New ~Official Touhou Chat Thread~

[Balcerzak]

For an IN LNN to be considered a full-fledged LNN, all spells need to be captured. Even the bonus ones. Failing just one of those is a pain.

An IN LNN that went to Final A has 33 spells to capture, while Final B has 37.

I issue a qualified disagreement there. Yes, I would say getting hit on a last spell would DQ a run, but there's no reason to extend the requirement to all captures. Timing out spells should certainly be allowed, as you have not missed and you have not bombed. (Of course, I can't personally imagine many scenarios where a time out would be the choice you'd take rather than a capture, but by the letter of the challenge it fits.)

[Scarlet]

Which shot do you use for EoSD?

I keep it simple and generally use Reimu A for Lunatic because on Lunatic the stage portions honestly give me much more trouble than the bosses do, and having a homing shot helps in dealing with the stages, so... yeah.

Patchy's not very simple, since some of her patterns are genuinely difficult, like Emerald Megalith and Sylphae Horn.

And I'm telling you that's not the case if you rely on your reflexes more than on memorization. Sylphae Horn's bullets are random, but not unpredictable, and Emerald Megalith genuinely is a joke if you can see ahead a little to avoid getting walled. Reimu A doesn't have to deal with them either way, but it's not like I haven't given the other shot types at least a try. The only of Patchy's Stage 4 spells that has been known to give me some amount of trouble is Bury In Lake, and that's still easier than anything the Prismrivers throw at you, imo.

Prismrivers and IN Marisa are definitely easier than Patchy, while Aya is probably equal, if not a little harder.

Let's agree to disagree, then. IN Marisa's patterns in particular are ludicrously dense to the point some of them require almost Junko levels of precision to get through. (Hint: that's not a good thing)

...Killing Doll is terrifying. It can be a major annoyance to capture if Sakuya's movement RNG doesn't cooperate, and the pattern's denseness in conjunction with EoSD hitboxes make it even worse. It's considered one of the hardest spells in the game for good reason just because of how unpredictable it is, and some even consider it the hardest (cactu even says so, and he's the best EoSD player in the world perhaps).

What's wrong with EoSD's hitboxes? They're bigger than other games', yes, but it's still just a matter of learning them.

And not to discredit this cactu person, but just because he's "the best EoSD player in the world" doesn't mean his opinion is fact. Like any other human being, he may just have different strengths and weaknesses than somebody like me.

That said, yes, Killing Doll is kind of difficult, but I still don't see why it'd give you any significant trouble if you can NMNB everything else Sakuya throws at you. Sakuya is pretty twitchy in general. (I do agree that she's harder than Remilia, though.)

>Remilia

>one of the easiest Stage 6 final bosses on Lunatic

Hold on a sec. That's hardly true. Remilia's randomness in her patterns is what makes her one of the hardest final bosses. Vampire Illusion and Scarlet Gensokyo can wall you if they feel like it, Meister's very fast-paced and not trivial by any means, and even YDL can be nasty.

If you can't deal with randomness, yes. EoSD throws a lot of very random patterns at you, but that doesn't mean they're unpredictable - you just can't learn them the way you can memorize your way through a completely static pattern. Beyond that, though, they're definitely much easier than anything the later games throw at you, TD aside. Neither Vampire Illusion nor Scarlet Gensokyo will wall you if you pay attention and/or have good peripheral vision.

There's no way a final boss like Utsuho or Shinmyoumaru is easier than her.

That's precisely what I've been saying. :V

27 bombs is a lot, yeah. That's more than enough to get through the game with, especially since I doubt one would use all of them on every pattern in the game since the majority of spells in the first three stages are easy.

So what you're basically saying is that Touhou simply gives you a lot of bombs in general (which I don't disagree with).

That said, there's more to the game than just spellcards, you know? This may be my fault for not memorizing them, but I do need a couple of bombs for most games' last three stages (with some exceptions), and some bosses even have kind of nasty nonspells (which is particularly problematic in EoSD, PCB and IN since in those games bombs do next to no damage to nons).

while TD can also give a lot if you know where to trance and bomb.

Well, I guess if you count Trance as bombs (again, I don't disagree), then yes, even TD has more bombs than EoSD. That just further emphasizes my point.

