Unit Optimization Thread

[HeoandReo]

-snip-

Berserker I think is a good final class for Effie given her personal skill. She'll want to be in a class with high strength so that it's more likely for Super Strength to activate against an enemy. The crit evade penalty isn't enough for me to worry about personally. She would work well with Benoit or Arthur.

Orochi!Gurei really does need Defensive Formation in order to function well because of that speed mod. Consider getting an A+ with Ignis instead and going Exorcist instead of Strategist if you're averse to using the Logbook. Most of the Hoshido dads have -2 speed mods - there's really no simple way around that, and at least one kid will have to deal with it.

Oboro and Mozume are probably the best remaining moms for most of the other kids, so it'll come down to which ones you make a priority. Mozume can also pick up Lance Fighter herself from A+ Oboro, so that gives her some extra leverage for marrying a person who has another lance class like Silas or possibly kunai access like Kaze.

Kagerou could work well with Mitama but Effie is better modwise and Oboro gives good stats and a great ending class at the cost of Herb Merchant overlap and thus an Extravagance/Copycat inheritance that another kid would miss. She could A+ with Kanna for a good physical class, but given that you're going Dark Mage I don't think Mitama could take advantage of that well.

Aside from Mitama, I do like Kagerou on Arthur for 5 strength Lutz and giving Arthur some good skills and classes as an aura user. Puppeteer could also be a good class for Arthur personally to end in - access to kunai for debuffs, 7 move and good enough pairup bonuses, so he's basically a mounted kunai user with a comparatively uncommon weakness. (Only weak to units with Puppet Break) Elite Ninja has less movement but better bonuses so that's another option. Kagerou for her part gets 43 strength as a Berserker, which isn't a bad use of her strength mod either. Mozume is a good option here too - Lutz gets good offensive skills, Mozume likes getting Fighter herself for her own offensive skills, and I hear Arthur has some hit issues so Raven Strike from Mozume's Bowman could help.

Aside from Arthur, Mozume/Nishiki could work. Stacks his speed, fixes his skill/defense a bit, and doesn't hurt his offensive stats. Oboro runs into some overlap with Basara, but the mods are a bit better.

There's no really great use of Belka imo - it's the same problem as Rinkah in that her classes are underwhelming and no child wants her modifiers, except Rinkah is arguably better because she at least gives speed. I usually just have Belka as a dump mother for Ignis, but it's not all doom and gloom for her. Lutz could work due to Swallow Strike, and Mitama could probably do good things with her if she can inherit Axefaire from mom or Asama A+ Arthur. Belka does have one good A+ with Oboro though, which is enough to keep her afloat as a unit.

Felicia is hard to pair, especially if Eponine/Gurei do not take magic mothers, mostly because Felicia's personal growth is bad for a magic mom(35%) and her mods lean too strongly to magic for other possibilities to work. Asama could work but their offensive stats don't play nice with each other at all. Magic growth is decent and 3 speed is alright, but Mitama won't be exceptional offensively. Felicia could A+ Hana and pass Line of Death so that Mitama gets Extravagance/LoD combo to make up for the offensive loss, or she could marry Hisame herself. Kaze could work too, though Felicia's magic growth is low enough to cause issues - Midoriko basically must take an A+ with Ophelia if she wants to get magic easily, hurting her flexibility. (She would really prefer Kinu for Breaking Sky or Kanna for whatever it is that Kanna will give her, depending on what second class Avatar takes)

Edited August 7, 2015 by HeoandReo

[Ebony]

Oh yeah, what's a good second job to have in Nohr to also pass to Zero? I'm thinking a Hoshido class, so I'm thinking either Lance Fighter or Priestess.

[HeoandReo]

Oh yeah, what's a good second job to have in Nohr to also pass to Zero? I'm thinking a Hoshido class, so I'm thinking either Lance Fighter or Priestess.

I'd go Spellcaster for the best of both worlds - Access to Basara means Breaking Sky which can make for easier captures due to being a more reliable proc than Luna, and access to Exorcist for Tomefaire, in case Zero opts to go for magic. (He does have OK growths and mods for that, after all.)

