ITT: I (try to) balance the characters (again)!

[Refa]

I'd rather have a higher level Marcia with better bases. Even on my first run with a fairly slow paced playstyle on Normal Mode, I'd never bother with the effort of getting Marcia 20 levels so that she could promote (I could use a crest but if I was going for early promotions, I'd have better candidates).

Edited November 22, 2015 by Refa

[Sweet_Basil]

I think the CRK's main issue is that they aren't enough chapters for them to grow, the GMs have similar or better bases and are available way longer.

[Junkhead]

I had recently discovered your last list as I was starting hard mode in Radiant Dawn. Love the idea. It's always fun to speculate what could be. I love Radiant Dawn, but it's a hot balancing mess, and there are so many units that one wishes could be in the spotlight, but doing so is just one big domino.

That's actually a nice thing to hear, thanks. I really do like talking about these things, it's pretty fun indeed. Getting back to the game after a few years, I feel there's so much things we left out and gave for granted (like some characters being far better than we thought they were capable of).

Not digging the changes to Jill. I've had some awful Jills. She has problems with HP and STR, but I think Dawn Brigade chapters have 2 seraph robes and 1 energy drop. It may be best to take out that energy drop to make it so that if your Jill gets strength screwed, there's no fixing it until late game.

Jill's bases are indeed pretty shaky, but the reason she's considered one of the best in the game is because of how she can become so good by using those (at least an Angelic Robe+Energy Drop combo). I feel that making her 14/1 pre-promote will hinder her ability to gain levels (aka, more stats) while not making her entirely useless (she still has solid bases, +1 Mov, saves you a Master Seal and can equip Paragon now). To all of that, add in the fact she still flies (super important for Part 3 & 4) and you can still manage with her...you know, without her being much better than the rest of her pack.

Love the changes to Zihark. I feel it'd help a lot, without changing the role he fulfills in the Dawn Brigade.

Wait, you mean the whole "give him 4-5 HP" thing? Could've sworn I editted that out. Didn't think it was necessary in the end, he's pretty balance as he is (ee-mo).

As for Kieran, he's hard to balance. Boosts from PoR can make him a pretty decent unit and cover any balancing, but his caps will do him in. I really like him though.

Completely forgot about transfers, it seems. Since this is hypothetical as it is, it's just considering normal, transfer-less game. I forgot how he can actually be pretty salvagable with that +2 Spd, since it allows him to automatically reach 24 AS with a Crown by 3-9 (which means he doubles). Don't you like my version with Resolve, though? He's pretty much Mordecai 2.0 now...you know, minus the whole Gauge thing.

Agree with Marcia as well. Her SPD is terrible, and it'll help smooth things with BEXP. I feel +5 SPD is generous to Makalov. If PoR bonuses are accounted for, he would have capped speed off the bat making his speed growth kind of a moot point till he promotes.

It's not terrible, it's just rather underwhelming, given the fact she's a Pegasi rider at that level and because it matches Kieran & Geoffrey's.

I feel +5 SPD is generous to Makalov. If PoR bonuses are accounted for, he would have capped speed off the bat making his speed growth kind of a moot point till he promotes.

I'd give him at least +3 Spd, that way he actually has a shot of BEXP'ing it up or something. He has a huge Spd growth, but it's severely hindered by his bad Spd base. I won't auto-level him to a higher level because it will affect his Exp gains. Definitely fixing that though, lol.

Calill is a tough one. She can easily catch up with Paragon. Rexflame gives the oh so desirable +3 speed, so I don't see much need for balancing her. She's already pretty well in the middle.

Yeah, she's pretty good as she is. Arguably one of the better magic users in the game, and this is WITH her tiny availability issue. I can easily just auto-level her to lvl. 11 and call it a day. It gives her an auto +3 Spd, a bit more stats and it allows her to promote right off the bat. I'm saving Paragon for someone who actually really needs it. (:

When she gets one speed point in this chapter, she can double everyone except for the crossbow warriors and the boss in 3-3 (who can't get doubled anyway with any second tier unit).

BTW I don't think anyone of the CKs except for Astrid really needs skills.

