Best magic based class

[Mango Giamatti]

You could get the DLC Pack which comes out the 19th(same as the game) and you could become a witch so you get warp and shadowgift

Witch isn't actually released until April 14th. The DLC Pack doesn't give you all the DLC at once. And op DLC class is op.

[Shadow Mir]

You could get the DLC Pack which comes out the 19th(same as the game) and you could become a witch so you get warp and shadowgift

Aside from what Mango said, Shadowgift's a waste of a skill slot imo.

[gayserbeam]

DM is impossible to get in Hoshido, so you should make it MagiCorrin's Talent in Birthright. Diviner is impossible to get in Nohr, so you should make it MagiCorrin's Talent in Conquest. It's that simple - the two classes perform very similarly while unpremomted and the promotion doesn't matter because you can pair up with Odin/Nyx or Hayato/Orochi to get the other class tree before you even reach a point where the promotion is a concern.

For Male Corrin in Revelation, you should probably choose Dark Mage just because Odin and Leo join very late and Hayato joins fairly early on.

[Mango Giamatti]

DM is impossible to get in Hoshido, so you should make it MagiCorrin's Talent in Birthright. Diviner is impossible to get in Nohr, so you should make it MagiCorrin's Talent in Conquest. It's that simple - the two classes perform very similarly while unpremomted and the promotion doesn't matter because you can pair up with Odin/Nyx or Hayato/Orochi to get the other class tree before you even reach a point where the promotion is a concern.

For Male Corrin in Revelation, you should probably choose Dark Mage just because Odin and Leo join very late and Hayato joins fairly early on.

It's not that simple. You don't need access to every class on every route, and taking the time to raise Corrin's support rank with a character you wouldn't normally use is cumbersome. If the two classes really do perform similarly unpromoted (which I don't agree with entirely, for the speed difference might be significant), then there's no reason to pick Diviner at all since Dark Knight is the superior promoted class. It's much more efficient to promote into Dark Knight than it is to Friendship Seal into it.

[gayserbeam]

It's not that simple. You don't need access to every class on every route, and taking the time to raise Corrin's support rank with a character you wouldn't normally use is cumbersome. If the two classes really do perform similarly unpromoted (which I don't agree with entirely, for the speed difference might be significant), then there's no reason to pick Diviner at all since Dark Knight is the superior promoted class. It's much more efficient to promote into Dark Knight than it is to Friendship Seal into it.

When in pair-up, you'll naturally want to pair up with someone who boosts magic, so you'll likely be pairing up with Odin or Nyx regardless. Building an A rank with a unit who joins early on is not difficult at all and there isn't anything cumbersome about pairing a mage with your mage, especially if that mage gives +3 MAG and +3 SPD like Orochi amd Hayato do.

This is also the only situation where you'll have both S-Rank tomes and Tomefaire (although the former is admittedly underwhelming considering you don't even get an S-Rank tome in every route and weapon EXP grows incredibly slowly in Fates) and gives Corrin and their spouse useful (but otherwise unobtainable in that route) skills like Rend Heaven and Lifetaker. Also note the Dark Mage's terrible skill stat, which has synergy with Diviner's Flamboyance.

The +3 SPD isn't enough to truly make a difference. As others have mentioned, a Dark Mage with a Speed Tonic has the same SPD as a Nohr Prince(ss). While a Diviner with a Speed Tonic is indeed even faster, the only enemies that are too fast to double generally either have massive RES and shouldn't be near Corrin anyway (Sky Knights, Outlaws, Ninja), or can't counterattack a mage (Samurai) and therefore the boost is more or less superfluous.

As far as "efficiency" is concerned, you forfeit it as soon as you start a playthrough as a magic-based Corrin. The 2000 G you spend on a Friendship Seal is less of a loss than reclassing one of your most valuable units into a class with 5 less DEF and 4 less HP that is stuck using a 3-might weapon that can't activate Dragon Fang for as much as two or three chapters and can't wield their powerful personal weapon that boosts stats which they'll never use.

