So What Do You Think of This SSB4 Roster?

[Zera]

-1 for Dr. Stewwart (He's a medic, not a fighter)

Dr. Mario says hi!

My point exactly. Dr Mario should've been a palette swap as he was originally intended.

I have to disagree. Peach and Daisy don't look as similar as Mario and Luigi do.

You're absolutely right. Peach and Daisy look as similar as Pit and Dark Pit.

[Tsunami922]

My point exactly. Dr Mario should've been a palette swap as he was originally intended.

You're absolutely right. Peach and Daisy look as similar as Pit and Dark Pit.

She'll still get rejected because it's not Cat Peach or Pink Gold Peach.

[Randoman]

I don't think some of you are getting what I meant by having an alternate SSB64 roster as a base and constraining myself to Sakurai's roster constraints, so I'll explain it:

Basically, the SSB4 roster I made used an alternate SSB64 roster as a base where Jigglypuff wasn't playable while Eevee was. So Jigglypuff was never technically cut:

So the above image is the "base" where my SSB4 roster comes from. Just like Sakurai's real SSB64 roster, it has 12 characters and would (likely) essentially use the same amount of resources and time designing as the real SSB64 roster.

Now we move onto the alternate Melee roster:

And here's the "default" form for my alternate Melee starting roster:

Note how the clones don't even have question mark slots similar to how the real Melee didn't have question mark slots for clone characters. Also note how random is only available when the full roster is, similar to how the real Melee only allowed for randomly selecting characters after the whole roster is available. And if you're wondering why the initial alternate Melee roster has 15 starters instead of the real Melee's 14, Sheik is technically a starter and resource-wise a full fledged character, who I personally compromised for Toad.

The real Melee had 26 characters (including Sheik. 20 original characters and 6 clones). Just like the real Melee roster, I constrained myself to 20 original characters and 6 clones, since I wanted to see how fair/good of a roster I could come up with under the same constraints Sakurai was under time and tech constraint-wise. I mean, Sakurai himself said that he either had time for 1 original (as in, new moveset) character or 6 clones for Melee, and in general I think that most would prefer a bigger roster but with 6 clones over just one character with an original moveset. Though at the same time, many people aren't fond of characters that use existing personas (like Dr. Mario and Young Link), so I chose 6 clones from characters that wouldn't be merely "same character among the 20 original moveset characters but with Dr. or Young or whatever to differentiate from them." Among them were Daisy who's a clone of Peach, Falco who's a clone of Fox, Leif who's a clone of Marth, Dr. Stewart who's a clone of Captain Falcon (and would have specials that stun rather than do knockback, to reference pressure points which doctors would know well about, and since fighting doctors would probably resort to disabling opponents rather than brute force. And Dr. Stewart does canonically have the muscle for fighting proficiently based on his in-game F-Zero design having a 6 pack), Impa who's a clone of Ganondorf with an orignal moveset, and Lip who's a clone of Zelda.

I really hope that clears things up because there's a lot of Daisy redundancy comments. The thing is, due to me making Melee clones to stick with the same constraints that Sakurai had making Melee, I do need clones in my alternate rosters unless people would be that happy with 1 original moveset character over 6 clones.

And here's the alternate Brawl roster I made:

The real Brawl roster is 35 characters, but if you count Sheik and ZSS and Pokemon Trainers' 3 Pokemon, it's actually 39 playable characters in all, which is what I capped it as for my alternate Brawl roster.

So I really hope that explains things to people since I don't think LordTaco and comet understood my "alternate SSB64 roster as a base" comment based on their responses.

That whole explanation probably came off as really convoluted and confusing, not to mention my whole roster making process, but hey, I actually had fun doing this, so let me have my fun. I won't hold it against you if you think the logic for my "Sakurai constraints for SSB rosters" is flawed, and I would actually be interested in hearing your reasons for why it's flawed. And I know I can't perfectly get the constraints down. They're supposed to be more of approximations if anything.

Did you ever consider Meowth over Eevee? I get that Eevee has the whole Eeveelution fanbase going, but the anime (I know some don't consider it relevant to Smash, but it's the only reason Jigglypuff managed to get in so I personally think it's valid) was at its peak in the late 90s and Meowth was just as relevant there as Pikachu.

Plus I'm having a hard time visualizing Eevee fight considering it lacks any sort of appendage and it's a canon quadruped.

