Controversial Aspects in Fates? (Possible Censorship in NA?)

[BrightBow]

I'm not criticizing the game. I'm criticizing the "it offends me so it should be removed" mentality. It's the old right-wing "Think of the children!" rhetoric of the 90s with a new coat of paint.

You are comparing ill informed parents panicking over media intended for their children to actual customers criticizing content in media that they are expected to consume and buy. I don't know were you see the similarities between those two things.

[arvilino]

You are comparing ill informed parents panicking over media intended for their children to actual customers criticizing content in media that they are expected to consume and buy. I don't know were you see the similarities between those two things.

The lines between those really blurr together as people who have no intention of buying the product try to throw about their opinion on it or those who have an ideal version of a product see something that strays from it.

Honestly the only thing I could say for people who are getting offended at what is going to be a product rated suitable for 12 and up "If you don't enjoy it anymore then stop". Much like suspension of disbelief there are going to be things that "ruin the atmosphere" for anyone. If someone is only going to view the game(s)'s aspects as it adapts to the changing market in only the worst, grossest, most offensive possible conceivable way they aren't many steps far off from an angry soccermom/priest ranting about how Harry Potter encourages satanism through witchcraft.

Edited January 8, 2016 by arvilino

[BrightBow]

The lines between those really blurr together as people who have no intention of buying the product try to throw about their opinion on it or those who have an ideal version of a product see something that strays from it.

This is a fan forum. Does who "have no intention of buying the product" wouldn't be here. And I am pretty sure no one in this thread has so far brought up the argument that the game might be harmful for children. That would hardly be the same as saying that one prefers not to have lolicon in their games.

[Dark Sage]

The lines between those really blurr together as people who have no intention of buying the product try to throw about their opinion on it or those who have an ideal version of a product see something that strays from it.

Honestly the only thing I could say for people who are getting offended at what is going to be a product rated suitable for 12 and up "If you don't enjoy it anymore then stop". Much like suspension of disbelief there are going to be things that "ruin the atmosphere" for anyone. If someone is only going to view the game(s)'s aspects as it adapts to the changing market in only the worst, grossest, most offensive possible conceivable way they aren't many steps far off from an angry soccermom/priest ranting about how Harry Potter encourages satanism through witchcraft.

This is extremely disingenuous. The angry extreme religious conservatives claiming Harry Potter encourages satanism is nonsense because there is no evidence in the text whatsoever that suggests anything of the sort. It's based on people who are ill-informed about the product they're protesting against. A game that is infamous for being targeted by moral guardians, Grand Theft Auto, is different in that it contains content that is unsuitable for minors but the reasons why people make fun of them for it is because a)GTA is not meant to be played by children to begin with and b)the player is meant to control a morally bankrupt murderer and criminal, so it makes sense to have the options that arouse such ire since that's kind of the point of the game and contributes to the atmosphere.

This is somewhat different. People protesting the skeevier elements in Fates are informed about the product, they know what they're talking about here. You can scoff all you want about "ruining the atmosphere" but the fact is that the developers did have a certain tone and atmosphere they're trying to convey, so including elements such as skinship, marriageable siblings, and pedophilia and not handling any of them with maturity undermines what they're going for. I don't think you can honestly defend some of the shit people are opposed to when the game is so blatant about its intentions. Furthermore, the optional argument, weak as it is already, breaks down further for people who do care about accessing all the content. If you want all the kids and you don't marry off an underage character to someone, then you lose a character and a paralogue map (and two if you're a male Avatar that marries a non-Kamuisexual, non-child unit). That is some bullshit.

You can tell people to stop playing FE or find a different game to play if it bothers them, but games made in the style of Fire Emblem are a dying breed and there are increasingly fewer games that avoid the kind of crap that FE is adopting, which is kind of sad.

Edited January 8, 2016 by Dark Sage

[CrimeanRoyalKnight]

The lines between those really blurr together as people who have no intention of buying the product try to throw about their opinion on it or those who have an ideal version of a product see something that strays from it.

Honestly the only thing I could say for people who are getting offended at what is going to be a product rated suitable for 12 and up "If you don't enjoy it anymore then stop". Much like suspension of disbelief there are going to be things that "ruin the atmosphere" for anyone. If someone is only going to view the game(s)'s aspects as it adapts to the changing market in only the worst, grossest, most offensive possible conceivable way they aren't many steps far off from an angry soccermom/priest ranting about how Harry Potter encourages satanism through witchcraft.

