoncat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flamy Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 talent...[Radio edit] talent. If you learn spriting, talent is meaningless. Sure, if you're talented at something, it means you have a step up than most, but in the end, the folks what worked for their abilities in a certain field will probably be at the same level as the talented ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragoncat Posted May 24, 2015 Author Share Posted May 24, 2015 [Radio edit] talent. If you learn spriting, talent is meaningless. Sure, if you're talented at something, it means you have a step up than most, but in the end, the folks what worked for their abilities in a certain field will probably be at the same level as the talented ones. Yeah, but it's frustrating. I hate sucking at something when everyone else pwns at it. It's discouraging to have to work to be good at something, when somebody else just comes natural at it. I'm taking a crack at it again though. Used a different yellow, but keeping the same amount of shades. Lenh's example actually has the same amount. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eliwan Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 (edited) Eliwan: How many colors do you suggest? I totally didn't catch how Lenh used more colors. Well, I'd say... 4 for the main body 4 more for spots/stripes (yes even on a 'generic', it removes the blob-feel) But regarding use of colors, it was not that they used more-- my word choice was misleading, for that I apologize. Lehn used the colors to define a shape-- the contours of the body, and /then/ shaded based on light. In Lehn's cat, the mouth and back of the head use more colors on the interior of the shape, compared to yours. >< Edited May 24, 2015 by Eliwan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 Well, Dcat, remember what I said before? About a quote from Cordelia in Awakening? She said that when you don't have talent, it takes more time and effort to get a new skill, and through that process, you learn things that more naturally talented people miss. It means that you can eventually become BETTER than those talented people if you put your mind to it. I find awesomeness in that. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragoncat Posted May 24, 2015 Author Share Posted May 24, 2015 Honestly? That talent comment was me trying to get someone to say "it looks good". For that I apologize. I'm afraid I still don't get it. Define a shape and then shade wat... But I like the new yellow. Took it from a paladin's horse's tail. Will post it when I attempt to fix the head again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragoncat Posted May 24, 2015 Author Share Posted May 24, 2015 Am I at least making progress... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenh Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 Unfortunately no, I think the only improvement was the color. The head is worse (size is way too small, or body is way too big). I'm afraid I still don't get it. Define a shape and then shade wat... While you can learn these sort of foundational art concepts in pixeling, it doesn't mean it's the best way to go about it. Especially not if you're juggling both learning pixel techniques and tackling a complex subject (like a cat). If you were trying to pixel something simple like a sphere or a cube, or drawing a cat in your most comfortable medium, I think you'd feel less overwhelmed/frustrated with your current ability. So my recommendation is to focus either on pencil drawing cats (using photo/live references), or to simplify what you pixel (basic shapes and/or simple edits of vanilla works(weapon changes and repaints)) for now. Also, with rare exception the artists you admire invested a large chunk of their time/life into reaching that level of their craft, and you would need to as well, if that's the place you want to reach. Dwelling in self-pity won't help your progress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanami Touko Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 Also, with rare exception the artists you admire invested a large chunk of their time/life into reaching that level of their craft, and you would need to as well, if that's the place you want to reach. Dwelling in self-pity won't help your progress. just want to add to this, even the people who just do pixel art have been doing so for years. like, 5-6 years. even i've been doing this for 4 years and i'd consider myself average to sub-par at spriting, with brief moments of quality when i get help/effort really hard. it isn't something that happens in a week, in a month, or even maybe in a year. this will take time, and getting discouraged because you're not immediately doing better is going to stunt any progress. take it in stride, keep going, and eventually you'll see progress, but nothing in art, even pixels, comes easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragoncat Posted May 24, 2015 Author Share Posted May 24, 2015 Well then. I get told not to use the mauthe doog base. Get told to make my own base. And no matter what I do, I still get told I suck. That's just great. I can't use a base(which is easier)without sucking, can't do anything without sucking. Oh, and I've been pencil drawing cats and felines for years. They're not super realistic, but I've developed my own style. How good of an idea is it to pencil draw it and then pixel over it? I still don't understand why the mauthe doog is a bad base. So what if they're demon dogs, they can be made into felines...people heavily edit vanilla sprites all the time. How long did it take you to get where you are, Lenh? And please don't say "I didn't have to work at it" or less than a year. Because if I can't get to that point within that time...ack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenh Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 You're at the bottom of the ladder with a lot of much higher quality work out there, and this is the feedback/advice of people who are able to create said better works. Improve, and people can compliment your improvement/dedication, even if the your work still has problems. I pixel over pencil drawings frequently for mugs. For battlesprites I just make sure I have at least a sketch reference beforehand. I've seen your drawings, and think that you're locked into your 'style', and would benefit from realistic studies. (Also a note from something you said earlier, there's some benefit to tracing/copying something to get a feel for it, but it's something you want to credit your source and be careful with.) Mauthe is a bad base for felines, because (1)it's a dog, (2)it's emanciated. It's like wanting to make cookies out of pancake batter. You're better off understanding how the ingredients work and making something with a better base. I started drawing in highschool, around 2002 (anime and chibis), began pixeling with a pirate copy of RM2k3 around late 2005 and tried FE a few times before becoming more established here. I've always been on-and-off with pixels, but consistent with doodling and have taken a few dedicated classes throughout. So 13 years of intermittent activity. That all has helped me feel like I have a decent sense of observation and replication, but I'm in the same boat as IHaveOpinions (decent skill-level but not consistently great). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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