How bad will censorship get with If?

[mouseno4]

I am relatively new to Fire Emblem as a whole, as my other thread makes obvious (playing the games in reverse order they were released in) and started with Awakening.

I know that Awakening got censored for the Australian release (whatever region that falls under) so i am wondering just how badly will the game be censored for my region.

Just how badly will it be modified/altered for the sensitive players out there? I know Nintendo does it to ensure sales - money is all that matters to them i know - so this thread is not about what should be/should not be censored, but rather how much/what kind of censorship If will likely get for its 'Fates' localisation?

I found out the other day, just how much Fire Emblem changes - and it changes drastically during localisation (apparently entire characters are nothing like their Japanese iterations) and i know all about the now infamous Tharja's bikini butt :/ but i would hardly say i know the extent to which Awakening was censored.

ACCOUNT NO LONGER IN USE.

Edited November 18, 2015 by mouseno4

[Duke of Dozel]

We have two cutscenes with Camilla's body as a focus. We have 2 pretty dark scenes where

[spoiler=Ryoma/Xander fight]Ryoma kills himself and Marx commits manslaughter on a child.

We have the ability to strip every character to nothing but underwear or bath towels. We've got plenty of curse words and innuendos in the supports. We've got Camilla DLC art that puts Tharja's ass shot to shame. We have implied (and actual) incest. Skinship says a lot of lewd stuff as you touch characters' face and necks. All this and more.

It's gonna be pretty hard to focus on censoring it. You can't just alter CGI cutscenes for instance.

It's either not gonna be censored or we'll be seeing a huge shift in difference from the original Japanese.

[gayserbeam]

Short Answer:

Nobody knows.

Long Answer:

The one thing that they will almost certainly do is take every marriage-able underage character and either explicitly state their age or give them adult voices.

As for the incest, due to the large number of siblings and cousins in the game and their children, EVERY combination of children can potentially be cousins and several can marry their neices and nephews. So they can't really censor that without some tricky support work. In Awakening cousins were labeled Companions to make it clear they weren't married, but there is no label in this game and Marriage Seals are a gameplay mechanic.

Several of the swimsuits and outfits may be slightly edited to be less suggestive, a la Bravely Default.

Edited November 6, 2015 by gayserbeam

[iavasechui]

Short Answer:

Nobody knows.

Long Answer:

The one thing that they will almost certainly do is take every marriage-able underage character and either explicitly state their age or give them adult voices.

As for the incest, due to the large number of siblings and cousins in the game and their children, EVERY combination of children can potentially be cousins and several can marry their neices and nephews. So they can't really censor that without some tricky support work. In Awakening cousins were labeled Companions to make it clear they weren't married, but there is no label in this game and Marriage Seals are a gameplay mechanic.

Several of the swimsuits and outfits may be slightly edited to be less suggestive, a la Bravely Default.

not to mention the only censored cousin marriage was Lucina and Owain who are always cousins. Since all the royal brothers have boys the only always cousins of opposite genders are the ninja twins kids. If those two can marry that will likely be the only 'companions' ending since for all the others the mother is variable, though it might be possible for f!Kanna to be 'companions' with Kamui's brothers kids, though it would be awkward for this to be censored considering who Kamui can marry.

[The Geek]

We have two cutscenes with Camilla's body as a focus. We have 2 pretty dark scenes where

[spoiler=Ryoma/Xander fight]Ryoma kills himself and Marx commits manslaughter on a child.

We have the ability to strip every character to nothing but underwear or bath towels. We've got plenty of curse words and innuendos in the supports. We've got Camilla DLC art that puts Tharja's ass shot to shame. We have implied (and actual) incest. Skinship says a lot of lewd stuff as you touch characters' face and necks. All this and more.

It's gonna be pretty hard to focus on censoring it. You can't just alter CGI cutscenes for instance.

It's either not gonna be censored or we'll be seeing a huge shift in difference from the original Japanese.

?

Are you talking about her Beach DLC CG? Cuz I thought that was pretty tame.

[Espinosa]

I have a feeling that I won't care too much about whatever ends up missing, especially if it's just something to do with scantily clad ladies.