Except people here are pretty much gonna buy the game. We are its audience, unlike soccer moms and priests, unlike tumblr people who reblog a rant against Fates' stuff they don't like because it clicks with them. Et cetera.

It's a bit of a hyperbole, what you say.

In my case-- I dislike the shotacon and lolicon in this game; I'm glad it's optional, but I still want to say that, FOR ME, it's shit and I don't like it in the game.

Why should I adapt to something I'm pretty much allergic to? Am I supposed to like everything the game throws at me? I'm a customer, and if somebody asks me to tell them what I liked about the game or not, I am going to say all sort of things about the gameplay, story and art direction. If some shit "ruined the atmosphere" then sorry, I'm gonna mention what ruined it for me.

Does loli/shota ruin Fates for me? A bit, even if it's optional; I can forget about it, but it's still there, if I play as a male avatar Elise can still be my wife and that is fucked up. I wish I could form a bond with my little sister without being reminded I can get her pregnant by the tiny green "s". Jesus, this is not a OMG TRAVESTY DELETE IT FOREVER deal like, I don't know, a whole series of maps that suck, or a story that ruins the whole game, it's something that irks me and makes my experience less good than what it could be. It is simply something like anything else in the game that I might not like.

Am I saying that the content I dislike should be nuked? No. I'm simply stating what content I dislike in the game. I'm saying "I wish it wasn't there", not "It should be removed in the Western release".

How is this any different from someone saying "Smash Tour sucks, it shouldn't have been in Sm4sh"?

Now, if Fates turns out to be a technical masterpiece, I'm going to praise it, I'm not gonna remove my praise because of lolicon. But I would say the pedo was not appreciated on the story/character development side.

And you know what? I know fans of FE, such as my sister, who stopped playing FE because of the recent change, so yeah, people who don't enjoy it anymore stop.

If I must specify, she especially stopped because of lolicon and shotacon. But unlike immature people she accepted the change and stopped playing.

[solrocknroll]

I think a ton of issues are vastly overblown. I mean, there are people who loved Xander/Ryoma before we even knew their names or that they were related to the MC. Those people would have no control. Leo and Hinoka also had instant fans, with people claiming Hinoka as a wife.

It's not their fault that Corrin has siblings. IntSys let the people who loved them immediately to have that choice, and I appreciate it, even if I personally won't marry any siblings.

I love marriage, and especially the addition of marrying Zero/Shara.

I have never let skimpy outfits bother me and I'd likely have no patience left if I did. Awakening's children like Noire were great and I see no issue marrying them. I see no issue marrying the younglings (Midoriko, Lutz, sisters) with a young build. However, I will say that Build 2 Male looks insanely creepy next to them. I actually wish Corrin had a Shota form like Robin did.

[Sunwoo]

If IS wanted to give players the option to marry siblings, they should have not marketed them as siblings in the first place. So what if characters like Leon and Hinoka had instant fans, with people claiming them as their husbando or waifu? IS also said that they were going to write a better story. Either commit to the story by sticking to the family theme or don't make them your siblings in the first place. And besides, the real problem with sibling marriage isn't that they're not related to you. It's the copout reveal that they are not your blood siblings and the lack of realistic reaction from anyone other than "cool so we can bang now". It just does not work that way.

[solrocknroll]

I think the siblings thing was as a whole not a very good idea. Marrying everyone and still giving them siblings is incredibly counterproductive.

I think that making Azura the sibling of both and making Corrin completely unrelated would have been aces for the story. Make Azura actually Hoshidan instead of actually Nohrian and make Corrin her trusted advisor? She could have been kidnapped by Nohr.

A lot of the story's pitfalls also could have been avoided if Azura had a stronger focus in the story. The original trailer showed her dancing between Ryoma and Xander. Pretty much everyone predicted her to be the one making the choice Shakespeare-style, and it just didn't happen.

which ironically would put her in Chrom's place Smash wise even if in this scenario I'd prefer Azura in Smash.

[Solkia]

I feel like art should exist as a medium not bound by societal views.

If art is pushing someone's buttons it's doing something right.

but NoA has no spine for anything other than legal trolling. so I can see the Soleil thing being overhauled, and less likely the whole "marry your adopted siblings" thing

[Captain Karnage]

I feel like art should exist as a medium not bound by societal views.

