Azz Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 The homosexuality will be limited in the NA version I highly doubt it. As many said NA was the first to reveal it, it would be major selling point to those that were annoyed with the lack of same-sex marriage in FEA such as myself, the West is much more accepting of same-sex marriage compared to Japan and the East in general and it would be a complete step backwards if they removed it while the Japan kept it. -I pretty much just repeated what everyone else said, I know, but I don't care- As for censor ship as a whole, I really hope they don't go too far. I know there is a lot of needless fan service in the game and I do hope for FE15 we do get less of it, but not much needs to be censored in terms of visuals or gameplay. Really it is only dialogue and supports and characters in general. I can see Skinship maybe being removed(I doubt it since it was shown on the Treehouse stream I believe), but other then that I think they may add more then take away if anything. (Though I may be just putting my hopes to high) As long as they some what fix the cluster fuck of a story and don't completely take away from characters like Zero (I don't want Henry V2.0) I will be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryo Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 It's not like there's anything to limit in the first place. You only have one bi character for each gender. I can imagine them toning down Zero or maybe Shara's creepiness, but that's reasonable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azz Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 It's not like there's anything to limit in the first place. You only have one bi character for each gender. I can imagine them toning down Zero or maybe Shara's creepiness, but that's reasonable. The thing is Shara is not that creepy from what I remember. Her supports with Femui are very sweet and I don't think she is blatantly creepy in any of her other supports. If anything she is socially awkward. Camilla is the one who is creepy. As for Zero, despite my love for him, I do agree he needs to be toned down.(Especially them Elise supports) But I just hope they don't ruin him like Henry is all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhesus Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 (edited) I can say almost certainly that localizations won't be adding any more M/M F/F S-supports because it would take a LOT of extra programming and writing (and possibly translation), delaying a game no other region even has a release date for besides, different countries/regions have all kinds of societal views on that topic. I'd personally love it, but I'm just one dude and not an entire market Edited November 9, 2015 by Rhesus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrayClouds23 Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Skinship being removed would really piss me off. Its not that bad and I strangely enjoy it. Then again I'm not like every boring ass human out there. Also in a fictional story incest is fine with me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zerosabers Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 If it was incest like in GoT or even Genealogy I'd be fine with it. But the incest seems more along the lines of lets fuck my sister because some people might be into that kinda thing. Also aren't Elise and Sakura(?) like 13 or 14? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunwoo Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 The problem with the incest isn't that it exists. The real problem is that the developers were apparently too pansy to make certain characters off-limits for marriage because that'd offend people who wanted to waifu them so they basically pulled a cop-out in the supports going "you're not really related to the Hoshidos and you can bang the Nohrs even if you all grew up believing you were actual sibling". This non-relation to the Hoshidos seems to never be brought up at all in the storyline proper for any of the three paths (Hoshido and Nohr for sure, I'm still not 100% certain on the IK), so it's inconsequential to the plot and nothing would've changed had Kamui just been related to the Hoshidos completely. At the very least, Sakura and Takumi have no excuse for not being at least Kamui's half sibling. Now, if the game decided to reveal that Kamui wasn't related to the Hoshidos as a plot point and had them react appropriately to the revelation instead of just taking it as a green light to bang, I'd be okay with it. As it stands, what the developers gave us is a "nobody wins" solution where the game tries to pretend that they're siblings but they were too chicken to put the siblings off-limits as waifus so you can marry one and get pseudo-incest/incestual overtones without the in-game characters acknowledging it at all. Schrodinger's incest, apparently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medeus Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 That's pretty much my issue with it as well. I don't mind incest in stories as long as it has helps develop plot and characters that you're trying to tell, which stories like the ones you mentioned did well. Fates is very clearly only doing it for fetish pandering, and as mentioned before, it does the opposite of help the story and characters since it neuters an important thematic for the game. So to me, the incest is horribly handled and comes across as just pointless fanservice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhesus Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 I've heard it mentioned a few times but how exactly did Genealogy handle incest? I haven't played that one yet but I do agree, the siblings are too blatantly brocon/siscon for me and many fanworks I've seen are reinforcing that aspect so..... that doesn't help at