Best Father For Morgan?

[Vascela]

Unique isn't good. Good is good.

[Dwlr]

Mentioning unique options is fine and dandy, but imo they're only really worth considering if they're either useful or have enough merit to outweigh their associated problems. Other than Chrom, most of the husbands that would offer something unique have issues that count against their merits as husband material (3 of them are child units, 2 of which need to be fathered by Chrom to have something unique going for them, and the other one is Yarne, who gives Morgan the irredeemable garbage that is Taguel, with all the downsides that entails). For the record, I don't like Chrom/Robin - I just don't outright dislike it like I do with Chrom/Olivia.

Yet again I say that different people value different things so there is as many 'bests' as there are fathers and thus the ones worth calling attention to are the ones that offer something unique since all of them offer their respective hair colors and stat modifiers there's no need to mention the obvious ones i.e the ones that don't offer anything unique and whether you personal view the unique trait as beneficial or not is again entirely irrelevant. For the record Brady and Inigo don't need Chrom to offer something unique and you left out Owain, Laurent, and Gerome besides all the children character offer flexible modifiers that the other potential husbands can't offer so really all of them deserve special note. All Children characters except Yarne can pass female only class skills if they so choose giving Male Morgan 2 female only class skills if he so chooses to have them. Yarne can give Male Morgan upto +11 Spd if you want it, it's not as if you have to use the Taguel class, and it's not as if the beast weakness comes up all that often I'd hardly call it "irredeemable garbage".

Edited January 9, 2016 by Dwlr

[Admiral "Bull" Halsey]

In that case, I may as well say Walhart!Morgan is the 'best,' because Conquest is unique.

[Dwlr]

In that case, I may as well say Walhart!Morgan is the 'best,' because Conquest is unique.

Yup, considering every father can be the 'best' and 'worst' simultaneously, that's the point. It really isn't that hard of a concept to understand.

Edited January 9, 2016 by Dwlr

[eclipse]

. . .no matter what, I'm not making a bunny!Morgan - he gets no upsides to being a Taguel (and the rhythm skill is somehow worse than Underdog), and is forever weak to Beastkillers. I'm not fond of dragon!Morgan either, because of the eternal Wyrmslayer/Falchion weakness, but at least it hits at 1-2 range.

Just because it's something different, doesn't mean that it's a good difference! Tactician is a good difference due to its skills, Rightful King can actually Do Something Amusing on Morgan, and even Olivia's Luck+4 can find, like, one use on Morgan (though why the hell you'd want the Miracle Sniper build on him is another matter entirely). Underdog is a situational skill, but at least it's not RNG-based - but if that's Donne's strongest selling point, that's really bad.

Now, if we've thrown objectivity out the window, why not have a Best Morgan based on hair color?

(that reminds me, I should get a blinged-out Prince Marth, have him grab a Falchion variant, and punish every last Nowi/Nah I see - in the name of justice!)

[PeaceRibbon]

Best hair color arguments sounds like a great idea! I can't really make a case for my Morgan though. My ingame spouse is Olivia and I'm not sure if Morgan really rocks pink hair. Indigo with my light brown hair (color 15 I think) on the other hand is wonderful and he couldn't look better. :D

[Admiral "Bull" Halsey]

Now, if we've thrown objectivity out the window, why not have a Best Morgan based on hair color?

Thats like asking what is your favourite colour...? <_<

Edited January 10, 2016 by Formerly Colm

[Shadow Mir]

Yet again I say that different people value different things so there is as many 'bests' as there are fathers and thus the ones worth calling attention to are the ones that offer something unique since all of them offer their respective hair colors and stat modifiers there's no need to mention the obvious ones i.e the ones that don't offer anything unique and whether you personal view the unique trait as beneficial or not is again entirely irrelevant. For the record Brady and Inigo don't need Chrom to offer something unique and you left out Owain, Laurent, and Gerome besides all the children character offer flexible modifiers that the other potential husbands can't offer so really all of them deserve special note. All Children characters except Yarne can pass female only class skills if they so choose giving Male Morgan 2 female only class skills if he so chooses to have them. Yarne can give Male Morgan upto +11 Spd if you want it, it's not as if you have to use the Taguel class, and it's not as if the beast weakness comes up all that often I'd hardly call it "irredeemable garbage".

The problem with Yarne!Morgan, in my book, is no starting weapon ranks - that's a pretty damn serious problem when Arms Scrolls are rare (it's also why I'm not find of Panne as a mother for Morgan). Basically, Morgan gets screwed over no matter what (either stay in Taguel with its piss-poor weapons or reclass out and have to dig my way out of E weapon ranks - a lose-lose situation). And that's on top of the downsides that marrying a child unit has.