Just unlock trading skills in part 2.

I think it's worth mentioning that I'm considering HM when I do these. Like, I think the game's pretty balanced (or on the more balanced side, at least) on Normal Mode. Characters need about 24 AS in 3-9 to double consistently and later 25 AS for the chapter afterwards.

Unlocking trading Skills by Part 2 takes away Brom's exclusivity on Celerity as well as it gives characters like Haar and/or Elincia the oportunity to use Mordecai's Resolve. ):

True, but most of the units Marca handles in part 2 will be tier 1. She quickly grows SPD, but I like the proposal because it'll help smooth out her other stats with BEXP.

Actually, the tiny bit of extra Spd is what gets her doubling quicker and also allows her to potentially 3-turn 3-9 (she needs 27 AS to double the boss). I'm going for small tweaks that can make all the difference in the world.

It just struck me how humorous the concept of base discipline is on Makalov. Now that's irony.

Really? I was actually going for base Gamble, which is even more ironic, considering his backstory...

I'd rather have a higher level Marcia with better bases. Even on my first run with a fairly slow paced playstyle on Normal Mode, I'd never bother with the effort of getting Marcia 20 levels so that she could promote (I could use a crest but if I was going for early promotions, I'd have better candidates).

I was ready to say how that wasn't the best of ideas, as that could hinder her Exp gain. But then I remembered, it actually helps her promote quicker as well as it does give her that +2 Spd she yearns for.

I'd rather have a higher level Marcia with better bases. Even on my first run with a fairly slow paced playstyle on Normal Mode, I'd never bother with the effort of getting Marcia 20 levels so that she could promote (I could use a crest but if I was going for early promotions, I'd have better candidates).

While it is true they don't have a lot of time to grow, it's also true that their bases hinder them by the time they arrive. The +bases/levels sort of fixes that issue in the way that it allows them to be of use a lot quicker if you were to actually invest on them a little. Someone like Geoffrey benefits of BEXP slowplay at his level, Kieran has base Resolve (which you may now combo with Adept, considering his Atk isn't stellar anymore), Astrid got a pretty significant boost base boost, same with Makalov & Danved.

By the by, I editted some things to characters like Edward, Ilyana and Heather. They're in the compromised list, check them out. (:

[Junkhead]

ENTER PART 3

amaigá, did someone say GMs!?

Ike

Aw yeah, we goin' there.

In all honesty...I think Ike is balanced. Think of it. In HM, he needs to get Spd constantly to double (even then 23 AS only really doubles in 3-1, 3-2 and believe it or not, not that much in 3-P). A Speedwings definitely fixes those issues, but even then, he doesn't have great 2-range or a lot of mobility to be anywhere near "broken". He's pretty much a faster version of a Warrior, with swords. And of course, his Part 4 stomp doesn't need to be mentioned. He's sort of like the exact opposite of Sothe.

EDIT: Forgot the Hero class can now wield Axes. This is quite big for Ike, actually...

Tiamat

Titania is a lot like Haar. Like, she's basically Haar without flight (and a slightly negligable durability issue). Give her a Speedwings, and she's just good to go. She's your go-to when you don't have Haar, and we're about to "fix" that!

When you look at her bases, her base Spd is actually harsh enough as it is, especially considering her really high level. She's super strong, she 2HKO's everything that isn't a General, has great mobility, good supports with people like Ike, Mist & Oscar. No Ilyana means no Speedwings, but that isn't her downfall. She still has BEXP to her back her up, and all she needs is +2 Spd and a Master Crown to pretty much cover her for Part 3. This is a first at what I'm doing here, but I'm actually giving her -2 Spd. This means she can still be pretty good, but she won't be super dominant until maybe the later half of Part 3.

Soren

Soren's always been super underrated, ee-mo. Have you ever supported him with Ike and gave him Resolve? It's no exactly the best of ideas when you face them in 3-13, however........

Yeah, I get it. Soren's stats are rather underwhelming. He's supposed to be 2HKO'ing enemies, at least, but he's borderline even in that aspect. He has plenty of BEXP potential with transfers or if you get him to a high level, but that's just far from optimal. Why would you even use Soren if you don't like him?