Speaking of IN LNN being difficult...

[screenshot]

Getting all 37 caps is hard lol. I only managed 36 here...

I can't even do that on Normal... >_<

I issue a qualified disagreement there. Yes, I would say getting hit on a last spell would DQ a run, but there's no reason to extend the requirement to all captures. Timing out spells should certainly be allowed, as you have not missed and you have not bombed. (Of course, I can't personally imagine many scenarios where a time out would be the choice you'd take rather than a capture, but by the letter of the challenge it fits.)

ZM, go for it

Lunatic NMNB Pacifist, gogogo

Edited October 17, 2016 by Scarlet

[Magical Glace]

Memorizing things is easier than reacting fast, tbh.

[Scarlet]

Memorizing things is easier than reacting fast, tbh.

Depends on your strengths, I guess. I like to think I have pretty decent reflexes, so I prefer relying on those over spending time to memorize stuff unless I genuinely have no idea how to deal with a given pattern. It's worked for me on all Normal modes, all Hard modes except UFO's, and even MoF Lunatic.

[ZemZem]

I issue a qualified disagreement there. Yes, I would say getting hit on a last spell would DQ a run, but there's no reason to extend the requirement to all captures. Timing out spells should certainly be allowed, as you have not missed and you have not bombed. (Of course, I can't personally imagine many scenarios where a time out would be the choice you'd take rather than a capture, but by the letter of the challenge it fits.)

That's just the way IN is. It's harsh, but that's just the requirement. The Japanese go for full spell in their IN LNNs ideally, and the westerners consider an IN LNN with all spells captured is considered a true LNN. Now an LNN with failed spells is still an LNN. Just not the real deal.

I keep it simple and generally use Reimu A for Lunatic because on Lunatic the stage portions honestly give me much more trouble than the bosses do, and having a homing shot helps in dealing with the stages, so... yeah.

And I'm telling you that's not the case if you rely on your reflexes more than on memorization. Sylphae Horn's bullets are random, but not unpredictable, and Emerald Megalith genuinely is a joke if you can see ahead a little to avoid getting walled. Reimu A doesn't have to deal with them either way, but it's not like I haven't given the other shot types at least a try. The only of Patchy's Stage 4 spells that has been known to give me some amount of trouble is Bury In Lake, and that's still easier than anything the Prismrivers throw at you, imo.

Let's agree to disagree, then. IN Marisa's patterns in particular are ludicrously dense to the point some of them require almost Junko levels of precision to get through.

What's wrong with EoSD's hitboxes? They're bigger than other games', yes, but it's still just a matter of learning them.

And not to discredit this cactu person, but just because he's "the best EoSD player in the world" doesn't mean his opinion is fact. Like any other human being, he may just have different strengths and weaknesses than somebody like me.

That said, yes, Killing Doll is kind of difficult, but I still don't see why it'd give you any significant trouble if you can NMNB everything else Sakuya throws at you. Sakuya is pretty twitchy in general. (I do agree that she's harder than Remilia, though.)

If you can't deal with randomness, yes. EoSD throws a lot of very random patterns at you, but that doesn't mean they're unpredictable - you just can't learn them the way you can memorize your way through a completely static pattern. Beyond that, though, they're definitely much easier than anything the later games throw at you, TD aside. Neither Vampire Illusion nor Scarlet Gensokyo will wall you if you pay attention and/or have good peripheral vision.

That's precisely what I've been saying. :V

So what you're basically saying is that Touhou simply gives you a lot of bombs in general (which I don't disagree with).

That said, there's more to the game than just spellcards, you know? This may be my fault for not memorizing them, but I do need a couple of bombs for most games' last three stages (with some exceptions), and some bosses even have kind of nasty nonspells (which is particularly problematic in EoSD, PCB and IN since in those games bombs do next to no damage to nons).

Well, I guess if you count Trance as bombs (again, I don't disagree), then yes, even TD has more bombs than EoSD. That just further emphasizes my point.

ZM, go for it

Lunatic NMNB Pacifist, gogogo

ReimuA has the easiest Patchy fight, so I'm not surprised. Only tough thing she faces is Cromlech.

