Video FE10 HM LTC (expected ~125 turns)

[ruadath]

1-E: 4 turns

Redone one more time so that Paragon can be sent to the GMs to get Shinon, Boyd and Mia's levels up (Shinon is important for 1-turning 4-E-5). Adept + RNG abuse will take the place of Beastfoe for Jill.

Ilyana is carrying: Celerity, Savior, Statue Frag (for 3-11), Blue Gem, Discipline > Brave Sword, Hammer, Ashera Icon (for extra cash if needed), Pass and Resolve.

3-2: 2 turns

Skill distribution: Adept Boyd, Paragon Haar, Celerity Titania. Haar got Paragon because I wanted him to get to 29 strength before promoting him (he has a lot of strength benchmarks for chapters) and he took out a bunch of enemies in the east side with a Killer Axe. Boyd got the boss kill with a Tomahawk crit.

3-3: 4 turns

Skill distribution: Pass + Counter Boyd, Celerity Haar, Savior Titania, Adept + Provoke Ike, Paragon Mia.

3-6: 6 turns

Skill distribution: Wrath Micaiah, Adept Jill.

Zihark is carrying: Wildheart, Master Crown, 2 Coins, Laura's Physic staff since she hit B rank this chapter with it.

3-E: 3 turns

Resources used: A bunch of max crit Hand Axes and Javelins made (some with no crit).

Skill distribution: Paragon Shinon Mia Tanith, Provoke Mia, Celerity Haar, Resolve + Pass Boyd (only Pass is necessary though, and maybe not even Pass), Smite + Wildheart Ulki

I think you have some holes in your story. Where is the extra paragon coming from? Did you transfer it or not?

I assume you must have (there's no reason to keep it with the DB), but the fact that you left it off of your transfer list both times is suspicious.

[Camilla]

I think you have some holes in your story. Where is the extra paragon coming from? Did you transfer it or not?

I assume you must have (there's no reason to keep it with the DB), but the fact that you left it off of your transfer list both times is suspicious.

Paragon was originally with Jill but the chapter was redone to give it to Ilyana instead. Notice that there are 7 items that have to be left in the inventory (Blue Gem, Discipline, Statue Frag, Hammer, Ashera Icon, Pass, Resolve) since Ilyana has the capacity for Celerity + Savior meaning there is 1 slot left for Paragon. People aren't robots; they forget things sometimes.

Sorry ruadath, but the only liar here is you. You shouldn't call people "blatant liars" while lying yourself. You know this is just a video game in the end, right? We would have been happy to see you try and improve on Chiki's run if not for your attitude (lying about expecting 38 turns and ripping off Chiki's strategies in every video game he has records just to improve them ever-so-slightly with RNG abuse).

Mistakes happen in every playthrough, and you can always slightly improve on someone else's LTC run, maybe by cutting a turn, maybe by using less resources, maybe by not using a character like Shinon for 4-E-5, etc. It is not impressive to steal all of someone else's strategies and then do a small improvement. In fact, it is a trivial accomplishment and no one cares: it would be enough to just tell the person who did the run that it can be slightly improved. No one on this forum cares about it but you. Even if you did improve Chiki's run by a turn or two, I am sure that he would not care because you know, humans aren't robots and it's normal to make mistakes, especially in a large playthrough such as this. The way you play does not make you a good FE player; it just makes you an unoriginal tryhard.

Edited January 9, 2016 by Camilla

[ruadath]

Paragon was originally with Jill but the chapter was redone to give it to Ilyana instead. Notice that there are 7 items that have to be left in the inventory (Blue Gem, Discipline, Statue Frag, Hammer, Ashera Icon, Pass, Resolve) since Ilyana has the capacity for Celerity + Savior meaning there is 1 slot left for Paragon. People aren't robots; they forget things sometimes.

There are only 7 inventory slots, so this excuse doesn't work. You'll have to come up with a better lie.

[Gradivus.]

it just makes you an unoriginal tryhard.

One can buy this when it comes to the FE8 9 and 13 playthroughs but it makes no sense here, the fact that Chiki was doing an LTC playthrough actively wasn't brought up before this thread was started and the room for improvement (compared to the previous 155?-turn) isn't as marginal here.

