So... Fates was just Rated by the ESRB

[twice]

If the game was really based off medieval Europe no females would be allowed to fight.

Does that matter? Do you think people really used 'magic' to fight???? (Point is, FE does have medieval aspects but that doesn't mean it's going to be the exact same....)

Edited December 5, 2015 by ♡黒猫~

[Sunwoo]

Would there really be anything of value lost if we gave Camilla a nice pair of pants

[Zerosabers]

Does that matter? Do you think people really used 'magic' to fight???? (Point is, FE does have medieval aspects but that doesn't mean it's going to be the exact same....)

Then we can apply the same thing to LGBT people in Fire Emblem.

[Phantasmagoric]

If the game was really based off medieval Europe no females would be allowed to fight.

Fair point. Obviously they're not going to go the whole nine yards, but I think it's fair to show, in a game where the motif is specifically the East versus the West (or Europe versus the Orient/Japan) they might show some of the inequalities of the time. I mean, they have things like hostages and retainers and allude to a full blown class system, so it's not entirely out of place.

Also, some women did fight as I'm sure you know. People like Boudica or Joan of Arc. It was just rarer.

[twice]

Then we can apply the same thing to LGBT people in Fire Emblem.

IS can do whatever they want ;o;

[CrimeanRoyalKnight]

Oh welp :/

Everything can be deep enough if analyzed and studied like this though.

[Pretty_Handsome]

Censoring does change things. See Henry.

So if Camilla got the Henry treatment I doubt she'll be as she is in the Japanese version where she's a horribly designed character in all things.

Soleil isn't trying be be a Queen and no one ever tells her she's sick for loving girls. Instead she's converted to fulfill the male fantasy/trope of making a lesbian straight because they didn't know better until you and your male parts showed them the error of their ways. It's disgusting.

Edited December 5, 2015 by Pretty_Handsome

[Ryo]

Wasn't Henry just a case of localization change and not censorship? Because I heard that he ended up even creepier.

[Phantasmagoric]

Censoring does change things. See Henry.

So if Camilla got the Henry treatment I doubt she'll be as she is in the Japanese version where she's a horribly designed character in all things.

Soleil isn't trying be be a Queen and no one ever tells her she's sick for loving girls. Instead she's converted to fulfill the male fantasy/trope of making a lesbian straight because they didn't know better until you and your male parts showed them the error of their ways. It's disgusting.

I was under the impression Soleil was bisexual?

[Zerosabers]

I was under the impression Soleil was bisexual?

Her only S supports are men, most of which end about as bad as you'd expect.

[Anacybele]

I'm really getting sick and tired of people with this mindset. First of all, there's no confirmation of any change and you're already moaning.

So am I. Like Sunwoo/Sangyul said, what value is really lost if you give Camilla a proper top and pants? If you change a bit of text so it's less suggestive, but gets the point across all the same? I really hate people that whine and complain about censorship.

I'm not saying that I don't think there are any bad examples of censorship *cough*removing the Joey punching Yami in the face scene in Yu-Gi-Oh*cough* Tharja beach image in Awakening*cough* But I do think that a majority of censorship is fine.

Edited December 5, 2015 by Anacybele

[twice]

All Fates need is curtains. Curtains here, curtains there... Curtains everywhere!

[The DanMan]

Wasn't Henry just a case of localization change and not censorship? Because I heard that he ended up even creepier.

Yep, it was just a localization change. Why they decided to mess around with him and not, say, Tharja, makes little sense.

[nocturnal YL]

After learning that the Camilla cutscene was the only thing that game the game a CERO C, I'm not surprised with the ESRB T here. Seems to me that barring something that's really suggestive (say, something nearing nudity), all those outfits alone won't lead to an M.

And if what Masahiro Sakurai talked about getting Smash a CERO A showed anything, it's that CERO graders are more perverted than the ESRB ones.

[guacamole]

No censorship is good. If the artists and writers didn't want you to experience the story in that manner, they wouldn't have written it that way.

Removing references to incest and child brides wouldn't be a good thing?

There comes a point where one has to admit that the "artists and writers" are not flawless human beings, and the subculture this game is mostly geared towards (otakus) even less so. If anyone desperately needs this game to be filled with creepy and disgusting fetishes, they can play the Japanese version.

[HTakara82]

Suggestive themes is apart of the rating. That means lines that suggest sex. Sexual themes means, showing visual things that refers to sex

As a point of reference, Awakening was given "MILD SUGGESTIVE THEMES" and here's the summary from the ESRB site

Rating Summary: This is a role-playing game in which players assume the role of a young adventurer who journeys through a fantasy world. Players engage in tactical battles by moving characters around grids and taking turns attacking enemies. Gameplay attacks consist of brief animations in which characters slash each other with swords, or attack with magic spells; light effects and cries of pain denote damage. Cutscenes also contain instances of violence: characters getting impaled with swords, lightning bolts; enemy soldiers attacking a village; a character jumping off a cliff to her death. During the course of the game, there is occasional suggestive dialogue/text (e.g., “Your philandering is quite deplorable, but high marks on your attitude,” “Noble or not, you should be wearing at least a towel when you address a lady!” and “loins afire” when a character is in love.); a few characters also wear low-cut tops that reveal deep cleavage. A handful of scenes feature characters discussing mead, wine, and being drunk. The words “ar*e” and “p*ss off” appear in dialogue.

Edited December 5, 2015 by HTakara82

[NekoKnight]

Everything can be deep enough if analyzed and studied like this though.