What you said about Sylphae Horn and Megalith is a 100% certified case of 'easier said than done'. Meanwhile Bury in Lake isn't that difficult, indeed. But the prismrivers' spells are jokes. The only one that isn't is the final.

Marisa's nons in IN are indeed very dense, but they're actually static, too. You can also kill the familiars with a good powered shot to make them easier on yourself.

EoSD hitboxes are pretty mean, but thankfully the game has a ton of macrododging instead of micro.

I think you need to try throwing in some Sakuya NMNB credits yourself. Killing Doll is significantly harder than everything else she throws at you.

I also think you should try throwing in some Remilia NMNB credits. What you're saying, again, just screams 'easier said than done'.

*harder, I mean. No way Okuu and Sukuna are harder than Remi. I typed that response when I was tired, gomen.

Yeah, there's more to the game than just spells. I'm just saying that games usually give you an adequate amount of bombs to use. Especially a game like MoF, which just throws power at you.

Yep, but 27 is still quite a lot.

Lunatic Pacifist NMNB? I'll pass tbh. XD

[Magical Glace]

Depends on your strengths, I guess. I like to think I have pretty decent reflexes, so I prefer relying on those over spending time to memorize stuff unless I genuinely have no idea how to deal with a given pattern. It's worked for me on all Normal modes, all Hard modes except UFO's, and even MoF Lunatic.

My reaction time is actually below average, so yeah, I definitely find memo easier than reacting on the spot.

[Scarlet]

What you said about Sylphae Horn and Megalith is a 100% certified case of 'easier said than done'.

The thing is that I have NMNB'd Lunatic Patchy before (mostly because I didn't have any bombs I could have used, but still), so I'm not just saying it, I have done it. :V

Granted, I've only NMNB'd her once or twice, but it's pretty rare for me to NMNB anything past Stage 3 in general. What destroys me the most is Stage 5. Not even Sakuya, just Stage 5.

But the prismrivers' spells are jokes. The only one that isn't is the final.

It's precisely the opposite for me, so I think I'll just stop taking you seriously at this point. :V

...just kidding, but really, I guess I'll just chalk it up to having different strengths and weaknesses.

Marisa's nons in IN are indeed very dense, but they're actually static, too. You can also kill the familiars with a good powered shot to make them easier on yourself.

Another example of the difference between memorization and reflex-based dodging, I guess.

I also think you should try throwing in some Remilia NMNB credits. What you're saying, again, just screams 'easier said than done'.

You're pretty funny. You know I haven't even 1cc'd the game on Lunatic.

Still, on my best run I managed to get from the beginning of the fight until near the end of Scarlet Gensokyo on 0 lives and 2 bombs (while having lost like 5 lives throughout Stage 5 prior), so I think that still counts.

*harder, I mean. No way Okuu and Sukuna are harder than Remi. I typed that response when I was tired, gomen.

They're not too tough, but Remi's definitely easier. (For me, anyway...)

Uncontainable Nuclear Reaction is just too much for me too handle (I generally bomb even the Normal version, for crying out loud) and Hell's Tokamak is literally hell because it lasts forever and I'm terrible at dealing with bullets at those weird angles.

For Sukuna, Shining Needle Sword is the bane of my existence (planned bomb even on Normal), and while You Grow Bigger is completely static, I still occassionally screw it up because the Lunatic version is extremely precise (especially if you're not Reimu).

Remi on the other hand doesn't have a single pattern that I can't deal with. That doesn't mean that I don't screw up every now and then, but that certainly still qualifies as easier than planned bombs in my book.

Yeah, there's more to the game than just spells. I'm just saying that games usually give you an adequate amount of bombs to use. Especially a game like MoF, which just throws power at you.

I'm not disputing that. All I've been saying is that while EoSD still gives you an "adequate" amount of bombs to use, it's nonetheless noticably stingier with resources than most other games in the series.

Lunatic Pacifist NMNB? I'll pass tbh. XD

Awww. :<

My reaction time is actually below average, so yeah, I definitely find memo easier than reacting on the spot.

And that's fine~

In fact, it's actually kind of cool that the games can be beaten in either style.

[Emeraldfox]

yeah I found utsuho to be harder than remi

and because of Orin you're pretty much doomed to always fight her with low resources.

