NekoKnight Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 With the reveal that Kamui's Hoshido siblings are actually just his step siblings how do you think this reflects on the story. Is Kamui's choice to side with Hoshido cheapened/undermined completely without the originally advertised premise of "Birthright" or did he have enough reason to choose them, even before learning the truth of his family? For those who read the supports (I haven't S-ranked any siblings yet) does the writing do a good job of explaining how his siblings can see him in a romantic light or is it a "We're not blood related so this isn't weird anymore" cop-out? Do they only reveal this information in the S-rank support and if so, why don't they mention it before? This question also goes for how convincing the writing is for the Nohr siblings. Personally, I have mixed feelings about this. On one hand, Kamui already had reason to suspect that Garon tried to kill him TWICE which is probably enough reason to consider switching sides. On the other hand, it's hard to imagine Kamui abandoning his Nohr family and culture just for his mother that he only knew briefly. If I were Kamui, I'd probably be pretty pissed my Hoshido siblings lied to me to get me to betray Nohr. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirokan Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 (edited) Wait, before I click this spoiler tag, is this pertaining to third route stuff? Though I guess the concept of this thread already gave it away...? xD EDIT: Well nobody answered, so I will assume it is third path stuff and leave the thread then... xD Edited July 1, 2015 by Kirokan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivanhellsing Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 3th route master race and tbh im not THAT angry , Is dissapointing I know but It could be way more worse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunwoo Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Unless Kamui not being related to any of the Hoshido siblings by blood is a major plot point of any of the three paths -- and by "major plot point" I mean one so big that it literally could not have been done while keeping him blood-related to at least one of the siblings (Takumi and Sakura are younger than Kamui, so Kamui could've at least been half-siblings with those two) -- I'm less than pleased with the revelation. While I believe that one can be close to their step siblings without sharing blood with them, what the April direct led me to believe was that Kamui was stuck choosing between the family that raised him and the family he was bound by blood to. And when we learn that he isn't actually blood-related to any of the Hoshido siblings, it feels a bit cheap and I feel like I was lied to. Although, I can't help but wonder if the "cheap" part is due to the fact that Kamui can marry them. After Awakening's whole "Robin loved his/her spouse above all else" and the pairing spiel, I was seriously hoping that Fates would focus more on the bonds between family (and less on romance) and the importance of those who raised you and those you were born to. And this revelation that Kamui isn't really related to the Hoshido siblings by blood AND that he can marry them cheapened the "blood bonds" thing so much for me. It's like despite promoting familial love he can marry those he is supposed to feel familial love for. Like it isn't good enough. Like "romantic bonds" are the "superior" form of love. And it really pissed me off. I'm too tired of this shit to make a big deal about it anymore and I'm willing to just deal with it. But when I think about it, I feel a bit lied to by the initial promotional material. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DualMix Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 (edited) Welp... Edited July 1, 2015 by DualMix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquakat Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 (edited) Unless Kamui not being related to any of the Hoshido siblings by blood is a major plot point of any of the three paths -- and by "major plot point" I mean one so big that it literally could not have been done while keeping him blood-related to at least one of the siblings (Takumi and Sakura are younger than Kamui, so Kamui could've at least been half-siblings with those two) -- I'm less than pleased with the revelation. While I believe that one can be close to their step siblings without sharing blood with them, what the April direct led me to believe was that Kamui was stuck choosing between the family that raised him and the family he was bound by blood to. And when we learn that he isn't actually blood-related to any of the Hoshido siblings, it feels a bit cheap and I feel like I was lied to. Although, I can't help but wonder if the "cheap" part is due to the fact that Kamui can marry them. After Awakening's whole "Robin loved his/her spouse above all else" and the pairing spiel, I was seriously hoping that Fates would focus more on the bonds between family (and less on romance) and the importance of those who raised you and those you were born to. And this revelation that Kamui isn't really related to the Hoshido siblings by blood AND that he can marry them cheapened the "blood bonds" thing so much for me. It's like despite promoting familial love he can marry those he is supposed to feel familial love for. Like it isn't good enough. Like "romantic bonds" are the "superior" form of love. And it really pissed me off. I'm too tired of this shit to make a big deal about it anymore and I'm willing to just deal with it. But when I think about it, I feel a bit lied to by the initial promotional material. Mmm, it is plot reasons, but I do agree in that I think that they should've been blood-bound to at least the YOUNGER two. I mean; it makes sense, and it's kind of sweet how it paints Sumeragi, but I think it would've been stronger otherwise. But it seems like most of the promotional stuff for both routes tread into "Trailers Are Always Wrong" waters. Ah well. I can't say I have much of an opinion on the whole choice to start with, so the revelation didn't matter so much to me. As someone who has... interesting relations with many blood relatives (actually, with my grandparents dead, that's most of the blood