Practical Pairings

[Minischew]

I've been seeing a lot of optimal pairings (e.g. which parents pass down the best mods), but I'm wondering if there are any practical pairings.

To exemplify: In Awakening, I always tried to marry Chrom and Olivia to get an optimized Lucina for my Streetpass team. But when I decided to do a lunatic runthrough, I ended up marrying Chrom and Sumia. My Chrom, for some reason, had ended up OP-- I assumed the RNG loved him-- and I needed him in many places to beat out the enemy. Naturally, I wanted Sumia to ferry him around, and I couldn't bear the opportunity cost of keeping him away from her simply to marry him to Olivia. I also needed Frederick in other places, so he couldn't be Chrom's personal ferry either.

(Now, I know that it's debatable whether or not Olivia or Sumia is the optimal marriage candidate for Chrom, but for the sake of argument, let's just say that it's Olivia.) Basically, I'm not asking for the optimal pairing like Chrom/Olivia, because I've found that mods in a lunatic runthrough are more or less irrelevant, but instead for a practical pairing like Chrom/Sumia. I'd like to know which pairings are practical, and produce decent children that can be placed on the team.

For instance, would it be a good idea to marry Kamui and Azura? You're going to have to employ Kamui in every single battle, and I'd imagine you'd use your refresher unit quite often as well. So given their early availability, and the fact that they create two children with one marriage, would that be a practical pairing that would facilitate the runthrough? (I doubt you'd get to use all your children, so I'm assuming that the loss of one child unit isn't that bad.)

As another example, would it be a good idea to get the royals hitched to one another in the IK Lunatic runthrough? Royals are generally stronger than other units, and since they're going to be employed quite often, I imagine it would be easy to build up support points between them. Besides, I doubt that a royal marriage could royally screw up a kid.

Or are there any pairings with nice pair-up synergy that would encourage them to get married? For instance, I've read on the Worst Units and Classes thread that Hinata and Kagerou give each other nice pair-up bonuses. In that case, would Hinata/Kagerou be a practical pairing for a Lunatic runthrough?

On a final note, would it be practical to marry Nishiki to a healer, given his personal skill?

Edited September 28, 2015 by Minischew

[CocoaGalaxy]

For myself, I choose units which I "prefer" to use. As such, unless it's absolutely necessary (and I guess I might find out), I won't be using units that I choose not to use (I have nothing against them, most of the time, and such)

So when it comes to pairings, I make do with what I choose

The game is a bit complicated due to a few factors

Personally, I would not use Azura. However, her singing ability is one of a kind, and as such, at times I might be "compelled" to use her, or it might even be outright necessary ("Might", or might not).

It also depends on what people value more, and the attack vs guard stance "debate", children, own personal choices, other "rules" (such as buying of skills, no point in reclassing for skills if you just buy everything online), the classes you want to get (this is a fairly major point for me), difficulty ("I like to discuss on lunatic", but not everyone plays lunatic, and such), playstyle, blah blah blah blah

I really have not sorted out who is marrying who yet because the whole thing is so gosh darn complicated

One thing I would add (whether or not it's relevant is another thing) is that, generally speaking, children are best joining later, because the earlier they join, the more susceptible they are to being screwed. Of course, it depends on the parents, and then you have other availability things. I haven't decided when I actually want to recruit them (and timing the recruitment, I have no idea. You could always just grind out the support points I guess)

I'm not really sure what to say though. For example, looking at the chart, Speed +1 is fairly common, but +2 and +3 are not nearly as common.

Then you also have the classes and what you really want in your pair up bonuses.

Edited September 28, 2015 by CocoaGalaxy

[Shephen]

Pairing Kamui with Azura is a pretty practical since its Azura's fastest pairing. Otherwise it either takes to long to pair her off or she isn't doing anything sitting in the back of Dual Guard. Kanna doesn't really get anything out of it, but Shigure really likes Dragon Fang.