all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunwoo Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 I've heard it mentioned a few times but how exactly did Genealogy handle incest? I haven't played that one yet It was a major plot point in Genealogy, actually. In the world of Genealogy, bloodlines are a bit of a big thing, as those who have inherited "major holy blood" are capable of wielding the holy weapon of their founder, wielded by the crusader that the bloodline is named for. Think of the Lopt cult as like the Grimleal, they are "evil" and were eradicated because they tried to destroy the world through their dark god. Descendants that bear Lopt blood are often killed because the people don't want a repeat of that. When the game takes place, there are two known descendants of the crusader who carried Lopt blood: Alvis and Dierdre. They're forced to marry each other so that their child will be born with major Lopt blood (both Alvis and Dierdre carry minor Lopt) and become the vessel for their dark god. I haven't actually played Genealogy, so I may have missed some details, but the point is that it's actually a plot point. It's not there just because the developers wanted to make siblings and still let you marry everyone, like in Fates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonPancham Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Btw there is no censorship for tharja in my awakening. I just checked and its my australian copy. There is no towel of any sorts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Paladin X Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Btw there is no censorship for tharja in my awakening. I just checked and its my australian copy. There is no towel of any sorts. That's because the censorship was only in the U.S. version. The video game rating board for North America, ESRB, is much harsher when compared to Europe and Australian rating boards. But again, there isn't anything in Fates that would warrant censorship or anything (although the Soleil/Male Avatar, the incest overtones with the Avatar's siblings, and some skinship lines will need to be toned down a little bit) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhesus Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 (edited) It was a major plot point in Genealogy, actually. In the world of Genealogy, bloodlines are a bit of a big thing, as those who have inherited "major holy blood" are capable of wielding the holy weapon of their founder, wielded by the crusader that the bloodline is named for. Think of the Lopt cult as like the Grimleal, they are "evil" and were eradicated because they tried to destroy the world through their dark god. Descendants that bear Lopt blood are often killed because the people don't want a repeat of that. When the game takes place, there are two known descendants of the crusader who carried Lopt blood: Alvis and Dierdre. They're forced to marry each other so that their child will be born with major Lopt blood (both Alvis and Dierdre carry minor Lopt) and become the vessel for their dark god. I haven't actually played Genealogy, so I may have missed some details, but the point is that it's actually a plot point. It's not there just because the developers wanted to make siblings and still let you marry everyone, like in Fates. oh, thanks for the explanation! that's definitely a lot more justified in that it's not the weird fetish-y type That's because the censorship was only in the U.S. version. The video game rating board for North America, ESRB, is much harsher when compared to Europe and Australian rating boards. But again, there isn't anything in Fates that would warrant censorship or anything (although the Soleil/Male Avatar, the incest overtones with the Avatar's siblings, and some skinship lines will need to be toned down a little bit) I don't know a lot about Europe, but Australia is definitely stricter in its ratings, considering they've outright banned a good number of games Edited November 9, 2015 by Rhesus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Laufeyson Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 but the US left the Boingy Bits convo in. The problem with the incest isn't that it exists. The real problem is that the developers were apparently too pansy to make certain characters off-limits for marriage because that'd offend people who wanted to waifu them so they basically pulled a cop-out in the supports going "you're not really related to the Hoshidos and you can bang the Nohrs even if you all grew up believing you were actual sibling". This non-relation to the Hoshidos seems to never be brought up at all in the storyline proper for any of the three paths (Hoshido and Nohr for sure, I'm still not 100% certain on the IK), so it's inconsequential to the plot and nothing would've changed had Kamui just been related to the Hoshidos completely. At the very least, Sakura and Takumi have no excuse for not being at least Kamui's half sibling. Now, if the game decided to reveal that Kamui wasn't related to the Hoshidos as a plot point and had them react appropriately to the revelation instead of just taking it as a green light to bang, I'd be okay with it. As it stands, what the developers gave us is a "nobody wins" solution where the game tries to pretend that they're siblings but they were too chicken to put the siblings off-limits as waifus so you can marry one and get pseudo-incest/incestual overtones without the in-game characters acknowledging it at all. Schrodinger's incest, apparently. One thing that kinda boils my beans: [spoiler=Mild spoilas in here] Is that when it comes to this situation, theres literally no characterization reasons for the incest to happen. In stories like A Song of Ice And Fire, theres character who are incestuous for plot reasons AND characterization reason. Cersei Lannister is in love with