relatives)... I never see a point to 'choosing blood over bonds'. You could argue, though, that the revelation of stepsiblings gives even more similarities between the two royal families, making them an even greater case of "Not So Different". Edited July 1, 2015 by Aquakat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivanhellsing Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 I cannot wait how fe fans from tumblr will begin to bitch about this lol , and say radiant derp master race <_< Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunwoo Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Mmm, it is plot reasons, but I do agree in that I think that they should've been blood-bound to at least the YOUNGER two. I mean; it makes sense, and it's kind of sweet how it paints Sumeragi, but I think it would've been stronger otherwise. But it seems like most of the promotional stuff for both routes tread into "Trailers Are Always Wrong" waters. Ah well. I spoiled myself on parts of the third path, so I figured that there was a plot-related reason for Kamui not being Sumeragi's child. However, as far as I know, Mikoto herself doesn't have any special bloodline or powers of her own, so I think that at the very least Takumi and Sakura should've been Kamui's half-siblings. I don't think that would've changed anything. And what irritates me is that I think the "excuse" for the younger two not being related to Kamui is so that people could marry them. And I'm sorry, but I really feel that being able to marry your "siblings" on either side really cheapens the whole idea of "family". I really wanted them to focus on the love you have for your family, for your parents and your siblings, and less on the love you feel for your spouse after Awakening. And I really feel like being able to marry the siblings really cheapens the family aspect, and while I don't want to make a big stink over this either, it's a pretty significant part of the game I am seriously unhappy about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NekoKnight Posted July 1, 2015 Author Share Posted July 1, 2015 Wait, before I click this spoiler tag, is this pertaining to third route stuff? Though I guess the concept of this thread already gave it away...? xD Just stuff based on the first two routes, primarily Hoshido because that's what I'm playing. Unless Kamui not being related to any of the Hoshido siblings by blood is a major plot point of any of the three paths -- and by "major plot point" I mean one so big that it literally could not have been done while keeping him blood-related to at least one of the siblings (Takumi and Sakura are younger than Kamui, so Kamui could've at least been half-siblings with those two) -- I'm less than pleased with the revelation. While I believe that one can be close to their step siblings without sharing blood with them, what the April direct led me to believe was that Kamui was stuck choosing between the family that raised him and the family he was bound by blood to. And when we learn that he isn't actually blood-related to any of the Hoshido siblings, it feels a bit cheap and I feel like I was lied to. Although, I can't help but wonder if the "cheap" part is due to the fact that Kamui can marry them. After Awakening's whole "Robin loved his/her spouse above all else" and the pairing spiel, I was seriously hoping that Fates would focus more on the bonds between family (and less on romance) and the importance of those who raised you and those you were born to. And this revelation that Kamui isn't really related to the Hoshido siblings by blood AND that he can marry them cheapened the "blood bonds" thing so much for me. It's like despite promoting familial love he can marry those he is supposed to feel familial love for. Like it isn't good enough. Like "romantic bonds" are the "superior" form of love. And it really pissed me off. I'm too tired of this shit to make a big deal about it anymore and I'm willing to just deal with it. But when I think about it, I feel a bit lied to by the initial promotional material. They really tried to have their cake and eat it too. You can't promote family bonds and romantic bonds at the same time unless you are implicitly going for an incest theme. Either Kamui's siblings think of him like family or they don't. Romancable siblings blurred this line making the canon relationships ambiguous at best. I don't like this "pick and choose your canon" for something so fundamental in the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirokan Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Just stuff based on the first two routes, primarily Hoshido because that's what I'm playing. They really tried to have their cake and eat it too. You can't promote family bonds and romantic bonds at the same time unless you are implicitly going for an incest theme. Either Kamui's siblings think of him like family or they don't. Romancable siblings blurred this line making the canon relationships ambiguous at best. I don't like this "pick and choose your canon" for something so fundamental in the game. Ah, okay in that case I can join the discussion. : ) Agreed about this... really. They need to take a step back and do things one at a time, rather than throwing it in all at once. One game for siblings, then next game, even if in a few years, do it about romance. It would probably come out a bit better and certainly more organized. It is like they are in a rush to repeat Awakening, or perhaps to just get everything out there fearing it may be their last again or something. xD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Water Mage Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 (edited) To be fair, Takumi, Hinoka and Sakura seem to honestly believe that you are their blood sibiling, only Ryoma seems to know the truth. Edited July 1, 2015 by Water Mage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nordopolica Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 [spoiler=] I hate the "I just found out we're not blood siblings so I'm going to immediately translate all of this sibling love that I had for you into romantic love! All good, right!?" cop out that those supports take, and S-ranking any of the family members gives me the heeby-jeebies, but I wouldn't judge anyone for doing it. It DOES make story sense, I guess? but there's no reason as to why Mikoto couldn't have been the mother of Takumi and Sakura or even just the latter. It just seems like they did it for S-ranking purposes only and that makes me a little mad. The "mother sent me a letter" stuff is just downright cringe-worthy, too. Like I'm pretty sure I've read a bad fanfiction with that exact excuse. Ah, okay in that case I can join the discussion. : ) Agreed about this... really. They need to take a step back and do things one at a time, rather than throwing it in all at once. One game for siblings, then next game, even if in a few years, do it about romance. It would probably come out a bit better and certainly more organized. It is like they are in a rush to repeat Awakening, or perhaps to just get everything out there fearing it may be their last again or something. xD Agreed with this. This game should have been centred on family relationships. