The Radiant Hero Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 (edited) ... [spoiler=Derailing?]The first thing that you need to acknowledge is that Fire Emblem is based in a romanticized fantasy environment. Yes, many women are currently oppressed in some Middle Eastern countries. Yes, the Middle Eastern world had a bad past. But Medieval Europe was just as bad. In many ways, feudal Japan was also just as bad. In Europe, if a woman studied any sort of sciences, they would be burned for witchcraft. In Japan, they broke their girl's feet when they were young for the sake of beauty. The reason we're okay with those past events for Europe and Japan, but not for the Middle East, is because many people in the United States have waged a personal war against the entire area, whether or not the people there are our enemies or not. This includes teachers. The exact same thing has happened in WWII with the Japanese, and in WWI with Germans, and with Vietnamese in the Vietnam War. I don't think anyone here was suggesting that they leave out female characters, and that's one of the most ignorant things I've heard on these forums. You took our interest in the culture of the Middle East and twisted it into something vile. What do you mean the Middle Eastern World had a bad past? If you know your History the Middle Eastern world had the brightest past there is, to the point that there was an era where there was no single poor person, alot of our greatest leaders used to live a humble life, we had a common house of money, we had schools to teach children how to read and write, we had scientist that had a huge influence in today's science, if anything is bad is our current affairs, we in middle east are currently living our dark ages.... It's not meant at you, it's just a misconception of our history that's all. Edited June 8, 2015 by The Radiant Hero Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Odinson Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 (edited) I'm pretty sure it was only China that footbinded, but feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. As resident Chinese person, I will fully acknowledge this bit of dark history of my culture's past. In fact, both times China was conquered by a non-Han ethnic group (during the Yuan dynasty by the Mongols and the Qing dynasty by the Manchus) the women of both groups were basically like "are you fucking kidding me I'm not having any of this". While the Manchurian women in Qing has wearing heels that imitated the look (and were prolly still pretty uncomfortable all things considered), they refused to actually damage their feet to that degree for it. IIRC the Qing government tried to ban it unsuccessfully, and it wasn't until some time after the fall of Qing when harsher enforcement of the foot-binding ban was in place. Could I get a source on its use in Japan? I cannot find any and when the Japanese took control of Taiwan in the late 1800s they were the ones to actually outlaw it there. I'm pretty sure it was just China. Edited June 8, 2015 by Thor Odinson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacack Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 What do you mean the Middle Eastern World had a bad past? If you know your History the Middle Eastern world had the brightest past there is, to the point that there was an era where there was no single poor person, alot of our greatest leaders used to live a humble life, we had a common house of money, we had schools to teach children how to read and write, we had scientist that had a huge influence in today's science, if anything is bad is our current affairs, we in middle east are currently living our dark ages.... I'd argue about the brightest past there is. Yes, there was an era of prosperity, but the Middle East has been at war more than it has been at peace. And women have only gotten equal rights in some areas in recent times. Of course, generalizations, so I know that it depends on the area. As resident Chinese person, I will fully acknowledge this bit of dark history of my culture's past. In fact, both times China was conquered by a non-Han ethnic group (during the Yuan dynasty by the Mongols and the Qing dynasty by the Manchus) the women of both groups were basically like "are you fucking kidding me I'm not having any of this". While the Manchurian women in Qing has wearing heels that imitated the look (and were prolly still pretty uncomfortable all things considered), they refused to actually damage their feet to that degree for it. IIRC the Qing government tried to ban it unsuccessfully, and it wasn't until some time after the fall of Qing when harsher enforcement of the foot-binding ban was in place. Could I get a source on its use in Japan? I cannot find any and when the Japanese took control of Taiwan in the late 1800s they were the ones to actually outlaw it there. I'm pretty sure it was just China. Scratch that. I misread the source I found. