Video FE10 HM LTC (expected ~125 turns)

[ruadath]

Why? Suspense is a good thing, isn't it?

Well, you already know the gist of 1-6-1, and I'll say that level 7 Steel Sword!Edward double crits the knight in 1-3. Nothing beyond that, though.

[ruadath]

While you're pondering that, here is 1-2:

Pretty much the same as before, except that I placed Micaiah in a slightly more dangerous position for additional EXP. Also, I was lazy while recording and didn't get Edward a great level on turn 3 PP, but later reset a bunch of times until he did, although it doesn't really matter anyway. The next few videos will have a few minor post-recording edits such as this one.

[Gradivus.]

Why? Suspense is a good thing, isn't it?

Not if the effect of people getting more excited/interested isn't achieved

Like, you're making these videos at a fairly irregular rate, telling everyone "I'll probably have 129 turns, looks like part 1 can be shaved by 2 turns" which makes it just look weird that you're hesitating that much to provide information when people ask. I mean it's not like I'd throw the information through the area but I'd just say at the start "I found improvements in two part 1 chapters" and specify slightly if someone wants me to, there's nothing harmful in that. Also, if you ramble in the topic about planning and nobody can really understand it, people are likely to think "wtf?" which I wouldn't really class as a good thing.

Also, there's nothing negative to stating something like "Redid for the steel sword" just under the 1-1 video. Making your stuff easier to understand is better for the viewer's pleasure.

Edited January 10, 2016 by Gradivus.

[56282508]

there's a fine line between figuring out something that involves landing multiple sub 50% hits and low %'s crits and discovering new strategies, I remember his first thread was bettering my old FE8 run by one turn by critkilling bandits on montains with base Vanessa in FE8. Is that really strategy?. I've kinda given up on LTC play lately because its more or less coming down to "if it's physically possible it's being done" rather than "as reliably as possible within reason"

agree+1

Edited January 10, 2016 by 56282508

[ruadath]

Not if the effect of people getting more excited/interested isn't achieved

Like, you're making these videos at a fairly irregular rate, telling everyone "I'll probably have 129 turns, looks like part 1 can be shaved by 2 turns" which makes it just look weird that you're hesitating that much to provide information when people ask. I mean it's not like I'd throw the information through the area but I'd just say at the start "I found improvements in two part 1 chapters" and specify slightly if someone wants me to, there's nothing harmful in that. Also, if you ramble in the topic about planning and nobody can really understand it, people are likely to think "wtf?" which I wouldn't really class as a good thing.

Also, there's nothing negative to stating something like "Redid for the steel sword" just under the 1-1 video. Making your stuff easier to understand is better for the viewer's pleasure.

Sorry, if that's how it's getting perceived. I thought I did say something about the Steel Sword in the YouTube description though.

As for the rate of the videos, they've been made through 1-7 or something like that already; the problem is just uploading them, since I don't have the bandwidth I need at home (for reference, the GBA videos take me ~90 minutes to upload here, while they take ~5 minutes at college). I'm also using my laptop for a part time job, etc., and my desktop is shared by my family, so I can't go nuts uploading stuff until I get back in a couple of weeks.

The RNG abuse on some of these videos is also nontrivial.

Fwiw rudy also figured out stuff by himself in HHM that neither General Horace nor Lapogne could get [a 3-turn strat of Ch.12 + 4-turning Ch.13 while recruiting Guy].

FWIW, the 3 turn of Ch. 12 was inspired by a suggestion from MoogleBoss (Espinosa). I did like the 3 turn of Ch. 14 though.

Edited January 10, 2016 by ruadath

[Gradivus.]

I'm not complaining about you having technical difficulties nor am I too concerned about getting an apology for suboptimal presentation

Something I'm more skeptical about is if you'll actually keep that advice in mind for the future instead of just saying "oh sorry" and proceeding with little change

Edited January 11, 2016 by Gradivus.

[Camilla]

agree+1

His second thread was improving on Chiki's 112 turn FE9 HM playthrough by paying his little brother money to improve Chapter 2 by restarting constantly to get multiple 2% critical hits with Ike. Everyone already knew about how that chapter could be improved though. We had a good laugh.

Edited January 10, 2016 by Camilla

[ruadath]

Actually, my first thread was the Max Tactician Stars playthrough of FE7 (which I didn't end up finishing because it got too complicated; hoping to get back to it one day)

Sorry, but do you really think it's impressive to rip off someone else's strategies which take time and effort to discover and just slightly improve them by shaving off a turn or two because you're willing to reset endlessly? It just makes you look like a tryhard.