[The DanMan]

What gayserbeam said. Plus, due to cultural differences and generally weirded-out reactions towards it, I would not be surprised if FE Amie got cut.

[CrimeanRoyalKnight]

I feel that if they cut too much content people will be extremely angry. I only expect them to tone down or remove the lolicon/shotacon at the moment.

Removing the incest would cause too many fans to go ballistic, cuz everyone a lot of people want to fuck Marx, Camilla, Leon and Takumi, so I don't think this will get axed, just... hmm, heavily modified. No more "nee-san" or such stuff.

Edited November 6, 2015 by CrimeanRoyalKnight

[iavasechui]

What gayserbeam said. Plus, due to cultural differences and generally weirded-out reactions towards it, I would not be surprised if FE Amie got cut.

I would be surprised if it did get cut, removing a large feature from a game could be a coding nightmare, not to mention that my room is also used to change hair for Kamui and removing that just to get rid of skinship would likely piss people off.

[HTakara82]

They'll just alter some dialogue, that's it. Just the way Awakening did.

[Jedi]

I highly doubt anything will be changed.

[CrimeanRoyalKnight]

I also want to point out that, if Nintendo removes content, they usually add new stuff to compensate, nowdays.

If Fates gets some things removed (I highly doubt it), it will be replaced by something new.

[Jedi]

I also want to point out that, if Nintendo removes content, they usually add new stuff to compensate, nowdays.

If Fates gets some things removed (I highly doubt it), it will be replaced by something new.

This is also true. So even if they do change something, we'll get something in its place.

[NekoKnight]

I think most of the edits will be text based and maybe alter the swimsuits to be more modest. Lewd lines and incestual undertones will be toned down. Underaged characters will claim to be 16 and/or be given more mature voices. They might make efforts to censor Camilla's DLC artwork.

I don't think they will take out Fire Emblem Amie or sisterfucking. It's way too big a feature.

[spoiler=IK Spoiler]

The line revealing Aqua and Kamui to be cousins will be changed.

[lysander]

Treehouse is hard to predict for censorship--8-4 did awakening's support conversation changes and such. The press said Nintendo was responsible for the swimsuit censorship in awakening but I don't believe there was ever any real source/confirmation for who made the call or why--all I know is they should've felt the fool since what censorship they did do there wasn't enough to change any opinion, as in the art was either fine both ways or still inappropriate both ways regardless.

If I had to guess, they might make some of the swimsuits or models in general more modest...or they might not. It's hard to tell the who/why for Bravely Default as well and whether or not the same who will be working on FE:F or if the same why will apply. Same for the dirty talk voice overs. Ar Tonelico 2 is rated T for teen with all sorts of dirty voice overs, as an example. But, it likely depends on what their voice actors are willing to do and what they are personally willing to release--they'll have the data on who mostly bought Awakening, in terms of older teens and adults versus parents for their young teens and would likely decide what's more appropriate for them from there.

All anybody can say with certainty is that they'll give anybody who needs it the Lyndis treatment. They might remove cousin incest wherever it's easy enough to do so, but they also might not even bother and instead just focus efforts on banhammering people who post about it on miiverse--when all is said and done, in all but maybe one case a younger audience wouldn't even know when it happened and an older audience should know well enough to manually avoid it unless they're weird.

Edited November 6, 2015 by lysander

[Sunwoo]

Gray and Midoriko are the Lucina and Owain of this game. Always cousins, and opposite-gendered. Can marry each other. Except it's really creepy in Fates because of the age difference between Gray and Midoriko.

Fates really fucked up hard by making this (unintentional) Incest Emblem by having so many siblings. On both sides. Seriously, if they wanted to do avatar and marriage again they should've just not given Kamui any siblings. Just because they're not related by blood does not make incest implications any better. People can still consider themselves family and not want to fuck each other when not related by blood.

