Chapter 5 Cutscene + 15 Minutes gameplay footage in English

[solrocknroll]

The Malignant pun may exist, but I still think Malig all by itself looks completely off. Something about it just ending in g like that

I've said how bad Beruka and Mozu are, but I'll get over them, but I actually find Niles hard to say. Even that Welsh name in Llewellyn seems easier to pronounce for me than that hard N sound coupled with iles. Couldn't it just have been Miles then? That works way better for me.

[NekoKnight]

I personally think your idea of doing an FE14 re-write for the sake of guilt-tripping fans of it and trying to make them question their choice of buying a game is ludicrous (and to down-right fan-hater levels); I never said anything of the sort when you brought it up in the other thread.

Considering your posting history, I'm starting to wonder if your member title's a joke or a warning.

Where did he state his re-write is just to guilt trip fans and make them question their choice of getting the game?

[Book Bro]

You're forgetting that the majority of what we've seen is perfectly fine, and that every FE localization has a bunch of name changes that people moan about.

For me, at least, I understand when a name is changed because it's too hard to pronounce/read, or doesn't work as well for a non-Japanese audience. But this game has a lot of seemingly arbitrary changes, like Harold to Arthur or Kamui to Corrin, and the chopping up of Japanese names (especially because it's not been consistent-- Mozume and Tsubaki are too hard but Yukimura is fine?). Then you have stuff like Rinkah and Beruka that just leave me scratching my head. And Llewellyn actually seems like a name that would've been changed in localization, not added! I do like that name though, hope it fits whoever the character is.

I don't care much about stuff like Marx to Xander because, ok, the localization team is from the USA and are sensitive to that name, fine. Same for Silas/Cyrus because both are valid readings of the Japanese name. But I just don't get the reasoning behind the others.

[Espinosa]

USA or not, a royal named Marx would provoke all sorts of endless jokes and couldn't be taken seriously (just like the Lobster Lord because of his appearance).

[VincentASM]

So far, everything seems on par to me, except Beruka. I really wonder what the logic behind that was... unless she's secretly a Hoshidan?

Edited December 25, 2015 by VincentASM

[blinkingbrave]

Beruka is an actual name (not to mention the other legitimate romanization of Belka's name anyways), with a meaning that makes sense for her character, least imo.

Looks like some of the other changes have been made to make sure the pronunciation of the names is unambiguous (and yes, I think people should be able to pronounce Tsubaki if they can pronounce tsunami, but whatever), then you've got some to fix up/change connotations to match localized versions, make sure the connection hits, avoid connections (Xander, Arthur, if I had to guess), and plenty of others to just make the names easier to remember. Gotta agree that localization's doing fine.

The only thing that's kinda a mystery to me is why Yukimura inexplicably seems to have stayed the same, while we've got Kaze and Hana. I mean, I can think up reasons, but I'd rather like to hear theirs, ya know?

[iavasechui]

Beruka is an actual name (not to mention the other legitimate romanization of Belka's name anyways), with a meaning that makes sense for her character, least imo.

Looks like some of the other changes have been made to make sure the pronunciation of the names is unambiguous (and yes, I think people should be able to pronounce Tsubaki if they can pronounce tsunami, but whatever), then you've got some to fix up/change connotations to match localized versions, make sure the connection hits, avoid connections (Xander, Arthur, if I had to guess), and plenty of others to just make the names easier to remember. Gotta agree that localization's doing fine.

The only thing that's kinda a mystery to me is why Yukimura inexplicably seems to have stayed the same, while we've got Kaze and Hana. I mean, I can think up reasons, but I'd rather like to hear theirs, ya know?

thanks for that link I now love Beruka's name.

[Ebony]

Honestly I like Malig Knight. But I'm also weak for puns. Malignant.... hah, I love it.

[Namarid]

Bearer of victory. I guess it makes sense with her being an assassin.

[CrimeanRoyalKnight]

I guess shortening Yukimura to "Yuki" would sound too cute.

Kaze and Hana make sense because even if shortened, they keep a meaning related to their character and said meaning is known even by people not that into Japanese culture.

[NekoKnight]

USA or not, a royal named Marx would provoke all sorts of endless jokes and couldn't be taken seriously (just like the Lobster Lord because of his appearance).

Eh, besides some speculation about some alleged communism naming theme for the Nohrian royals, people got over Marx's name pretty quick here.

