Unit Optimization Thread

[astrophys]

You know, if all of these characters have this sort of data available that dictates their replacement class, should perhaps this information be found in the game's data.

You know, just like how they eventual found an extra set of lines for character stats that eventually corresponded to personal pair up stats, wouldn't the data-dump also have this information imbedded within it if someone just knew where to look?

If someone could do this, then we could get all of that information at once.

[mimasho]

Okay, that's great to know.

Does Flannel get anything, or does he miss out?

You mean what Flannel gets through marriage seal with Charlotte ?

let me check...

Looks like hero and berserker !

edit: aasldfjs wait Velour gets maid !?? aaah interesting, interesting ~ * U *

Edited August 7, 2015 by mimasho

[astrophys]

So then Flannel gets nothing… Hero and Berserker are already available to him via Fighter, his secondary.

Flannel gets nothing, but Charlotte gets something from the marriage.

Velour getting maid makes sense; Charlotte's secondary is Rod Knight, which promotes to maid. She would pass it down to Velour.

[Landmaster]

Wouldn't Flannel get Rod Knight and Charlotte get nothing?

[astrophys]

Flannel's primary is Garou and his secondary is Fighter.

Charlotte's primary is Fighter and secondary is Rod Knight.

A few characters have non-transferable class: Garou, Fox Spirit, Singer, etc.

It would seem to me that for transference purposes, characters use their secondary class as the class they transfer over TO OTHERS as if it was their primary, but use their own primary when determining what they receive from others.

So Flannel's primary is Garou, and he looks at Charlotte's primary and sees that it is Fighter, which is an inheritable. He grabs Fighter as the marriage seal class, but that's something he already has anyways, so its useless.

But Charlotte has Fighter and then Rod Knight. Flannel's Garou is uninhabitable, so it actually starts by comparing his Fighter against Charlotte's Fighter. These match, so the rule of getting the secondary comes into play. Except due to the earlier reversal, it treats Garou as if its the secondary for the purposes of Charlotte marriage sealing. Its not inheritable, so the game generates a replacement class. Then she gets given Outlaw instead.

That's my understanding.

[AstraSage]

Flannel's primary is Garou and his secondary is Fighter.

Charlotte's primary is Fighter and secondary is Rod Knight.

A few characters have non-transferable class: Garou, Fox Spirit, Singer, etc.

It would seem to me that for transference purposes, characters use their secondary class as the class they transfer over TO OTHERS as if it was their primary, but use their own primary when determining what they receive from others.

So Flannel's primary is Garou, and he looks at Charlotte's primary and sees that it is Fighter, which is an inheritable. He grabs Fighter as the marriage seal class, but that's something he already has anyways, so its useless.

But Charlotte has Fighter and then Rod Knight. Flannel's Garou is uninhabitable, so it actually starts by comparing his Fighter against Charlotte's Fighter. These match, so the rule of getting the secondary comes into play. Except due to the earlier reversal, it treats Garou as if its the secondary for the purposes of Charlotte marriage sealing. Its not inheritable, so the game generates a replacement class. Then she gets given Outlaw instead.

That's my understanding.

Pretty much covers most of what needs to be known, but to sum it up:

When Flannel is the active part of using a Marriage/Buddy Seal, his Garou Class is used for the Logic check, hence why he doesn't get nothing new from Fighters.

When instead Flannel is the passive part, his Fighter Tree is the one used as a base for said check, so Fighters get Outlaw (from his extra set) in return while people with Fighter as their Secondary Tree get nothing.

Edited August 7, 2015 by AstraSage

[astrophys]

Now the only question is if we can generate a list of everyone's replacement classes…

EDIT: That, and what pair-up bonuses the children get, as well as how asset/flaw affects the Avatar's pair-up bonus.

Edited August 7, 2015 by astrophys

[AstraSage]

Now the only question is if we can generate a list of everyone's replacement classes…

EDIT: That, and what pair-up bonuses the children get, as well as how asset/flaw affects the Avatar's pair-up bonus.