[astrophys]

Thanks for your comments HeoandReo… when I'm feeling more awake I'll try organizing the rest of my list.

[Azz]

So I was going through youtube and found this video.

After doing some calculations, they are pretty alright.

[wvype]

If I'm going +Mag/-Lck M!Kamui with Lance Fighter secondary and marrying Aqua, would Shigure perform well in Dark Falcon? What skills would work best for him? Eastern Heart goes well with his personal, and I'm probably passing down Voice of Peace from Aqua. Unsure about Kamui- maybe Breaking Sky? Should I take him through Holy Lancer for Lancefaire, and also Defence Seal from Lance Fighter?

[Wayward Alchemist]

Mozume!Tiamo@Falcon Warrior

[0/1/4/0/1/4/-2]

-LoD

-Extravagance

-Agressor/Perscient Victory (DLC/S Kisaragi)

-Easy Life/Astra (IDK how many units there are in a PvP battle, if there are enough to justify needing 7 turns to restock GCs, if not, Astra is there because iirc you still get the damage boosts, but instead of hitting once, you hit FIVE TIMES)

-Geelfurse

With a Brave Lance equipped, as long as she does 1 point of damage she will be guarenteed to kill ANYTHING IN THE GAME. Basically, with LoD, Extrav, Agressor/Perscient, and her personal, she will do from 76 to 82 damage, without factoring the 36 she will be doing by herself (cap+ 8mt Brave Lance). You'd have to stock her up on Golden Coins before battle, though, but she will hardly need the 5 Golden Coins.

[astrophys]

So following up on the video that Azz01 posted a link to…

For those who don't want to take the time to have to watch the video to get the pairings, this is what they used:

Pairings listed in spoiler box. I'll also briefly comment. Again, these aren't my pairing ideas, but someone else's (although there is some overlap)

1. Harold/Arthur and Kagerou

I'm not sure if the added classes really have synergy with each other (Harold: Figher/Cavalier/Ninja; Kagerou: Ninja, Spellcaster, Fighter; Lutz: Wyvern, Fighter, Ninja), but I suppose it gives good STR mods and growths to Lutz and Kagerou could pass down a Spellcaster skill (like Breaking Sky)

EDIT: Oh, Lutz gets Snake Venom and Deadly Breath! That might be what they were going for… so he gets to deplete 40% of enemy HP that way.

2. Marx/Xander and Mozume

I hadn't thought of this one, but it does give Mozume a class in which she can use Lance Rank (Cavalier; Mozume: Villager/Bowman/Cav). Xander gets Cav/Wyvern/Bowman. I'm not sure how helpful that would be to Xander (although I suppose Soar or Sun God could have some applications). Mozume patches up Seigbert's speed mod; she does stick him with -3 RES, but has better growth than Charlotte would have given him. And she can give him Aptitude. Siegbert is Cavalier/Wyvern/Villager, so there is a bunch of lance rank access (all Cav classes, Wyvern Lord, all Villager classes).

3. Odin and Elise

I had this one in my list myself. It makes sense; I agree with it.

4. Cyrus/Silas and Camilla

I hadn't thought of this one before.. let see: Silas: Cav/Merc/Wyvern. Camilla: Wyvern/Dark/Cav. Sophie: Cav/Merc/Wyvern. Wyvern does offer Str+2, Cut Through, Rally Defense, Swordbreaker, Deadly Breath, and Overbearing. Overbearing is a pseudo-faire skill (the same damage increase, just a different condition). Camilla gets a non-Vengeance proc (with low HP Emblem and less ability to use Rescue and less effective Nosferatu, I'm not sure how useful Vengeance will be this time). Namely, she gets Luna.

5. Leon and Sakura

I agree with this one and already have discussed it.

6. Ryouma and Setsuna

So, this one's obviously trying to stack speed (+5 speed mod) and will preserve the -2 DEF/RES on Shinonome… Ryouma: Samurai/Pegasus/Bowman; Setsuna: Bowman, Ninja, Samurai…. Shinonome: Lancer, Samurai, Bowman…. I suppose that it gives Ryouma more strikes (Raven Strike, as well as player-phase prescient victory). Setsuna gets access to three faires (Bow, Kunai, and Sword) and classes that use them Holy Bowman/GKW/Puppeteer for Bow, Ninja/Puppeteer/Elite Ninja for Kunai; Elite Ninja and the Samurai tree for Swordfaire. Shinonome also gets three faires (trading out Kunaifaire for Lancefaire).