Is Blazing Wheel really stupid on Lunatic? Or is it a different spell card she uses?

[Magical Glace]

Is Blazing Wheel really stupid on Lunatic? Or is it a different spell card she uses?

Nah, I think he means in stage 5.

[Emeraldfox]

Nah, I think he means in stage 5.

Oh, I see. I thought he meant midboss Orin in stage 6.

[ZemZem]

The thing is that I have NMNB'd Lunatic Patchy before (mostly because I didn't have any bombs I could have used, but still), so I'm not just saying it, I have done it. :V

Granted, I've only NMNB'd her once or twice, but it's pretty rare for me to NMNB anything past Stage 3 in general. What destroys me the most is Stage 5. Not even Sakuya, just Stage 5.

It's precisely the opposite for me, so I think I'll just stop taking you seriously at this point. :V

...just kidding, but really, I guess I'll just chalk it up to having different strengths and weaknesses.

Another example of the difference between memorization and reflex-based dodging, I guess.

You're pretty funny. You know I haven't even 1cc'd the game on Lunatic.

Still, on my best run I managed to get from the beginning of the fight until near the end of Scarlet Gensokyo on 0 lives and 2 bombs (while having lost like 5 lives throughout Stage 5 prior), so I think that still counts.

They're not too tough, but Remi's definitely easier. (For me, anyway...)

Uncontainable Nuclear Reaction is just too much for me too handle (I generally bomb even the Normal version, for crying out loud) and Hell's Tokamak is literally hell because it lasts forever and I'm terrible at dealing with bullets at those weird angles.

For Sukuna, Shining Needle Sword is the bane of my existence (planned bomb even on Normal), and while You Grow Bigger is completely static, I still occassionally screw it up because the Lunatic version is extremely precise (especially if you're not Reimu).

Remi on the other hand doesn't have a single pattern that I can't deal with. That doesn't mean that I don't screw up every now and then, but that certainly still qualifies as easier than planned bombs in my book.

I'm not disputing that. All I've been saying is that while EoSD still gives you an "adequate" amount of bombs to use, it's nonetheless noticably stingier with resources than most other games in the series.

Awww. :<

Ah, there's plenty of ways to make the Stage 5 portion easier on you. There are some safe routes you'd be able to look at and study.

And oh, very neat. ReimuA I assume?

I hope you're kidding. :P But I suppose it's different strengths and weaknesses, yeah. Always choose to fight Lyrica, though, since she has the easiest nons and personal spell.

Finish the job, imo! You're very close, and I'm sure you can reach SG with even more resources.

Okuu's first spell is obnoxious and the second spell can be scary, but they're the only two tough things in the fight, imo. Hell's Tokamak I like to do on the right hand side, and honestly, that's not too hard. Just focus on your hitbox. Okuu will always be above you, too. As for Shining Needle Sword, you just need a route for it.

EoSD does give less resources than other games, yeah.

[ZemZem]

1cc

[Emeraldfox]

I say I achieved a 1cc of PCB normal despite closing the game by mistake

[Zak Something]

Always choose to fight Lyrica, though, since she has the easiest nons and personal spell.

i thought which one you fight depends on what character you play as. unless there's something i'm missing.

[Magical Glace]

i thought which one you fight depends on what character you play as. unless there's something i'm missing.

For the second split, the fought sister is based on who received the most damage during the first collective spell.

The first two nons (before the first collective spell) are shot based though.

[ZemZem]

ZM do you have the replay to the no-UFO run you did?

Here you are, friendo: http://replays.gensokyo.org/download.php?id=41659

[ZemZem]

enjoy~

[Zak Something]

would anyone happen to know what the pixiv tag for the "how to draw touhou" meme girl is?

[Magical Glace]

10/10

[Scarlet]

Is Blazing Wheel really stupid on Lunatic? Or is it a different spell card she uses?

Some people dread it for the fact that the bullet lines actually begin to overlap on Lunatic, but if you don't let that throw you off, it's still the same rhythm-based card it is on all lower difficulties, just a bit more precise (and you have to do it unfocused). It can be unnerving, but it's really not that bad. In fact, the Hard mode version might actually be harder than the Lunatic version because iirc the bullets in that version move at a really weird speed that is too fast to get through focused, yet too slow to get through unfocused.