In terms of synergy for pairings there are way to many. Just some obvious ones would be like Hana/Setsuna/Oboro with Silas/Hinata/Takumi/Saizou for the speed or Rinka/Setsuna/Oboro with Subaki/Hinata/Kaze for the str. Of course that is only me thinking of the male being the lead unit and there are way more combinations in terms of synergetic pairings.

[Ownagepuffs]

I've done a few different pairings in Hosh. Most of the time just pairing up who you are using works.

As stated above, patching deficiencies is appreciated. Silas and Takumi would like speed. Oboro would like speed. Someone like Saizou loves Bowmen bonuses to help get him off the ground. Orochi and Ricken love each other's bonuses. Hinoka likes Silas and Silas likes Hinoka. They both give each other good classes. Kaze/Rinka works since you'll be using it from pre route split.

Pairings are flexible.

[astrophys]

Who would you say is a practical pairing for Tsubaki? I'm personally biased to wanting to push for Hinoka x Tsubaki --> Hinoka!Matoi anyways, but I'm also interested in what people think are the practical options independently of this

Tsubaki gives +3 Spd and +3 Res as an non-promoted Pegasus Warrior and +4 Spd and +2 Spd if you make him a Samurai (although the latter isn't really practical, I'd guess, due to weapon rank issues).

You've already noted that Hinoka and Silas work well together. As for Hinoka and Tusbaki, I can see her +3 Spd helping Tsubaki's speed issues [although he DOES have Swallow Strike], but Hinoka's fast from what I understand and might not need his Spd as much herself…. Tsubaki's RES bonus would reinforce her already high RES growth/bases, but for Hinoka she'd cover a weakness… but her Pegasus doesn't boost Tsubaki's low strength… I think I've heard people mentioning Rinkah and Tsubaki for +4 Str to Tsubaki to boost his Swallow Strike damage output…

Hinoka doe shave a parallel seal Lance Fighter, which keeps weapon rank… that would be +2 Str, +2 Skl, and +2 Spd.

But I'd imagine that there might be better practical choices?

What do people think? Who is practical for Tsubaki?

[Duke of Dozel]

Silas and Takumi would like speed.

Silas doesn't have a negative speed mod and a 40% speed growth which is pretty solid. Unless you mean his base speed?

[Shephen]

Who is practical for Tsubaki?

Personally I say its Oboro like full stop. Subaki likes the extra str and Oboro likes the extra speed. Oboro's biggest issue is her speed comes up short often, and the Baki pair up fixes that as well as gives her access to Swallow Strike which removes any doubling issues she has. Baki's biggest issue is str(speed isn't a big issue for him since Swallow Strike) and he will take everything he can get. What Oboro gives that someone like Rinka can't is he can get Breaking Sky which is the best proc, and Baki's best stat is his skill stat. Defense Seal is also nice for him. Tying Hinoka down to Baki isn't the best idea since she doesn't give a lot of str and her ability would be more useful for him than her pair up bonuses(and reduces the amount of fliers on the field since they are paired up). Hinoka likes Silas better anways, and Baki doesn't really help Hinoka at all unlike with Oboro which is mutually beneficial to both of them. Oboro/Baki also maintain their lance ranks with the reclasses so they don't flounder around like some units do with E-rank at that point of the game.

Silas doesn't have a negative speed mod and a 40% speed growth which is pretty solid. Unless you mean his base speed?

His base speed is pretty meh and you need around 13-16 speed to double the non-armor/thieves unpromoted units in the early game. Once he gets off the ground he should be good.

[astrophys]

Personally I say its Oboro like full stop. Subaki likes the extra str and Oboro likes the extra speed. Oboro's biggest issue is her speed comes up short often, and the Baki pair up fixes that as well as gives her access to Swallow Strike which removes any doubling issues she has. Baki's biggest issue is str(speed isn't a big issue for him since Swallow Strike) and he will take everything he can get. What Oboro gives that someone like Rinka can't is he can get Breaking Sky which is the best proc, and Baki's best stat is his skill stat. Defense Seal is also nice for him. Tying Hinoka down to Baki isn't the best idea since she doesn't give a lot of str and her ability would be more useful for him than her pair up bonuses(and reduces the amount of fliers on the field since they are paired up). Hinoka likes Silas better anways, and Baki doesn't really help Hinoka at all unlike with Oboro which is mutually beneficial to both of them. Oboro/Baki also maintain their lance ranks with the reclasses so they don't flounder around like some units do with E-rank at that point of the game.