I've got a super simple buff for him. Simply, autolevel him to lvl. 10. Does it seem excessive? Far from it. Granted, he is given the opportunity to patch things up, like HP, Spd and Luck/Def (this latter, once HP's out of the way, you may use an Angelic Robe). He still has to work a bit for his levels, so it's not like he's auto-God Mode. Once he gets going, though...oh boy.

Mist

Just like Soren, once ought to ask themselves, why would you ever use Mist if you don't like her? She's adorable...and that's about it. Okay, she heals a bit, it's not a huge deal. And I guess she fits Alondite so well, that it just makes it worth using her in the end, I GUESS.

Right off the bat, I'm giving Mist Paragon. +2 Spd, so she doesn't get doubled anytime soon, allow her to promote with a Crown (just like any normal unit) AND, of course, the finishin touch- A MAGIC-BASED Florete.

Rolf

I tried using Rolf once in my life, and he wasn't bad, but he's...how should I put it, he's simply not Shinon. lol.

The only reason you'd ever want to use Rolf is because you think he's cute, his Triangle Attack with his brother and if you have some weird fetish for huge Str growths, like me. To be honest, I don't know a whole ton about Rolf. His bases are actually rather solid for a lvl. 1 unit, but it seems he'll have to wait forever to just get them going and take advantage of that massive Str. +2 Str/Skill/Spd, his transfers basically, help quite a bit. They allow him to double way sooner, base Adept (yes, I actually meant that).

If you really want to buff Rolf, take Shinon out of the game.

This is all, for night!

Edited November 25, 2015 by Soul o:

[MeteoSage]

Tiamat

Titania is a lot like Haar. Like, she's basically Haar without flight (and a slightly negligable durability issue). Give her a Speedwings, and she's just good to go. She's your go-to when you don't have Haar, and we're about to "fix" that!

When you look at her bases, her base Spd is actually harsh enough as it is, especially considering her really high level. She's super strong, she 2HKO's everything that isn't a General, has great mobility, good supports with people like Ike, Mist & Oscar. No Ilyana means no Speedwings, but that isn't her downfall. She still has BEXP to her back her up, and all she needs is +2 Spd and a Master Crown to pretty much cover her for Part 3. This is a first at what I'm doing here, but I'm actually giving her -2 Spd. This means she can still be pretty good, but she won't be super dominant until maybe the later half of Part 3.

Agreed. Her bases are shaky, but those offensive growths are high and BEXP basically makes her a god.

Soren

Soren's always been super underrated, ee-mo. Have you ever supported him with Ike and gave him Resolve? It's no exactly the best of ideas when you face them in 3-13, however........

Yeah, I get it. Soren's stats are rather underwhelming. He's supposed to be 2HKO'ing enemies, at least, but he's borderline even in that aspect. He has plenty of BEXP potential with transfers or if you get him to a high level, but that's just far from optimal. Why would you even use Soren if you don't like him?

I've got a super simple buff for him. Simply, autolevel him to lvl. 10. Does it seem excessive? Far from it. Granted, he is given the opportunity to patch things up, like HP, Spd and Luck/Def (this latter, once HP's out of the way, you may use an Angelic Robe). He still has to work a bit for his levels, so it's not like he's auto-God Mode. Once he gets going, though...oh boy.

I, for one, do not put Resolve on mage units. I can't bring myself to put them in danger for fear of overestimating their capabilities. I usually give them the defensive skills, like Cancel or Vantage. Is Resolve replacing adept? I suppose it would make a more reliable means of doubling than adept, but at the same time forcing you to put him in danger. I guess I can come to terms with it.

Mist

Just like Soren, once ought to ask themselves, why would you ever use Mist if you don't like her? She's adorable...and that's about it. Okay, she heals a bit, it's not a huge deal. And I guess she fits Alondite so well, that it just makes it worth using her in the end, I GUESS.

Right off the bat, I'm giving Mist Paragon. +2 Spd, so she doesn't get doubled anytime soon, allow her to promote with a Crown (just like any normal unit) AND, of course, the finishin touch- A MAGIC-BASED Florete.