If art is pushing someone's buttons it's doing something right.

but NoA has no spine for anything other than legal trolling. so I can see the Soleil thing being overhauled, and less likely the whole "marry your adopted siblings" thing

I have the exact same opinion

I've also noticed that in a lot of Corrin's s supports, the other character brings up "This love is forbidden" quite often, so atleast they adress the taboo.

Edited January 9, 2016 by Captain Karnage

[nordopolica]

I have the exact same opinion

I've also noticed that in a lot of Corrin's s supports the other character brings up "This love is forbidden" quite often, so atleast they adress the taboo.

The problem I and a lot of other people hve on this front is that even if it is addressed in isolated instances within one or two supports, it is mentioned never again so you can have circumstances where Kamui marries one of their siblings and still refer to them/ are still referred to as such; e.g. Big Brothers/Sisters are rampant within the main script regardless of your marriage option. It's for this reason that the 'taboo' just feels cheap and shoehorned in - a monopoly on the mechanic that ostensibly made Awakening popular regardless of how it affects the overall theme of the narrative.

[NekoKnight]

The problem I and a lot of other people hve on this front is that even if it is addressed in isolated instances within one or two supports, it is mentioned never again so you can have circumstances where Kamui marries one of their siblings and still refer to them/ are still referred to as such; e.g. Big Brothers/Sisters are rampant within the main script regardless of your marriage option. It's for this reason that the 'taboo' just feels cheap and shoehorned in - a monopoly on the mechanic that ostensibly made Awakening popular regardless of how it affects the overall theme of the narrative.

And even if the taboo nature of the romance were acknowledged by the two individuals, it still leaves out how everyone else would react to the pseudo-incest.

[Captain Karnage]

The problem I and a lot of other people hve on this front is that even if it is addressed in isolated instances within one or two supports, it is mentioned never again so you can have circumstances where Kamui marries one of their siblings and still refer to them/ are still referred to as such; e.g. Big Brothers/Sisters are rampant within the main script regardless of your marriage option. It's for this reason that the 'taboo' just feels cheap and shoehorned in - a monopoly on the mechanic that ostensibly made Awakening popular regardless of how it affects the overall theme of the narrative.

I think that's more of an issue with the japanese language and that the fans are giving it a 1 to 1 translation

I don't know how to properly word this so,,

In english we hardly ever call our sibling big brother/ little brother, we adress them by name. The only times we ever really use big sister/little sister is when we say how they are related to us.

I'm not sure if you have siblings or not but I don't think you would reguarally adress them as big/little bro/sis and you would probably call them by the name they go by

So I think it has more to do with the Japanese language than any thing

I imagine when we get our hands on the english version (outside the cutscenes) the siblings will probably use the name we go by in game.

(and I won't consider the change censorship) (translating word for word doesn't always come out right in the language you're translating to)

Edited January 9, 2016 by Captain Karnage

[nordopolica]

I think that's more of an issue with the japanese language and that the fans are giving it a 1 to 1 translation

I don't know how to properly word this so,,

In english we hardly ever call our sibling big brother/ little brother, we adress them by name. The only times we ever really use big sister/little sister is when we say how they are related to us.

I'm not sure if you have siblings or not but I don't think you would reguarally adress them as big/little bro/sis and you would probably call them by the name they go by

So I think it has more to do with the language than any thing

I imagine when we get our hands on the english version (outside the cutscenes) the siblings will probably use the name we go by in game

We've already got examples from the localisation wherein Big Brother/Big Sister is still used, therefore regardless of what happens in real-life English-speaking families, and unless they have added marriage variables to the dialogue, the problem still exists.

EDIT: Also, what NekoKnight said below. I find it strange you would discount the inconsistencies of the Japanese version simply because it's not the one you'll play and disregarding it as a language barrier, when there are examples that contradict this. Takumi stands out the most to me in this respect.

Edited January 9, 2016 by nordopolica

[NekoKnight]

I think that's more of an issue with the japanese language and that the fans are giving it a 1 to 1 translation

I don't know how to properly word this so,,

In english we hardly ever call our sibling big brother/ little brother, we adress them by name. The only times we ever really use big sister/little sister is when we say how they are related to us.

I'm not sure if you have siblings or not but I don't think you would reguarally adress them as big/little bro/sis and you would probably call them by the name they go by

So I think it has more to do with the language than any thing

I imagine when we get our hands on the english version (outside the cutscenes) the siblings will probably use the name we go by in game

You'd call your lover by name in Japanese, so it still doesn't work in the conventions of the language. Takumi has a line with Aqua like "I can only think of you as a woman now, neesan." It's a contradiction.