Also, ruadath told me via PM that he confirmed two turnshaves (I'm supposed to keep the specifics secret, but man one can intuit it anyway so what's the point), and he somehow doesn't want to say it in public for now, but why not wait and see on your own if it's true instead of jumping on it just because you/the person you're representing failed to explore it enough?

Edited January 9, 2016 by Gradivus.

[Camilla]

One can buy this when it comes to the FE8 9 and 13 playthroughs but it makes no sense here, the fact that Chiki was doing an LTC playthrough actively wasn't brought up before this thread was started and the room for improvement (compared to the previous 155?-turn) isn't as marginal here.

Also, ruadath told me via PM that he confirmed two turnshaves (I'm supposed to keep the specifics secret, but man one can intuit it anyway so what's the point), and he somehow doesn't want to say it in public for now, but why not wait and see on your own if it's true instead of jumping on it just because you/the person you're representing failed to explore it enough?

Also, even if 1-6-1 is 2-turned you can't get the Arms Scroll which is needed for 1-turning 3-13 (you completely run out of money by 1-E). If Chiki, dondon and 56282508 can't figure out what else can be improved, there's something fishy going on here. Judging from the fact that he has Jill pick up hidden treasure, he hasn't 2-turned 1-6-1 (since the only time she needs to is the 1-6-1 Arms Scroll and she can't kill an archer at base with an Hand Axe at turn 2 EP, the archer has 10 def and 26 hp while she has 21 might).

The room for improvement is marginal now, since 131 turns has already been done. Also notice how he changed his thread title right after Chiki finished his. It starts to make sense once you notice that he's trying to be as obnoxious as possible.

There are only 7 inventory slots, so this excuse doesn't work. You'll have to come up with a better lie.

Ok then, he told me he replaced the Hammer with Paragon. You really like to point out minor nitpicks it seems.

Edited January 10, 2016 by Camilla

[Nintales]

Camilla and Rudy, come on, this is not fun to fight. This thread has been made at first -if I'm right- with the intent to see how fast can be done FE10. It has not been done for LTCers to go at each other's throats.

Anyways, where can you actually cut turns in P-1?

The only chapters where it seems possible are 1-3 (few pushes), 1-6-1 and -maybe- 3-turning 1-7?

I need to confirm it for 1-7, but can't you recruit Tormod on Turn 2, kill one of the mages at the ledge with RNG abuse, climb it up with Vika (carrying Micaiah), drop her with Muarim, then shove her a while and kill the boss with Muarim?

Just need to check if anything is doable.

EDIT : Made a mistake, ledge is probably too far for Vika to reach it.

EDIT 2 : Maybe in fact it is doable with Savior!Jill to give Micaiah to Muarim. Everyone goes right while shoving WindEdge!Edward/Zihark with Volug and Sothe at the lead while Jill carries Micaiah. Turn 2 Eddy/Zihark kills one mage at the ledge. Then Muarim goes up the ledge and drops Micaiah who has to dodge a few attacks. Muarim proceeds to kill the boss at turn 3 while Volug and Vika shove Micaiah to the exit. Can Rudy or Chiki confirm if it's doable?

EDIT 3 : She needs 5 shoves in order to actually reach the throne I think. Eddy/Volug/Vika could push her, but I think it stops there. Sad. D:

Edited January 10, 2016 by Nintales

[dondon151]

muarim can't even go up the right ledge on turn 2; he doesn't have enough movement. gaps cost 2 for transformed beast tribe.

i'm 99% sure that 1-6-1 is 2-turnable in a vacuum; the challenge now apparently is that the arms scroll can't be obtained for reasons mentioned above and/or jill doesn't get enough EXP to kill the 1-6-2 boss. the arms scroll could be skipped if 3-11 can be 3-turned without using a statue frag.

instapromoted jill can ORKO that archer. chiki is not amenable to that idea because of how much worse she'll be for 3-6, but maybe massive RNG abuse can make up for that.

also if you have another unit in range who is about to be killed, enemies should prioritize that unit over jill even if jill can't counter.

