Practicality of dragon stones

[smash-brethren]

Nohr does have some resistant enemies, like Elite Ninja, Nine-Tailed Fox, Peg and Priest(-ess) promotions.

Dragonstone is basically a poor man's Nosferatu - tanking without the recovery. Dragonstones are particularly ineffective in the midgame period before you can acquire Dragonstone+.

They're okay if the player favours the sandbagging style of play - choosing wait each turn and slowly (not fast like Nowi/Nosferatu cheese in Awakening at all) but surely destroying the enemy teams without any thought or effort.

while I'm definitely not the rush-in type I'm probably not just gonna choose wait every turn and probably slowly advance, would going dark mage --> sorcerer suit this playstyle better?

[Time the Crestfallen]

Dragonstone + Pros and Cons:

Pros:

25 Might, the highest might on a usable weapon without +5, 6 or 7 forges (and even then it's pretty high).

+9 Def and +7 Res. Extremely useful for bulky, defencive builds and even offencive builds can benefit from the bonuses at times.

Magic weapon. Defence-heavy units are more common than Resistance-heavy units.

Decent hit rate (75).

+10 Critical Evade. While not overwhelmingly useful, it can still come in handy at times.

Cons:

As far as I know, they can't be forged. This is fairly understandable, since a +7 Dragonstone + would be completely broken (36 Might, 85 Hit, 15 Crit).

Unable to double attack as well as -4 speed. Unless you have Defencive Formation, you'll be getting doubled by just about everything.

-5 Skill, so skills won't be activating as frequently.

Hit rate isn't awful, but it could be better

-10 Avoid, which can bite you in the arse on occasion.

No ranged attack.

EDIT: I forgot, it also reduces Magic and Skill by 2 every time you attack with it. Stats recover by 1 each turn, but it can really stack up on the enemies turn. Only applies if Avatar is the lead unit and the attack hits.

Edited February 3, 2016 by Phillius

[Espinosa]

while I'm definitely not the rush-in type I'm probably not just gonna choose wait every turn and probably slowly advance, would going dark mage --> sorcerer suit this playstyle better?

If you don't mind lowmanning and not ORKOing (as Nosferatu doesn't double), Nosferatu!Sorc is a failproof way of facerolling the game in Nohr/Revelations (well, mostly, Nohr does have some challenges a Sorc will not handle on their own).

A NosSorc's best pair-up partner is probably a Dark Knight, giving +mag, def and movement. You can simply reclass MU's spouse into one once they're promoted.

And yeah, I guess you won't necessarily be choosing Wait at all because some enemies will attack you at 2-range on enemy phase (thus you lose your Hit+20 against adjacent units from Dark Mage) and some foes will be threatening enough that you'll be compelled to eliminate them on player phase.

[Shadow Mir]

If you don't mind lowmanning and not ORKOing (as Nosferatu doesn't double), Nosferatu!Sorc is a failproof way of facerolling the game in Nohr/Revelations (well, mostly, Nohr does have some challenges a Sorc will not handle on their own).

A NosSorc's best pair-up partner is probably a Dark Knight, giving +mag, def and movement. You can simply reclass MU's spouse into one once they're promoted.

And yeah, I guess you won't necessarily be choosing Wait at all because some enemies will attack you at 2-range on enemy phase (thus you lose your Hit+20 against adjacent units from Dark Mage) and some foes will be threatening enough that you'll be compelled to eliminate them on player phase.

Nosferatu also has that -20 avoid penalty. And again, lowmanning isn't as effective as in previous games.

[Espinosa]

Nosferatu also has that -20 avoid penalty. And again, lowmanning isn't as effective as in previous games.

The avoid penalty is fine when you will restore the damage dealt during the same round of combat. If Jakob is your pair-up partner, you get 15 of the lost avo back and can still dodge some less accurate attacks.

Avoid penalties are generally the least painful ones as far as weapon side effects go, because you shouldn't be relying on survival from coin flip attacks in the first place and Sorc in particular will never be a dodgebot. One of the most highly acclaimed weapon types around, magical weapons (Levin Swords and Shocksticks mainly) also come with an avo penalty.