[Party Moth]

So you'll come out of the woodwork just to say "I told you so"?

You're forgetting that the majority of what we've seen is perfectly fine, and that every FE localization has a bunch of name changes that people moan about.

Also, "ludicrous"? I guess Okami also has a "ludicrous" localization as well? I wouldn't go around calling things ludicrous, and then going on to behave like the it's some objective fact. The only thing that's really questionable is "Beruka"; "Mozu" lines up with the aforementioned Okami-style localization of Japanese names, and "Malig Knight" is most likely due to character limitations.

I personally think your idea of doing an FE14 re-write for the sake of guilt-tripping fans of it and trying to make them question their choice of buying a game is ludicrous (and to down-right fan-hater levels); I never said anything of the sort when you brought it up in the other thread.

Considering your posting history, I'm starting to wonder if your member title's a joke or a warning.

I may have a strong dislike for the game and feel disgusted with its development, but I'm not above recognizing when the game does something well. For example, I think Malig Knight is an excellent example of wordplay, though it could have been executed better with the spelling of Malignight (losing that awkward lack of an N on Malig). There are things the game (and the localization) does right. Beruka is also an actual name (Old Greek) and is not shared by other characters in the series, so I hold no issue with that.

My issues with this localization so far is that when compared to the work of 8-4 it is awkward and occasionally sloppy. Kunai being daggers instead is a step forward, but they could have been knives instead, falling into place with previous FE weapons (daggers being ill suited to throwing and ranged weapons being reserved for knives). It lacks the flow and poetic characteristics Shadow Dragon and Awakening had, though occasionally they string together a nice line or two. Names such as Selena and Arthur are strange when there are already characters in the series with those names, and Severa's name change seems lazy and useless on her part because of the localization having it literally only being one letter off. The lyrics to Azura's song are meant to be in an archaic version of the language as they have lost their literary meaning to the characters, but in the English translation they are plain as day. Okami's localized names are designed to appear more natural to a western audience while still retaining all the elements necessary for players to look up the mythology behind them. Many of the Japanese names in Fates are not so deeply based in mythology, and cutting them down to being shorter than "Hoshido" shows that they don't expect an audience that often partakes in anime (which regularly retains the Japanese names even in dubs) to be able to read four syllables.

I will take back the severity of my statement that the localization is ludicrous, but I will not retract my stance that the localization makes strange decisions every which way. Treehouse is at their best when they are able to write for games that can support their particular quirks at writing and localization. Paper Mario is their strong suit. Kid Icarus: Uprising is their strong suit. Fire Emblem, when it is intended to be serious, is not their strong suit.

As to my fic, you are free to criticize it and my stance on the game all you like and I am fine with that (in fact, I encourage it), but perhaps this thread in particular is not the place to discuss such a thing and is veering off topic. Let's save that for a more fitting discussion topic (or PMs, if you'd like). Believe it or not, there are things I do like about this game.

[PuffPuff]

^Isn't Monk the name they gave to those Light Mages in the GBA games though?

It's as close as it gets unless they can call them Catholic Priest or something!

I think that the change of name Zero to Niles shudder is a way to make him sounds more exotic somehow... also I feel as if they will change his character to someone who is just sadistic, on the shop he comments about all these "lovely weapons" and that is something I would expect from someone like Pieri...

To make him sound more worthwhile as he's had a shitty life already.

Am I the only one who likes Zero's name change? Riles isn't that bad of a name. Though, I was hoping for Zorro. Did you guys notice that his voice actor was a tad flamboyant though? xD

I'm not thrilled with Beruka or Malig Knight (am I even spelling it right)?

EDIT:

And, looks like I just got spoiled on Selena, Odin, and Lazward.

Though I guess it WAS obvious it was Severa, Inigo, and Owain lol.

Guess I'll learn how they got to Corrin's world when I play it.

EDIT2: It's NILES, not RILES. How did I mess that up? Still, it's not terrible. Zero as a name was a little lame.

That would be nice, but have to look in trivia on what "Niles" actually means.

I doubt they are doing these changes to spite us lol.

Names I except to see changed are "Orochi" and "Oboro". Too similar.

That is, I see they are showing Nohr bias in these previews haha.

The GameXplain one chose Nohr at chapter 6, here they show us Nohr footage!

Anyway, this is not the first time FE names got changed.