. . .no matter what, I'm not making a bunny!Morgan - he gets no upsides to being a Taguel (and the rhythm skill is somehow worse than Underdog), and is forever weak to Beastkillers. I'm not fond of dragon!Morgan either, because of the eternal Wyrmslayer/Falchion weakness, but at least it hits at 1-2 range.

Just because it's something different, doesn't mean that it's a good difference! Tactician is a good difference due to its skills, Rightful King can actually Do Something Amusing on Morgan, and even Olivia's Luck+4 can find, like, one use on Morgan (though why the hell you'd want the Miracle Sniper build on him is another matter entirely). Underdog is a situational skill, but at least it's not RNG-based - but if that's Donne's strongest selling point, that's really bad.

Now, if we've thrown objectivity out the window, why not have a Best Morgan based on hair color?

(that reminds me, I should get a blinged-out Prince Marth, have him grab a Falchion variant, and punish every last Nowi/Nah I see - in the name of justice!)

Exactly.

Edited January 10, 2016 by Levant Colthearts

[Shadow Mir]

Yet again I say that different people value different things so there is as many 'bests' as there are fathers and thus the ones worth calling attention to are the ones that offer something unique since all of them offer their respective hair colors and stat modifiers there's no need to mention the obvious ones i.e the ones that don't offer anything unique and whether you personal view the unique trait as beneficial or not is again entirely irrelevant. For the record Brady and Inigo don't need Chrom to offer something unique and you left out Owain, Laurent, and Gerome besides all the children character offer flexible modifiers that the other potential husbands can't offer so really all of them deserve special note. All Children characters except Yarne can pass female only class skills if they so choose giving Male Morgan 2 female only class skills if he so chooses to have them. Yarne can give Male Morgan upto +11 Spd if you want it, it's not as if you have to use the Taguel class, and it's not as if the beast weakness comes up all that often I'd hardly call it "irredeemable garbage".

The problem with Yarne!Morgan, in my book, is no starting weapon ranks - that's a pretty damn serious problem when Arms Scrolls are rare (it's also why I'm not find of Panne as a mother for Morgan). Basically, Morgan gets screwed over no matter what (either stay in Taguel with its piss-poor weapons or reclass out and have to dig my way out of E weapon ranks - a lose-lose situation).

. . .no matter what, I'm not making a bunny!Morgan - he gets no upsides to being a Taguel (and the rhythm skill is somehow worse than Underdog), and is forever weak to Beastkillers. I'm not fond of dragon!Morgan either, because of the eternal Wyrmslayer/Falchion weakness, but at least it hits at 1-2 range.

Just because it's something different, doesn't mean that it's a good difference! Tactician is a good difference due to its skills, Rightful King can actually Do Something Amusing on Morgan, and even Olivia's Luck+4 can find, like, one use on Morgan (though why the hell you'd want the Miracle Sniper build on him is another matter entirely). Underdog is a situational skill, but at least it's not RNG-based - but if that's Donne's strongest selling point, that's really bad.

Now, if we've thrown objectivity out the window, why not have a Best Morgan based on hair color?

(that reminds me, I should get a blinged-out Prince Marth, have him grab a Falchion variant, and punish every last Nowi/Nah I see - in the name of justice!)

Exactly.

[Leif]

If you are going for a specific stat, then it depends. I would suggest a Ricken!Laurent x a +MAG/-DEF female Avatar. This way, male Morgan can get the highest Magic modifier in the game. The same goes for a female Morgan with a Ricken!Noire mother and +MAG/-DEF male Avatar.

For speed, I would recommend pairing a Lon'qu!Yarne x +SPD/-DEF Female Avatar. Male Morgan gets a ridiculous +11 speed modifier.

However, Morgan is the best unit in the game, so he/she will be godly regardless of his/her parentage. I would recommend that you pass Galeforce down to a male Morgan from the female Avatar since it's the best skill in the game.

Edited January 10, 2016 by Leif

[Dwlr]

. . .no matter what, I'm not making a bunny!Morgan - he gets no upsides to being a Taguel (and the rhythm skill is somehow worse than Underdog), and is forever weak to Beastkillers. I'm not fond of dragon!Morgan either, because of the eternal Wyrmslayer/Falchion weakness, but at least it hits at 1-2 range.

Just because it's something different, doesn't mean that it's a good difference! Tactician is a good difference due to its skills, Rightful King can actually Do Something Amusing on Morgan, and even Olivia's Luck+4 can find, like, one use on Morgan (though why the hell you'd want the Miracle Sniper build on him is another matter entirely). Underdog is a situational skill, but at least it's not RNG-based - but if that's Donne's strongest selling point, that's really bad.