I think Mist has a ton of potential, but is short-handed by the way Elincia is stacked. She doesn't have flight or the almighty Amiti, preventing her from being as effective in healing or offense. I feel like Florete should be a counter part to Amiti and also have the brave effect. She should still be too fragile to make her overly offensive, but it should make her a more viable unit against Elincia and her Amiti, who if given an energy drop and reaching the appropriate speed landmark, can do 50+ damage Ashera's auras. I can't find data on Ashera's auras. So, I'm not sure if I can 4x with Amiti in hard mode like I can in normal, nor do I remember if Elincia had capped Spd and whether Mist's lower cap would make the difference. I may have had Elincia positioned next to Nasir as well. Point is, Elincia is way too stacked for Mist to be viable, so I guess I don't care what changes are made. :P

Edited November 23, 2015 by MeteoSage

[Refa]

Good thing that Elincia and Mist are never competing for a slot until the tower then.

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

I have tried out Ike-support and resolve on Soren a few times. In 4-1 I placed him on the front line next to Ike just to see his dodging abilities.

It doesn't make him invulnerable. His luck is low and when he's on worst biorhythm the enemies still can hit him.

A crit can oneshot him so resolve wouldn't bring anything.

Resolve would be rather good for Boyd, because his speed and defense are low.

Rolf + 10 levels higher = Shinon

If people are still bothering with Rolf's base level, then give him paragon. Then he'll show that he's not worse than his teacher in the long run (which he isn't anyway). He doesn't need adept, because his base speed and growth are good enough.

I always use Rolf. And without giving bexp. he's even the better offensive bow user than Shinon.

Edited November 23, 2015 by Mister IceTeaPeach

[Refa]

In addition to what you (Soul) said about Rolf, I think you should make Rolf's Bow a prf for him and make it actually a legit weapon (I dunno, there are like a billion different ways to make a good bow proof). It'd make him something more (not better, but yeah) than a worse Shinon.

Edited November 23, 2015 by Refa

[Junkhead]

I, for one, do not put Resolve on mage units. I can't bring myself to put them in danger for fear of overestimating their capabilities. I usually give them the defensive skills, like Cancel or Vantage. Is Resolve replacing adept? I suppose it would make a more reliable means of doubling than adept, but at the same time forcing you to put him in danger. I guess I can come to terms with it.

No, Soren won't be having base Resolve to replace Adept. I already gave out Resolve to two Part 2 units. I'm respecting the amount of skill's initial limit, that way, we don't have everyone running around with base Resolve+Wraths, or something silly like that. There's a reason I was saving Geoffrey's initial Paragon for Mist. Although, I suppose I can understand your misunderstaning, as I've been Bold'ing all changes so far.

Resolve's actually a great tool for magic users. It gets them doubling and it aids their shaky durability quite a lot. You'd be surprised the wonders you can do with it, with someone like Rhys (mediocre Spd, huge Luck), for example.

I think Mist has a ton of potential, but is short-handed by the way Elincia is stacked. She doesn't have flight or the almighty Amiti, preventing her from being as effective in healing or offense. I feel like Florete should be a counter part to Amiti and also have the brave effect. She should still be too fragile to make her overly offensive, but it should make her a more viable unit against Elincia and her Amiti, who if given an energy drop and reaching the appropriate speed landmark, can do 50+ damage Ashera's auras.

Giving Mist not only a magic-based Florete, but also a Brave-effect, is kind of heavy-handed and excessive...lol. It's the worst of ideas to give Florete a Brave-effect, but it still doesn't do a ton for her. With her base 22 Atk, she's only doing 3-5 Dmg on enemies like Halberdier and Snipers and 6-7 Dmg on Warriors & SMs. I was thinking something along the lines of Wrath (not innate)+Ike/Titania Bond and she can maybe get something out of that, but her Atk scales reaaaally slowly, even when you include things like a Boyd support and an Energy Drop. Her Str growth is horrendous. Making a magic-based Florete really is the best option for her and everyone has been wanting that for ages (it's the go-to Mist fix, lol).