Edited January 10, 2016 by dondon151

[ruadath]

EDIT 2 : Maybe in fact it is doable with Savior!Jill to give Micaiah to Muarim. Everyone goes right while shoving WindEdge!Edward/Zihark with Volug and Sothe at the lead while Jill carries Micaiah. Turn 2 Eddy/Zihark kills one mage at the ledge. Then Muarim goes up the ledge and drops Micaiah who has to dodge a few attacks. Muarim proceeds to kill the boss at turn 3 while Volug and Vika shove Micaiah to the exit. Can Rudy or Chiki confirm if it's doable?

Are you sure that Muarim can make it onto the ledge? Even if he can, he's a space short of making it to the boss on turn 3...

EDIT:

muarim can't even go up the right ledge on turn 2; he doesn't have enough movement. gaps cost 2 for transformed beast tribe.

i'm 99% sure that 1-6-1 is 2-turnable in a vacuum; the challenge now apparently is that the arms scroll can't be obtained for reasons mentioned above and/or jill doesn't get enough EXP to kill the 1-6-2 boss. the arms scroll could be skipped if 3-11 can be 3-turned without using a statue frag.

Looks like I got ninja'd lol. Picking up the Arms Scroll isn't a problem. Also, if you give Jill a +4/+5 Mt Iron Axe, she gets plenty of EXP on the first turn on 1-6-2.

EDIT 2 (responding to dondon's edit):

I don't know what archer you are talking about. I didn't have any trouble with that. Didn't instapromote Jill.

EDIT 3:

Ah, I know what you're problem is. And I know how to fix it... But you'll have to wait to see how!

Edited January 10, 2016 by ruadath

[dondon151]

the archer to the right of the cursor

also the thunder mage

[ruadath]

Wait, what the heck? I thought I knew what was going on, but you did this differently from me it seems.

What are the different colored arrows supposed to mean?

Also, the archer doesn't move when I do my thing, so this isn't really a problem for me. Not sure what you're doing.

Edited January 10, 2016 by ruadath

[dondon151]

i was telling chiki where to shove and move sothe as proof of concept that sothe can indeed kill the priest on turn 2

the armor knight at the bottom is supposed to be dead already

EDIT: well then post a screenshot if the archer didn't move. there are only so many ways to reach the priest on turn 2. i have a hunch that the archer has the AI where he only moves if a target is within twice its movement range.

Edited January 10, 2016 by dondon151

[ruadath]

i was telling chiki where to shove and move sothe as proof of concept that sothe can indeed kill the priest on turn 2

the armor knight at the bottom is supposed to be dead already

I kind of screwed this up too (and was too lazy to redo it), but you probably want to put Sothe in the thicket so that the tougher armor knight doesn't get Def bonuses (saves you forges, or Adept procs). It doesn't really matter if you have RNG abuse.

[dondon151]

i don't have a file to work with. i'm basically theorycrafting this whole thing in my head. i only had the screenshot because chiki supplied me with it.

[ruadath]

Imgur's link is not working properly for me (maybe because I cropped the image?), but I can't embed the png like I normally do, so just take a look at the website.

http://imgur.com/gQldPkh

Cropped to avoid spoilers, of course.

Unfortunately, the AI in this game confuses me, so I can't give explanations as to why he does or does not move.

Edited January 10, 2016 by ruadath

[dondon151]

well that's weird. does the archer move even if that armor knight is killed? what you have is essentially exactly what i diagrammed with the x's and arrows.

[ruadath]

I have no idea. I'll check later.

[Yojinbo]

@dondon

What does Jill need to kill the 1-6-2 boss for? IIRC ###s does it with Tauroneo and his Jill never fell short of being able to do anything he'd need her for.

If Chiki, dondon and 56282508 can't figure out what else can be improved, there's something fishy going on here.

Fwiw rudy also figured out stuff by himself in HHM that neither General Horace nor Lapogne could get [a 3-turn strat of Ch.12 + 4-turning Ch.13 while recruiting Guy].