About the first part: I've been working on revamping a Google Spreadsheets-based Maximum Stats Calculator to be able of generate everyone's Class Set with Inheritance and Marriage/Buddy Seals in account using the proper logic.

I still kinda need to know some more about Nishiki and Mozume's Class Overlap cases, as well as some Kamui-related Inheritance stuff before I can make it go live...

As for the second part, it could be done on a independent table but it would need a lot of finesse and understanding...

Edited August 7, 2015 by AstraSage

[EmperorArvis]

Whose the better mom for Ophelia between Elise and Orochi?

[astrophys]

We also need to have someone confirm the child growth formulae, now that I think of it…. my own calculations (based on watching YouTube videos of children child sealing from 20/0 to 20/18, seem to be roughly indicative of Child's Actual Growths = (Child's Default Growths + Variable Parent's Default Growths)/2, but due to the possibility of RNG, only having a handful of samples, and potential additional higher order factors that I haven't realized, I cannot really say that I've confirmed it yet.

Edit:

I'd say Elise… she doesn't hurt Ophelia's speed and instead helps it. Also, Opehlia can A+ with Syalla for Spellcaster and thus Tomefaire. And seeing that A+ supports aren't reciprocal (you qualify for them at the same time, but just because character used their A+ on character B doesn't mean that character B needs to use their A+ on A), Syalla is free to A+ support with someone else if she already got Dark Mage from another mother (like Nyx). That could let Syalla do something like A+ with Matoi and thus become a Swallow Strike Sorcerer as well (Nyx!Shara has a good speed mod, helping out the Sorcerer, and then Swallow Strike lets her double similarly fast units).

Elise also A+ supports with Aqua, who has Pegasus Warrior. This gives her Swallow Strike. It would be easy to pick up once promoted because Elise gets to keep her staves as a Falcon Warrior. Then she can give this to Ophelia and help her double. And then Ophelia is still free to marry a guy of her choice, having both Tomefaire and Swallow Strike for lots of powerful doubles.

Edited August 7, 2015 by astrophys

[Wayward Alchemist]

Whose the better mom for Ophelia between Elise and Orochi?

That depends on the build. Orochi!Ophelia crits like a boss (100% crit is not just possible, but easy), but needs Defensive Formation and Geelfurse to survive (Paper defense and takes a serious hit to Speed). Elise just makes her an above-average Sorcerer or Strategist, probably the most practical option in Nohr but not really the most optimal.

[HeoandReo]

I'm kind of curious as to what Nishiki and Mozume will give to their spouses/buddies now. It looks like that faction parallels only take place when it comes to child inheritance. So in this case, Flannel technically gets a set of Garou/Fighter(Outlaw), kind of like Azura's Singer/Pegasus(Rod Knight). The special classes are throwing a big monkey wrench in this thing.

Oy, as if the faction parallel system wasn't complicated enough already...

[mimasho]

Alright, recruited Elise!Ophelia (which was a royal pain) and I just decided to have tomefaire and astra passed down...

and snagged myself a dark falcon scroll from the DLC for her, so she's good to go !

On a sidenote, I have some leftover units whom I'm not sure how to pair up;

The fathers left are Suzukaze, Saizou, Zero, Asama, Benoit, Zero, Harold, and Joker.

Potential mothers left are Pieri, Rinka, Kazahana, Kagerou, Sakura, Mozume, Felicia, and Orochi.

I also have Tsukuyomi and Nyx on hold; I'm planning on S ranking those two, but I'd be willing to separate them if they're better off with others !

my priority goes to Midoriko, Grey, Eponine, Mitama, and Deere; the rest of the children units there's a chance I won't even be picking them up.

So far, I've thought about Felicia!Midoriko, Orochi!Grey, and Pieri!Eponine (the only other option he has is Mozume) but I'm really not sure on the others ; A ;

I'm also open to the idea of leaving some couples unmarried. Like Sakura.