her brother only because she sees him as an extension of herself. It also doesnt completely define those characters. This is where my beef with Camilla's writing comes in. The reason shes obsessed with Kamui is because...because. Because wynaut, basically. They didnt even bother really writing her a reason shes so into Kamui. Yet this is the thing that defines her. If they had her being into Kamui because of some sort of psychological need, or being emotionally needy. Or something having to do with her own upbringing and moral standing...i dont think it would be so bad. But it seems like none of that is even present. Just hot babe wants to bang pseudo-sibling. Why on earth would Ryouma want to bang Kamui as well? He obviously grew up being much more well adjusted than Camilla. While Ryouma's initial characterization isnt incestuous, the option to marry is still there. Schrodinger's Incest indeed. Theres not even much in the way of political reasoning that the game gives you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NekoKnight Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 (edited) The problem with the incest isn't that it exists. The real problem is that the developers were apparently too pansy to make certain characters off-limits for marriage because that'd offend people who wanted to waifu them so they basically pulled a cop-out in the supports going "you're not really related to the Hoshidos and you can bang the Nohrs even if you all grew up believing you were actual sibling". This non-relation to the Hoshidos seems to never be brought up at all in the storyline proper for any of the three paths (Hoshido and Nohr for sure, I'm still not 100% certain on the IK), so it's inconsequential to the plot and nothing would've changed had Kamui just been related to the Hoshidos completely. At the very least, Sakura and Takumi have no excuse for not being at least Kamui's half sibling. Now, if the game decided to reveal that Kamui wasn't related to the Hoshidos as a plot point and had them react appropriately to the revelation instead of just taking it as a green light to bang, I'd be okay with it. As it stands, what the developers gave us is a "nobody wins" solution where the game tries to pretend that they're siblings but they were too chicken to put the siblings off-limits as waifus so you can marry one and get pseudo-incest/incestual overtones without the in-game characters acknowledging it at all. Schrodinger's incest, apparently. Although we've discussed this topic to death, I'll say again that most concerning with this implementation of incest is that it is handled as lightly and insignificant as any other romance. When Kamui or any of his/her siblings express something like "I can no longer think of you as my sister/I've come to love you as a woman/I've loved you since the moment we met (really creepy and incestuous)" there is no extreme confusion or revulsion from one party. There is no reaction from Kamui's other siblings or ANYONE that Kamui is in an extremely taboo relationship. Likewise, Kamui and his sibling hardly have a thought about how others will regard them, it's just "No blood relation? Let's bang!" It gets worse in that they still refer to each other by their sibling titles, even if they get married. And you get gems like: "I can no longer think of you as my sister, Kamui-neesan." Now, if the game treated incest with the proper weight, the taboo acknowledged, all the awkwardness of it and concern for how others will react (and the fallout for such a union), I would be okay with it. I might even praise the writers for their boldness. Granted, most romance in Awakening/Fates is handled with the subtlety of a hammer (some relationships sound downright predatory in nature) but you'd think pseudo-incest of all things would be "too much" to be pass off as another kink. Edited November 10, 2015 by NekoKnight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunwoo Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 (edited) Although we've discussed this topic to death, I'll say again that most concerning with this implementation of incest is that it is handled as lightly and insignificant as any other romance. When Kamui or any of his/her siblings express something like "I can no longer think of you as my sister/I've come to love you as a woman/I've loved you since the moment we met (really creepy and incestuous)" there is no extreme confusion or revulsion from one party. There is no reaction from Kamui's other siblings or ANYONE that Kamui is in an extremely taboo relationship. Likewise, Kamui and his sibling hardly have a thought about how others will regard them, it's just "No blood relation? Let's bang!" It gets worse in that they still refer to each other by their sibling titles, even if they get married. And you get gems like: "I can no longer thing of you as my sister, Kamui-neesan." Now, if the game treated incest with the proper weight, the taboo acknowledged, all the awkwardness of it and concern for how others will react (and the fallout for such a union), I would be okay with it. I might even praise the writers for their boldness. Granted, most romance in Awakening/Fates is handled with the subtlety of a hammer (some relationships sound downright predatory in nature) but you'd think (pseudo-incest of all things would be "too much" to be pass off as another kink. Yeah, that's another problem. There's no responsibility, no reasonable explanation for why the characters react (or don't react) the way they do. And while I can see it from Kamui's end, since they didn't realize the Hoshidans existed until the game started, it doesn't explain the Hoshidans who grew up believing Kamui was their true sibling. The storyline was not written at all to account for Kamui marrying them, they still refer to one another as "niisan" or "neesan". Character interactions don't change at all