It is; you'll just be 6 level-ups above the enemy and not 36 like last game's Galeforks MU.

[Shadow Mir]

The avoid penalty is fine when you will restore the damage dealt during the same round of combat. If Jakob is your pair-up partner, you get 15 of the lost avo back and can still dodge some less accurate attacks.

Avoid penalties are generally the least painful ones as far as weapon side effects go, because you shouldn't be relying on survival from coin flip attacks in the first place and Sorc in particular will never be a dodgebot. One of the most highly acclaimed weapon types around, magical weapons (Levin Swords and Shocksticks mainly) also come with an avo penalty.

It is; you'll just be 6 level-ups above the enemy and not 36 like last game's Galeforks MU.

Bold: Given that by the time you're 4 levels over the enemy, your exp gain for kills gets into "negilgible" territory.... I'd consider that a stretch.

Everything else: Since you only get to attack once, if you miss, you're screwed. Also, 20 avoid is a lot to give up.

Edited February 4, 2016 by Levant Colthearts

[Tooru]

Nohr does have some resistant enemies, like Elite Ninja, Nine-Tailed Fox, Peg and Priest(-ess) promotions.

Dragonstone is basically a poor man's Nosferatu - tanking without the recovery. Dragonstones are particularly ineffective in the midgame period before you can acquire Dragonstone+.

They're okay if the player favours the sandbagging style of play - choosing wait each turn and slowly (not fast like Nowi/Nosferatu cheese in Awakening at all) but surely destroying the enemy teams without any thought or effort.

High defense will never make you slow.

You will be faster because of less healings and more battles.

I tend to use dragonstone a lot in N10, and dragonstone+ in N21.

In N10 I manage to beat all enemies since my second run. Yato is only used for finishing the boss.

In N21 I get all EXP in 11 or 12 turns.

I always only use Yato in N19, however.

[Rapier]

The Dragonstone is a godsend on the first chapter where Takumi is the boss. With the dragonstone and support skill abuse (Demoiselle, iirc), my Kamui was taking 2-3 damage from oni savages, and it didn't even matter if some units doubled since their damage was laughable. It only started losing its practicality around the chapter where we get the Dragonstone+. I think Nohr hard is challenging enough and that rushing in is a bad idea, so I'm not opposed to tanking and going slowly.

[Ownagepuffs]

You can easily beat it in power with a forged steel tbqh. You also don't need to remain in a sword-using class to reap the benefits of its bonuses at any point in the game after they first start being provided. Unless playing for turn counts, nobody forces you to keep on using swords since final battles are perfectly doable without wielding the Yato. No point to restrict your avatar customisation to sword-wielding classes only.

At 11 Mt, it's tied with a steel sword/naginata forge except it gives +5 crit, +10 evade, and has no drawbacks unlike needing +8 spd to double like steel. That's very good. You're not forced to use it but it's better than not being able to use it. Hosh Endgame is simple to clear without Yato I agree (I've done it) (Edit: you can also use Eclipse staff on the boss and cut his HP in half), but Yato makes the final chapter of Nohr much easier since spending an extended period of time in that map on Lunatic suck all sorts of dick with negative chain maids and what not and IK endgame boss is so insanely bulky that it's much nicer to have Yato than it is to not have it since reinforcements like to swarm.

The Dragonstone is a godsend on the first chapter where Takumi is the boss. With the dragonstone and support skill abuse (Demoiselle, iirc), my Kamui was taking 2-3 damage from oni savages, and it didn't even matter if some units doubled since their damage was laughable. It only started losing its practicality around the chapter where we get the Dragonstone+. I think Nohr hard is challenging enough and that rushing in is a bad idea, so I'm not opposed to tanking and going slowly.

Another idea: Ninja Kamui the map away . Enjoy ORKOing everything with 1-2 range. I play Lunatic as a decent pace (it's hard not to when like everyone in Nohr is mounted post promotion lol), it's not necessary to tank and play slower at any point really. I don't give a fuck if you do (it's your game), just letting you know you have options once you start getting used to it. Of course I do think playing somewhat efficiently in Nohr (at least on Lunatic) is something that requires a rather extensive amount of either foresight or experience, since Nohr does a really good job of throwing curveballs at you when you go in blind (I had to restart like 3 times lol).