Btw, assuming a 1-3 3 turn is impossible, none of your trivial improvements matter since 40 is the lowest possible turncount for Part 1. Also, assuming a 1-3 3 turn is impossible, you won't be able to improve on Chiki's playthrough at all, since he already got the lowest turncounts.

This certainly sounds like a well-mannered individual who knows what they're talking about.

I think I've been fairly tolerant toward your stupidity and obnoxious behavior (such as hijacking a thread that was clearly meant for my playthrough with no reason other than to disrupt it). However, I refuse to let you bully me out of doing my own playthrough (started before yours) on my own thread by posting comments such as the one above, and if you continue to do so, I will continue to respond in kind.

EDIT: Oh and let's not forget

1-9: 3 turns is likely impossible, because someone probably needs Pass for the previous chapter.

3-P: 5 turns is certainly impossible.

3-12: Impossible to do in 1 turn. Jill and Tauroneo just can't reach the enemies.

3-13: Laura needs to be a Saint to be able to kill Ike with no HP or Res transfers or level ups. Micaiah and Jill need that bexp, which Laura is not going to get. A 2 turn is impossible.

3-E: Impossible to improve on this.

Edited January 10, 2016 by ruadath

[Junkhead]

there's a fine line between figuring out something that involves landing multiple sub 50% hits and low %'s crits and discovering new strategies, I remember his first thread was bettering my old FE8 run by one turn by critkilling bandits on montains with base Vanessa in FE8. Is that really strategy?. I've kinda given up on LTC play lately because its more or less coming down to "if it's physically possible it's being done" rather than "as reliably as possible within reason"

I think its fine to a certain degree, like rigging a 2 50% to dodge and stuff like rigging a 30% crit. on the first turn.

[General Horace]

yes. but that rarely happens in playthroughs anymore, especially earlygame. I understand that earlygame requires a lot of rng manipulation to complete quickly since everyones stats are low, but the level of some stuff is just crazy.

[Junkhead]

In my runs I go reasonably with those. Like, the craziest thing was probably having Edward Wrath twice when he needed it (+54-55% crit.).

[ruadath]

Kind of off-topic, but thought I should respond to this

I've kinda given up on LTC play lately because its more or less coming down to "if it's physically possible it's being done" rather than "as reliably as possible within reason"

I'm really sorry to hear that, especially since (I think) I've tried to model my FE7 LTC play style on your runs (limiting RN burns when rigging, etc.) which I really enjoyed watching (parts of, never saw the whole thing of either one).

[Mekkah]

This thread really makes me appreciate Horace's chill attitude about LTC and everything.

Tiki, can you please make a choice regarding post perspective? Either just use first person or go with "Tiki says".

[Yojinbo]

yes. but that rarely happens in playthroughs anymore, especially earlygame. I understand that earlygame requires a lot of rng manipulation to complete quickly since everyones stats are low, but the level of some stuff is just crazy.

What can you do though? You either suck it up and deal with the fact that massive rng abuse is needed for ideal turncounts [like rudy does], you accept that your run can be improved and play it with reasonable amounts of rng abuse regardless [like you do] or you just accept that LTC is just kind of dumb and give up on it [like I did with FE4].

I don't think you can fault anybody for their choice though. It's a matter of personal preference and if rudy has no problem doing things his way then you can take it or leave it. I wouldn't do it his way but I definitely enjoy his videos and if he has the patience required then more power to him.

I agree with Gradivus though that a more organized approach would be good.

[Camilla]

It's not normal, in fact it's incredibly unhealthy, to take a video game this seriously. If you find it offensive to use your thread titled "FE10 HM LTC" (and not "FE10 HM LTC playthrough") for someone else's playthrough, and if you honestly think that is "bullying," I wonder if you have experienced what real bullying is.

A lot of people thought FE10 HM LTC in under 180 turns was impossible just a few years ago, until Chiki did it in 155 turns. I guess they must have been super stupid according to you? Coming up with new amazing creative and original strategies which greatly cut turncounts is why people like LTCing: because of originality and creativity. What seems impossible one day is possible the next: people enjoy LTCing because some clears seem impossible and then they are possible with new and original and interesting strategies.

And that is what you have zero respect for: you shamelessly steal other people's strategies and use minor very low% improvements that are mostly really easy to figure out (like Chapter 2 FE9, 1-P 1-1 1-2 FE10, ones people already pointed out in FE8 and FE7). Ripping off people's time and effort coming up with new strategies is insulting since you're taking the easy way out by not figuring things out yourself. In real life, if you plagiarized people's time and effort like this, you'd be in a lot more trouble, but fortunately this just a video game. Plagiarism even in a video game makes people not want to post their strategies at all, and maybe LTC players should start removing their Youtube videos and written strategies.