Bear in mind, the new Mist 3HKO's Generals AT BASE, so that's pretty much an extra mage, that heals and can do pretty cool things with something like Wrath+Ike support (not to mention, some extra Atk/Def).

I can't find data on Ashera's auras. So, I'm not sure if I can 4x with Amiti in hard mode like I can in normal, nor do I remember if Elincia had capped Spd and whether Mist's lower cap would make the difference. I may have had Elincia positioned next to Nasir as well. Point is, Elincia is way too stacked for Mist to be viable, so I guess I don't care what changes are made. :P

It's yet a long way 'til Endgame, so we tend to base a character's performance on the overall game, rather than what they're capable only towards the end of it.

Auras bear 90 HP/35 AS/Def, they're pretty tough.

Good thing that Elincia and Mist are never competing for a slot until the tower then.

Elincia is now arriving at 3-10. However, Mist is far more competent than her former self and I think she'd be at least equal to her.

I have tried out Ike-support and resolve on Soren a few times. In 4-1 I placed him on the front line next to Ike just to see his dodging abilities.

It doesn't make him invulnerable. His luck is low and when he's on worst biorhythm the enemies still can hit him.

A crit can oneshot him so resolve wouldn't bring anything.

A 20/4 with support Ike packs 130 Avo BEFORE Resolve (26*2+17+15+45). The highest Hit enemies have less than 40 Hit on him and there's like two of them (I think one's a SM and the other is a Sniper). A 20/4 Soren has 17 Luck and the only real enemies that are a threat to him is a Killer Bow Sniper. The SMs pack 24% Crit., that's only 7% on him and even less with my new setup (BEXP slowplay pretty much garantees +3 HP/Luck and at least +2 Def).

Resolve would be rather good for Boyd, because his speed and defense are low.

Not a bad idea, but he's not particularly bad at the durability department. It's true that his Def is on the lower side (but not low, by any means), but thanks to his gigantic HP (and even better growths at HP/Def), he's not actually suffering in that area. It's definitely a good setup, but I don't see him needing it after he gets rollin'.

Rolf + 10 levels higher = Shinon

If people are still bothering with Rolf's base level, then give him paragon. Then he'll show that he's not worse than his teacher in the long run (which he isn't anyway). He doesn't need adept, because his base speed and growth are good enough.

I always use Rolf. And without giving bexp. he's even the better offensive bow user than Shinon.

It's funny 'cuz it's true...never realized that, lol.

That fact that he needs at least 10 levels (11, actually...) to catchup to his master is the reason he's so much better than he is. Shinon's free, he's helping you out better than Rolf is for like half of Part 3. You can even early promote him and have him be of even further use (I had him take out the 3-4 boss for a 4-5 turn and 3-5 for a 1-turn). He has insane durability for a Sniper and only really loses in Str. I concede what you say about Rolf being able to catchup, but it's how he catches up (and when) that really makes all the difference in the world. Rolf definitely doesn't suck, though.

In addition to what you (Soul) said about Rolf, I think you should make Rolf's Bow a prf for him and make it actually a legit weapon (I dunno, there are like a billion different ways to make a good bow proof). It'd make him something more (not better, but yeah) than a worse Shinon.

Uh, yeah. Definitely.

EDIT: I feel like a dick, talking about turns and stuff. The last thing I want to do is scare players away, lol.

Edited November 23, 2015 by Soul o:

[Radiant head]

Normal Mode, I usually use both Rolf and Shinon, so that by Part 4 I have two godly marksmen and Hawk Army can use one of them. I don't use Rolf in hm, but then again, I only use like 4-5 characters in hm.

Objectively, he's not that worth using because of Shinon and the other GM's who don't need training, but short of making Rolf into a Shinon clone there's not much else you can do, and the need of training is sort of the point of his character story-wise.

