Great Geargia Gateway Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 If Japan even think incest is a taboo, then why put it anywhere? Why a thing o much in anime/manga/Japanese games? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Book Bro Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 ewwwwwwww i swear u can marry takumi, marx, hinoka and marx to however u want but don't marry them cuz ur a freak if u do also applies to aqua. them sisters/brothers calling u oneechan/niichan when ur being romantic together gross so bad hate how theyre pandering to dirty otakus especially with elise and sakura if i could i would protect them and i will in my playthroughs they stayin single FOREVER also lutz and tsukuyomi This post is amazing, especially because it has been edited Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimeanRoyalKnight Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 If Japan even think incest is a taboo, then why put it anywhere? Why a thing o much in anime/manga/Japanese games? Otaku. Otaku are accepting things a normal Japanese person usually wouldn't because they have a fetish for it, or have been desensitized to it due to the media they consume, or both. Like, for example, a lot of people, to defend lolicon and shotacon (now staples of anime/manga works), say the age of consent is 13... but it's only half true. It's legal if the people are both 13 or one is very near their partner's age, and in some regions of Japan, the age of consent is higher due to their slightly different laws. Also Otaku are not seen well by society, and lolicon is a national shame (I read this in an article from 1999 so this stance could very well have been changed). If somebody knows more about Japanese culture than me, feel free to correct me. I could be wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great Geargia Gateway Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 Well if Otaku aren't well received, then why keep pandering to them. It makes me question IS among the other directors of most fluff anime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astrophys Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 I thought it was because Otaku have been found to spend their income disproportionately on their interests here relative to the rest of the population, such that they constitute a disproportionate amount of money that gets paid into the industry compared to their size within the general population. They're in other words a highly profitable demographic to target. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrightBow Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 (edited) Well if Otaku aren't well received, then why keep pandering to them. It makes me question IS among the other directors of most fluff anime. Because they are dedicated customers who are willing to invest a lot of money into their passion. Besides, it's not like IS is advertising the game like that. I mean, look for example at how the cover of Conquest puts Camilla into the background. http://serenesforest.net/wp-content/gallery/april-2015-nintendo-direct/nohr0.jpg It makes her appear very different as that infamous little cutscene does, doesn't it? Female Kamui is also framed in a way that doesn't emphasize that silly hole in her tights. And everyone else on the cover is dressed rather modestly.Compare that to the cover of a game like Senran Kagura, who went out of their way to get the point across that the game does in fact feature boobs: http://www.gamefaqs.com/3ds/668742-senran-kagura-burst/images/1260240 Btw, the European cover is even better: "Two good reasons to turn your 3D on". Also, it advertises clothing damage as a feature. http://www.gamefaqs.com/3ds/668742-senran-kagura-burst/images/1334483 Come to think of it, Fire Emblem Fates has clothing damage too. But I don't think that they put that on the back of the box. And in-game, the siblings are just one option out of many. Casual players won't be be confronted with that in the same way as the dedicated fans will be. And even if it actually does alienate parts of the mainstream, by the time they see stuff like the Camilla cutscene or whatever, they would have already paid for the game anyway. So either way, IS wouldn't feel any immediate consequences. Edited January 17, 2016 by BrightBow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwlr Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 And in-game, the siblings are just one option out of many. Casual players won't be be confronted with that in the same way as the dedicated fans will be. There's no law in japan against incest so it should be a non-issue IMO, it's a Japanese game take it as is or leave it. Any censorship disguising itself as localization I'm against regardless of what it is, you can vote with your dollar instead of trying to appease the vocal minority complaining they're offended by this or that, you're never going to please everybody. Every state in the US allows marriage to your second cousin, most allow first cousins, West Virginia has no criminalized incest even if it's illegal to marry your mother or something, it's not a crime to sleep with them. - Just to hit on the same sex 'issue', whilst I am tired of games purposely putting it in just to have it, at this point it should be a non-issue either especially if it's optional those opposed really shouldn't have anything against it's inclusion seeing as they don't have to deal with it or if it offends them on that big of a level for it's mere optional inclusion they need to just stop whining and not buy it, y'know like mature individuals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skynstein Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 Oh boy, NoA won't resist using the scissors in this one. :P People on SF complained so much about Waifu Emblem that IntSys gave us an evolved form, Moe Emblem. Gotta love IntSys. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrightBow Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 (edited) There's no law in japan against incest so it should be a non-issue IMO, it's a Japanese game take it as is or leave it. Any censorship disguising itself as localization I'm against regardless of what it is, you can vote with your dollar instead of trying to appease the vocal minority complaining they're offended by this or that, you're never going to please everybody. Every state in the US allows marriage to your second cousin, most allow first cousins, West Virginia has no criminalized incest even if it's illegal to marry your mother or something, it's not a crime to sleep with them. Funny enough, I actually agree with you. It's just that IS is so damn pretentious, Look at the images I posted from Senran Kagura. They are very open about their games being shallow fap material. And that's not a bad thing by any means. By contrast, IS likes to pretend that they are still doing serious drama and create engaging worlds when they are producing what amounts to little more then a digital blowjob. As far as I am concerned, whatever you