You hack the game to RNG abuse and lie about it by saying that your Sothe's luck transfer was glitched, meaning that no one can ever trust that your clears are genuine (for example, how can we know your Laura's stats aren't hacked in your 1-2 video? You're not someone who should be trusted.); you purposefully steal other people's strategies while admitting it (like in the Awakening LTC thread where you said you didn't even know what Galeforce was and that you would use Chiki's playthrough as a guide); you pay people to RNG abuse for you when you don't have the patience to do so; you call people stupid over strategies in a video game (when even you have called certain strategies "probably impossible" in the past), you accuse people of lying about minor trivial things like transferring Paragon to the GMs (why would anyone lie about something like that? It's trivial) ; as others have pointed out, you act ridiculously when you figure out a strategy (when Chiki figured out a 1-4 2 turn and you didn't, the first thing we did was tell you.). You even made a well known LTC player quit the game with your unoriginality.

The only reason people play FE and come up with original strategies is for fun, but you've ruined the game for every LTC player. Stealing almost all of other people's strategies and then doing a trivial low% improvement by resetting endlessly is not fun. You have no respect for the time and effort that other LTC players go through to come up with some really complicated strategies. If you were being a decent person, instead of ruining every LTC player's fun, you'd take their advice and do original LTC playthroughs like an Awakening 0% playthrough or something like that.

Tiki, can you please make a choice regarding post perspective? Either just use first person or go with "Tiki says".

In case you aren't aware, I live with Chiki. He just doesn't like this forum very much so he doesn't want to go on it. Unlike him, I want to post when Fates comes out. Why is it wrong for me to post what his strategies are when he wants me to? I like to play Radiant Dawn as well. I share many people's opinions on ruadath's stealing strategies from people and doing minor improvements. I could even post picture proof that we live together if you wish.

What can you do though? You either suck it up and deal with the fact that massive rng abuse is needed for ideal turncounts [like rudy does], you accept that your run can be improved and play it with reasonable amounts of rng abuse regardless [like you do] or you just accept that LTC is just kind of dumb and give up on it [like I did with FE4].

If that were all he were doing, it would be ok. He's not being criticized for that though; he's also taking all of other people's strategies which is really disrespectful. If this weren't a video game it would have much more serious consequences.

Edited January 11, 2016 by Camilla

[Mekkah]

In case you aren't aware, I live with Chiki. He just doesn't like this forum very much so he doesn't want to go on it. Unlike him, I want to post when Fates comes out. Why is it wrong for me to post what his strategies are when he wants me to? I like to play Radiant Dawn as well. I share many people's opinions on ruadath's stealing strategies from people and doing minor improvements. I could even post picture proof that we live together if you wish.

I'm aware and do not doubt that you two live together and both enjoy playing FE. However, within this thread the posts by Camilla have switched several times from Camilla's perspective to Chiki's and back. Either you're being a very helpful typist for him or he's simply using your account. The mods are obviously tolerating this because there's no harm done as long as the posts remain within this thread. So there's no need to jump back and forth between "Chiki has told me that 1-6-2 Jill can reach the Javelin Armor on turn 2 while finding the Arm's Scroll" and "I know that 1-6-2 Jill can reach the Javelin Armor on turn 2 while finding the Arm's Scroll".

Unless, of course, Camilla is also this interested in LTCing. In which case, mea culpa.

Ripping off people's time and effort coming up with new strategies is insulting since you're taking the easy way out by not figuring things out yourself.

I don't think ruadath is taking anything away from other LTCers by doing his runs as long as he acknowledges that he's, in Pope Dondon the 151th's words, standing on the shoulders of giants. If he were to say "I invented all these new strats that nobody figured out before" then yeah that'd be really cocky, but I haven't seen that from him.

That said, the constant and now secretive updates are getting a tad bit annoying, ruadath. We get it: you enjoy the fact your turn counts are lower and you like rubbing it into the face of someone who you're having an internet skirmish with.

[Irysa]

ruadath has done some pretty questionable things in the past, and I agree that it's reasonable to hold him to account for that, but why the general vitriol? He's made some good improvements to FE7, including some clears nobody had thought possible before, like the C14 FE7 3 turn, which involved figuring out some AI shenanigans that nobody knew about before! That wasn't just bruteforcing RNG. I think it's obvious he's interested in trying to complete a run with "the lowest turns", just like any speedrunner would want to complete a run with "the lowest time". Perhaps its a "holding a record" thing, I'm not one to judge, and I can't really know.