You make a good point…

Oboro as a Lance Fighter would give +2 Str/Skl/Spd without needing to consume a seal, and she would share weapon rank with Tsubaki's Pegasus class. As a Holy Lancer, that would give +3 Str/Skl, +2Spd. And Oboro's personal bonuses are: C rank = Str +1; B-rank: Str+1, Def+1, C-rank: Str +1, Spd+1, Def+1, and S-rank = Str +1, Skl+1, Spd +1, Lck+1, Def+1.

So a Holy Lancer Oboro would eventually offer (by S-rank): +4 Str, +4 Skl, +3 Spd, +1 Lck, +1 Def… seems fairly reasonable for Tsubaki, and even at C-rank Lance Fighter that's 3 Str, 2 Skl, 2 Spd.

And if you say that Oboro needs some help to push her over the doubling threshold, well then yes, Tsubaki's Spd bonus would accomplish that. By S-rank, his personal bonus is +2 Skl, +2 Def, and +1 Res, and these would add to the +3 Spd and +3 Res that Pegasus Warrior naturally gives: we're looking at +2 Skl, +3 Spd, +2 Def, and +4 Res (and +1 Move as a Falcon warrior).

An Oboro only arrives one chapter after Hinoka (in Birthright) and much earlier than her in 3rd route.

Also, if I understand correctly, this is what we'd expect from Oboro!Matoi:

Pegasus/Samurai/Lance Fighter (same skillset as Hinoka!Matoi)

Max Stat Mods (normally not terribly relevant): +1 Str, +0 Mag, +4 Skl, +0 Spd, -1 Lck, +5 Def, -1 Res

Growths [assumption: Matoi's Default/2 + Oboro's/2]: 42.5% HP, 37.5% Str, 17.5% Mag, 40% Skl, 40% Spd, 42.5% Lck, 37.5% Def, 25% Res

Generally these aren't as strong growths as Hinoka would give [Hinoka has 305% growths, Oboro has 280% growths, so Hinoka!Matoi should have around 12.5% better growths than Oboro!Matoi (295% vs 282.5%) if my assumptions are correct… Although that's only a total of -3.625 stat points in 29 levels compared to Hinoka!Matoi, on average, so its not huge; [-2.175 HP, -0.725 Str, +0.725 Mag, equal skill, -0.725 Spd, equal luck, +0.725 Def, -1.45 Res].

Oboro!Matoi's personal pair-up S-rank bonus should be +1 Skl, +1 Lck, and +3 Def if I understand correctly, so as a Falcon warrior she'd give +1 Skl, +3 Spd, +1 Lck, +3 Def, +3 Res, and +1 Move. As a Holy Lance she'd giver +3 Str, +4 Skl, +2 Spd, +1 Lck, +3 Def. If you had the Awakening DLC, you could even make her somewhat of a Lucina lookalike with the blue hair: +1 Skl, +4 Spd, +5 Lck, +3 Def

[-Cynthia-]

People have mentioned Charlotte as a good pairup for Xander and Berserker!Charlotte's +8 Str +5 Speed at S rank does seem pretty hard to pass up given Xander's high physical durability already, plus Defender gives him even more stats.

Luna seems like a good pair up partner for Leo- he's a bit on the slow side and there aren't too many +Spd supports in Nohr. Gives a little durability too, which in combination with Leo's high Mov/high Atk/1-2 range seems like a winning combination. Hero!Luna is probably better for Leo than Hero!Charlotte because Charlotte gives 2 more Str Leo doesn't need while Luna's personal pair up is 1 more Skl and Def. Felicia gives a good amount of speed and some mag as well so she might also make a good Leo partner.