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Radiant Hero Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 I'd argue about the brightest past there is. Yes, there was an era of prosperity, but the Middle East has been at war more than it has been at peace. And women have only gotten equal rights in some areas in recent times. Of course, generalizations, so I know that it depends on the area. If you think about it War was part of the past lifestyle, in fact it's only in the last century where peace is actually a real thing, I'd argue that Middle Easterns saved the world from a Mangholian invasion, if the Mamluks didn't stop the Holaco and his armies imagine what would happen to Medieval Europe, and of course the Crusades of Corruption and Greed (as I would like to call them) wasn't helping either... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ciarre Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Even if they were at war, during the Middle Ages the Middle Eastern/Islamic nations had one of the best militaries in the world. Plus they were also the pinnacle of science, medicine, technology, etc. so I would call that a pretty bright past, even if there was warfare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Radiant Hero Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Even if they were at war, during the Middle Ages the Middle Eastern/Islamic nations had one of the best militaries in the world. Plus they were also the pinnacle of science, medicine, technology, etc. so I would call that a pretty bright past, even if there was warfare. I'm in loss for words :), Thanks that is the message that I wanted to send, but of course my English is quite terrible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Holy Elf Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Honestly I've never given much thought to this before If, but I've loved how If seems to be modelling its two countries off of different real-life cultures (romanticised to be sure, but that's fine by me) and would love to see them run with this in future games with other real-world cultures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Radiant Hero Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 The most known Warrior and the Strongest in Arabian history was actually black, his name was Antara Ibn Alshaddad, you need to read his story, it's amazing, and to top it of it's real, but some people say his story is romanticised a little but seriously it's quite the epic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacack Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 If you think about it War was part of the past lifestyle, in fact it's only in the last century where peace is actually a real thing, I'd argue that Middle Easterns saved the world from a Mangholian invasion, if the Mamluks didn't stop the Holaco and his armies imagine what would happen to Medieval Europe, and of course the Crusades of Corruption and Greed (as I would like to call them) wasn't helping either... Even if they were at war, during the Middle Ages the Middle Eastern/Islamic nations had one of the best militaries in the world. Plus they were also the pinnacle of science, medicine, technology, etc. so I would call that a pretty bright past, even if there was warfare. I'm in loss for words :), Thanks that is the message that I wanted to send, but of course my English is quite terrible. That is true. Socially, there were issues, but there are in any society, especially of that time. There weren't a lot of societies that had equality for women, specifically. I suppose it's subjective. Speaking of women and some classes they could hold: Dancers are an obvious choice, of course. But, if this were real, would you rather have the dancers act as traditional dancers or as magicians? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Odinson Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 (edited) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khawlah_bint_al-Azwar I'm just gonna leave this from my previous post and pretty sure women can hold any class they want, especially considering FE doesn't even take place in any real historical settings and have only been aesthetically inspired/romanticised/etc with settings, which take place in an original universe copyright Intelligent Systems It's not like any of FE's clothes have been remotely historically accurate, either. Generally it takes liberties from a variety of european time periods, but not any particular one. Edited June 9, 2015 by Thor Odinson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IGdood Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Arab/Muslims never fought on Camel backs, we always use horses in fact we are well known for our Horseman ship (Nomad Troopers are the closest thing to an Arabian Cavalier). This is true. Did anyone ever use camels in combat? Not sure if the Sassanids or Parthians did it. There is indeed a rich history to draw from here; even before the Islamic period a