7. Takumi and Oboro

Oboro gets to be with her crush. Takumi actually cannot benefit from Oboro's marriage seal class, as he already has her Lance, although Oboro can get Takumi's Bowman (and she'd actually get both faires for the GKW, as well as simply getting stuff like Prescient Victory, Soar, or Sun God). More interestingly, that Takumi already gives Kisaragi the Lance Fighter tree means that Oboro can pass down Herb Merchant, which could allow for a Copycat Kisaragi (via the Puppeteer promotion). And Oboro could get Bowfaire for use in her Herb tree, as all of those classes use Bows. Seems like a fine pairing for Kisaragi and Oboro if one's okay with Takumi missing out on his marriage seal class.

8. Flannel and Charlotte

This yields huge attack power. But the interaction of the marriage seals is a bit shaky… Garou/Fighter and Fighter/Rod Knight… Velour is Garou/Fighter/Rod Knight. Huge attack, but I'm not sure this is the idea choice. Of course, sometimes sacrifices must be made for other pairings.

9. Benoit and Rinkah

Combination of two defensive characters… +6 DEF. Rinkah's + SPD offsets Ignis' speed penalties, and she has good speed and DEF growths… although she does hurt his HP growth… Benoit: Knight/Fighter/Oni; Rinkah: Oni, Ninja, Knight. Both get the defense orientated tank class from the other faction. Benoit can use Axefaire in any of hist promoted classes, including Oni. Ignis share's Benoit skill. They do get Counter… not that that's a good skill. Rinkah gets Luna access.

10. Zero and Felicia

Outlaw/Dark/Rod; Rod/Mercenary/Outlaw, and Outlaw/Dark/Rod. Well, Outlaw does promote to Adventurer, which uses staves, so there is some commonality here. 5 Speed and +3 res, but -3 speed… This basically sticks Eponine into the role of a mage or staff bot (or Shining Bow user). Felicia does give her staff/mage classes (Maid/Strategist).

11. Nishiki and Hana

Very fast (+5 speed), very weak defenses (-3-2+1 = -4 Mod). Hana has good strength growths…. Fox/Spell/Samurai; Samurai/Priestess/Spell (can get Breaking Sky) and Fox/Spell/Samurai.

12. Lazward and Luna

Already discussed this in my posts

13. Asama and Effie

This was suggested to me earlier and has been discussed in this thread… so here's another person who liked it. +6 STR mod.

14. Hinata and Pieri

I've already discussed this one.

15. Jakob and Azura

I've already discussed this one.

16. Tsubaki and Hinoka

I've already discussed this one.

17. Saizou and Belka

Ninja/Samurai/Wyvern; Wyvern/Fighter/Ninja; Ninja/Samurai/Wyvern…. I suppose that this brings together Snake Venom and Deadly Breath on the father, mother, and son. Gurei will take a big speed penalty, but Elite Ninja is super fast to begin with, so he might be able to still squeak by. It might also let Belka switch into a higher speed class (Ninja) although she'll have to rebuild weapon ranks from scratch. But the 1-2 range of Kunai could work really well with her personal skill (of course, Revanent Knight Tomes also help with this), particularly because they can double.

18. Tsukuyomi and Nyx

I've already discussed this

19. Kaze and Orochi

The poster of the video basically said there were more magic mothers than magic children, and Midoriko does have a -STR mod coming in from Kaze, so they were trying to let Midoriko shift into an alternate magic role (its also basically pairing the spares). Midoriko doesn't have impressive magic on her own, although Orochi might let it become mediocre. Also, Kaze's speed mod salvages Orochi's negative speed mod. But Midoriko's speed growth is likely going to be brought really low by Orochi; she doesn't have an impressive growth to begin with… but it will be better than Orochi's.