Edited February 4, 2016 by Ownagepuffs

[HyperBowser]

I remember reading something about using puppet break with the dragonstone+

Doesn't that thing have 75 might when attacking puppets and golems?

Could see dragonstones being pretty nasty in multiplayer as a way to instantly kill copycat users.

[avengerfive]

At 11 Mt, it's tied with a steel sword/naginata forge except it gives +5 crit, +10 evade, and has no drawbacks unlike needing +8 spd to double like steel. That's very good. You're not forced to use it but it's better than not being able to use it. Hosh Endgame is simple to clear without Yato I agree (I've done it) (Edit: you can also use Eclipse staff on the boss and cut his HP in half), but Yato makes the final chapter of Nohr much easier since spending an extended period of time in that map on Lunatic suck all sorts of dick with negative chain maids and what not and IK endgame boss is so insanely bulky that it's much nicer to have Yato than it is to not have it since reinforcements like to swarm.

Of course you let Hana get the kill.

[Tooru]

Another idea: Ninja Kamui the map away . Enjoy ORKOing everything with 1-2 range. I play Lunatic as a decent pace (it's hard not to when like everyone in Nohr is mounted post promotion lol), it's not necessary to tank and play slower at any point really. I don't give a fuck if you do (it's your game), just letting you know you have options once you start getting used to it. Of course I do think playing somewhat efficiently in Nohr (at least on Lunatic) is something that requires a rather extensive amount of either foresight or experience, since Nohr does a really good job of throwing curveballs at you when you go in blind (I had to restart like 3 times lol).

My +Mag Kamui can beat "1 wall + 2 lancer + 4 ninja + 3~4 oni + 1 Hinata + 1 Takumi". Dragonstone is used from turn 1 to turn 10.

How efficient can a ninja be when he has WTD to oni and Takumi?

Edited February 4, 2016 by Tooru

[Shadow Mir]

Then you don't benefit from doubling.

->You cannot double.

->Bad weapon!

You really could've cherry-picked a better example for your argument, to be fair.

High defense will never make you slow.

You will be faster because of less healings and more battles.

I tend to use dragonstone a lot in N10, and dragonstone+ in N21.

In N10 I manage to beat all enemies since my second run. Yato is only used for finishing the boss.

In N21 I get all EXP in 11 or 12 turns.

I always only use Yato in N19, however.

Unless you wind up getting your defense too high, which discourages attacks.

Edited February 4, 2016 by Levant Colthearts

[Tooru]

Unless you wind up getting your defense too high, which discourages attacks.

Then you can use Yato and have your servant or sister nearby, or solo with Yato.

Corrin can make good use of all his weapons and range Def between -1 and +9 or more. It is easy to receive slight but not 0 damage.

[Ownagepuffs]

I remember reading something about using puppet break with the dragonstone+

Doesn't that thing have 75 might when attacking puppets and golems?

Could see dragonstones being pretty nasty in multiplayer as a way to instantly kill copycat users.

..... Okay so I never thought of that that's actually hilarious.

Of course you let Hana get the kill.

Damn skippy.

My +Mag Kamui can beat "1 wall + 2 lancer + 4 ninja + 3~4 oni + 1 Hinata + 1 Takumi". Dragonstone is used from turn 1 to turn 10.

How efficient can a ninja be when he has WTD to oni and Takumi?

Don't really need to beat Takumi. But Oni can be ORKOd after being hit by a ballista. Although tbh a strong enough Kamui makes C10 so much easier regardless of class.

[Tooru]

Don't really need to beat Takumi. But Oni can be ORKOd after being hit by a ballista. Although tbh a strong enough Kamui makes C10 so much easier regardless of class.

So you cannot beat all enemies when you are using a ninja Corrin, I see.

Tactics around dragonstone are supposed to be slow.

Tactics around ninja beat less enemies with the same turn costing, but they are called fast.

