Espinosa Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 (edited) The recent Star Wars craze led to me re-watching the trilogy, and I remembered the Black Knight from the Tellius games as somebody similar to Vader in more ways than one when thinking about the games randomly. Perhaps the BK is based on Vader, or both are influenced by a shared prototype (perhaps somebody better versed in popular culture would have something to say about this). Think about it: 1. Both are immensely powerful in combat and also exercise great and immediate political significance. 2. Both serve a supreme leader (king/emperor) who seeks to establish full control. 3. Both are introduced early in the story. 4. Both kill an aged fatherly figure to the protagonist, giving the main character a cause for revenge later. 5. Additionally, the relation between the master and apprentice is kept mysterious and ambiguous. 6. The appearance is quite similar, with both villains hiding beneath heavy armour and a memorable helmet. Naturally, the player is culturally conditioned to expect the Black Knight to be an ugly man inside that helmet just as Vader was. 7. The heavy equipment grants the villain with certain powers and/or needs. 8. The real identity behind the mysterious figure is concealed and is central to the plot in both Star Wars and Radiant Dawn (the BK is just that in PoR). 9. The plot behind revealing each villain's identity is equally flawed - just like there was no reason to believe, based on anything extracted from A New Hope, that Vader and Anakin Skywalker are the same entity, with Force!Ben Kenobi's explanation only awkwardly trying to desperately fix the inconsistent story between the episodes, the Black Knight is also suddenly decided to be more than just the Black Knight in the second Tellius game, leaving the player with very little to even question that he could be somebody else entirely based on the first Tellius game. I would argue the BK is more flawed as a character since the player is given no reason to care about Zelgius initially - what does it really mean that he turns out to be the Black Knight? RD's story ties the two together in an arguably artificial manner. 10. The protagonist eventually faces off against the helmeted villain in the finale, yet they are not the real mastermind in each case (I'm not entirely sure about Vader being any better than the Emperor prior to Luke seeing the good side in his father, and even Vader killing the Emperor was not only previously intended by the former in The Empire Strikes Back, but, according to Vader, "foreseen" by the Emperor himself - then again, there's only so much depth you find in the Star Wars films and it's silly to look for any more or indeed some good logic tying the pieces together, much like it tends to be with video games as well). Some of these points of similarity are vague to be sure; however, most likely, the likeness is more than merely coincidental? Edited December 30, 2015 by Espinosa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkDestr0yer61 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 I legit had this conversation with my friend yesterday. I watched a New Hope and saw the scene where Vader kills Obi-Wan while luke witnesses this, then I messaged my friend saying "why does this scene remind me of when the black Knight kills Greil?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espinosa Posted December 30, 2015 Author Share Posted December 30, 2015 Maybe one possible explanation is that there's a limited number of ways how to tell a story without sacrificing accessibility for originality, so many stories in pop culture will share not only culture, but also same themes and events. I do think in this specific case the BK could be a homage to Darth Vader though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Person123 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 The character archetype they share tends to be fairly popular. Golbez from FF4 is another example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkDestr0yer61 Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 The character archetype they share tends to be fairly popular. Golbez from FF4 is another example. I was thinking this as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 The Black Knight even says "impressive, most impressive" to Ike when defeated in Radiant Dawn, just like Vader does to Luke in Empire Strikes back. I wouldn't be surprised if the localizers hadn't caught on to the similarities and put that as a reference. Whether or not their similarities are intentional, they can't be ignored, they both follow a long-standing archetype that has got even more popular ever since Star Wars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maybe Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 i finished watching star wars for the first time less than 20 minutes ago that being said, I'd be surprised if Vader wasn't at least a slight inspiration for the Black Knight i haven't finished radiant dawn and the only star wars movie I've seen is A New Hope but even then I can see some clear similarities I know it's a pretty common character archetype, but the duel between Obi-Wan and Vader is pretty similar to that of Greil and the Black Knight, with one being the former pupil of the other, and the other being a mentor to both him and the protagonist also ben obi-wan greil gawain I guess that's something?????? there's probably more but I haven't watched much star wars nor have I finished Radiant Dawn so I can't say much that hasn't already been said but still it is probably not a coincidence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espinosa Posted December 31, 2015 Author Share Posted December 31, 2015 I'm not exactly an ardent TV Tropes reader, but looking up info on Golbez brought up this link: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DarthVaderClone So the BK, if we agree on his being influenced by Vader directly, is following the archetype that set a very prominent example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant head Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 The Vader influence isn't very subtle. When I first played PoR I always imagined that Black Knight had Vader's voice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rapier Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 (edited) Both follow the same archetype, and that is what ultimately links them, I believe. Being similar does not mean the BK was necessarily based off Vader; we're led to think it is so only because Vader is the most popular and iconic example of the archetype. Edited January 4, 2016 by Rapier Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrightBow Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 Antagonists tend to kill father figures. And right hand men of the main villain tend to be mysterious and seem to have their own agenda. Also, the Black Knights identity really isn't important to the plot in any way. Ike barely knew Zelgius, so the revelation of his true identity doesn't actually change anything in their relationship. As far as visual appearance goes, the Black Knight is an archetype that predates Vader by quite a few centuries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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