Ah, there's plenty of ways to make the Stage 5 portion easier on you. There are some safe routes you'd be able to look at and study.

I've actually done that before, but I have trouble replicating those. I simply need practice, but that's just not something I'm willing to do right now.

And oh, very neat. ReimuA I assume?

Yup.

Always choose to fight Lyrica, though, since she has the easiest nons and personal spell.

That's another issue I have with the Prismrivers - for a long time I had trouble telling them apart at all, but I still can't remember which patterns belong to which sister. :V

Finish the job, imo! You're very close, and I'm sure you can reach SG with even more resources.

Yeah, I probably could. I might give it another shot at some point, but right now I'm more motivated to tackle eXceed 3rd's and Deathsmiles' Extra Stages.

As for Shining Needle Sword, you just need a route for it.

Well, I don't have one, and I couldn't figure one out when I tried to practice it, either. :V

[Emeraldfox]

Some people dread it for the fact that the bullet lines actually begin to overlap on Lunatic, but if you don't let that throw you off, it's still the same rhythm-based card it is on all lower difficulties, just a bit more precise (and you have to do it unfocused). It can be unnerving, but it's really not that bad. In fact, the Hard mode version might actually be harder than the Lunatic version because iirc the bullets in that version move at a really weird speed that is too fast to get through focused, yet too slow to get through unfocused.

Huh, I see.

Yesterday:

"When I get home Imma play some Touhou~!"

-eats-

-tries to use the internet-

-falls asleep-

I played some Touhou alright

[Zak Something]

Emerald was fighting Doremy

I think it's just '2hu'

nopes, that's just the name that Touhoumon Purple's creator gave to her, searching 2hu on Pixiv returns 2 pages of normal touhou fanart. Including a pic of Cirno with her stomach cut open thats visible despite me having the age filters on. LOVELY. Edited October 18, 2016 by Zak Something

[Scarlet]

2cc'd deathsmiles~

Not bad!

I'm kind of at odds though as to where to go in the shmup genre though.

The only way I was able to progress as far as I did in touhou was because of how motivated I was to play it, but

I really am not sure if I can ever find that ridiculous amount of motivation to play another shmup at a competent level.

I played Ikaruga a while back, and I really could not summon up the effort to improve. I can't even put a label as to why, the game just felt like it didn't want me to play it. Like I tried to find enjoyment out of just figuring out the first 2 stages but I couldn't

so my options are sort of limited.

also touhou as a game has this sort of goofiness and light-heartedness that really helps to offset the ridiculous frustration present in it, so other shmups just kind of give off this personality of being just a dick.

it's weird.

If you're looking for another bright and cheery Bullet Hell, have you given QP Shooting Dangerous!! a try? Not only is it light-hearted and silly (Kyousuke for best Stage 2 boss), it also has a fairly forgiving difficulty, especially if you're good at the game's scoring system (you get an Extend every 2.5 million points and there's no cap). It also has a lot of replayability (it offers over 20 shot types, of which you pick a set of 3 to freely switch between during a run).

[Scarlet]

I lied it was actually a 3cc pls forgive me :(((((

What, why. xD

Besides, that's still better than me using 4 Continues on the Extra Stage alone. That place is evil. xD

Sometimes I underestimate how fun shmups can be when you don't play them seriously.

There's something almost relaxing about just shooting around and dodging stuff.

That's in fact mostly why I stopped bothering with Touhou Lunatic at some point: I simply wasn't having fun anymore~

Also.

Is there really any use it all to using the lock on feature?

I never really feel the need to use it, and not being able to move vertically suuuucks.

It's mostly used in advanced scoring as far as I'm aware. Every enemy type has a certain "weakness" shot that causes them drop higher-tier point items than they normally would. This can be either unfocused shots, focused shots, or lock-on. However, I too found lock-on to be pretty inconvenient to use, especially because it takes a significant amount of time to switch from one target to another, making it very poor at dealing with large amounts of enemies at once. It doesn't help that using lock-on actually drains your Item Counter over time.

It has some niche use in targeting enemies that sit directly above or below you a lot of the time. Personally, I use it against Tyrannosatan and pretty much nowhere else.

[Pull My Devil Trigger]

Tyrannosatan