(she's really strong and I use her all the time, but it's awkward marrying her to someone so much older like Saizou or Asama lol)

[HadesRayne]

I was busy loafing around on tumblr when I saw a post about this whole marriage seal thing.

The poster stated that they had Cavalier Kamui maried off to Marx/Xander

And which class does Marx get by Marriage seal ?

For some reason, Ninja.

[Ebony]

Alright, recruited Elise!Ophelia (which was a royal pain) and I just decided to have tomefaire and astra passed down...

and snagged myself a dark falcon scroll from the DLC for her, so she's good to go !

On a sidenote, I have some leftover units whom I'm not sure how to pair up;

The fathers left are Suzukaze, Saizou, Zero, Asama, Benoit, Zero, Harold, and Joker.

Potential mothers left are Pieri, Rinka, Kazahana, Kagerou, Sakura, Mozume, Felicia, and Orochi.

I also have Tsukuyomi and Nyx on hold; I'm planning on S ranking those two, but I'd be willing to separate them if they're better off with others !

my priority goes to Midoriko, Grey, Eponine, Mitama, and Deere; the rest of the children units there's a chance I won't even be picking them up.

So far, I've thought about Felicia!Midoriko, Orochi!Grey, and Pieri!Eponine (the only other option he has is Mozume) but I'm really not sure on the others ; A ;

I'm also open to the idea of leaving some couples unmarried. Like Sakura.

(she's really strong and I use her all the time, but it's awkward marrying her to someone so much older like Saizou or Asama lol)

You could also go Felicia!Eponine to nudge her a bit more magical, Mitama gets a better strength mod from her dad so possible Kagerou, and for Midoriko... hmm... that one I'm not so sure on. Pieri could be good for Harold though.

[Azz]

Alright, recruited Elise!Ophelia (which was a royal pain) and I just decided to have tomefaire and astra passed down...

and snagged myself a dark falcon scroll from the DLC for her, so she's good to go !

On a sidenote, I have some leftover units whom I'm not sure how to pair up;

The fathers left are Suzukaze, Saizou, Zero, Asama, Benoit, Zero, Harold, and Joker.

Potential mothers left are Pieri, Rinka, Kazahana, Kagerou, Sakura, Mozume, Felicia, and Orochi.

I also have Tsukuyomi and Nyx on hold; I'm planning on S ranking those two, but I'd be willing to separate them if they're better off with others !

my priority goes to Midoriko, Grey, Eponine, Mitama, and Deere; the rest of the children units there's a chance I won't even be picking them up.

So far, I've thought about Felicia!Midoriko, Orochi!Grey, and Pieri!Eponine (the only other option he has is Mozume) but I'm really not sure on the others ; A ;

I'm also open to the idea of leaving some couples unmarried. Like Sakura.

(she's really strong and I use her all the time, but it's awkward marrying her to someone so much older like Saizou or Asama lol)

Hmmm.Well Suzukaze, I recommend marrying him to Orochi.I know it sounds bad at first but, you could make a really good Shining Bow user out of her which would fix her screwed Str mod.Sakura is also an option though you don't get Breaking Sky naturally.

Saizou can go with Kagerou.They make an amazing Gurei and also help each other a lot.(I also helps with there past that I ship them hard core).Orochi could also work, allowing Gurei to do more then just be a Jounin.Zero should probs go Felicia or Pieri.Felicia for a more Mag, Shining Bow user(Like Mido) or Pieri for more offensive stuff.Also Luna helps.Mozume can work too and you can pass down Bowfaire but Mozume is better for others.Asama can go with Kazahana.They have gret mods together and Mitama is an offensive beats.Mozume can also work if you don't need Astra or have other means to get it for Mitama but otherwise, Kazahana all the way.Benoit and Rinka are probs your best option.Honestly Belka is better but Rinka is a close second.She makes a great tank out of Ignis so yeah.Harold could go Kagerou or Pieri.If you plan on marrying Sakura to Suzukaze, then use Kagerou!Lutz.If not, marry Zero to Felicia and Harold to Pieri.It is a great pairing IMO.Finally Joker.Kagerou or Mozume could work.I recommend Kagerou however.She gives great stuff to Dia and is just great for him.Normall I would recommend Aqua but eh.