Here, take a look:

Kilroy

Bole

Nn

Wayu

Salliya

Soanevalke

Tiamat

Chinon

Senerio

Ealice

Yofa

Mordy

Stella

Ulysses

Kevin

Wood

Velvet

Serge

Some of these names sound very weird, but other are very normal, such as Kevin, Tiamat, Stella...

Basically, you won't know why the normal names got changed unless you ask the localizers.

Although the decision to let Beruka stay Beruka is weird. Others I can understand, and so the name shortening in Hoshido, but Beruka is weird, I would've expected a complete name change like Wayu -> Mia.

Because Belka is a weird name.

Anyway, part of me hopes the PAL versions keeps the normal, "uncut in half" Japanese names, because "Mozu" sounds dumb.

With the exception of Wood all the other names needed to be changed. Changing Owain to Wood wasn't good though since Lissa gave her child the utmost epic name in the series. It brings some Dragonball to it!

Oh the names...

* I'm ok with Niles for Zero, but it will be impossible for me not to think in The Nanny while reading the name... And it looks that some people started to joke with it in tumblr (https://41.media.tumblr.com/5dfb19d68924e1dca66c8ef1e3251515/tumblr_nzvsf1HlKV1s25sh6o1_250.png)

* I'm ok with Selena for Luna, as at least it has a logic

* Belka is totally WTH territory... I don't understand the change

* Mozu... The localization team really like to chop chop the names

Omg, I'm really afraid of what the Localization team do to Oboro :S , I hope her name didn't get changed as I really like her name, it would be weird for me if they changed it for something strange :/ (But thanks to god because Takumi keep his name intact)

That'll just confuse the western and Jap audiences as that was her original Jap name and that this name was used from a Grado General.

I don't mind the name changes. Selena is a nice name. Niles is a cool name. I like the meaning behind malig knight. Beruka is kinda awkward though,would of preferred belka but oh well. Also thank god they changed kunai to dagger.

Calling Killer Dagger/Killer Shuriken are rather weird as they should be something like Death Star/Ninja's Trump.

Eh, besides some speculation about some alleged communism naming theme for the Nohrian royals, people got over Marx's name pretty quick here.

Well of course since it says in his FE Wiki page that Xandar is in the name of Alexandar which is fitting for his nature.

Edited December 25, 2015 by Lin_Lee_Koo

[The DanMan]

Apologies for my initial snap; salt from external sources was pushing my tolerance level.

Where did he state his re-write is just to guilt trip fans and make them question their choice of getting the game?

Not "just", but it was part of the summary he threw around during the original "Fixing Fates' Story Thread".

For me, at least, I understand when a name is changed because it's too hard to pronounce/read, or doesn't work as well for a non-Japanese audience. But this game has a lot of seemingly arbitrary changes, like Harold to Arthur or Kamui to Corrin, and the chopping up of Japanese names (especially because it's not been consistent-- Mozume and Tsubaki are too hard but Yukimura is fine?). Then you have stuff like Rinkah and Beruka that just leave me scratching my head. And Llewellyn actually seems like a name that would've been changed in localization, not added! I do like that name though, hope it fits whoever the character is.

I don't care much about stuff like Marx to Xander because, ok, the localization team is from the USA and are sensitive to that name, fine. Same for Silas/Cyrus because both are valid readings of the Japanese name. But I just don't get the reasoning behind the others.

Arthur was a bit weird; however, somebody higher-up probably thought the "hero" character should be named after King Arthur.

As for Yukimura, it's pronounced exactly as it's spelled: yuh-kee-mur-uh (same with Llewellyn). Mozume > Mozu, while a tad inconsistent (Kaze is still a thing), has pronunciation justification on its' side.

As for "Tsuabki > Subaki", I've actually seen quite a few people pronounce "Tsu-" sounds as "Su-" sounds; quite possible that somebody higher up thought it was unnecessary and just dropped it.

Is the localization perfect? No. But at the end of the day, people just seem to make a massive deal out of name changes; it is what it is. The salt is just starting to get to me; I should probably just deal with it or take a break from the forum.

[Sunwoo]

Too much sodium is bad for you

I don't have a problem with the localization (barring Harold -> Arthur because why), but I think that at this point I'm so used to the Japanese names it just feels weird using the ones that are super different. I mean, the Japanese names technically aren't wrong, especially to someone who's played the Japanese. So I suppose I'll just end up using the names interchangeably. I am slightly concerned about what they'll change some of the remaining Hoshidans' names to though.

