Yari Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Be my guest. If you want further inspiration, you are welcome to PM me and discuss. I have a few ideas in my mind, being a pseudo-fanfiction writer myself. I might just do that. If I ever publish this fanfic I'll be sure to give you credit for your help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gomez_Addams Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 @Taka-kun The big twist of Sigurd's death was definetly a good one, I will gladly admit that, but one thing bothers me about it: Why everyone trusted one of the most obviously evil bad guys in Manfroy. Granted, Alvis was blackmailed, but come on, Chagall and King of Verdane. Bigger question: why did Sigurd and his entire army trust Arvis when it was obvious he was leading them into a trap? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alazen Posted July 17, 2015 Author Share Posted July 17, 2015 One thing I have found very interesting is there are people here who lambast what is seen as too simplistic a tale of black and white morality, and yet there is so many here who put Genealogy on a pedestal, where especially the second part is even more simplistic. On one side, you have an empire who is kidnapping hundreds of children either to burn them alive to their dark god or brainwash them and oppress the common folk into near slavery and massacre anyone who resists and then there's the Liberation army who are all squeaky-clean and led by Celice, who is called everything short of the Messiah. I dunno, I would say the only real FE game to get morally grey is perhaps Radiant Dawn, if that. And that's only because Micaiah is leading the guys who were the bad guys from last game. The Judgral games have a tone that Fates isn't even close to matching. What with the lack of a situation like the 3rd Path where two serious enemy nations team-up against the ultimate mastermind behind it all. The empire was formed thanks to Sigurd's campaign where he warred around the continent. Seliph himself can have the continent under his watchful eye if all of the heirs and stewards die. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.C. Amigo Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 (edited) The tone was darker, but it still wasn't any more morally conflicting. It's still super-evil child murderers and enslavers VS pure-hearted good guy resistance in part two. Part one was different, but even then, most of the foes Sigurd faces were still bastards like Chagall, Sandima, Leptor, Langobalt, the Jungby lord whose name escapes me at the moment, Trabant, the likes. Even Alvis had a dick move in flaunting Diadora before he BBQ'd Sigurd. But what my point is, in pretty much every FE game, you don't really come across a bad guy from the Lord's home area. Be it Altea, Chalphy, or Pherae. So, Hoshido is not unique in this area. Edited July 17, 2015 by S.C. Amigo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taka-kun Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 (edited) Bigger question: why did Sigurd and his entire army trust Arvis when it was obvious he was leading them into a trap? Cause Sigurd is a hero. Heroes don't think before they act and his army obviously lacked the people to tell him straight. The tone was darker, but it still wasn't any more morally conflicting. It's still super-evil child murderers and enslavers VS pure-hearted good guy resistance in part two. Part one was different, but even then, most of the foes Sigurd faces were still bastards like Chagall, Sandima, Leptor, Langobalt, the Jungby lord whose name escapes me at the moment, Trabant, the likes. Even Alvis had a dick move in flaunting Diadora before he BBQ'd Sigurd. Sigurd, Quan and Eldigan were probably the most paragon guys in FE4 and they all died, while the people with questionable but effective methods survived and won, which was the point with generation one I believe. I think you are being unjust with Travant. While all the other lords did everything out of sheer ambition, like you know politicians, Travant seems to genuinely care for his country and wished for it to escape from its poverty. Edited July 17, 2015 by Taka-kun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.C. Amigo Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 (edited) You do have a point, Taka, but Trabant's characterization was bolstered with Thracia 776. In just Genealogy alone, he comes off as a straight-up bad guy. I'm sorry if it seems like I'm needlessly picking apart Genealogy to prove a point, as I do really like both Jugdral games. Edited July 17, 2015 by S.C. Amigo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taka-kun Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 You do have a point, Taka, but Trabant's characterization was bolstered with Thracia 776. In just Genealogy alone, he comes off as a straight-up bad guy. I'm sorry if it seems like I'm needlessly picking apart Genealogy to prove a point, as I do really like both Jugdral games. No need for apologies. Sometimes one just needs to play the part of a devil's advocate. You have a point that Travant wasn't that much explored in FE4 aside from being a jerk to his adoptive daughter and a cruel military commander- Maybe because we