Ultimately, I recommend:

Suzukaze x Sakura/Mozume(Depending on who you want left over

Saizou x Orochi

Zero x Felicia

Asama x Kazahana

Benoit x Rinka

Harold x Pieri

Joker x Kagerou

If you need me to, I can go more in dept about these specific pairings.

[Wayward Alchemist]

I was busy loafing around on tumblr when I saw a post about this whole marriage seal thing.

The poster stated that they had Cavalier Kamui maried off to Marx/Xander

And which class does Marx get by Marriage seal ?

For some reason, Ninja.

Ninja is the Faction Class Paralell for Cavs, because... Reasons. Saizou/Kaze vs. Pieri/Silas I guess?

[Azz]

Base on that Cav->Ninja thing, here are my guesses for faction parallels:

Cavalier<->Ninja

Knight<->Lance Fighter

Mercenary<->Samurai

Axe Fighter<->Oni

Outlaw<->Bowman

Dark Mage<->Spellacaster

Rod Knight<->Priest/Prietess

Wyvern Rider<->Pegasus Warrior

Leaving only Villager and Herb Merchant without parallels.But then again they might as well be neutral faction classes considering the only characters who start out in them are route neutral.

Edited August 8, 2015 by Azz01

[mimasho]

You could also go Felicia!Eponine to nudge her a bit more magical, Mitama gets a better strength mod from her dad so possible Kagerou, and for Midoriko... hmm... that one I'm not so sure on. Pieri could be good for Harold though.

mm I plan to keep Eponine in the Adventurer line ~

but thanks ! I'll keep these in mind ! * U *

Hmmm.Well Suzukaze, I recommend marrying him to Orochi.I know it sounds bad at first but, you could make a really good Shining Bow user out of her which would fix her screwed Str mod.Sakura is also an option though you don't get Breaking Sky naturally.

Saizou can go with Kagerou.They make an amazing Gurei and also help each other a lot.(I also helps with there past that I ship them hard core).Orochi could also work, allowing Gurei to do more then just be a Jounin.Zero should probs go Felicia or Pieri.Felicia for a more Mag, Shining Bow user(Like Mido) or Pieri for more offensive stuff.Also Luna helps.Mozume can work too and you can pass down Bowfaire but Mozume is better for others.Asama can go with Kazahana.They have gret mods together and Mitama is an offensive beats.Mozume can also work if you don't need Astra or have other means to get it for Mitama but otherwise, Kazahana all the way.Benoit and Rinka are probs your best option.Honestly Belka is better but Rinka is a close second.She makes a great tank out of Ignis so yeah.Harold could go Kagerou or Pieri.If you plan on marrying Sakura to Suzukaze, then use Kagerou!Lutz.If not, marry Zero to Felicia and Harold to Pieri.It is a great pairing IMO.Finally Joker.Kagerou or Mozume could work.I recommend Kagerou however.She gives great stuff to Dia and is just great for him.Normall I would recommend Aqua but eh.

Ultimately, I recommend:

Suzukaze x Sakura/Mozume(Depending on who you want left over

Saizou x Orochi

Zero x Felicia

Asama x Kazahana

Benoit x Rinka

Harold x Pieri

Joker x Kagerou

If you need me to, I can go more in dept about these specific pairings.

I'm fine with leaving Sakura or Mozume alone, but if I wanted Great Merchant enclass for Midoriko, which parent would she be better off with ?