I did consider Meowth, though in the end, he faced a similar problem Jigglypuff has: Meowth loses relevance quite a lot after the 1st gen. I'll admit that Meowth is still more relevant and popular than Jigglypuff since Meowth constantly plays a significant and prominent role in the anime in most of the generations. I definitely understand where you're coming from regarding Eevee fighting in Smash being weird, but if Ivysaur and Duck Hunt were made into playable quadripeds, Eevee could work too. I was thinking even for its A moves, it could utilize its evolutions' powers for them like water spouts for its down smash, a flaming tackle for its dash attack, and such. Essentially, Eevee's powers from its evolutions help aid in its A attacks and give vesatility similar to how the duck attacks for many of Duck Hunt's A attacks or Ivysaur's vines are used to attack for quite a few of his A attacks (since quadripeds for Smash usually have too stubby of limbs to attack with and need some sort of additional method for performing A attacks).

[Ema Skye]

Villager says hi too. Also not a fighter.

Also, Eevee being a quadruped is fine. Four legs didn't stop Ivysaur from being a part of Pokemon Trainer's arsenal.

Ivysaur had the vines which acted like arms. Eevee doesn't have a readily available substitute. But Rando's transformation idea is really cool.

Also Rando, would you mind if other people used this as an opportunity to post their evolving rosters like yours?

Edited June 2, 2015 by splart

[Randoman]

Rando's transformation idea is really cool.

Also Rando, would you mind if other people used this as an opportunity to post their evolving rosters like yours?

Thanks!!

Well, if people have actually made their own alternate SSB64, Melee, and Brawl rosters with them building upon the previous alternate roster (or want to make some for this thread), sure!! It'll be really neat seeing what other people's alternate rosters look like over the span of the 4 Smash games.

[Jedi]

I may whip up an interesting set, I can use the roster maker.

[Shin]

I would pay money for Tingle to be playable in Smash, I think he's got a lot of scope.

[Baron the Shining Blade]

I'm surprised no one has pointed this out, but I'm curious why Seliph is in there. Unless that was supposed to be Marth. I know they are uncannily similar in appearance.

[Hardin]

I'm surprised no one has pointed this out, but I'm curious why Seliph is in there. Unless that was supposed to be Marth. I know they are uncannily similar in appearance.

That's Marth's artwork from the original TCG.

[Randoman]

Hardin is right. That's Marth from the older Fire Emblem TCG:

Also, a question for those of you that don't like/question my playable Pokemon choices: since Gamefreak/The Pokemon Company was really picky with Sakurai regarding Pokemon reps and they likely would've wanted at least one new generation playable Pokemon for both Brawl and SSB4, which recent generation Pokemon would you pick for those two games?

I honestly felt that Lucario and Zoroark were the most reasonable choices for new Pokemon reps (I understand why people would think Gardevoir is a bad/weird choice) for Brawl and SSB4, respectively, and I doubt Gamefreak/The Pokemon Company would allow Brawl and SSB4 to only have first gen Pokemon only (Melee, they actually did at first since Sakurai originally wasn't planning for clones (and thus, wasn't planning on playable Pichu) in Melee).

Edited June 6, 2015 by Randoman

[Baron the Shining Blade]

Hardin is right. That's Marth from the older Fire Emblem TCG:

Ah, that's what threw me off. I've barely looked at the TCG artwork. But their resemblance is still uncanny.

[Misses Elise-chan!]

I'm glad with the current roster, including announced and future DLCs, but I really think they need these characters...

...I really wish they'd put in Ninten, he's my most wanted unlikely newcomer, the last main protagonist in the Mother series. He can teleport with teleportation or 4th-D Slip. He has access to PK Beam and a possible reflector with PK Shield.

As for Roy and Ryu. After I beat FE6, I started caring more about his addition. Ryu is the perfect rep for the fighting genre.

Issac, mostly because everyone else wants him and I know he'd have a good moveset. Haven't finished the first Golden Sun yet though, I will eventually.

Although I want Krystal, Wolf gets priority and should be added before she does. Starfox should be fine with three reps, but when it becomes time to add more newcomers in the next Smash, Krystal is a good option, since all the popular and well known characters have been taken already.

I still miss Ice Climbers though.

[L9999]

With all the odd choices I'm surprised you didn't pick something more obscure like Ayumi Tachibana (Who? Exactly). The idea behind Leif is very impressive and I didn't see it coming (because it has been long since I don't play FE4). But I have to say that there is too much Mario. I think Killager and Captain Falcon carry their series fine alone. Starfy? No. I can't say much on Pokemon since it has always been a mess.