I agree that some of these proposed runs, like the FE8, FE9 and FE13 ones are ludicrous and indicate some kind of obcessive compulsive need to have the best possible clear, and that's further reinforced by the incessant minor tweaks to existing playthroughs that people don't care that much about to hear or see in detail. That combined with lying about stat hacking means people hold him in contempt to some degree. But that doesn't mean there's no merit whatsoever to what he posts. I think we should all keep our biases in check to judge what comes out with as it comes out, rather than turning this into a dramatic grudge match. The LTC community is too small for such things to not have large negative impacts on general collaboration and strategic composition. If you really do care about the games this much, then please stop with the drama.

I would also like to add there is some severe irony in Chiki complaining about ruadath's lack of respect and him having apparently chased off existant LTC players when he contributed heavily (along with others, you know who you are) to shitting all over commonguard's FE12 contributions (and he had a bunch of good improvements), which resulted in him departing this community. Do we really want that to happen again?

In case you aren't aware, I live with Chiki. He just doesn't like this forum very much so he doesn't want to go on it. Unlike him, I want to post when Fates comes out. Why is it wrong for me to post what his strategies are when he wants me to? I share many people's opinions on ruadath's stealing strategies from people and doing minor improvements. I could even post picture proof that we live together if you wish.

Come on now, given the general tone of your posts being trademark Chiki and the slipups with the first person, I think most people are fairly convinced that a significant portion of the posts you make in these threads are just sockpuppet messages. I think it's good that you/Chiki are sharing strats and working on stuff in this thread, and I appreciate the fact the mods are letting it slide given that otherwise he'd have to resort to communication through other channels to collaborate on these projects. But really, calling people out for deception then engaging in it yourself is a bit rich.

Edited January 11, 2016 by Irysa

[dondon151]

ngl commonguard was a total asshole and i have no remorse for making him feel bad

[Camilla]

Unless, of course, Camilla is also this interested in LTCing.

Yes, I enjoy his LTC playthroughs too. I don't see the problem with that?

If he were to say "I invented all these new strats that nobody figured out before" then yeah that'd be really cocky, but I haven't seen that from him.

He is acting that way though, especially with this 1-3 3-turn clear he claims to have.

However, within this thread the posts by Camilla have switched several times from Camilla's perspective to Chiki's and back.

I've already said I copy paste his notes for him. That explains the change in perspective.

And I may be a good typist for him. What's wrong with doing something for the person you love? It only takes 15 minutes a day at most to copy paste his notes and type some extra stuff. It's barely any effort. And it also annoys me when people's LTC strategies are stolen.

But really, calling people out for deception then engaging in it yourself is a bit rich.

How is copy pasting his notes (which are written from his first person perspective) and typing myself deceiving someone?

I would also like to add there is some severe irony in Chiki complaining about ruadath's lack of respect and him having apparently chased off existant LTC players when he contributed heavily (along with others, you know who you are) to shitting all over commonguard's FE12 contributions (and he had a bunch of good improvements), which resulted in him departing this community.

Sorry, I don't know anything about that, so I can't comment. But dondon seems to think he deserved it.

Edited January 11, 2016 by Camilla

[Gradivus.]

But dondon seems to think he deserved it.

FYI, Chiki accused him of plagiarism because he assumed the strats are anything similar to PKL's and were copies of those (the former is highly inaccurate, the latter wrong), pretended the difference between full and incomplete recruitment in FE12 is negligible when it's like 25 turns minimum and called commonguard's full recruitment run (173 turns compared to 145) trash based on that, among some more.

So yeah, even if the bad remarks he gets are warranted (I wouldn't necessarily say so), Chiki more or less just talked rubbish.

Edited January 11, 2016 by Gradivus.

[ruadath]

It's not normal, in fact it's incredibly unhealthy, to take a video game this seriously. If you find it offensive to use your thread titled "FE10 HM LTC" (and not "FE10 HM LTC playthrough") for someone else's playthrough, and if you honestly think that is "bullying," I wonder if you have experienced what real bullying is.

I think it's incredibly unreasonable to think that posting your playthrough on top of someone else's thread is a normal thing to do. I believe LordRaven and Irysa, are/were holding simultaneous playthroughs of FE6, yet Irysa didn't feel the need to post all of his stuff on LordRaven's thread, and just started his own thread. You, in fact, also started your own thread after completing this playthrough, and there was no reason why you could not have just done that from the beginning, other than to disrupt my own playthrough.

And furthermore, I was very willing to let that slide and interacted quite civilly with you for the first few pages, but when I decided to restart my playthrough and you posted several comments about it being unimpressive and me being a tryhard, I did take offense, as any reasonable person would.