[Damosel]

"Niles" huh. Guess we don't get any "we number our children like the Romans did" jokes now.

Also poor Hoshidans with halfed names. Wouldn't be surprised by "Obo" and "Asa" at this rate.

I'm just gonna go weeb and use the Japanese names.

[Thor Odinson]

Okay so I went to look at the actual original script for Ryouma in chapter 6 and he clearly knew Marx is the enemy prince there (the lines referred to Ouji, which means prince. It was very clear cut). Why the change in making him sound like he has no clue what the nohrians royals are? If that was the case in the original, that's fine, I actually didn't think to check until I had a meta that revolved around it but now it's just...weird. like it's a really pointless change that doesn't really help his character? If they want to make him more "flawed" just pick some of his existing flaws and actually capitalise on them, like his tendency to recklessly yolo and his piss-poor communication skills. Cluelessness is not one of them.

Thanks, Localization disease. I'm not writing off the localization based on a few lines shown here, but I really hope they didn't change them too drastically in parts that aren't broken.

Edited December 27, 2015 by Thor Odinson

[Sunwoo]

The symptoms of localization disease may include but are not limited to the following: speaking in another language, forgetting important things, knowing things you've never known before, calling people by different names, and out-of-character behavior. There is no cure for localization disease, but you can always forget it happened. Raise awareness for localization disease today!

I think Ryouma has already fallen to the localization disease.

[blinkingbrave]

Obviously, personal opinion ahead...

Isn't being an enemy commander more relevant to the scene (and more particularly all the scenes prior about 'this is what Nohrians do' with regards to the destruction talk/scenes) than being simply the crown prince of Nohr, though? It more clearly marks Xander as the enemy in Ryoma's eyes and is a stronger way of convincing Corrin (and the player) that Xander's done the horrible military things mentioned by directly tying him in to a military position. Though 'prince' presumably ought to tie him into a military commander position, this is much clearer and has much stronger connotations. It's more suited to a persuasive argument.

There's also no reason for Corrin (or the player) not to know that Xander's a prince of Nohr. When it comes to sharing information Corrin (and the player) may or may not know, dropping this lil bit that Xander's an army commander (which iirc, isn't something directly stated here or prior in the JP dialogue, though it's pretty obvious) actually confirms something. We already know he's a prince, which is obviously going to be quite well-known. Ryoma's lil bit tells us that Xander's also a well-known commander, speaking to his military prowess. And, even though it's something obvious to the player, in Kamui's interactions with the Hoshidan royals, it's not clear that he/she understands this (though we do know that Kamui does). Though Kamui conveys that s/he understands Marx is a prince, there's nothing in his/her discussion with the royals that suggests s/he understands he's a military commander (and should apply to Corrin, Xander, and the Hoshidan royals providing localization). So mentioning this could theoretically be a revelation for Corrin (and the player, I guess), while mentioning Xander's a prince ought not to have any reason to turn Corrin from him.

Not to mention attaching the 'horrible military person' connotations to Xander more clearly has the potential to build sympathy/'but he's not really like that' towards him in the player than just 'prince,' which is more neutral/detached.

Though it's just a word, it's a change that does affect what Ryoma's statement conveys/engenders, particularly for the reader.

tl;dr: It's more suited to a persuasive argument, more relevant, and information dropping we (and Corrin, least in Ryoma's eyes) haven't had yet (depending on localization, obv).

Edited December 27, 2015 by blinkingbrave

[Thor Odinson]

I mean marx is kinda obviously in the role of the commander, what's with his extra shiny armor and a huge sword the size of a small person. To me, the commander bit just feels like stating the obvious instead of giving the players the knowledge that Ryouma must've had some prior knowledge of who the fuck the Nohrian family vaguely looks like, which is in line with his surprisingly good knowledge of Nohrian geography later on. It's already weird enough that both sides send spies all the time but they don't know about the poverty in Nohr (unless the ninjas chose to withold that information for whatever reasons)

See I read this, had a meta thought regarding Ryouma not knowing who any of the Nohr's are, looked up the original to be sure of things, and can't have that anymore considering it's about something in the Japanese script. I felt misled.