Flannel's pair up bonuses seem really good for physical units. Managarmr gives +4 Str and Spd and it's 3 more Str and 2 Def at S rank. Could have him back up Camilla or Belka or a number of other folks.

[Ebony]

If you're not going for kids, I heard that Ryoma x Rinkah is pretty decent.

[astrophys]

Rinkah S-rank bonus: Str +1, Spd +2, Def +2

Oni Savage: +4 Str, +2 Def

Shura: +4 Str, +4 Def

Blacksmith: +3 Str, +2 Skl, +3 Def

So if we consider the Shura bonus: +5 Str, +2 Spd, +6 Def; big strength bonus for Ryouma, and also a big defense bonus.

[Ownagepuffs]

For Astrophys: Lancer Hinoka or Oboro both work really well with Baki. As stated earlier, Oboro and Baki both have more to gain from supporting each other than Hinoka/Baki since marriage seal let's Baki go Lancer from Oboro instead of overlapping Peg with Hinoka.

Silas doesn't have a negative speed mod and a 40% speed growth which is pretty solid. Unless you mean his base speed?

You are correct. They could both use some help with their base speed.

If you're not going for kids, I heard that Ryoma x Rinkah is pretty decent.

Truth be told Ryo x Anyone lower leveled than him works lol. I'm a fan of Ryo/Oboro.

[Shephen]

I'm more of a fan of Ryoma x Kagerou. Ryoma doesn't have any killing problems most of the time unless its a General or Great Knight. Kagerou's pair up bonuses are pretty nice and she gives +1 move which lets Ryoma speed up his killing of everything.

[Ryo]

I'm also having a problem picking a partner for Ryoma. The available females are: Rinka, Orochi, Mozume, Setsuna. Which one is the best choice? Also all of these people are severely untrained, so I'm not even sure if it's worth a unit slot...

[Shephen]

If they are severely undertrained then go with Setsuna. She can pass Victory to Shino and reclass to Ninja to give Ryoma +1 move. Also her hair color is the best of those 4.

[Thor Odinson]

Definitely not Orochi that's for certain unless you want Shino to be slower than molasses

Out of Rinka, Mozume, and Setsuna, Mozume prolly gives Shino more stats on Child Seal, but unless you reclassed her out of villager her pairup bonuses are pretty ass, Rinka and Setsuna both look like pairup bonuses for Ryouma, depending if you want more speedstacking or more atk/def

@Ninja: So can Rinka if we're reclassing, so that's not really exclusive to Setsuna

Edited September 29, 2015 by Thor Odinson

[astrophys]

For Astrophys: Lancer Hinoka or Oboro both work really well with Baki. As stated earlier, Oboro and Baki both have more to gain from supporting each other than Hinoka/Baki since marriage seal let's Baki go Lancer from Oboro instead of overlapping Peg with Hinoka.

I was under the impression from everything that others have told me (including some who claimed to have that pairing) that Hinoka x Baki had Hinoka give Baki her secondary class via marriage seal (i.e., she gives him Lancer). Are you sure about this point? Doesn't Tsubaki gain Lancer here, or have the people who I've spoken too been wrong?

Although I do admit that keeping fliers apart and Oboro not needing a seal to get into the STR boosting Lancer gives a practicality boost.

[Ownagepuffs]

Sealing is confusing. You may be right there.

[astrophys]

Well, I don't have the game, but from what I understand from talking to people who do have it, its:

The following rules seem to apply to buddy and marriage seals. I'll use the terminology in the context of marriage seals, but by replacing spouse with buddy you basically get the rules for buddy seals as well. The key difference is that marriage is reciprocal (two-way) and buddying (A+) is non-reciprocal (one-way).

For each one:

1. If their primary is different from their spouse's primary, they get their spouse's primary [even if its redundant because they already it as a secondary]

2. As an exception to #1, if their spouse's primary is a non-transferable class with respect to marriage seals (Singer, Garou, Fox Spirit, Villager, Nohr Prince, etc.) then they get their spouse's secondary.