Edited August 7, 2015 by astrophys

[Azz]

Actually Takumi does get Herb Merchant.

[astrophys]

Wait, really? But I thought that the initial reports were that in the case of someone's secondary being the primary of their partner they'd make a futile effort to grab that in their marriage seal and it would be a wasted marriage seal.

Takumi: Bowman; Lance Fighter

Oboro: Lance Fighter; Herb Merchant.

Are you SURE that Takumi grabs Herb Merchant? Were the initial reports of how this works wrong? Are you confused instead? Or is there a special exception for Takumi?

[Azz]

Wait, really? But I thought that the initial reports were that in the case of someone's secondary being the primary of their partner they'd make a futile effort to grab that in their marriage seal and it would be a wasted marriage seal.

Takumi: Bowman; Lance Fighter

Oboro: Lance Fighter; Herb Merchant.

Are you SURE that Takumi grabs Herb Merchant? Were the initial reports of how this works wrong? Are you confused instead? Or is there a special exception for Takumi?

I heard it from a user who has the game and married Takumi to Oboro.I am 100% sure Takumi gets Herb Merchant.

Also Harold gets Outlaw from A+ with Flannel.

[astrophys]

I see…. that's interesting. Can anyone else provide an extra level of confirmation?

That would make Oboro x Takumi a much better pairing if it was true. Two Wind God Bow Takumis….

On a different note, do all rallies trigger at once in this game when used like in Awakening?

If so:

Lazward X Luna; Lazward A+ w/Flannel

Lazward picks up Rally Speed from Luna and Rally Strength from Flannel. These combo with Azure Dance IF it counts as a rally command AND IF they all trigger at once…. +5 Strength and +5 Speed from this rally. He can also get Rally Skill if he really wants to.

[Azz]

I see…. that's interesting. Can anyone else provide an extra level of confirmation?

That would make Oboro x Takumi a much better pairing if it was true. Two Wind God Bow Takumis….

On a different note, do all rallies trigger at once in this game when used like in Awakening?

If so:

Lazward X Luna; Lazward A+ w/Flannel

Lazward picks up Rally Speed from Luna and Rally Strength from Flannel. These combo with Azure Dance IF it counts as a rally command AND IF they all trigger at once…. +5 Strength and +5 Speed from this rally. He can also get Rally Skill if he really wants to.

Yes Rallies stack alongside Azure dance.(Confirmed by the same user who confirmed the Takumi thing)

[astrophys]

Mozume with Flannel could be interesting….

She doesn't have nearly as high a STR mod as Charlotte gives, but she could grant Line of Death, which is worth a far larger damage bonus than the +3 STR of Charlotte.

Granted, Line of Death is an extremely risky skill to use, but perhaps a Brave Axe using Berserker Velour (4 strength mod, plus 40 STR Berserker, plus 5 damage from Axefaire, plus 10 damage from Line of Death; 59 attack before the weapon) would outweigh the damage of Charlotte!Velour (7 strength mod, plus 40 STR Bersker, plus 5 damage from Axefaire; 52 attack before the weapon).

Granted, Charlotte doesn't need to use a skillslot for this, but Mozume seems to offer a larger absolute total.

Moreover, Mozume can pass down either Prescient Victory (for 4 more damage per hit, 8 more in the first two hits of the Brave weapon) or Raven Strike (for improved accuracy to ensure your big strikes connect; relevant as the Brave Axes has a base 55 hit).

Brave Axe has 8 might… I think S-rank might be a WRB of +2 attack and +10 hit. So:

Line of Death/Axefaire Mozume!Velour: 69 Attack

Charlotte Velour: 62 Attack

But it gets better for Mozume!Velour, as she can use Extravagence…. that gives her a potential for 79 attack. This would be so strong that even a 44 DEF general (+4 DEF mod) would get killed before Pavise or weapon triangle effects are considered… 35 damage the first hit, 35 damage the second hit.

Raven Strike would improve accuracy… or Prescient Victory gives 83 attack with Extravagance or 73 attack without.

[HadesRayne]

I think it has already been said, but in case of Flannel x Charlotte,, I think I read somewhere that Charlotte gets Oni of all things by Marriage Seal...