game developer can use the Sassanids, Parthians, Persians, Nabateans, Sabaeans as inspiration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinjaMonkey Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 (edited) FE has done this like five times over. There's not need to be a dick over it. Besides, I don't recall any FE nation invading countries, fuelled by unparalleled industrial might... Edited June 9, 2015 by NinjaMonkey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NekoKnight Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 itt we Age of Empires now. I'm going to say "no thanks". I wouldn't mind some middle-eastern themed characters but stuff like camels, elephants and especially firearms doesn't sound like Fire Emblem at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IGdood Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 I wouldn't mind some middle-eastern themed characters but stuff like camels, elephants and especially firearms doesn't sound like Fire Emblem at all. What do you think of the eastern Hoshido in Fire Emblem IF? Firearms definitely aren't FE-like, though I can imagine them being just like crossbows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Odinson Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 (edited) I mean FE has cats and bunnies, why not camels? Games evolve; if we had 14 games of basically the same shit it'd be pretty boring. As long as it's still FE-like gameplay and structure at its core (grid-based turn base strategy with the weapon triangle with a decent-to-large sized cast of individualized characters with distinct personalities) and published under the FE title by Intelligent Systems I'm not sure what else you really need to be considered a FE. Edited June 9, 2015 by Thor Odinson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Radiant Hero Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 (edited) That is true. Socially, there were issues, but there are in any society, especially of that time. There weren't a lot of societies that had equality for women, specifically. I suppose it's subjective. Speaking of women and some classes they could hold: Dancers are an obvious choice, of course. But, if this were real, would you rather have the dancers act as traditional dancers or as magicians? You can have Poets to act as Bards.... Poetry and Chivalry the essence of any Arabian Warrior... Hashashin is Actually Plural for Hashash You can have Ameer Al Behaar this the original term for "Admiral" which mean the "Prince of Seas" A class similar to the Pirate, but instead he uses Swords as his main weapon, you can forget about the Say'yaf class, we instead make the class as Hashash where they actually are Assassins but they have terrain advantage where they have increased evasion in the sand, and those Hashashin (Plural) use Hidden weapons(Poisoned Daggers) only Ghazi means "Conqueror" or Meghuar (Brave, Vanguard) is basically the Hero class, I would say he would an Infantry unit the uses Swords,Spears and Halberds instead of Hidden weapons Magician would be Arraf (Fortune Teller) or Sahher (Magician) Jundei (Soldier) : Lance Sah'ham (Archer) > Qannas (Sniper): Bow Say'yaf (Myrmidon) > Ameer Al Behaar (Pirate with Swords/Sword Master who can swim): Sword > Bassel (Hero/Brave): Sword/Axes/Hidden Weapon (Falcons Romanticized from me xD) Khay'yal (Cavalier) > Faris (Noble Knight/Ranger) : Horseback Sword/Bows > Ghazi (Conqueror Knight/Great Knight) : Horseback Swords/Axes/Lances > Fat'tih (Holy Knight/Paladin) : Horseback Sword/Lances Sah'her (Mage) > Arraf (Fortune Teller/Sage) : Scripts/Scrolls > Moshaweth (Necromancer): Scripts/ Hidden Weapon (Djin) So'louk (Theif) > Hashash ( Assassin ) : Hidden Weapon (Poisoned Daggers) > Sarab (Mirage/Rogue) : Basically it will be a rogue and uses Mirage as a way to hide in the desert Faris Al Rakh (Roc Knight/Pegasus Knight)> Faris Al Anqa'a (Phoenix Knight/Falcon Knight): Lances and Swords Mohareb (Warrior) > Meghuar(Brave Warrior) : Axes/Bows/Swords > Bassel (Hero/Brave) : Sword/Axes/Hidden Weapons (Falcon) Ameer (Prince) > Sultan : Sword/Lance/Axes/Bows Horseback > Ameer Al Omara'a (The Prince of Princes) : Sword/Lances/Bows Edited June 9, 2015 by The Radiant Hero Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tryhard Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 (edited) itt we Age of Empires now. I'm going to say "no thanks". I wouldn't mind some middle-eastern themed characters but stuff like camels, elephants and especially firearms doesn't sound like Fire Emblem at all. Age of Empires? I'm okay with this, the Saracens, Persians and Turks kicked ass. Identity of games change, but I'd actually be okay with an attempt at a FE game with firearms in it. Edited June 9, 2015 by Tryhard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NekoKnight Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 What do you think of the eastern Hoshido in Fire Emblem IF? Firearms definitely aren't FE-like, though