Now, if we've thrown objectivity out the window, why not have a Best Morgan based on hair color?

(that reminds me, I should get a blinged-out Prince Marth, have him grab a Falchion variant, and punish every last Nowi/Nah I see - in the name of justice!)

Beastkillers are hardly an issue and if you're going with Yarne it's about the modifiers not the skills.

Kellam!Nah!Morgan upto +11 Mod, 40 base + 13 + 11 + 10 + 10 = 83 Defense, best I recall only non-threats carrying Falchion or a Wyrmslayer throw Def+2 and All Stats+2 use some rallys that's another 14 then throw a temp stat booster so that's another +2 and almost forgot about Defender for that +1 just for giggles hitting a nice even 100 Def.

And for the 100th time, good and bad are subjective qualities.

There was never any objectivity here, who's best has been and always will be 100% subjective.

The problem with Yarne!Morgan, in my book, is no starting weapon ranks - that's a pretty damn serious problem when Arms Scrolls are rare (it's also why I'm not find of Panne as a mother for Morgan). Basically, Morgan gets screwed over no matter what (either stay in Taguel with its piss-poor weapons or reclass out and have to dig my way out of E weapon ranks - a lose-lose situation). And that's on top of the downsides that marrying a child unit has.

Not really hard to raise weapon ranks without arms scrolls. E weapon rank and with a D you get a Hand axe or Javelin for axes and spears at least.

However, Morgan is the best unit in the game, so he/she will be godly regardless of his/her parentage. I would recommend that you pass Galeforce down to a male Morgan from the female Avatar since it's the best skill in the game.

Galeforce is mostly a convenience skill IMO and when you hit the point you can't one round an enemy then it's not triggering anyway.

[Terrador]

And for the 100th time, good and bad are subjective qualities.

There was never any objectivity here, who's best has been and always will be 100% subjective.

Uh, no. Awakening, even L+, is an environment where very nearly every unit in the game (with the possible exception of late-mid joiners without strong utility--Henry and Say'ri come to mind as the worst offenders, though even they are salvageable) can be used, it's just a matter of how much bang you get for your buck, and how long they contribute for.

Avatar offers a tremendous amount of bang for the least EXP resource, and among your strongest units even without early Second Seal investment, and if given that Second Seal, Avatar goes from "strong" to "could solo Lunatic or below by pressing Start with any waifu in the back". Avatar is really damn good.

Units like Chrom, Sumia, Sully, and (to a somewhat lesser extent) other early joiners like Panne, Stahl, and Lon'qu typically require some resource investment (Sumia wants lots of EXP and the Killer Lance, Chrom/Panne/Lon'qu want Second Seals, Stahl/Sully are pretty low-maintenance). These units are good. Not great, but good.

Then you have units who are like the above tier, but a bit worse, and then...

You have Donnel. Donnel needs a level of investment to even exist, which, to be fair, shouldn't really count against him if we're using him for some crazy reason. The big issue is that, ten levels in, Donnel is still garbage, in front and in back; he requires a Second Seal to function. And when he does get that Second Seal, his Enemy Phase is still very limited; he has to either eat an Arms Scroll, or pick off Player Phase kills or simply gain weapon rank in the back (chewing even MORE resources) before he can fight as a lead unit without becoming a liability in areas with any 2-range density to speak of (which is Most of the Game, by the by). Donnel rams his caps something like ten levels quicker than the rest of the cast, as far as I'm aware, sure. Shame that the other members of the cast with his resources are only a couple of stat points behind for one part of the game, have more potential for skill combos, and contribute during the first difficult arc of the game.

Donnel isn't the worst unit in the game--he's around early enough to be useful in Valm, which can't be said of, to varying extents, Say'ri, Tharja, and Henry, though Gregor, Nowi, and Gaius kind of have this problem too. The issue is that, instead of Donnel, you could use any unit that joins before him or concurrently, get much better earlygame results, have a lategame deficit that's so small it doesn't matter, and see functionality without greatly-contended resources (in particular, not being garbage in a no-Anna environment where they might have to wait until as late as Chapter 16 to Seal over!).

E: Valm!Taguel is underrated as well, there are PILES of mounted units to chew up, especially as a support unit.

Edited January 10, 2016 by Terrador

[Shadow Mir]

E: Valm!Taguel is underrated as well, there are PILES of mounted units to chew up, especially as a support unit.

Beast Killers are a thing, as are Rapiers, so...