Edited November 23, 2015 by Radiant head

[Junkhead]

Boyd

I think Boyd might just be one of the more powerful candidates when it comes to carrying Part 3 on your back, right after Haar, Titania and maaaaaaybe Oscar (they can be roughly equal with the right setup). He starts out as what could be the very definition of average. His Atk isn't stellar (but still pretty good), he doesn't double (but doesn't really get doubled, either) and his durability's pretty solid despite a lower-end Def base. He has a rather hard time to get going, but with the right resources and certain amount of patience and slight favoritism, he manages to make it all worth it (aka, an Angelic Robe and maybe a Secret Book and a Speedwings, pretty much a must).

For starters, +1 HP gets him right in the range to cap HP (his highest growth, which leaves you with Str, Def and Skill/Spd tied). +2 Skill & Spd, pretty easily. Even with a Spd transfer, 20 AS is still pretty low, but salvagable. This gets him in the range that he has an easier time to become a beast, but not enough to heavily outclass the rest (seeing as him doubling pretty marks a start of a new era). For skills, I am giving him Counter, as to follow the FE13 tradition of the Warrior class. (:

Osker

You know how you're usually given two horse-mounted knights? One that's strong and the other that's supposed to be speedy? Well, they got it right with Titania by making her pack a Donkey Punch. And while Oscar does pack a meaty 65% Spd growth...his Spd base is the exact same as Titania. And just who do you think will get the Speedwings/BEXP? The guy who can 3HKO or the mighty beast that can 2HKO pretty much anything? The story of Oscar's life.

For starters, Oscar deserves that +2 Spd he gets from transfers. He suddenly starts doubling and even manages to KO a few enemies with an extra +2 Str (which I'm not giving, for the sake of balancing purposes). That's pretty much it, really. With some extra Spd, he's only a proc and a Crown away from doubling throughout Part 3. Pack Adept on him and you've got yourself yet another powerful Part 3 candidate. For skills, I'll give him base Savior.

Shinon

Like keeping him locked from (not-shitty) 1-range wasn't balancing him enough as it is?

Sharin' this with you guys, 'cuz I love you guys:

Shinon is ridiculous

This is a clip of Shinon's epic story in Radiant Dawn. Starting in 3-P.

Shinon: Hey guys, what's up? Sorry I was so terrible in FE9, lemme pwn the crap out of everything in this game to make up for it.

Ike: Weird, I thought you had LOLBASES in FE9 and WTFGROWTHS. Why do you now have WTFBASES and WTFGROWTHS?

Shinon: By the way, you paladins, I outtank you. I have more HP/def/avoid/res than you. And I'm a sniper.

Titania; WTF? I thought we're the frontliners!

Oscar: I wanna jump off a cliff.

Shinon: Don't worry, I have WTFTHUNDER affinity and 45% def growth and a stupidly high def cap for some reason, so I'm gonna be outtanking you and 90% of the team for the entire game. I actually have the best HP/def combo of everyone in this little pack other than Ike and Gatrie. By the way, I double everything on the map. With crit. Give me a killer bow and the enemy's gone. Or some lightly forged steel bow. Actually, I could probably kill them with my fist. Or my pe-

Boyd: But you can't attack at 1-range!

Shinon: Haha, go try and plug up that chokepoint then.

Boyd: I'll show you! *dies*

Shinon: BY the way, Rolf, you're my apprentice, but you're never going to surpass me.

Rolf: What? But I thought the apprentice always surpasses the master!

Shinon: I'm mother****ing Obi-Wan.

Rolf: Then what's the point of me existing?

Shinon: To make me look good.


And then the story continues a little down the line, after Shinon promotes.

Shinon: Hey guys, what's up?

Boyd: You know what's up? You're dragging us down with your not countering and stuff!

Shinon: Oh yeah, about that. I just promoted, so now I can attack at 3-range.

Titania: WTF? As if giving you +crit and a mastery that takes up less capacity than others wasn't enough?

Shinon: Yeah, 3-range lets me attack an enemy from like 20 possible squares, so now I can basically position myself anywhere I want without getting out of formation. It's almost like I have canto without the drawbacks of a horse! I'm also never gonna get countered by anything on Player Phase. That includes dragons, Levail, Degh, Ashera, Han Solo, SlayerS_'Boxer', Andrew W.K., Gandalf the Grey, Gandalf the White, Monty Python and the Holy Grail's Black Knight...