And how viable is she as a maid ? I've been heavily considering Felicia as her mother mainly for that prospect ; u ;

I also plan on having Adventurer as an endclass for Eponine, so I'm not worried about her having a decently high magic stat and would prefer an offensive one.

Saizou x Orochi, Joker x Kagerou, Asama x Kazahana, and Benoit x Rinka sound good though !

If you can go in depth for Midoriko and Eponine's parent pairs, that would be much appreciated ! ; U ;

(I'm also fine with leaving Harold unmarried or with Mozume if I go Felicia!Mido and Pieri!Eponine)

but basically, Great Merchant Sakura!Midoriko vs. Felicia!Midoriko

and Adventurer Felicia!Eponine vs. Pieri!Eponine ~

haha yeah I married Belka with Cyrus really early on b/c Hoshido husband and Nohr wife

but now I'm only slightly regretting it b/c Sophie is not pulling her weight as a dread fighter ; u ; oh well xD

Edited August 8, 2015 by mimasho

[AstraSage]

mm I plan to keep Eponine in the Adventurer line ~

but thanks ! I'll keep these in mind ! * U *

If I can put my two cents: there's nothing wrong if Eponine is a bit Magic-oriented even when your goal is to make her an Adventurer because she will always have access to the Magic-based Shining Bow...

[Azz]

No problem.(Keep in mind all these mods have +1 to each of them.This is just an estimation and may be wrong)

Sakura!Midoriko@Greta Merchant

-1 Str/+3 Mag/+2 Skl/+5 Spd/-1 Luk/-1 Def/+2 Res

65 Hp

32 Str

28 Mag

31 Skl

33 Spd

31 Luk

32 Def

32 Res

Felicia!Midoriko@Great Merchant

-3 Str/+3 Mag/+3 Skl/+5 Spd/-1 Luk/-1 Def/+ 3 Res

65 HP

30 Str

28 Mag

32 Skl

33 Spd

31 Luk

32 Def

33 Res

As you can see not much difference.Really this pair realizes completely on Eponine.If you are going ths route with Mido, regardless of mother you will want to use Shining Bows and at least have the following skills:Bowfaire(Obtainable from S rank Kisaragi or A+ Kanna who has Bowman as a secondary), Astra(From Suzukaze as inheritance or Felicia who A+ ranked Kazahana or S rank Hisame or A+ Kanna who has Samurai as a secondary) and Luna(From Felicia who A+ ranked Pieri or A+ Kanna with Cavalier/Knight as secondary).

Felicia!Eponine@Adventurer

-3 Str/+3 Mag/0 Skl/+5 Spd/+1 Luk/0 Def/+3 Res

50 HP

24 Str

34 Mag

27 Skl

39 Spd

28 Luk

25 Def

37 Res

Pieri!Eponine@Adevemturer

0 Str/+1 Mag/-1 Skl/+5 Spd/+1 Luk/-1 Def/+4 Res

50 HP

27 Str

32 Mag

26 Skl

39 Spd

28 Luk

24 Def

38 Res

Really, Pieri has nothing over Felicia.Adventurers are Mag focused units, who were made to use Shining Bows(Which I believe there is is three buyable).Just based on max stats alone, Felicia takes the cake and eats it(And may die if she made it).So yeah, I would go Sakura!Mido and Felicia!Epo.Recommended skills for Epo are pretty much the same as Mido.Though some may be harder to get then others.