Indeed. Reading through that blog post, it's 50% canon traits and 50% head canon. Mind you, I'd LOVE it if Camilla was nearly as well developed as that person believes they are but it's pretty obvious her main appeal is supposed to be as a sex bombshell, hardcore yandere. I don't think the point of her intro cinematic (T&A T&A T&A T&A) was "But she has a great personality, bruh, really."

I wouldn't really call it censorship if they gave Camilla pants and toned down on her Kamui obsession. I'd call it making a better character. To say Camilla as she is is "the perfect design" is to admit her character is base level pandering. They COULD make her more than a pair of walking tits, but that would be too much effort, presumably.

[guacamole]

Assuming that "Mild Suggestive themes" is a heavier sentence than regular suggestive themes, that would mean this game would have to be less suggestive than Awakening, right?

If that's the case, some content definitely probably got cut. My guess is the bath house.

EDIT: Wait, I think I got that backward. Still wouldn't be surprised if some stuff was changed/cut, though.

Edited December 5, 2015 by guacamole

[Hunter Nightblood]

Would there really be anything of value lost if we gave Camilla a nice pair of pants

Masterb... I mean fanservice material?

T rating doesn't surprise me whatsoever, and with what I've seen from Fates, they really don't need to censure anything to keep that T rating.

[Pretty_Handsome]

Yep, it was just a localization change. Why they decided to mess around with him and not, say, Tharja, makes little sense.

It's still changes and certain things were toned down while new things were brought up.

Camilla needs censorship and the Henry treatment.

So does Soleil and Syalla.

Really, all the pandering characters only there to pander need the Henry treatment.

Soleil isn't Bi, she's a lesbian. She has no interest in men than out of nowhere S Rank has her decide that men are better livers than women despite it not footing the C-A narrative or her character. It's simply pandering and highly offensive.

Edited December 5, 2015 by Pretty_Handsome

[Hunter Nightblood]

Camilla needs censorship and the Henry treatment.

While I do agree that nothing would really be lost if Camilla had a less suggestive outfit, I don't think she "needs" censorship. It is not unheard of (although unfortunately uncommon) to have characters whose designs are shameless fanservice, and yet still be a fleshed out character (Gurren Lagann's Yoko for example). Now, if character is as thin as I hear it is, a personality revamp would be a good thing.

This is also coming from a person who is completly apathetic about fanservice so...

[CrimeanRoyalKnight]

Indeed. Reading through that blog post, it's 50% canon traits and 50% head canon. Mind you, I'd LOVE it if Camilla was nearly as well developed as that person believes they are but it's pretty obvious her main appeal is supposed to be as a sex bombshell, hardcore yandere. I don't think the point of her intro cinematic (T&A T&A T&A T&A) was "But she has a great personality, bruh, really."

I wouldn't really call it censorship if they gave Camilla pants and toned down on her Kamui obsession. I'd call it making a better character. To say Camilla as she is is "the perfect design" is to admit her character is base level pandering. They COULD make her more than a pair of walking tits, but that would be too much effort, presumably.

Tone down her obsession, yes, but her design can honestly left as it is (although I loathe her bottom part, it's ugly), it's not what really matters at the core of a character.

You can have a character with a sexy and fanservice design and still have them to be deep and interesting.

That's not the case with Camilla, who is just a bunch of fetishes put together and lives for the player. I'd say the same for Joker but he has his asshole side to make him more of a character.

I'm trying really hard to like her, but her mommy attitudes and the fact that she seems so dumb really kill her for me.

And sorry but covering her would still be censorship. Not censorship I'd care much about, but still censorship.

[Zerosabers]

It's still changes and certain things were toned down while new things were brought up.

Camilla needs censorship and the Henry treatment.

So does Soleil and Syalla.

Really, all the pandering characters only there to pander need the Henry treatment.

Soleil isn't Bi, she's a lesbian. She has no interest in men than out of nowhere S Rank has her decide that men are better livers than women despite it not footing the C-A narrative or her character. It's simply pandering and highly offensive.

Don't forget Eponine too.

[Azz]

Don't forget Eponine too.

While I may sound a bit bias, Eponine really doesn't need toning down.

Camilla could use toning down since her bottom half and her just bad personality and character.

Soleil is just Soleil and that whole shit storm.

Syalla is basically Tharja, so that is more then likely getting toned down.

But compared to the above who are either extremely sexual/creepy or just Soleil and fucked up, Eponine is neither. Yes she ships real yaoi couples, for the most part she is nit that bad. She has a bad personality and such, but has no real reason to be toned down. Maybe less emphasis on the yaoi and more on the 'I'm Robin Hood' shtick would be good but other then that, she has nothing note worthy that needs to be toned down. (Also remember, in story context, Zero is her father)

[Zerosabers]

While I may sound a bit bias, Eponine really doesn't need toning down.

Camilla could use toning down since her bottom half and her just bad personality and character.

Soleil is just Soleil and that whole shit storm.

Syalla is basically Tharja, so that is more then likely getting toned down.

But compared to the above who are either extremely sexual/creepy or just Soleil and fucked up, Eponine is neither. Yes she ships real yaoi couples, for the most part she is nit that bad. She has a bad personality and such, but has no real reason to be toned down. Maybe less emphasis on the yaoi and more on the 'I'm Robin Hood' shtick would be good but other then that, she has nothing note worthy that needs to be toned down. (Also remember, in story context, Zero is her father)

Her shipping real yaoi couples is terrible. It's treating gay men like a fucking fetish.