Espinosa Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 GG Thanks for hosting this speedy match Horace. My conclusion - 1st Gen is pretty offence-based owing to the poor availability of Renewal, though maybe a Sorc-infested team would show completely different results. Perhaps hyper offensive ways of playing 2nd Gen exist as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elieson Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 TURN 10B VS perfect hit id hit that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmine Sword Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 GG Espinosa. And now to confirm your suspicions: Carmine: Luna, Axefaire, Hit Rate +20, Hex, Swordbreaker Chrom: Aether, Luna, Bowfaire, Hit Rate +20, Charm Emmeryn: Renewal, Tomefaire, Speed +2, Demoiselle, Bond Gaius: Sol, Swordfaire, Lucky 7, Avoid +10, Axebreaker Stahl: Luna, Swordfaire, Hit +20, Avoid +10, Resistance +10 Most of my guys had weapons that are effective against armors, which then turned out to be useless because of Conquest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Horace Posted July 7, 2015 Author Share Posted July 7, 2015 (edited) The most meta thing is to run general walhart without conquest. (Espinosa had conquest here, but...) Honestly most of Walhart's other skills kinda suck though. Edited July 7, 2015 by General Horace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonymousSpeed Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 'Tis a lot of hit boosts. enough damage, perfect hit, lolcrit Oh and lethality proced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmine Sword Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 What if it turned out that Walhart didn't have Conquest the whole time? Mindgames. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonymousSpeed Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 That would be pretty mind game. I mean, too bad his skills aren't great apparently, the only person with Conquest is Ephraim and I don't think he's usable in any current meta. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elieson Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 Luna, 2 breakers, Res+10 and Pavise make a pretty ferocious (and hard to tell that he doesn't have conquest) Walhart. Granted that's about all he has, sans Str+2/Def+2, but still Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmine Sword Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 Does this mean that Conquest mindgames are going to become a thing now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonymousSpeed Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 (edited) Luna, 2 breakers, Res+10 and Pavise make a pretty ferocious (and hard to tell that he doesn't have conquest) Walhart. Granted that's about all he has, sans Str+2/Def+2, but still Huh, that's a nice idea, I might steal it. This meta is actually kind of interesting, everyone is loosing huge chunks of HP all the time and the limited renewal makes things a little more interesting, though I suppose we have a limit on it already. Does this mean that Conquest mindgames are going to become a thing now? Speaking legitimately, I don't know if that would actually be a decent strategy. Edited July 7, 2015 by AnonymousSpeed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draco Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 whoa it ends when the Robin dies? huh. gg espinosa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Horace Posted July 7, 2015 Author Share Posted July 7, 2015 Nah, Robin just happened to be his last unit alive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmine Sword Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 (edited) That was just coincidental. EDIT: Despite his massive armor, Horace still manages to be a successful ninja. Edited July 7, 2015 by Carmine Sword Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espinosa Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 I think there are too many other worthwhile things to mindgame for besides Walhart running Conquest. Espinosa: Swordfaire, Hit Rate+20, Vengeance, Galeforce, VantageWalhart: Conquest, Luna, Quick Burn, Swordbreaker, Resistance+10Miriel: Vengeance, Tomebreaker, Renewal, Demoiselle, BondGangrel: Axefaire, Lucky Seven, Tomebreaker, Vengeance, LifetakerYen'fay: Vantage, Swordfaire, Hit Rate+20, Swordbreaker, Astra -> needed Bowfaire pretty badly Ah, so Gaius's hit/avo came from Lucky 7 + Charm + Demoiselle (my Gangrel had the benefits of the same but no Charm)... I still calculated more than 13% so I dunno what Horace did differently. I see our appreciation for Hit Rate+20 is shared (which has never been submitted to me before... then again I'd hosted precisely ONE Awakening game). Hex + Hit Rate+20 on a unit specialising in 1-range brave attacks sounds pretty brutal, but I can't help but mourn the skills you otherwise sacrifice this way (and Robin has too many options). Walhart's skillset is decent enough. I wouldn't mind more space to run Pavise for example. Then again, I wasted Quick Burn on that build, but I thought Walhart would be doing most work during the early turns as Carmine and I are both too careful to attack each other in an offensive way. Turned out it was ridiculously fast-paced and all other units had better options to one-up the opposition at killing fast (though Yen'fay weakened but never quite killed... which would've come back to be really bad in a Renewal+Bond environment). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmine Sword Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 (edited) I was surprised that Gangrel could hit Gaius with an axe at all. I calculated that Gaius had 210 avoid against axes on turn 1 with Balmung equiped, so I thought that maybe Gangrel had Lucky 7 and Hex together in addition to Demoiselle. Man, if Gaius had Astra instead that 1st round would have turned out quite differently. Edited July 7, 2015 by Carmine Sword Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Horace Posted July 7, 2015 Author Share Posted July 7, 2015 i got... gangrels hit = 79 acc + 10 patience + 10 demoiselle + 20 lucky seven + 95 titania axe + 10 a rank = 224 vs gaius avo = 101avo + 15 wta + 5 charm + 10 demoiselle + 20 lucky seven + 50 breaker + 10 (+10 avoid skill) = 211 giving me 13 avoid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espinosa Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 Berserkers seem like a really vulnerable class due to predictability in weapon equipped (doesn't matter what axe it is really; Titania's Axe innate Patience didn't help apparently) and the potential to get doubled by Balmung and Yewfelle users at the very least (44 base speed is still quite doublable by promoted Myrm units with Speed+2 and/or high speed mods). I forgot about both Avoid+10 (didn't think anyone would care to equip THAT) and Balmung's +7 avo boost, so I guess that explains my confusion. Also, A rank bonus is lost completely when facing weapon triangle disadvantage... So that actually should've been 3 displayed hit! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elieson Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 i got... gangrels hit = 79 acc + 10 patience + 10 demoiselle + 20 lucky seven + 95 titania axe + 10 a rank = 224 vs gaius avo = 101avo + 15 wta + 5 charm + 10 demoiselle + 20 lucky seven + 50 breaker + 10 (+10 avoid skill) = 211 giving me 13 avoid A-rank is ignored if WTD, which it was. That 10 from A-rank should'nt have happeend Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Horace Posted July 7, 2015 Author Share Posted July 7, 2015 oh, didn't actually know that. Now I do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espinosa Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 Applies to damage and hit alike. Important enough to make a difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Horace Posted July 7, 2015 Author Share Posted July 7, 2015 yeah. Don't think it made a difference this game though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espinosa Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 There are generally so many viable weapon types that you don't see choices justified by WTA nearly as often as you do in other games' metas. Plus, -breakers and other skills providing more universal control over the hit/avo relations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draco Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 Nah, Robin just happened to be his last unit alive. uhhhh OH I misread the 0's for 8's. My bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmine Sword Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 Oh Horace, I just realized that on Turn 10, Gaius was equipped with a Seliph's Blade when he should have been equipped with a Balmung. I don't think this actually affects the outcome given the RNs, but it's just something to note for correctness' sake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Horace Posted July 8, 2015 Author Share Posted July 8, 2015 Yeah, you're right, I forgot he had attacked. But the RNs were all low enough for it not to matter, so you're right there too. Whoops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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