*3 hours later*

Shinon: ...Rick Astley, Michael Jackson, LeBron James, and Captain Planet. Even MC Hammer can't touch me. The only thing that can hit me at 3-range is Snake's uptilt.

Gatrie: But you still can't counter at 1-range!

Shinon: Gatrie, there's a tree with a skirt over there.

Gatrie: Really?


And then the story continues, up until 4-E...

Shinon: Hey look this nub sniper was carrying the Double Bow. It's mine now.

Sothe: What the hell? It has 22 mt and +3 str and 1-2 range?

Shinon: Yeah. So now I can attack at 1-3 range with a 25 att bow, double everything with crit and deadeye chance, and I'm still mother****ing tanky. Move aside everyone, I have a map to solo.

Ike: Wtf? Shinon's better than me now!

Tibarn: Me too! And to think IS purposely tried to rig me and give me godly stats, and I'm not even the best in my part of the game! What's this bull-

Levail: Give me a break. At least you guys are fighting with Shinon!

All the generic enemies in the map: But strength in numbers! If we all fight Shinon at the same time, surely he'll die!

Shinon: LOLNO

*Shinon solos the map*

Ike: FFFFFFFFFFFFF-


Moral of the story: If Shinon had 1-range options outside of Double Bow that didn't suck ass (aka not crappy crossbows), he probably would've been better than Haar, and certainly better than Ike.

I'm literally laughing outloud.

Gatrie

Wyvern Lord Gatrie, gogogo!

Gatrie's so good, and yet, so underrated. You're given a badass General that packs 60% Str, Spd AND Def growths...like, isn't that enough, to say the least? His bases are from shabby, as well. Much like Titania, he pretty much 2HKO's everything, never dies, can also use Axes and is only truly drawn back by low mobility. That's easily fixable with Celerity.

No changes for this fellow.

Rhys

Rhys is like Mist, except he heals a little better and will get doubled forever instead. Great exchange, isn't it?

Unlike Micaiah who has the pleasure of being of use through pot-shotting (aka, Thanibombing) and healing, Rhys just isn't really *necessary* for the team. Like, you may argue that not much other than Ike is truly "necessary", but that doesn't change the fact that the GMs aren't really having much of a hard time surviving and dealing with enemies, unlike the DB.

For starters, I feel like slapping Pass on the poor guy. He's doing that bad. Second, he'd really benefit from a simple auto-level. lvl. 12, maybe? +3 HP/+2 Spd, right off the bat. He'd be packing 19 AS, with hopes of getting somewhere, someday (now that he can potentially BEXP Spd up, as well).

Mia

Mia's so good, lol.

Randulf

Randulf is such a capable unit, but it sucks he's "heavily limited" by Cat gauge. I don't think it's THAT bad, but then again, I've yet to use Cats consistently again.

I'd put him at lvl. 29, that way he has +1 Spd (allows him to double in Wildheart form) as well as it does put him only a level away from Rend. This way, he is closer to Janaff and Ulki. Despite lacking flight and suffering from a Cat gauge, there's not a whole much I can do for him.

Pretty eager to see what I do with Kyza next time around. :3

EDIT: Gave Lethe a new, interesting buff. Hope you guys like it as much as I do.

Edited November 25, 2015 by Soul o:

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

Actually I was kinda thinking of giving counter to Boyd, because he'll get seriously hurt by physical and magical attacks.

Honestly 20 base speed for level 8 is still pretty mediocre. It's the same speed of enemy warriors.

Sounds fair at the first sight, but most the allies have way higher base speed than the enemies have.

Actually Boyd is the least usable unit of the GMs for me. Only killer axe and bond supports can make him good, but it requires other not so great units and luck. He's outclassed as axe user by Titania, Gatrie and Haar later.

Edited November 24, 2015 by Mister IceTeaPeach

[Refa]

If you're balancing the game, I don't see why you can't fix the problems inherent with laguz (cat laguz in particular).

[Gryz]

For starters, I feel like slapping Pass on the poor guy. He's doing that bad.