Edited February 16, 2016 by gayserbeam

[Shadow Mir]

When in pair-up, you'll naturally want to pair up with someone who boosts magic, so you'll likely be pairing up with Odin or Nyx regardless. Building an A rank with a unit who joins early on is not difficult at all and there isn't anything cumbersome about pairing a mage with your mage, especially if that mage gives +3 MAG and +3 SPD like Orochi amd Hayato do.

This is also the only situation where you'll have both S-Rank tomes and Tomefaire (although the former is admittedly underwhelming considering you don't even get an S-Rank tome in every route and weapon EXP grows incredibly slowly in Fates) and gives Corrin and their spouse useful (but otherwise unobtainable in that route) skills like Rend Heaven and Lifetaker. Also note the Dark Mage's terrible skill stat, which has synergy with Diviner's Flamboyance.

The +3 SPD isn't enough to truly make a difference. As others have mentioned, a Dark Mage with a Speed Tonic has the same SPD as a Nohr Prince(ss). While a Diviner with a Speed Tonic is indeed even faster, the only enemies that are too fast to double generally either have massive RES and shouldn't be near Corrin anyway (Sky Knights, Outlaws, Ninja), or can't counterattack a mage (Samurai) and therefore the boost is more or less superfluous.

A +MAG Corrin would have 11.4 speed at 10/0 on average (assuming the flaw doesn't drop speed growth). Reclassing to Dark Mage drops this to 9.4. That could easily miss doubles Corrin could've gotten otherwise (though I don't have stats, so I can't be sure).

EDIT: Also, I fail to see the significance of Flamboyance, because... well, it's just underwhelming for a level 15 skill.

Edited February 16, 2016 by Levant Colthearts

[Mango Giamatti]

When in pair-up, you'll naturally want to pair up with someone who boosts magic, so you'll likely be pairing up with Odin or Nyx regardless. Building an A rank with a unit who joins early on is not difficult at all and there isn't anything cumbersome about pairing a mage with your mage, especially if that mage gives +3 MAG and +3 SPD like Orochi amd Hayato do.

But the first servant boosts magic and speed too, gives bonuses from their personal skills, and have a fast support with Corrin. Though, you could say that they might want to be doing other things than supporting Corrin.

This is also the only situation where you'll have both S-Rank tomes and Tomefaire (although the former is admittedly underwhelming considering you don't even get an S-Rank tome in every route and weapon EXP grows incredibly slowly in Fates) and gives Corrin and their spouse useful (but otherwise unobtainable in that route) skills like Rend Heaven and Lifetaker. Also note the Dark Mage's terrible skill stat, which has synergy with Diviner's Flamboyance.

S-Rank + Tomefaire is superfluous. Corrin probably won't be hitting S rank anyway, and both come late in the game. Rend Heaven isn't that useful on a magical unit since most enemies have terrible magic, but a physical spouse might appreciate it. Dark Mage has a poor skill stat, but a skill learned as a level 15 promoted unit won't fix that. Dark Knight, however, has a decent base skill of 6 (the same as Onmyoji) and will at least always have good hit at one range thanks to Heartseeker. Flamboyance also gives 30 hit to your enemy, which isn't cool.

The +3 SPD isn't enough to truly make a difference. As others have mentioned, a Dark Mage with a Speed Tonic has the same SPD as a Nohr Prince(ss). While a Diviner with a Speed Tonic is indeed even faster, the only enemies that are too fast to double generally either have massive RES and shouldn't be near Corrin anyway (Sky Knights, Outlaws, Ninja), or can't counterattack a mage (Samurai) and therefore the boost is more or less superfluous.

I was the one who brought up the tonics earlier in this thread lol. If they are more or less the same in their base class, then we should judge them based on their promoted classes, which give the advantage to Dark Knight for it's more versatile.

As far as "efficiency" is concerned, you forfeit it as soon as you start a playthrough as a magic-based Corrin. The 2000 G you spend on a Friendship Seal is less of a loss than reclassing one of your most valuable units into a class with 5 less DEF and 4 less HP that is stuck using a 3-might weapon that can't activate Dragon Fang for as much as two or three chapters and can't wield their powerful personal weapon that boosts stats which they'll never use.