[Alazen]

A lot of the story's pitfalls also could have been avoided if Azura had a stronger focus in the story. The original trailer showed her dancing between Ryoma and Xander. Pretty much everyone predicted her to be the one making the choice Shakespeare-style, and it just didn't happen.

which ironically would put her in Chrom's place Smash wise even if in this scenario I'd prefer Azura in Smash.

Aqua has the same problem as Lucina in that the marketing spinned her as this mysterious character apparently working the cogs of fate, yet in the games itself she serves as an expositionbot who can be axed from the narrative with it being largely the same.

[RJWalker]

IS is not doing it for the art or to push buttons or anything. It's a popular fetish and they're pandering to it. It's that simple.

[wponinw]

ewwwwwwww i swear u can marry takumi, marx, hinoka and marx to however u want but don't marry them cuz ur a freak if u do also applies to aqua. them sisters/brothers calling u oneechan/niichan when ur being romantic together gross so bad hate how theyre pandering to dirty otakus especially with elise and sakura if i could i would protect them and i will in my playthroughs they stayin single FOREVER also lutz and tsukuyomi

Edited January 10, 2016 by wponinw

[Solkia]

IS is not doing it for the art or to push buttons or anything. It's a popular fetish and they're pandering to it. It's that simple.

Well I'm not denying that.

Ultimately I think some changes are fine in localizations, such as not making Vivian a walking trans joke in the english version of TTYD. It was the same cruel context but less topical so it worked.

In fates other than the drugging part I haven't heard of anything majorly offensive.

[Book of Ereshkigal]

IS is not doing it for the art or to push buttons or anything. It's a popular fetish and they're pandering to it. It's that simple.

I would imagine anyone with an actual sibling incest fetish would be very disappointed lol. Especially with things like Sakura pulling out a letter saying they're not related in the S support.

(Come on new FE team, don't chicken out on the incest, you were so close.)

Edited January 10, 2016 by L95

[RJWalker]

I would imagine anyone with an actual sibling incest fetish would be very disappointed lol. Especially with things like Sakura pulling out a letter saying they're not related in the S support.

(Come on new FE team, don't chicken out on the incest, you were so close.)

No, I'm saying the 'Not blood related' is a bigger fetish than straight up sibling incest. Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure that it's only cousin incest that is culturally accepted in Japan.

[EJ107]

The only thing that I really expect to be addressed for certain (and hope is) are Lutz/Midoriko as marriage options. I mean the other characters look like they could be 16+ (Elise and Sakura are pushing it) but those two are very clearly kids. The fact that Kanna is born during the events of the game leaves no ambiguity over the physical aspects of the relationship either, which only makes it worse.

I don't think that simply deepening the voices will address it, as Nowi had the 'really 1000 years old' thing going on as a (weak) excuse, and even then it was controversial.

I also expect to see the sibling aspect toned down, particularly when S-ranks are involved.

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

The only thing that I really expect to be addressed for certain (and hope is) are Lutz/Midoriko as marriage options. I mean the other characters look like they could be 16+ (Elise and Sakura are pushing it) but those two are very clearly kids. The fact that Kanna is born during the events of the game leaves no ambiguity over the physical aspects of the relationship either, which only makes it worse.

I don't think that simply deepening the voices will address it, as Nowi had the 'really 1000 years old' thing going on as a (weak) excuse, and even then it was controversial.

I also expect to see the sibling aspect toned down, particularly when S-ranks are involved.

thank you, this makes the whole "its clear that all the children are adults" comments seem more silly then it already was.

[Seliora]

ewwwwwwww i swear u can marry takumi, marx, hinoka and marx to however u want but don't marry them cuz ur a freak if u do also applies to aqua. them sisters/brothers calling u oneechan/niichan when ur being romantic together gross so bad hate how theyre pandering to dirty otakus especially with elise and sakura if i could i would protect them and i will in my playthroughs they stayin single FOREVER also lutz and tsukuyomi

I'm probably not supposed to be taking this seriously, but grow up, guy.

What's the overall precedent for FE localization when it comes to issues like this. Not very good is it?

[Tryhard]

What's the overall precedent for FE localization when it comes to issues like this. Not very good is it?

They don't generally have drastic changes like ripping out features. They have made things more obscure or ambiguous. They have also changed characters personalities (and even character details) like in Awakening. I think it's safe to say that some things will be changed, but I would bet not reworking any features, though I could be wrong.