[General Horace]

there's a fine line between figuring out something that involves landing multiple sub 50% hits and low %'s crits and discovering new strategies, I remember his first thread was bettering my old FE8 run by one turn by critkilling bandits on montains with base Vanessa in FE8. Is that really strategy?. I've kinda given up on LTC play lately because its more or less coming down to "if it's physically possible it's being done" rather than "as reliably as possible within reason"

I can't really comment on said FE10 run though, the only thing I know about FE10 is it sucks Fiona's a chump.

[Camilla]

well that's weird. does the archer move even if that armor knight is killed? what you have is essentially exactly what i diagrammed with the x's and arrows.

The archer doesn't move if the Javelin knight is left alive, like in his picture.

But he 100% moves if killed.

Edited January 10, 2016 by Camilla

[dondon151]

okay, in that case, if you leave javelin guy alive, jill can kill him with a hand axe on turn 2 while picking up the arms scroll. she'll have the hand axe equipped to finish off the thunder mage, but the archer won't be in range.

that leaves only the tauroneo problem with the enemies in the top right. however, since you have promoted ilyana, you still have 8 other shovers, with zihark being unavailable to shove on turn 1. therefore you can still get the 7 shoves without tauroneo contributing a shove, so he can just move to the top right.

archer guy probably has the AI that i described above. if the javelin guy is left alive, he doesn't think that he can attack sothe within 2 turns, therefore he doesn't move.

Edited January 10, 2016 by dondon151

[Camilla]

okay, in that case, if you leave javelin guy alive, jill can kill him with a hand axe on turn 2 while picking up the arms scroll. she'll have the hand axe equipped to finish off the thunder mage, but the archer won't be in range.

that leaves only the tauroneo problem with the enemies in the top right. however, since you have promoted ilyana, you still have 8 other shovers, with zihark being unavailable to shove on turn 1. therefore you can still get the 7 shoves without tauroneo contributing a shove, so he can just move to the top right.

archer guy probably has the AI that i described above. if the javelin guy is left alive, he doesn't think that he can attack sothe within 2 turns, therefore he doesn't move.

Chiki confirmed that this strategy works.

He doesn't really think it's worth the effort to restart the playthrough, though. An underleveled Adept Jill in 3-6 and 3-12 would be more RNG abuse than he can bare, and maybe even impossible if the laguz have 100 hit on Jill.

Edited January 10, 2016 by Camilla

[dondon151]

~nice~

restarting the playthrough for 1 turn isn't worth it if theoretical maximum RNG abuse solves most problems. i don't know where the other turn save in part 1 comes from, maybe 1-3. did you figure anything out for 4-E-1?

[Camilla]

~nice~

restarting the playthrough for 1 turn isn't worth it if theoretical maximum RNG abuse solves most problems. i don't know where the other turn save in part 1 comes from, maybe 1-3. did you figure anything out for 4-E-1?

No progress on that yet, maybe ever. It's harder than any other chapter in the game to figure out.

Do you guys have any ideas on 3-turning 1-3?

On turn 3, someone (maybe Ilyana) should kill the armor knight, while Sothe should kill the archer so Micaiah can arrive. Sothe needs 2 shoves to drop Micaiah at a point where she can arrive on turn 2. Ilyana needs to be quite far to be able to kill the armor knight, which is an issue, since she's also the best candidate to kill the 2 archers on turn 1.

Btw, how is 1-6-1 going to be 2-turned without Aran? The 1-6-1 2 turn strategy requires Aran.

http://imgur.com/a/ht25l

Edward needs 4 shoves at level 8 to kill the general with 2 Steel Sword crits but can only get shoved 3 times (Laura can't reach, so Ilyana, Leonardo and Nolan will shove him). It's literally one shove away from a 3-turn.

Edited January 10, 2016 by Camilla

[ruadath]

Do you guys have any ideas on 3-turning 1-3?

I've already 3 turned it.

Btw, how is 1-6-1 going to be 2-turned without Aran? The 1-6-1 2 turn strategy requires Aran.

No it doesn't.

[Gradivus.]

Maybe you should just post the strats (or at least the gist of them) and not try to build up some sort of unnecessary fake suspense by postponing it until you post videos of them

Edited January 10, 2016 by Gradivus.