only viewed the war from Sigurd's and Seliph's viewpoint and both could be horribly judging of others, something like "good cannot comprehend evil" kinda trope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyborgZeta Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 The sheer bias towards Hoshido is pretty annoying. It's bad enough in Birthright, where the plot is so black-and-white that the game itself might as well be an early 20th Century cartoon. But that it affects Conquest too is just as bad. Despite some of the stuff Hoshido does in that route, they still come as the morally superior good guys. It's too bad, since despite its faults, I don't mind Conquest's plot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The DanMan Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 What was seemingly grey and grey ended up as white and very dark grey, IS going the national bias route. Fates' story in general just screams wasted potential. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thane Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 What was seemingly grey and grey ended up as white and very dark grey, IS going the national bias route. Fates' story in general just screams wasted potential. I really wish we get to see Mr. Kibayashi's draft one day so we can figure out just what Intelligent Systems kept, changed and removed entirely. I'm not even sure their nationality has anything to do with Hoshido coming across as perfect; the writer specifically said that he included good and bad people in both nations, yet there is not a single classic Hoshidian villain or even bad guy - at least not one of any importance. Something was clearly removed, and there are a plethora of reasons as to why they could've done that. More than anything, however, I want to see his draft for Conquest, seeing as it's so sloppily constructed that you can tell content has been forcibly removed, and there have most likely been several writers with different ideas involved. Mix in some executive meddling and violà, you've got yourself a mess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyanko Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 What was seemingly grey and grey ended up as white and very dark grey, IS going the national bias route. Fates' story in general just screams wasted potential. This is exactly how I feel. It's such a shame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The DanMan Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 (edited) I really wish we get to see Mr. Kibayashi's draft one day so we can figure out just what Intelligent Systems kept, changed and removed entirely. I'm not even sure their nationality has anything to do with Hoshido coming across as perfect; the writer specifically said that he included good and bad people in both nations, yet there is not a single classic Hoshidian villain or even bad guy - at least not one of any importance. Something was clearly removed, and there are a plethora of reasons as to why they could've done that. More than anything, however, I want to see his draft for Conquest, seeing as it's so sloppily constructed that you can tell content has been forcibly removed, and there have most likely been several writers with different ideas involved. Mix in some executive meddling and violà, you've got yourself a mess. Exactly. Hell, I'd even shell out a few bucks to oggle over the manuscript and see what changes happened where. But that probably will never happen (or if so not anytime soon). (I'm half seriously beginning to think he made that one tweet after his daughter got her hands on the game.) EDIT: And an interesting tidbit from the guy who runs the FE According to Japan Blog: you don't even find out why Nohr was invading Hoshido on the Nohr route, yet on the Hoshido one Elise picks up the exposition torch for a while and gives you that info. ...No words... Edited July 17, 2015 by The DanMan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mackc2 Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 Its a game made in japan where hoshido is very eastern style and comparable to Japan, of course they are going to make the representation of their country as the perfect place where everything is perfect and everyone is perfect. And of course they are going to make the western nation evil, corrupt and need of a revolution. Because Bias and stupid things such as national pride Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alazen Posted July 18, 2015 Author Share Posted July 18, 2015 (edited) Sigurd, Quan and Eldigan were probably the most paragon guys in FE4 and they all died, while the people with questionable but effective methods survived and won, which was the point with generation one I believe.Lenster's Fall and Thracia 776 said Quan weakened Manster through his belligerence towards Thracia along with how he maintained the tariffs. He wasn't so rosy.Anyway, I honestly wonder what Hydra's status was in the earlier drafts. Edited July 18, 2015 by Alazen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor Hardin Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 While avoiding too much spoilers myself, isn't the Shura Boss a rather Evil guy? I mean he has human skulls for a belt? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medeus Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 (edited) @Taka-kun The big twist of Sigurd's death was definetly a good one, I will gladly admit that, but one thing bothers me about it: Why everyone trusted one of the most obviously evil bad guys in Manfroy. Granted, Alvis was blackmailed, but come on, Chagall and King of Verdane. To be fair, Chagall was an idiot, it was pretty apparent from the get go that he was power hungry and Manfloy could play into that. I do see your point with the King of Verdane though. Anyway, I also see your point about how the Lord's country is usually played up positively, but there's a problem with that idea, Corrin can choose either side in this scenario and thus both would be his country. The way things are played up, it's not a case of "here's the hero, here's the villain," we're supposed to be able to choose either side and thus both should've had good points and bad points, not one or the other. Both of them should've been Sigurd's Army in this sense, yet Hoshido is made to look good at the expense of Nohr and that does reflect more poorly on Fates then it does other games since they rarely (if ever) try to positively characterize the other side. Edited July 18, 2015 by Medeus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alazen Posted July 18, 2015 Author Share Posted July 18, 2015 (edited) Chalphy is just one duchy among others. It and Edda are presented as the MINORITY of the six duchies in that they aren't at all complicit in Arvis and Manfroy's conspiracy. With both of them being targeted by the conspiracy. Hoshido doesn't come close. Edited July 18, 2015 by Alazen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor Hardin Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 I believe one of the Paladin bosses in the final map is from Edda. Any comment on the Kumagera character? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yari Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 I believe one of the Paladin bosses in the final map is from Edda. Any comment on the Kumagera character? Kumagera is a capturable boss that shows up in Nohr. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blade Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 (edited) Genealogy stuff aside, I just have the itch to write Fates fanfiction even though I don't even have the game or even a 3DS..... About those FE4 spoilers, goodie. I was about to play FE4 once I finish Shadow Dragon. This is what I get when I go to spoiler threads XD How would you rank the story compared to other FEs? I want to know opinions... Edited July 18, 2015 by Fanatic&Ecstatic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor Hardin Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 Kumagera is a capturable boss that shows up in Nohr. I'm aware of that, but what I mean, does he do any bad stuff like the Nohr bosses do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yari Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 I'm aware of that, but what I mean, does he do any bad stuff like the Nohr bosses do? He wants to kill Garon. Is that a bad thing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor Hardin Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 He wants to kill Garon. Is that a bad thing? He doesn't even do any other bad stuff? I mean Kumagera is wearing a necklace made out of human skulls, surely he must do some bad stuff? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yari Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 He doesn't even do any other bad stuff? I mean Kumagera is wearing a necklace made out of human skulls, surely he must do some bad stuff? Not that we know of. It's just his class outfit and it's not a necklace it's two skulls each in one side hanging in his pants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frelia Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 (edited) I really wish we get to see Mr. Kibayashi's draft one day so we can figure out just what Intelligent Systems kept, changed and removed entirely. I'm not even sure their nationality has anything to do with Hoshido coming across as perfect; the writer specifically said that he included good and bad people in both nations, yet there is not a single classic Hoshidian villain or even bad guy - at least not one of any importance. Something was clearly removed, and there are a plethora of reasons as to why they could've done that. More than anything, however, I want to see his draft for Conquest, seeing as it's so sloppily constructed that you can tell content has been forcibly removed, and there have most likely been several writers with different ideas involved. Mix in some executive meddling and violà, you've got yourself a mess. I really want to see those drafts too. There are 500 pages for all three routes so something must have happened for the story to be so iffy in some parts and for the morality to look more dark grey/black and white than grey particularly in the Hoshido route. The Nohr and IK paths seem to be in the grey area. And don't get me started on Conquest I will be sad about that path's plot for a while. Edited July 18, 2015 by Frelia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.