I can imagine them being just like crossbows. We've had eastern themed characters/classes like Swordmasters and Nomads before tho. Personally, I'm pretty satisfied with the cultural diversity that shows up in Fire Emblem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IGdood Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 We've had eastern themed characters/classes like Swordmasters and Nomads before tho. Personally, I'm pretty satisfied with the cultural diversity that shows up in Fire Emblem. You can have Poets to act as Bards.... Poetry and Chivalry the essence of any Arabian Warrior... Hashashin is Actually Plural for Hashash You can have Ameer Al Behaar this the original term for "Admiral" which mean the "Prince of Seas" A class similar to the Pirate, but instead he uses Swords as his main weapon, you can forget about the Say'yaf class, we instead make the class as Hashash where they actually are Assassins but they have terrain advantage where they have increased evasion in the sand, and those Hashashin (Plural) use Hidden weapons(Poisoned Daggers) only Ghazi means "Conqueror" or Meghuar (Brave, Vanguard) is basically the Hero class, I would say he would an Infantry unit the uses Swords,Spears and Halberds instead of Hidden weapons Magician would be Arraf (Fortune Teller) or Sahher (Magician) Jundei (Soldier) : Lance Sah'ham (Archer) > Qannas (Sniper): Bow Say'yaf (Myrmidon) > Ameer Al Behaar (Pirate with Swords/Sword Master who can swim): Sword > Meghuar (Hero/Vanguar): Sword/Axes/Hidden Weapon (Falcons Romanticized from me xD) Khay'yal (Cavalier) > Faris (Knight) : Horseback Sword/Lances/Bows > Bassel (Hero Knight) : Horseback Sword/Lances/Axes Sah'her (Mage) > Arraf (Fortune Teller) : Scripts/Scrolls > Moshaweth (Necromancer): Scripts/ Hidden Weapon (Djin) So'louk (Theif) > Hashash ( Assassin ) : Hidden Weapon (Poisoned Daggers) > Sarab (Mirage) : Basically it will be a rogue and uses Mirage as a way to hide in the desert Faris Al Rakh (Roc Knight)> Faris Al Anqa'a (Phoenix Knight): Lances and Swords Mohareb (Warrior) > Ghazi (Conqueror) : Axes/Bows/Swords > Meghuar (Brave/Vanguard) : Sword/Axes/Hidden Weapons (Falcon) Ameer (Prince) > Sultan : Sword/Lance/Axes/Bows Horseback > Ameer Al Omara'a (The Prince of Princes) : Sword/Lances/Bows That's very interesting! A bit off-topic but is the language used here for names of units Arabic or related to it? Sorry I'm a bit uninformed on this topic. http://europabarbarorum.heimstatt.net/index.php?mp=unit&unit=arabian%20missile%20arab%20slingers&text=&ownership=any&class=any&category=any http://europabarbarorum.heimstatt.net/index.php?mp=unit&unit=arabian%20missile%20northern%20arab%20levy&text=&ownership=any&class=any&category=any We've had eastern themed characters/classes like Swordmasters and Nomads before tho. Personally, I'm pretty satisfied with the cultural diversity that shows up in Fire Emblem. True. Ah, to change or not to change.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Radiant Hero Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 That's very interesting! A bit off-topic but is the language used here for names of units Arabic or related to it? Sorry I'm a bit uninformed on this topic. Arabic 100% I would actually like a feedback if possible :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IGdood Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Arabic 100% I would actually like a feedback if possible :) Thanks! What do you mean by feedback? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Radiant Hero Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Thanks! What do you mean by feedback? On the classes ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sentacotus Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 How about Catapracts? You know like what the Byzantines used. Not exactly associated with traditional middle eastern forces but could be a stand in for heavy cavalry/great knights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Radiant Hero Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 How about Catapracts? You know like what the Byzantines used. Not exactly associated with traditional middle eastern forces but could be a stand in for heavy cavalry/great knights. I dunno, it wouldn't fit the whole motif, after all Byzantines are Romans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sentacotus Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 I dunno, it wouldn't fit the whole motif, after all Byzantines are Romans. Well kinda at least in name. There were alot of differences. They spoke Greek for one and their rule was more of a theocratic aristocracy as compared to the pragmatic Emperors of Rome. While they did use them extensively Catapracts were actually first used by the Sassainad Persians. While Persians are not Arabs they are still a part of the middle east geographically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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