Uhh... huh? Did you mean Pavise? I don't understand why Rhys would want Pass.

[MeteoSage]

I'm sure Boyd says a hearty thank you. Those shaky bases make him vulnerable to RNG screwage. My Boyd's are almost always speed troubled and the halberdiers in 3-5 like to double him.

Poor Oscar. So inferior statwise. Dat Earth affinity though. I've paired him with Ike on hard mode, and the pair are currently ripping through the dragons of Endgame 3 as I type. Fortunately for the sake of balance, Oscar still can't kill most things in 2 hits, so the added speed means he does better chip damage as others catch up and his shaky defense can get a much needed BEXP boost, although not that it's needed with the Earth affinity.

Edited November 24, 2015 by MeteoSage

[Radiant head]

Actually I was kinda thinking of giving counter to Boyd, because he'll get seriously hurt by physical and magical attacks.

Honestly 20 base speed for level 8 is still pretty mediocre. It's the same speed of enemy warriors.

Sounds fair at the first sight, but most the allies have way higher base speed than the enemies have.

Actually Boyd is the least usable unit of the GMs for me. Only killer axe and bond supports can make him good, but it requires other not so great units and luck. He's outclassed as axe user by Titania, Gatrie and Haar later.

Yeah I used to try hard to make Boyd work because of how good he is in PoR, but his speed base makes him stick out like a sore thumb. And there are too many other good axe users for me to care about him. By the time he can take advantage of his speed growth, Jill makes him obsolete in the tower. Now days I just dump him for Janaff.

Funny thing is I gave him counter before I found out that awakening made that a default warrior skill.

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

My Boyd's are almost always speed troubled and the halberdiers in 3-5 like to double him.

The halberdiers in 3-5 have up to 21 speed. Even Boyd with base speed can't get doubled.

I think the few warriors (who tend to be faster than the halberdiers)can have 22 speed in this chapter.

Halberdiers start to have >=22 speed in 3-8.

Boyd is outclassed by Nolan. Worse speed, worse affinity, no skill and no personal weapon. He's the unit of the GMs, who needs the most buffs.

Edited November 24, 2015 by Mister IceTeaPeach

[Refa]

That's only if you train Nolan. I think it's completely fair that a growth unit outclasses a bases unit when trained.

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

The thing is that Nolan is way more needed than Boyd.

BTW I forgot to add his personal weapon.

[Refa]

I never use Nolan after the first few chapters and I manage well enough. Pretty sure I used Boyd longer even though I bench him too.

[Phantom037]

He's the unit of the GMs, who needs the most buffs.

Mist exists

[Radiant head]

Mist can still do her healing role, whereas Boyd can't do his killing job that well.

[Phantom037]

Mist can still do her healing role, whereas Boyd can't do his killing job that well.

Mist struggles to be better than "a Rhys that can't chip", whereas Boyd's biggest issue is just iffy speed. Edited November 24, 2015 by Phantom037

[Radiant head]

I guess I don't understand why either are needed for chipping. It's not like the GM is understaffed on fire power. I've never used Mist for anything, but healing, and never felt the need to.

[Dunal]

[Observes thread for notes]

I'd like to think I'm fairly accommodating when it comes to feedback for ReDux. So feel free to put any input towards that. I do hope to create a definitive balance hack for everyone to enjoy. I'm really interested in a discussion in unit identities (what a unit should be good/bad at), since I've already gone through a number of iterations for some units myself (Such as Danved).

I'm interested in the OP's opinion of Micaiah more than anything. I always felt that, as a main character, she should be given a spotlight when it comes to potential -- instead of insultingly being demoted to a generic healer. If anything, that's the number one thing I immediately looked at. The game's story hypes her as some near-perfect, incredible being when gameplay-wise she's anything but. Would be Intrigued to hear if anyone disagrees with that.

While balance is important I respect story/dialogue translating to gameplay. Which the game missed the mark on in many ways (Someone like Meg is known to be able to lift a full grown cow, but her STR is bad...Her LCK is amazing, but she fails to get the man she spent so much time searching for).

Edited November 24, 2015 by DLuna