3. However, as another exception, if case #2 BUT the spouse's secondary is the same as the seal using character's primary, then a replacement class is used.

4. If their primary is the same from their spouse's primary, they get their spouse's secondary

But yes, its confusing.

[Duke of Dozel]

Currently playing Fates. It's on Nohr, but I can do a similar thing by pairing Benoit and Elfie or Lazwald and Luna. Will post the results when I finish.

Also Elfie/Harold is THE practical pairing in Nohr. By far.

[Sunwoo]

Pairing two people who have the same primary class, or A+ing two people who have the same primary class, means that they will gain the secondary class.

Hinoka/Tsubaki gives Hinoka samurai and Tsubaki lancer.

Camilla A+ing Belka gives her fighter.

Hinata/Kazahana gives Hinata priest and Kazahana oni.

I can confirm these from my own playthrough.

[Minischew]

Currently playing Fates. It's on Nohr, but I can do a similar thing by pairing Benoit and Elfie or Lazwald and Luna. Will post the results when I finish.

Also Elfie/Harold is THE practical pairing in Nohr. By far.

Why Arthur/Effie?

[astrophys]

I'd presume its joining in the same chapter (letting them build support early), Arthur giving Effie Str (for triggering her special and synergy with her growths) and SPD (she has good SPD growth, but a slower starting class) and he gives even more Str as their support increases. He also gives her Fighter/Hero/Berserker, the last of which has the highest Str in the game and would let you really leverage Effie's personal. As its an early pairing, you get to pull Lutz out earlier, plus Arthur cannot be targeted at the back of a guard stance and thus his weakness to crits won't matter.

[Duke of Dozel]

^ Exactly. The game becomes much less of a hassle as she can one shot most enemies with ease, and they are some of the earliest characters you get. Harold's STR and SKL boosts help her hit hard and accurately, and her personal skill is used to it's fullest potential. As a berserker this is even more dangerous as her natrual speed and extremely high STR will be undoubtedly useful when she marriage seals Harold. They can get married as soon as the chapter after you get the 10,000 gold where you can purchase marriage seals and master seals, not to mention you get one during the Takumi chapter.

Having Lutz very early is also great since his stats and growths are some of the best with Elfie as his mom. His personal skill also helps out, and if he joins early he won't struggle to grind in later chapters.

The only problem with this pair is that in order to make the most out of it, Elfie is forced to use E rank axes. It also hinders Harold's usefulness as a unit.

[Minischew]

I'd presume its joining in the same chapter (letting them build support early), Arthur giving Effie Str (for triggering her special and synergy with her growths) and SPD (she has good SPD growth, but a slower starting class) and he gives even more Str as their support increases. He also gives her Fighter/Hero/Berserker, the last of which has the highest Str in the game and would let you really leverage Effie's personal. As its an early pairing, you get to pull Lutz out earlier, plus Arthur cannot be targeted at the back of a guard stance and thus his weakness to crits won't matter.

^ Exactly. The game becomes much less of a hassle as she can one shot most enemies with ease, and they are some of the earliest characters you get. Harold's STR and SKL boosts help her hit hard and accurately, and her personal skill is used to it's fullest potential. As a berserker this is even more dangerous as her natrual speed and extremely high STR will be undoubtedly useful when she marriage seals Harold. They can get married as soon as the chapter after you get the 10,000 gold where you can purchase marriage seals and master seals, not to mention you get one during the Takumi chapter.

Having Lutz very early is also great since his stats and growths are some of the best with Elfie as his mom. His personal skill also helps out, and if he joins early he won't struggle to grind in later chapters.

The only problem with this pair is that in order to make the most out of it, Elfie is forced to use E rank axes. It also hinders Harold's usefulness as a unit.

Ohh, that makes sense. To be honest, I'm a lot more biased towards Effie than I am towards Arthur, so I don't think I'll miss his utility too much.

Thanks for the responses!