I can go more thorough if needed but now I need to sleep.XD

[mimasho]

If I can put my two cents: there's nothing wrong if Eponine is a bit Magic-oriented even when your goal is to make her an Adventurer because she will always have access to the Magic-based Shining Bow...

aah yeah, I just meant that it wasn't a huge priority for me ; u ;

No problem.(Keep in mind all these mods have +1 to each of them.This is just an estimation and may be wrong)

Sakura!Midoriko@Greta Merchant

-1 Str/+3 Mag/+2 Skl/+5 Spd/-1 Luk/-1 Def/+2 Res

65 Hp

32 Str

28 Mag

31 Skl

33 Spd

31 Luk

32 Def

32 Res

Felicia!Midoriko@Great Merchant

-3 Str/+3 Mag/+3 Skl/+5 Spd/-1 Luk/-1 Def/+ 3 Res

65 HP

30 Str

28 Mag

32 Skl

33 Spd

31 Luk

32 Def

33 Res

As you can see not much difference.Really this pair realizes completely on Eponine.If you are going ths route with Mido, regardless of mother you will want to use Shining Bows and at least have the following skills:Bowfaire(Obtainable from S rank Kisaragi or A+ Kanna who has Bowman as a secondary), Astra(From Suzukaze as inheritance or Felicia who A+ ranked Kazahana or S rank Hisame or A+ Kanna who has Samurai as a secondary) and Luna(From Felicia who A+ ranked Pieri or A+ Kanna with Cavalier/Knight as secondary).

Felicia!Eponine@Adventurer

-3 Str/+3 Mag/0 Skl/+5 Spd/+1 Luk/0 Def/+3 Res

50 HP

24 Str

34 Mag

27 Skl

39 Spd

28 Luk

25 Def

37 Res

Pieri!Eponine@Adevemturer

0 Str/+1 Mag/-1 Skl/+5 Spd/+1 Luk/-1 Def/+4 Res

50 HP

27 Str

32 Mag

26 Skl

39 Spd

28 Luk

24 Def

38 Res

Really, Pieri has nothing over Felicia.Adventurers are Mag focused units, who were made to use Shining Bows(Which I believe there is is three buyable).Just based on max stats alone, Felicia takes the cake and eats it(And may die if she made it).So yeah, I would go Sakura!Mido and Felicia!Epo.Recommended skills for Epo are pretty much the same as Mido.Though some may be harder to get then others.

I can go more thorough if needed but now I need to sleep.XD

uuu thanks for the help !! * U *

alskfjsd yeah, Felicia!Eponine is clearly better unfortunately for me ~

I have all the shining bows on Sakura, I believe, but I can always get more in the DLC ; u ;

but ugh now I'm really conflicted because this is very convincing...

Thanks so much for explaining though, this is more than enough ~

Please get in some well needed rest ! * U *

[Wayward Alchemist]

Besides marrying Felicia/RK Femui and Logbook, is there any way for Xander to get Tomebreaker?

[Azz]

Besides marrying Felicia/RK Femui and Logbook, is there any way for Xander to get Tomebreaker?

Sadly no.They are the only ways as he A+s no one with Rod Knight but Leon but he gives him Dark Mage.And he can't marry Elise or Flora and all the girls who do have Rod Knight as their secondaries give Xander their primaries since there is no character with Cavalier/Rod Knight class set.

[BurningCandy]

Hi. Even thought I don't have the game, I was thinking of my Avatar's stats and wanted to see how good/bad she would be...

Femui

1st Class: White Blood

2nd Class: Dragon Rider (Should I take Peg Warrior instead? Or something else?)

+Luck, -Res (Is lucky, thickheaded)

Skills

Personal Skill (Charm... Charisma.... something like that.)

Cut Through (if Dragon Rider gets it)

Deadly Breath (if Dragon Rider promotes to Revenant Knight)

I also was thinking about Tsubaki...

Since his Skill and Defense have 50 and 45 respectively, as their growths, a class that takes advantage of those would be good. Skill means good crit/hit chances and Defense means tankiness.

Obviously he will have to rely mainly on his Str, since his Magic isn't that great.

Since I'm likely to only get Hoshido, maybe marrying Oboro would be good for him.

This passes on Lancer, which can promote to Holy Lancer.

The other option for him is Setsuna, which would give Bowman/Holy Bowman to him. I personally think he would make a good archer, with his Skill/Def growths.

Does the F!Avatar pass on her secondary class?