Edited January 11, 2016 by Levant Colthearts

[Admiral "Bull" Halsey]

Speaking of Lunatic+, I do recall that in Paralogue 1 Archers have Pass, making it difficult (and near-impossible) to level up Donnel in order to recruit him... =_=

Edited January 11, 2016 by Formerly Colm

[Dwlr]

Uh, no. Awakening, even L+, is an environment where very nearly every unit in the game (with the possible exception of late-mid joiners without strong utility--Henry and Say'ri come to mind as the worst offenders, though even they are salvageable) can be used, it's just a matter of how much bang you get for your buck, and how long they contribute for.

Avatar offers a tremendous amount of bang for the least EXP resource, and among your strongest units even without early Second Seal investment, and if given that Second Seal, Avatar goes from "strong" to "could solo Lunatic or below by pressing Start with any waifu in the back". Avatar is really damn good.

Units like Chrom, Sumia, Sully, and (to a somewhat lesser extent) other early joiners like Panne, Stahl, and Lon'qu typically require some resource investment (Sumia wants lots of EXP and the Killer Lance, Chrom/Panne/Lon'qu want Second Seals, Stahl/Sully are pretty low-maintenance). These units are good. Not great, but good.

Then you have units who are like the above tier, but a bit worse, and then...

You have Donnel. Donnel needs a level of investment to even exist, which, to be fair, shouldn't really count against him if we're using him for some crazy reason. The big issue is that, ten levels in, Donnel is still garbage, in front and in back; he requires a Second Seal to function. And when he does get that Second Seal, his Enemy Phase is still very limited; he has to either eat an Arms Scroll, or pick off Player Phase kills or simply gain weapon rank in the back (chewing even MORE resources) before he can fight as a lead unit without becoming a liability in areas with any 2-range density to speak of (which is Most of the Game, by the by). Donnel rams his caps something like ten levels quicker than the rest of the cast, as far as I'm aware, sure. Shame that the other members of the cast with his resources are only a couple of stat points behind for one part of the game, have more potential for skill combos, and contribute during the first difficult arc of the game.

Donnel isn't the worst unit in the game--he's around early enough to be useful in Valm, which can't be said of, to varying extents, Say'ri, Tharja, and Henry, though Gregor, Nowi, and Gaius kind of have this problem too. The issue is that, instead of Donnel, you could use any unit that joins before him or concurrently, get much better earlygame results, have a lategame deficit that's so small it doesn't matter, and see functionality without greatly-contended resources (in particular, not being garbage in a no-Anna environment where they might have to wait until as late as Chapter 16 to Seal over!).

E: Valm!Taguel is underrated as well, there are PILES of mounted units to chew up, especially as a support unit.

Again when talking about 'best' in a qualitative sense it's subjective that's simply a fact end of story. No matter the arguments, no matter who agrees or disagrees, it is ALWAYS subjective. The only way you can say something is the 'best' in an objective sense if it's a quantitative sense. There exists the possibility that every single level Robin gets +0 now is this statistically likely? No, it's not, but since that scenario is possible you cannot say that Robin is among the strongest unit even if it's true 99.9% of the true. So like everybody arguing as if it's an objective quality you haven't a leg to stand irregardless if it tends to be true and that seems to be what pretty much everybody in this thread can't seem to wrap their head around.

Something can't be underrated, saying something is underrated or overrated is equivalent to say you just don't agree with what is perceived to be the popular opinion, it's the same boat as trying to qualitatively labeling X as better than Y. Something is rated where it's rated regardless if you agree with how people rate something that's what it's rated and it cannot ever be underrated or overrated.

[Thor Odinson]

Beast Killers are a thing, as are Rapiers, so...

Not really

Not on the enemy side anyway

There might be like, one beast killer that can be easily avoided by not playing like a dumbass (check ranges, highlight, etc) but most enemies can't even fucking use Rapier/Noble Rapier, unless they're Marth, and you know when you're going up against Marth because you chose to fight Marth

If you claim that the maybe 1 beastslayer that might be in the game (that I can't even remember because it's so irrelevant) is too much to check range for then you should probably not play Fire Emblem

Case in point: I ran Lunatic nogrind with a team of Great Knights, and ran Lunatic+ nogrind bowtanking with Bow Knight, neither even gave remotely any fucks

Edited January 11, 2016 by Thor Odinson

[Shadow Mir]

Not really

Not on the enemy side anyway

There might be like, one beast killer that can be easily avoided by not playing like a dumbass (check ranges, highlight, etc) but most enemies can't even fucking use Rapier/Noble Rapier, unless they're Marth, and you know when you're going up against Marth because you chose to fight Marth

If you claim that the maybe 1 beastslayer that might be in the game (that I can't even remember because it's so irrelevant) is too much to check range for then you should probably not play Fire Emblem

Case in point: I ran Lunatic nogrind with a team of Great Knights, and ran Lunatic+ nogrind bowtanking with Bow Knight, neither even gave remotely any fucks

That wasn't what I meant - I meant that Beast Killers and Rapiers are better against the crap that Taguels hit for effective damage because they can be forged, for one, and second, Beaststones have pathetic Mt. It doesn't really help that your first Beaststone+ comes a bit late (read: right after the mountspam chapter). As another nail in the coffin, an unforged Beast Killer is only slightly weaker than a Beaststone+ against the relevant targets.