[spoiler=Minor spoilers]I wouldn't be upset if they cut out marriage to be siblings because that's honestly what the Japanese version of the game should have done in the first place. Commit to them being Kamui's siblings, or don't bother saying they're your family. A lot of the stuff in Fates doesn't offend me, I understand that some of it is cultural differences and I think I'm not easily upset. I am offended at the promotional materials lying to me about the siblings, especially the Hoshido siblings, since it fucks up the entire theme of the game without actually delving into it in a responsible manner. If Kamui not being related to them was a plot point and not an excuse to let Kamui marry them, I'd have been cool with it. And of course, lying isn't a cultural thing so it's okay to be offended here.

[Jagged Jagen]

There are rumours going around that the localization is taking a toll on the team, albeit I am not certain of their legitimacy.

Anyhow, for my personal opinion on the matter, more of the changes made to Fates will be localization rather than censorship. A common misconception I've found these days, and others have too, is that localization = censorship, when in actuality, they are two separate things altogether.

Localization deals with changes based on societal values whilst censorship is the deliberate suppression of content deemed inappropriate. I expect many of the changes made in Fates to reflect the ideas and values of western society, with various changes to lines and features in a way that doesn't strip them of their content, but rather makes them more appropriate for the audience (to give an example, I do expect skinship to stay, but also expect heavy modification of the lines)

As well, I do feel more traditional censorship will make its way into Fire Emblem too, be it the censorship of CGs or so on. And to be honest, I will fully understand if (more likely knowing Nintendo, when) they do so. As it stands, Nintendo has yet to market Fire Emblem Fates as a Mature title, with no preface prior to the videos acknowledging the anticipation of an M rating. If not already abundantly clear, Nintendl fully intends for a T rating. However, the likelihood of said rating is hindered without censorship given the series high rating in Japan (CERO C), the same country, mind you, that deemed Path of Radiance (ESRB T) to be a fully family friendly game as well as Awakening (Also T) to be appropriate for young gamers. This new rating is enough of an issue already, but is of little harm to Japanese sales as Fire Emblem has enough of a reputation.

In North America however, Fire Emblem has less of a reputation, but it's growing. Awakening was successful, and after SSB4, more gamers are taking interest, and that includes younger gamers. SSB4 was E10+ which allowed for a wider audience to experience the game. And this audience can be younger too. And if this younger audience wishes to explore FE, they can. Many stores have adopted the ESRB policy of not selling M or AO games to those under the respective ages of the rating, but T is fully allowed to be sold to all ages. If Fire Emblem Fates was to get an M rating, that's cutting off a potentially lucrative audience. As it stands, younger games have a lot more expendable income than older. There's no fear, no worries, just pure gaming. To cut off that market is likely something nintendo doesn't want to do, especially as FE becomes more accessible to other markets. To cut off one potential market is not good in a business sense, especially in FE's awkward state of not quite niche, but not quite mainstream either. So, a T rating is likely sought after, and localization/censorship are just means to try and achieve that goal.

Compare Fates to SMTXFE. SMTXFE from April 1 onwards has been marketed as: niche, on a niche console and targeting a certain demographic. It is likely SMT X FE will receive little localization/censorship, and an M rating. Why, because it can afford to be so. It has additional funding from outside sources, a very generalized structure/plot and is on the Wii U, where niche games can excell by virtue of being a major release. It can afford the M rating. As Fates tries to broaden the scope of its appeal, I really don't think it can.

Granted, this is just my $0.02 on the matter

[Raccoon844]

Honestly, Fates will have a "small" chunk of content changed or removed.

By changed i mean they will try (and i mean TRY, given FE's reputation of vague Incest tones) to downplay as much incest as they can. While i do believe that they won't go overboard with the censoring like back in the SNES-N64 days the supports will be changed a bit to adjust for overseas mainly due to the different cultures and more strict policies on Incest and Censorship. Dialogue will have to be changed when it gets translated. (ESPECIALLY Soleil's support with Mamui, That stuff isn't going to fly by ANYONE's heads when it comes out.)

And by removed i am talking about some parts of the Summer Scramble DLC that they have with Fates. Skinship MAYBE but it's a "big" part of the game. Still, we can all look to the future with optimistic ideas of it and hopefully it won't go too bad.