Edited February 5, 2016 by Tooru

[Espinosa]

C10 must be pretty hard for players who aren't using a reclassed (if any) Jakob. Then again, I always minimise Camilla's use on that map so relying on Camilla significantly more could help endure the last intensive 3 or so turns of the map where the opposition just breaks in violently.

I haven't tried Dragonstone MU as an option to last a few turns on that map because you still wouldn't try to solo that map because of the lance fighters / ninja (though weakening these with bow/magic ballistae can allow you to kill them on enemy phase without getting the Defence Seal curse for many turns to stay).

[CocoaGalaxy]

Dragonstone + Pros and Cons:

Pros:

25 Might, the highest might on a usable weapon without +5, 6 or 7 forges (and even then it's pretty high).

+9 Def and +7 Res. Extremely useful for bulky, defencive builds and even offencive builds can benefit from the bonuses at times.

Magic weapon. Defence-heavy units are more common than Resistance-heavy units.

Decent hit rate (75).

+10 Critical Evade. While not overwhelmingly useful, it can still come in handy at times.

Cons:

As far as I know, they can't be forged. This is fairly understandable, since a +7 Dragonstone + would be completely broken (36 Might, 85 Hit, 15 Crit).

Unable to double attack as well as -4 speed. Unless you have Defencive Formation, you'll be getting doubled by just about everything.

-5 Skill, so skills won't be activating as frequently.

Hit rate isn't awful, but it could be better

-10 Avoid, which can bite you in the arse on occasion.

No ranged attack.

EDIT: I forgot, it also reduces Magic and Skill by 2 every time you attack with it. Stats recover by 1 each turn, but it can really stack up on the enemies turn. Only applies if Avatar is the lead unit and the attack hits.

RE getting doubled, most units won't have an issue with that, save for some really fast enemies.

[Ownagepuffs]

So you cannot beat all enemies when you are using a ninja Corrin, I see.

Tactics around dragonstone are supposed to be slow.

Tactics around ninja beat less enemies with the same turn costing, but they are called fast.

Is this some sort of passive aggressive insult? 11-12 turns in C21 is kinda slow.

C10 must be pretty hard for players who aren't using a reclassed (if any) Jakob. Then again, I always minimise Camilla's use on that map so relying on Camilla significantly more could help endure the last intensive 3 or so turns of the map where the opposition just breaks in violently.

I haven't tried Dragonstone MU as an option to last a few turns on that map because you still wouldn't try to solo that map because of the lance fighters / ninja (though weakening these with bow/magic ballistae can allow you to kill them on enemy phase without getting the Defence Seal curse for many turns to stay).

Any particular reason you don't spam Camilla at everything in C10? Personal challenge?

Edited February 5, 2016 by Ownagepuffs

[Mujuju]

Is this some sort of passive aggressive insult? 11-12 turns in C21 is kinda slow.

Any particular reason you don't spam Camilla at everything in C10? Personal challenge?

I don't play for LTC, but when the overleveled royals/Corrinsexuals earn 1 exp during the join chapter(s), I see it as wasted experience that some other units could badly use.

For early ninja reclassing how well does he do losing his sword access, as well as the fair share of axe/bow users in the early chapters?

[Espinosa]

Is this some sort of passive aggressive insult? 11-12 turns in C21 is kinda slow.

Any particular reason you don't spam Camilla at everything in C10? Personal challenge?

Because Marcus hogs exp lmao.

It's a defend map and one I'm able to complete reliably and somewhat comfortably without Camilla as long as I have Paladin/GK Jakob and whatever!MU.

[Tooru]

Is this some sort of passive aggressive insult? 11-12 turns in C21 is kinda slow.

Any particular reason you don't spam Camilla at everything in C10? Personal challenge?

If you did beat all enemies in N10, why not just tell us?

It was you who said dragonstone is slow and suggested to use ninja in N10.

It is your responsibility to tell us how fast ninja can be, rather than how easy it is.

So how many turns you need to get all EXP in C21?

Please do not start the whole "it is not necessary" "it does not really need" "It is too hard for me but I don't want to say 'hard' or 'difficult'" things again.

How many turns you need to do the unnecessary thing to show your speed of beating enemies?

Edited February 5, 2016 by Tooru