[Thor Odinson]

That wasn't what I meant - I meant that Beast Killers and Rapiers are better against the crap that Taguels hit for effective damage because they can be forged, for one, and second, Beaststones have pathetic Mt. It doesn't really help that your first Beaststone+ comes a bit late (read: right after the mountspam chapter). As another nail in the coffin, an unforged Beast Killer is only slightly weaker than a Beaststone+ against the relevant targets.

I was there for that particular playthrough of his, and I'm pretty sure he meant that shove panne in the back got rid of a lot of mounts on DS. While not optimal, it's surprisingly effective.

Just because there's an optimal solution doesn't mean others don't hold merit. Something so variant like FE should encourage multiple solutions to the problem. The implication here isn't that underrated suddenly mean it's THE BEST, it's just "hey, some shit that works better than people give it credit for"

Hell, my preferred solution is handaxe to the face to everything, it works!

Edited January 11, 2016 by Thor Odinson

[Shadow Mir]

I was there for that particular playthrough of his, and I'm pretty sure he meant that shove panne in the back got rid of a lot of mounts on DS. While not optimal, it's surprisingly effective.

Just because there's an optimal solution doesn't mean others don't hold merit. Something so variant like FE should encourage multiple solutions to the problem. The implication here isn't that underrated suddenly mean it's THE BEST, it's just "hey, some shit that works better than people give it credit for"

Hell, my preferred solution is handaxe to the face to everything, it works!

Fair enough. That said, I'd only really consider Beastbane a major selling point on a no-reclass run or something.

Edited January 11, 2016 by Levant Colthearts

[Jave]

One thing to keep in mind if you're doing Chrom x Maribelle is to be careful not to leave Sumia unmarried, otherwise you miss on her daughter a.k.a. Best Character in the Game. With Chrom taken and this being a FemAvatar run, her only options are Frederick, Gaius and Henry, so if you're going for a full roster make sure you at least save one of those dudes for her.

[Seliora]

If they're playing the game for the first time, it's probably not going to be an optimization run.

Yea that. The endgame and dlc suggestions are nice but not really what tc needs right now. A myriad of simple-ish "best" option suggestions will make it likely for tc to find something to casually focus on as they enjoy their first playthrough. And something like orange haired Morgan is best might be something tc agrees with, and there's nothing wrong with that. Some of these arguments seem kinda pointless given the tc's circumstances.

[eclipse]

Yea that. The endgame and dlc suggestions are nice but not really what tc needs right now. A myriad of simple-ish "best" option suggestions will make it likely for tc to find something to casually focus on as they enjoy their first playthrough. And something like orange haired Morgan is best might be something tc agrees with, and there's nothing wrong with that. Some of these arguments seem kinda pointless given the tc's circumstances.

In which case, "anything goes" is the answer, and I should lock the topic because someone said this as the first reply (BTW, I wouldn't do this, because there's a lot of discussion in here, and it's relatively on-topic). It's really, REALLY hard to screw up a character who has access to nearly all of the skills in the game - even if Morgan's mods get shafted to hell and back, he can still function by passing down Rally Speed, and ending with Rally Spectrum/Strength/Magic/Speed/Skill or Luck.

However, once the argument of "this person is the best" comes up for less-than-ideal reasons, it's not so good. It would be like me saying that Kellam!Gerome is the best father because he has the best defense mod - yeah, it's a big shiny number, but what's the point? I think arguing character personality/hair color would be a lot more productive.

[Dwlr]

In which case, "anything goes" is the answer

That's the point, trying to argue that something is objectively the best when the very topic at hand is impossible any reason at all can put one father ahead of another for anybody and yet people here including yourself are arguing as if there is some sort of definitive answer to who is the best or rather at least some definitive answer as to who isn't the best simply because based on your specifications they aren't in the running for your idea of the best ergo the people arguing X is "better" than Y are in fact just pointlessly arguing as I've been saying over and over and over again.

[Vascela]

All we're saying is that there is a difference in performance between fathers. Sure, you can play the "every father is unique" card, but at the end of the day, some data is more convenient than others.