I guess if he follows up with something to demonstrate he isn't in the blank about the Nohrians that would be okay

Edited December 27, 2015 by Thor Odinson

[blinkingbrave]

I do think it is obvious to the player that Xander's a competent military commander. But I also think, least in my understanding, that it's to be assumed Ryoma knows Xander's the prince as well. He's the son of the man that killed his father/kidnapped his sister (and getting Corrin back is kinda an issue for him), a prominent military leader/Nohrian governmental figure who's been on the battlefield already, and known by the player to have been seen by Kaze and Rinkah before this, who certainly didn't treat him like a revelation/mystery despite Kaze reacting to Corrin and at the least, would've theoretically conveyed this important info had it been unknown. So rather, imo, it's sort of a choice between conveying two things both obvious, both supporting information relevant later in the story, both not directly stated up to this point but with plenty of reason to believe they're the case. (Edit: And there's also that Corrin demonstrated to the Hoshidan s/he knows Xander's the prince, but not a military leader, making it a lil more relevant to the whole 'stay away' argument as potentially new info. That would be an actual difference, though whether localization considered it is speculation.)

The line certainly stuck out to me a lil, but I think that was more because I knew the JP line than anything else. I don't really have any problem about the old line, either, but this change tbh, I think makes the line... go somewhere, if that makes sense.

Bummer about the headcanon, though. Still relevant for the localized version unless localization's changed something in the earlier chapters. 90% of people aren't going to know the line change anyways. And more could find that the line suggests Ryoma doesn't know Xander as a Nohrian prince than naught. This is just my opinion, after all. Just felt like mentioning it with all the various localization/writing criticisms floating around, seeing as this one can be seen as doing lil more than just reflecting on the one character, ya know? Tbh, some of the other discussions I've overseen do leave me a lil salty, so if I came across as such, apologies, because that certainly wasn't my intention.

Feels to me like this chapter is a thing shippers for any ship involving some combo of Ryoma, Xander, and Corrin will pick apart any sort of way. And the same for character fans. I'm sure it'll end up fanfic-ed, analyzed, and headcanon-ed in all kinds of ways once the game's out.

Edited December 27, 2015 by blinkingbrave

[The DanMan]

I have to agree with blinkingbrave. "Enemy commander" is much more hostile than "Nohrian prince", and doesn't have the immediate connection of "Corrin's foster brother".

Really, judging from Xander's line change in the decision cutscene, it seems like feelings are definitely more charged, with negative feelings being exchanged just as much as "We want Corrin back!" I actually find it a bit more realistic.

But sure. "Localization disease".

[Thor Odinson]

If it was just that one line, sure, but the meanings of pretty much every hoshi-sib got changed in some way that affects how the personalities come off, so I can't help but be worried.

As if fandom doesn't sideline them hard enough already.

[blinkingbrave]

Mm, yeah, it's hard for me to judge how overall the changes are so far. Tbh, everything pre-route split in the JP version felt 'detached' kinda to me from everything post-route split in terms of message/writing goals 'n stuff, so I guess I'm just waiting to see some post-route split dialogue first. Not to mention the only JP royals that had pre-route split dialogue in the chapters we got that was really, majorly formative of my opinion of them (as in, sort of nuanced how I felt they had been/would be presented or subverted what I expected them to be) were Marx and Takumi, so personally, they were kinda who I was looking out for those chapters, anyways. The potential changes in Hinoka and Ryoma are interesting to me, but at this point, I kinda wonder if it's more for pushing the emotional impact of the choice scene, ya know?

If the changes do stick though, Revelations will either become more interesting or more improbable, which should be fun(?) to see.

It's always rough when they change the lines that are important to you though. Like, it's kinda inevitable, but that's not really going to stop me from being salty if it turns out they've overhauled bits of my favorite character.

^{And I'd bet the Hoshidans will get more love once the game is out. The royal guys at least are consistently plot relevant, so that helps.}

[Sunwoo]

The only problem I have with the localization that we've seen so far is that none of Sumeragi's kids seem to give a fuck about him anymore. In the Japanese version Takumi was at least yelling at Aqua about how she was the princess of the country that killed his father, and so he can't trust anyone associated with Nohr. Why they decided to cut that out in the localization, I have no idea but it makes it look like no one cares about Sumeragi anymore since Sumeragi gets the narrative short stick in the Japanese anyway.