A lot of people thought FE10 HM LTC in under 180 turns was impossible just a few years ago, until Chiki did it in 155 turns. I guess they must have been super stupid according to you? Coming up with new amazing creative and original strategies which greatly cut turncounts is why people like LTCing: because of originality and creativity. What seems impossible one day is possible the next: people enjoy LTCing because some clears seem impossible and then they are possible with new and original and interesting strategies.

By stupidity, I was referring to your behavior, not the fact that you missed turn counts. Though I do think it's quite arrogant and in poor form to declare that you have the lowest turn counts possible when that is evidently not the case. You even did this to me before you started your own playthrough, declaring things were impossible that you ended up incorporating in your own playthrough after 56025208 gave you video evidence to suggest otherwise.

EDIT: Oh, and by the way, for information regarding the actual playthrough, I figured out how to edit the clear number of the save file. I really doubt this is important, since it's highly unlikely that Fenrir!Pelleas (or even Rescue!Pelleas) is going to save any turns from the playthrough, and I'm pretty certain Lehran isn't necessary to 1-turn the final chapter, but I guess I might as well recruit these guys because I can + money in the former case.

Edited January 11, 2016 by ruadath

[Mekkah]

Yes, I enjoy his LTC playthroughs too. I don't see the problem with that?

I've already said I copy paste his notes for him. That explains the change in perspective.

And I may be a good typist for him. What's wrong with doing something for the person you love?

A very selective answer to my post longer than two sentences. Yes, I'm sure you (Camilla) enjoy watching Chiki's playthroughs, but my point was the notes were written from Chiki's perspective. Regardless of whether he was actually manning the keyboard, from an outsider's point of view (like for the mods), there's no difference anymore. Since there's no way to tell Camilla and Chiki apart there's honestly no real reason to keep Chiki banned at this point. He doesn't seem to want to post anywhere else anyway.

He is acting that way though, especially with this 1-3 3-turn clear he claims to have.

Please show me a post where he refuses to acknowledge that he's taken a strat from somewhere else and called it his own.

Emphasis on the rest since no one should really have any kind of copyright on stats in a single player game. "Acting that way" is not the same.

[Junkhead]

This thread really makes me appreciate Horace's chill attitude about LTC and everything.

Tiki, can you please make a choice regarding post perspective? Either just use first person or go with "Tiki says".

Rudys pretty cool about it as well, minus the methods Im against (still, I really respect the dedication and the break-through that meant going TAS mode). Hes only acting this way in accord to Chiki retaliating with his own playthrough in his own thread, as if he simply couldnt stand to see someone better him. It happened right after Rudy started pulling BS turncounts. Coincidence?

What can you do though? You either suck it up and deal with the fact that massive rng abuse is needed for ideal turncounts [like rudy does], you accept that your run can be improved and play it with reasonable amounts of rng abuse regardless [like you do] or you just accept that LTC is just kind of dumb and give up on it [like I did with FE4].

Nah, he doesnt have to stand aside and suck it up. He still has gas going, the strategies and the mind to show others hes a great player. It doesnt take TAS-like turns to be able to show youre good and creative (not saying its Rudy or Chikis case, particularly). Does "LTC" stand for "low turncounts" or "lowest turncounts (...as humanly possible?)"? That ought to make a difference.

It's not normal, in fact it's incredibly unhealthy, to take a video game this seriously.

I wouldnt disagree with you if Chiki didnt came up out of the blue just to try and show that hes the very best there ever was. If thats not unhealthy, then what is?

And that is what you have zero respect for: you shamelessly steal other people's strategies and use minor very low% improvements that are mostly really easy to figure out (like Chapter 2 FE9, 1-P 1-1 1-2 FE10, ones people already pointed out in FE8 and FE7). Ripping off people's time and effort coming up with new strategies is insulting since you're taking the easy way out by not figuring things out yourself.

Not going to lie, thats actually a principle I incorporated from Chiki. Its cool, and you feel good if its you who ended up figuring it out through your own means. However, I always thought it was among the most normal thing in the world to look into others runs as a reference as to what to do. Otherwise, you use a lot of time theorycrafting and/or testrunning it.

[You even made a well known LTC player quit the game with your unoriginality.

Naw, Im still around. >U> But dont be telling everyone

[ruadath]

This was too amusing for me not to share:

[dondon151]

I've already said I copy paste his notes for him. That explains the change in perspective.

And I may be a good typist for him. What's wrong with doing something for the person you love? It only takes 15 minutes a day at most to copy paste his notes and type some extra stuff. It's barely any effort. And it also annoys me when people's LTC strategies are stolen.

i think what mekkah is saying is that you should just let chiki post on your account in this thread