I don't have the game, so I can't confirm.

[astrophys]

If that were true, that would be very interesting and then actually might make a very strong argument for that pairing for a Charlotte focused benefit…. she already gets a +20 Crit rate bonus against women from her personal. She gets +20 crit as a Berserker. Roundhouse can give her another +10 crit if she wants. Killer Axes could give her yet another +25 crit if she wanted (and quadruple damage crits rather than triple damage crits). And Ogre strike could be +20 crit when attacking. And then something from her skill.

Can anyone confirm or deny this?

I guess that Flannel probably doesn't get anything new, but who knows?

[Thor Odinson]

I think it's like, the faction counterpart or something, in the other thread. If not, Charlotte can always get Oni by A+ing Rinka, so she can get it either way.

Honestly I was thinking of a crit build for Rinka that looks like that Charlotte build, but instead of Killer Axe it's with Raven Strike (Through S Takumi, but I am also not above doing that one once and just buy it in the future if it's for pvp because I'm a person with no principle) counteracting Great Club's poor hit. (that 55 crit rate though)

She doesn't hit quite as hard as Charlotte, though. Wish Charlotte could have Oni and Bowman together without using MU, but it appears she doesn't have Mozume for an A+ partner.

[HadesRayne]

Although if I am correct, Flannel x Charlotte would free up Charlotte's buddy seal for someone else... You could by example A+ Pieri for Luna

Also, you can't have her buddy Rinka if you play Conquest...

[Thor Odinson]

Although if I am correct, Flannel x Charlotte would free up Charlotte's buddy seal for someone else... You could by example A+ Pieri for Luna

Also, you can't have her buddy Rinka if you play Conquest...

You could do the same by S ranking Marx though

so I mean

It's an option on IK though

Like I'm not saying it's inferior I'm just saying that Charlotte can get that option in multiple ways and probably worth considering as one of her build options anyway

Edited August 7, 2015 by Thor Odinson

[HadesRayne]

You're right.

Anyway, I have a question.

It's about Bifrost (rank S staff, usable only by maids and butlers, which resurrect the last character who died on the map)

Would it be worth it in PvP ?

[AstraSage]

I think it has already been said, but in case of Flannel x Charlotte,, I think I read somewhere that Charlotte gets Oni of all things by Marriage Seal...

I don't have the game, so I can't confirm.

Actually, Thanks to some Tests done by Carter, signs seem to point Charlotte would actually get Outlaw from marrying Flannel just like Arthur gets it from him as a Buddy.

To expand, it seems all the Non-Kamui Characters with Special Classes keep Hidden Sets of their own a la Azura (who gives Hinoka access to Rod Knight via Buddy Seal, as well as Tsubaki via Marriage Seal) that come into play with Class Overlap cases with their Secondary Trees while their Spouses/Buddy do some Seal Reclassing...

The only reason their Sets are not as noticeable as Azura's is because, unlike Singer, their Special Classes are inheritable; and outside that, there are few chances to cause Class Overlaps with all of them.

(To keep the List: Flannel with Charlotte and Arthur, Nishiki with Orochi and Tsukuyomi, Mozume with Takumi)

Edited August 7, 2015 by AstraSage

[Thor Odinson]

Somebody quickly pair up Flannel and Charlotte to check.

Only one way to really find out.

[mimasho]

Actually, Thanks to some Tests done by Carter, signs seem to point Charlotte would actually get Outlaw from marrying Flannel just like Arthur gets it from him as a Buddy.

To expand, it seems all the Non-Kamui Characters with Special Classes keep Hidden Sets of their own a la Azura (who gives Hinoka access to Rod Knight via Buddy Seal) that come into play with Class Overlap cases with their Secondary Trees...

Somebody quickly pair up Flannel and Charlotte to check.

Only one way to really find out.

whoo got Charlotte and Flannel married yesterday;

just checked, Charlotte gets Adventurer // Bow Knight from marriage seal !

[astrophys]

Okay, that's great to know.

Does Flannel get anything, or does he miss out?

[HadesRayne]

Well, I was wrong...

Good to know, nevertheless.