Edited November 7, 2015 by Raccoon844

[lysander]

FE:F won't get an M, full-stop. I can cite so many games that do things so much worse than FE:F on all levels that are still T for teen. Ar Tonelico 2 was an example on the lewd voice acting/sexual innuendo front. Another would be Project X Zone. Etrian Odyssey game artwork is another example. Every growlanser game (the series artist is a hentai artist and most of the artwork is borderline). Every Trails in the Sky game. Every Tales of game. The list goes on.

ESRB won't be a factor here since no matter what it hits T rating rather than M rating, even if left as-is entirely.

[Sunwoo]

FE:F won't get an M, full-stop. I can cite so many games that do things so much worse than FE:F on all levels that are still T for teen. Ar Tonelico 2 was an example on the lewd voice acting/sexual innuendo front. Another would be Project X Zone. Etrian Odyssey game artwork is another example. Every growlanser game (the series artist is a hentai artist and most of the artwork is borderline). Every Trails in the Sky game. Every Tales of game. The list goes on.

What's wrong with Etrian Odyssey artwork? Barring classes that are supposed to be more "sexy" (troubadour/dancer) and not heavily armored (dark hunter/ronin/nightseeker), they are generally better looking and are far less of a train wreck than what we've been seeing in Awakening and Fates. The armored characters look more functional (hoplite, protector, fortress) and most classes don't have random holes for no reason either.

Edited November 6, 2015 by Sunwoo

[lysander]

It's just general little girl looking artwork with little clothing on. ESRB regularly cites it in their "this is why this game got a T rating" overviews.

[Sunwoo]

It's just general little girl looking artwork with little clothing on. ESRB regularly cites it in their "this is why this game got a T rating" overviews.

I count the pink-haired dancer/troubadour (basically shares the same appearance with one another) and the younger nightseeker. That's basically the worst of it. The rest of the characters are properly dressed, or look noticeably older. And besides, it is most certainly not worse than whatever the hell Fates is doing now. (Some examples: Nyx, who is said to have the body of a child; putting sorcerer costume on any of the younger characters; marrying the younger characters in general; white/dark blood costume on female Kanna, etc.)

[NekoKnight]

The game won't get rated higher than T. Nintendo won't allow any of it's mainstream (Fire Emblem isn't quite there but popular enough now to not be called 'niche') to be rated M.

[spoiler=Minor spoilers]I wouldn't be upset if they cut out marriage to be siblings because that's honestly what the Japanese version of the game should have done in the first place. Commit to them being Kamui's siblings, or don't bother saying they're your family. A lot of the stuff in Fates doesn't offend me, I understand that some of it is cultural differences and I think I'm not easily upset. I am offended at the promotional materials lying to me about the siblings, especially the Hoshido siblings, since it fucks up the entire theme of the game without actually delving into it in a responsible manner. If Kamui not being related to them was a plot point and not an excuse to let Kamui marry them, I'd have been cool with it. And of course, lying isn't a cultural thing so it's okay to be offended here.

I'd like it if they did this. Maybe some would reject it out of principle for being a large break from the original game, but sticking to and reinforcing the advertised theme of family would be a big improvement over what we have now. In the spirit of replacing and not simply removing content, they could give an extra support rank for family members to cement their platonic and familial relationship. Throw in a "family seal" to keep the class options the open.

Edited November 6, 2015 by NekoKnight

[The DanMan]

I would be surprised if it did get cut, removing a large feature from a game could be a coding nightmare, not to mention that my room is also used to change hair for Kamui and removing that just to get rid of skinship would likely piss people off.

I never said My Room would be cut. And really, any sort of localization change will piss people off.

Also, it's highly unlikely Fates would get an M rating as-is. I'm going to throw BlazBlue out as an example; enough fanservice and innuendo to get "sexual themes" on the rating label; still rated T. Nintendo won't want to risk anything, though.

[Vashiane]

While I understand your point lysander, as those aren't my favorite designs either, the two classes in question are a dancer (who have flashy or revealing clothes in... literally every medium ever), and a nightseeker (essentially an assassin, and the outfit is a great way to distract someone enough to kill them tbh). The fanservice isn't on the classes where it makes no sense for it to be there.

Compare this:

to this:

Also.

This exists.

Edited November 7, 2015 by Vashiane