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crysta Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 (edited) I already knew they were gonna let you S-rank with your Nohrian siblings simply because I knew there would be quite a few players who would want to waifu a certain sibling from that side the minute the trailer went live. I honestly wondered how they were going to try to let you do the same for Hoshido because I was under the mistaken assumption that the family blood tie theme was being pushed too hard for it not to be a thing, and when I heard they actually did pull the "but you're not REALLY related to them" shtick I laughed on the inside. It's dumb and lazy, but whatever. I'm not going to be getting into any of their pants. Edited July 1, 2015 by Crysta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NekoKnight Posted July 1, 2015 Author Share Posted July 1, 2015 In my head canon, the Hoshido siblings will be half-siblings to Kamui so we can keep the 'blood related' premise and still keep options open for Kamui's father. Let them be incestuous if that's the path it takes but not committing to it being a family or romantic relationship was a mistake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omniwhatever Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 (edited) Honestly, I'm displeased with this as well. As covered quite well above me, it really cheapens the whole "Blood vs loyalty" thing Fates was going for. Yes, there's Kamui's mother and what happens to her, and its what they BELIEVE when making the choice, but it doesn't change the fact the ENTIRE PURPOSE they advertised for joining Hoshido, is not even true. This plot point could've had potential for some good drama or character building, but no. The revelation is delegated to, in Hoshido path at least, the one where it matters, S supports and not the plot itself. They did this solely to let you be able to marry your Hoshido family, I'm sure. Its also done in the stupidest way, except kinda for Ryoma. I heard the other siblings, or perhaps it was just Hinoka, got some kind of letter or message from Mikoto about Kamui. It makes me feel like the message might as well be "Yo kids hey, I'm bringing my kid into this family and they're gonna grow up to be super hot. So in the off chance you want to hook up, its totally okay because you're not blood related. HAVE FUN!" I'd have taken less of an issue with it if some of them were at least your half siblings, then there'd be some legitimate weight behind the bloodline thing. Edited July 1, 2015 by Omniwhatever Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frelia Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 (edited) Ah, okay in that case I can join the discussion. : ) Agreed about this... really. They need to take a step back and do things one at a time, rather than throwing it in all at once. One game for siblings, then next game, even if in a few years, do it about romance. It would probably come out a bit better and certainly more organized. It is like they are in a rush to repeat Awakening, or perhaps to just get everything out there fearing it may be their last again or something. xD yeah... IntSys really does need to slow down and do things one at a time. I am really displeased to know that Kamui is not related to any of the Hoshido siblings by blood. Yes I do think it's possible to be family without being related by blood and I will stand by that since I have some experience with it. However the way IntSys is going about it sounds really cheap. And like other people have mentioned I feel lied to since they promoted how Kamui's Hoshido siblings are related by blood so much before the games were released. Along with that the "mother sent me a letter about you" thing feels like a really bad excuse. Edited July 1, 2015 by Eevonee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CocoaGalaxy Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Hi folks, seems like lots of things Well yes, they are trying to Have their cake and eat it too, it's the "new fad" of sorts, see pokemon and what not, they want EVERYTHING. Including dem same sex marriages. But that aside, I personally don't have a problem with this, but I must be the crazy one. In any case, it's complicated and difficult to say. The choice isn't a clear cut choice, which is why the 3rd option is technically the best option, in which you "lose nothing" so to speak, since actually making the choice makes you lose something. Enough of the meta talk though, from a character perspective, I don't know japanese so I have no idea what is said in the storyline before the choice, but basically, I don't really see the choice from a family perspective. It's hard to say... I would say that they sort of sensationalized (and in some cases I guess, outright lied to us about the content of the game maybe?) the game(s) in order to generate more hype and publicity=more sales, which is kinda obvious with the whole fanservice "fiasco", so I doubt things like the entire family related things would be the last thing on their minds. The incest related things is hard to say really. Really difficult. I myself have no problem with the family and romance thing, but hmm. I think I should stop there though, maybe this might have been helpful, maybe it might not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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