do, have some dedication to it, dare to have an identity, actually be something. Edit: Oh and btw, any "censorship disguising itself as localization" that NoA and NoE might do, would be done in order to maximize profit. I think that this is very much in the spirit of a half-baked and cynical product like Fates. Edited January 17, 2016 by BrightBow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skynstein Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 Funny enough, I actually agree with you. It's just that IS is so damn pretentious, Look at the images I posted from Senran Kagura. They are very open about their games being shallow fap material. And that's not a bad thing by any means. By contrast, IS likes to pretend that they are still doing serious drama and create engaging worlds when they are producing what amounts to little more then a digital blowjob. As far as I am concerned, whatever you do, have some dedication to it, dare to have an identity, actually be something. IMO the biggest issue with SF veterans is that they want something like Lord of the Rings out of a game which is nowhere near as ambitious with its lore and isn't been written by one of the most influential fantasy writers in history. Besides, Japanese culture is different. It appeals to niche groups within the Western nerd community. It's naïve to jump into anime stuff without expecting stuff like this. The sex and blatant fanservice in the works of Type-Moon and others by no means make them inferior. If you don't like it, maybe it's just not for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimeanRoyalKnight Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 But incest is still seen as forbidden in Japan, at least between brother/sister (not between cousins). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrightBow Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 (edited) IMO the biggest issue with SF veterans is that they want something like Lord of the Rings out of a game which is nowhere near as ambitious with its lore and isn't been written by one of the most influential fantasy writers in history. Besides, Japanese culture is different. It appeals to niche groups within the Western nerd community. It's naïve to jump into anime stuff without expecting stuff like this. The sex and blatant fanservice in the works of Type-Moon and others by no means make them inferior. If you don't like it, maybe it's just not for you. Man, I would have hoped that having a Madoka themed Avatar might help to reduce instances of the usual "that's Japanese culture" and "anime is not for you" fallacies. The very fact that Fire Emblem managed to last for over 20 years without as much as a single panty shot should already show that this juvenile crap can't possibly be that deeply integrated into Japanese culture. Edited January 17, 2016 by BrightBow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwlr Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 Edit: Oh and btw, any "censorship disguising itself as localization" that NoA and NoE might do, would be done in order to maximize profit. I think that this is very much in the spirit of a half-baked and cynical product like Fates. I'm aware of why they do it, but that's what it boils down to. It's censorship hiding behind "Well it's localization to fit with the culture difference", digital representations of such scenarios aren't illegal here so it's not necessary "localization" it's plain and simple censorship to sell better which I'm also quite aware that the definition of localization fits that use, but that's not really the 'spirit' of it. If we wanted to get technical about it Fire Emblem is illegal in Oklahoma. Oklahoma has a state law that says any fictional work that includes the killing or maiming of another individual is considered "disturbing fiction" and is illegal with penalty of upto 10 years in state prison, but I don't see the "localization" for that because it's not really enforced and it's not going to make the papers if something like that is released there considering nobody is really going to whine about it. Bottom-line is atleast call it what it is if they're going to change it, call it censorship and own up to it, I'd at least have more respect for it at that point instead of trying to say it doesn't conform to western cultural views when they dub it localization. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimeanRoyalKnight Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 Man, I would have hoped that having a Madoka themed Avatar might help to reduce instances of the usual "that's Japanese culture" and "anime is not for you" fallacies. The very fact that Fire Emblem managed to last for over 20 years without as much as a single panty shot should already show that this juvenile crap can't possibly be that deeply integrated into Japanese culture. Well, I've read a lot of different manga, and I'd say it's not. What we see is just part of Japanese culture, and all geared towards a certain demographic. I doubt all of Japanese culture is like Fates. It's like saying all American culture is Super Hero comics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Laufeyson Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 Well if Otaku aren't well received, then why keep pandering to them. It makes me question IS among the other directors of most fluff anime. Money, dear boy. I also believe that this game was not originally planned to have this amount of fluff in it. It just seems like they kept going "hey that sounds like a good idea!" and kept adding a bunch of shit until it got weird. I want to remark on how this game is being marketed internationally. The Japanese marketing definitely put a lot of emphasis on the fluff in later promotional material. (like that My Castle Direct) It also marketed the story really heavily. Im not really seeing a lot of "This is an epic story and better than the previous installment" type marketing internationally. Im seeing "Choose choose choose! Look at all these choices! Choose which nation to side with! Choose which family to fight with! Choose all the things!" Corrin being in Smash with the tagline of "CHOOSES TO SMASH!" is pretty clear they are emphasizing choice. I think International audiences are going to expect something akin to a Choose Your Own Adventure VN or some junk. International marketing is also sorta sidestepping a lot of the weirder aspects of the game. The My Castle details seemed to totally ignore the fact that the Amie feature is in there. Yet, it looks like it hasnt been removed. Not much in the way of emphasis in the hot springs and fluffier parts. However, they are showing a lot of "customize the hell out of junk" kind of angle. Honestly, i think a lot of people are going to simply find the incestuous aspects more akin to stuff like Game of Thrones, and thus not get too weirded out by it. Especially if theres more ambiguity surrounding it in localization. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunwoo Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 (edited) Honestly, i think a lot of people are going to simply find the incestuous aspects more akin to stuff like Game of Thrones, and thus not get too weirded out by it. Especially if theres more ambiguity surrounding it in localization. I haven't read Game of Thrones, but I'm not sure if Fates really goes into the, ah, more sensitive aspects of incest. It just seems like it's "there" and not ever discussed responsibly or realistically. Edited January 17, 2016 by Sunwoo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Laufeyson Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 I haven't read Game of Thrones, but I'm not sure if Fates really goes into the, ah, more sensitive aspects of incest. It just seems like it's "there" and not ever discussed responsibly or realistically. To be fair, a lot of people who got into that series also thought the incest was there for the sake of it. But they kept coming back for more anyway. More casual GoT fans do feel like the incest to be almost fetish. I blame the show for that, tbh, because its the books that go more in depth with that more. This is also the part where i whinge about Fates' lack of political matches to justify the possibility of S supporting those characters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The DanMan Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 I haven't read Game of Thrones, but I'm not sure if Fates really goes into the, ah, more sensitive aspects of incest. It just seems like it's "there" and not ever discussed responsibly or realistically. To be fair, a lot of people who got into that series also thought the incest was there for the sake of it. But they kept coming back for more anyway. More casual GoT fans do feel like the incest to be almost fetish. I blame the show for that, tbh, because its the books that go more in depth with that more. This is also the part where i whinge about Fates' lack of political matches to justify the possibility of S supporting those characters. The thing is, Game of Thrones is a serious story taking place in a very messed up world. Fates has no idea what it really wants to be and is just throwing stuff in there because it might actually sell some copies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunwoo Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 Fates seems like it's trying to go for a serious theme about family and loyalty and choices, but falls flat on its face because it wants to put in fanservice-heavy elements that directly contradict the mood of the preceding/following chapters, the theme, or both. And even if it's optional, it still affects the mood and it's hard to take it seriously as a result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seliora Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 This is also the part where i whinge about Fates' lack of political matches to justify the possibility of S supporting those characters. What, the incestous ones? There doesn't have to be any political reasons for them to be valid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwlr Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 There doesn't have to be any political reasons for them to be valid. ^ Like the commercials say, love is love. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Laufeyson Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 The thing is, Game of Thrones is a serious story taking place in a very messed up world. Fates has no idea what it really wants to be and is just throwing stuff in there because it might actually sell some copies. My point, is the fact a lot of people who havent spoiled themselves are like to think that the game's incest is more like GoT than just being there. Imagine you know nothing about the game's story, and you just see "Choose your path!" and the potential to S support Xander. You are thinking "oh i feel like its GoT' because Nohr is so bleak and messed up. You arent going to realize its just fluff until the story fails to really draw attention to the fact you boned your big brother and the supports arent serious in nature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NekoKnight Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 My point, is the fact a lot of people who havent spoiled themselves are like to think that the game's incest is more like GoT than just being there. Imagine you know nothing about the game's story, and you just see "Choose your path!" and the potential to S support Xander. You are thinking "oh i feel like its GoT' because Nohr is so bleak and messed up. You arent going to realize its just fluff until the story fails to really draw attention to the fact you boned your big brother and the supports arent serious in nature. Well, it's not like they directly advertised the ability to marry your siblings before the game was released. People only figured it out by noticing a screenshot with sibling S ranks listed on it, iirc. The hopes (or fears) of Fates being anything like GoT will be quickly dispelled after playing the game and finding out the incest is all fluff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Laufeyson Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 Well, it's not like they directly advertised the ability to marry your siblings before the game was released. People only figured it out by noticing a screenshot with sibling S ranks listed on it, iirc. The hopes (or fears) of Fates being anything like GoT will be quickly dispelled after playing the game and finding out the incest is all fluff. Which is unfortunate, and going to result in a lot of salt from people who havent spoiled themselves. Because some people were really hoping that this would be a bleaker, more serious FE with more serious relationships and choices. Not gonna stop the fanfic authors though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanethedragon Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 (edited) Ah this topic. For the most part my opinions are as much as everyone else; I just personally wish they keep Pieri and Zero as they are right now because I love both of their characters so much. Plus not only that, imo it's nice to get deliberately disturbed and disgusted in a game once in a while. It's part of the fun of making a serious and dark overtone. This is largely one of the reasons why the Drakengard and NieR titles are amongst one of my favorite series' (call me a masochist, what of it. L+ is quite the thing). So yeah, it'd be nice for them to cater to older players, even if a majority of the FE fanbase now came in from Awakening rather than sticking through it for the past quarter-century or so. But this is Nintendo sadly, which censors bikini outfits in M rated titles released in the west (though imho I find Zelda and Samus' outfits just as nice.) Anyways, I really hope that at some point they will gradually return to all the darker themes they had back in the N64 era. Edited January 18, 2016 by Kanethedragon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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