to my knowledge, treating each other the same as siblings and spouses in the actual plot. It's like the game tries to have it both ways and completely and utterly fails at making sense. Fuck you, game. Next time, just have the guts to make siblings off-limits, or to not give the avatar siblings if you want to do marry everyone. Edited November 9, 2015 by Sunwoo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damosel Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 (edited) For censorship I think something will have to be done with the underaged members of the cast, I'm guessing personality changes in a dose of maturity being injected. I'd almost say "Companions" might make a come back but the exsistence of Kanna kinda destroys that option. Honestly the script writing feels like it's on rails at times when combined with the any-S-rank for Kamui. Crimson for example in the thrid route. Appearently even if m!Kamui's married to Crimson she says the exact same thing in IK. The link also brings up the fact that they got sloppy on how Kamui is addressed by their significant others, Velour being very face-palm worthy. On the subject of comments above- I'm definitely on the same page as the above posters that the psuedo-sibling S ranks are cheaply implimented and really dumb. Personally it's a wreckingball to what could've been a poignant theme about family- now it's just schrodinger's incest. As Loki mentioned it's ruined some characters and seems more like a joke than characterization. And as NekoKnight said, any dramatic tension was entirely wasted by the writers and it just doesn't matter in the narrative. No idea if Treehouse will keep the sib-fetish in MyCastle amie lines or what. On another creepy topic, I wonder if the 2nd Gen S Ranks are going to be handled just as blithely as in the Japanese version by Treehouse. Cause it's WAY weirder in FE14 compared to FE13 (where it was already weird) I mean, it's implied that Kamui would've known of, if not witnessed, the Gen2 character's birth/early childhood. They definitely know the parents in question. And yet there doesn't seem to be any issue with it brought up in any supports- certainly no angry/overprotective parent trying to defend their time-chamber baby from Kamui's craddle-robbing ways. I think one of the weirdest scenarious is with IK, if f!Kamui marries Shigure they rule Touma together. And then Aqua's there in the background as Kamui's advisor- looking on forever, assumably with much internal screaming. It'll be interesting to see how the localizations are handled, since this is the first FE where I know most of the original version, thus will be making comaprisons. Edit: I've heard it mentioned a few times but how exactly did Genealogy handle incest? I haven't played that one yet It's both in the narrative and game mechanics. Sunwoo covered most of the narrative. Although there's also a villager in-game who mentions that people from the same holy bloodline doing the dirty is a taboo, though this is mostly flavor text. Mechanically each character has a Holy Blood wheel to show what they can potentially pass on to their children, in addition to letting you know what growths will be boosted for them (it also increases their weapon proficency). One big thing about Holy Blood is that carriers of minor pass on two minor, while a major carrier will give one major and one minor in 2nd Gen- if you marry a minor + major or minor x 2 = two major carriers. Some people prefer to get as many Major Bloods for 2nd Gen as possible, and there's cousins who get Lovers dialogue (kinda an extra reward for hooking them up). Despite having skeletal SNES writing characters do actually talk about being related (or possibly related), Nana/Ares most blatantly. Also the epilogue actually has the kids take on possible land inheritances, which is paying more attention to their possible dads compared to poor Virion with no heir for Rosanne ever. Edited November 10, 2015 by Damosel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lysander Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Treehouse will not translate ______onee-san/onii-sama any more than they'd translate any other -san or -sama directly and especially in those instances I doubt they'll let it affect how they translate the rest of the dialogue around it. Just more generally, for Hoshido the "mom left me a letter saying we aren't related" thing smells of BK warp powder and will likely be changed to something a western audience would find more acceptable along with some of the reactions. Those are the sorts of things they'd easily change since it doesn't actually mess with the original intent and rather just displays it in a more believable way--the letter thing is meant to be "I was reluctant/it felt shameful until" and it'd be better to show that in some other fashion. Kamui's reactions are already somewhat spot-on in my opinion though, a lot of the time, and small adjustments are about all that would be necessary. The biggest sin of any S-support is the speed and shortness of reaction, it's just stuff like this gets hit even harder by it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ebony Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 I mean, it's implied that Kamui would've known of, if not witnessed, the Gen2 character's birth/early childhood. I don't even think its implied as much as flat out said. Doesn't Syalla's support say something about this? How they watched them grow up and even babysat her? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PuffPuff Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 (edited) If it was incest like in GoT or even Genealogy I'd be fine with it. But the incest seems more along the lines of lets fuck my sister because some people might be into that kinda thing. Also aren't Elise and Sakura(?) like 13 or 14? This is a more grown up series, so it'd be wrong if these were to be removed. It was a major plot point in Genealogy, actually. In the world of Genealogy, bloodlines are a bit of a big thing, as those who have inherited "major holy blood" are capable of wielding the holy weapon of their founder, wielded by the crusader that the bloodline is named for. Think of the Lopt cult as like the Grimleal, they are "evil" and were eradicated because they tried to destroy the world through their dark god. Descendants that bear Lopt blood are often killed because the people don't want a repeat of that. When the game takes place, there are two known descendants of the crusader who carried Lopt blood: Alvis and Dierdre. They're forced to marry each other so that their child will be born with major Lopt blood (both Alvis and Dierdre carry minor Lopt) and become the vessel for their dark god. I haven't actually played Genealogy, so I may have missed some details, but the point is that it's actually a plot point. It's not there just because the developers wanted to make siblings and still let you marry everyone, like in Fates. @Boron Geneology Of The Holy War (Mid-Game ~Ch5-6!) Having minor Lopt is what kept them from being executed, or that thier dark bloodline was too weak to be traced by yokels of Chaphy! Yeah, that's another problem. There's no responsibility, no reasonable explanation for why the characters react (or don't react) the way they do. And while I can see it from Kamui's end, since they didn't realize the Hoshidans existed until the game started, it doesn't explain the Hoshidans who grew up believing Kamui was their true sibling. The storyline was not written at all to account for Kamui marrying them, they still refer to one another as "niisan" or "neesan". Character interactions don't change at all to my knowledge, treating each other the same as siblings and spouses in the actual plot. It's like the game tries to have it both ways and completely and utterly fails at making sense. Fuck you, game. Next time, just have the guts to make siblings off-limits, or to not give the avatar siblings if you want to do marry everyone. Start Of Game Yeah, it's fucked up that the avatar isn't formal of the Hoshidians since he/she never met them before in his/her life until the game just started! (In war, you've got to watch your back every step of the way!) Honestly the script writing feels like it's on rails at times when combined with the any-S-rank for Kamui. Crimson for example in the thrid route. Appearently even if m!Kamui's married to Crimson she says the exact same thing in IK. The link also brings up the fact that they got sloppy on how Kamui is addressed by their significant others, Velour being very face-palm worthy. Ch18 Start IK Route Nothing different happens. Kamui just becomes a widow. .___. ----- They really need to do something about Felicia's voice. Please let it be better in the US/Euro. Edited November 10, 2015 by Princess_Elise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damosel Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 I don't even think its implied as much as flat out said. Doesn't Syalla's support say something about this? How they watched them grow up and even babysat her? Well if that's not super ultra creepy I don't know what is. I cannot see that support detail making it through unchanged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alazen Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 (edited) Fates' setting and narrative is so underwhelming (at best) that I would be amused by one of the localizers going ''Man, this junk is a joke. Let's throw it all out!'', leading to a mass rewrite. Edited November 10, 2015 by Alazen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nordopolica Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Fates' setting and narrative is so underwhelming (at best) that I would be amused by one of the localizers going ''Man, this junk is a joke. Let's throw it all out!'', leading to a mass rewrite. I'd honestly be up for this just to see how it turned out, but unfortunately I think we're in for just toned-down version of what we got in JP, incest implications in tow. No matter how much I personally am against them, I highly doubt they'll remove any S supports or go to any extremes with removing things that are coded into the game. They'll just change - or rather, localise - some dialogue. The E3 presentation gives a lot of insight into what may be the final product. It followed the original script pretty faithfully, and given how evil Garon came off in that small section, Nohr's narrative notoriety is going to be alive and will with the English release, I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zerosabers Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 This is a more grown up series, so it'd be wrong if these were to be removed. I wouldn't call it grown up just because it has incest and death. It reminds me of shitty Jeff the Killer rip offs where the character is sooo tragic and grammar doesn't exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giga Man Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Sooo... let me get this straight. Without going into too much detail (this might just require "yes" or "no" answers), nowhere in the story and the dialogue among the characters in the story is there a mention of the avatar not being blood-related to the Hoshidan royals? There's not even a hint towards it? Are all the characters in belief the entire game that the avatar and the Hoshidan royals are blood-related? Also, what about Aqua? Isn't she Garon's daughter? Doesn't that make her blood-related to the Nohrian royals? I'm still somehow trying to avoid spoilers even though I'm past thin ice and now treading on chilly waters... Just don't answer more than necessary for the sake of the discussion. XD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.