I wasn't trying to claim that this is an efficient build, but merely being able to promote into Dark Knight is an easier process than sealing into it. I don't put much value in Diviner's skills. Magic+2 can be cool, but DM gets Malefic Aura, and +Mag Corrin has good magic anyway. As mentioned earlier, Rend Heaven doesn't help a magical unit much (but it can help when using Yato). Tomefaire is nice damage, but comes late. I'm not sure if it's worth it to pick Diviner as your secondary, A support a Dark Mage, reclass into Dark Knight, reclass into Onmyoji, and reclass back into Dark Knight (for lategame Yato) just for some extra damage at the end of the game. Picking Dark Mage as your subclass is a much simpler option.

Replies in bold.

A +MAG Corrin would have 11.4 speed at 10/0 on average (assuming the flaw doesn't drop speed growth). Reclassing to Dark Mage drops this to 9.4. That could easily miss doubles Corrin could've gotten otherwise (though I don't have stats, so I can't be sure).

EDIT: Also, I fail to see the significance of Flamboyance, because... well, it's just underwhelming for a level 15 skill.

...and with a tonic it's back up to 11.4, and a plus speed pair up can take it to 14.4. Bringing up average stats doesn't accomplish much without corresponding enemy stats.

Edited February 16, 2016 by Mango Giamatti

[Shadow Mir]

...and with a tonic it's back up to 11.4, and a plus speed pair up can take it to 14.4. Bringing up average stats doesn't accomplish much without corresponding enemy stats.

...So now I have to waste another unit's turn just to match Diviner's speed with a tonic alone. Good going. Your second sentence implies that you agree with me to some extent, though - all this is just theorycraft, which doesn't mean much without stats to compare to. Also, I don't put much stock in Dark Mage's skills.

Edited February 16, 2016 by Levant Colthearts

[astrophys]

Dark Mage's Heartseeker (Bind) is worth -20 enemy avoid when fighting them at 1 range. Perhaps a bit underused when using tomes (as you'll fight at 1 range most of the time, except against opponents like archers or Spear/Tohamhawk users who have switched to an exclusively 2 range weapon, rather than a 1-2 range weapon). But Heartseeker could be perhaps of greater use within the Dark Knight promotion… as when such a hybrid uses swords and tomes, that -20 enemy avoid (in practice, similar in effect to +20 hit) whenever using one of your 1-range swords (most of them).

The funny thing is that simply getting Heartseeker does more to improve your accuracy at 1-range than the average skill asset would over the course of the entire game…. granted, skill also helps criticals and also helps at 2 range, and it also helps with skill activations, but when it comes to something like getting Yato to connect with the enemy its Heartseeker that fills that niche more powerfully (although the effects can stack).

Your average SKL asset gives +3 skill in base (guaranteed) and +25% growth rates (on average), so by 20/20 you tend to have gained 3+9.5=12.5 skill, which increases hit rates by 18.75.

Heartseeker drops enemy Avoids by 20. Just one measly level 1 skill gives your Yato a better accuracy boost than you would have gathered over the entire game as a +SKL type.

As for Devlish Wind (or is it Malefic Aura now as a localization… I've been seeing that name tossed around here)…. its +2 damage taken to enemies in a radius of 2… largely similar to MAG +2, but it can also benefit your other allies if they target said enemy.

Those seem pretty good for non-promoted skills.

[Shadow Mir]

Dark Mage's Heartseeker (Bind) is worth -20 enemy avoid when fighting them at 1 range. Perhaps a bit underused when using tomes (as you'll fight at 1 range most of the time, except against opponents like archers or Spear/Tohamhawk users who have switched to an exclusively 2 range weapon, rather than a 1-2 range weapon). But Heartseeker could be perhaps of greater use within the Dark Knight promotion… as when such a hybrid uses swords and tomes, that -20 enemy avoid (in practice, similar in effect to +20 hit) whenever using one of your 1-range swords (most of them).

The funny thing is that simply getting Heartseeker does more to improve your accuracy at 1-range than the average skill asset would over the course of the entire game…. granted, skill also helps criticals and also helps at 2 range, and it also helps with skill activations, but when it comes to something like getting Yato to connect with the enemy its Heartseeker that fills that niche more powerfully (although the effects can stack).

Your average SKL asset gives +3 skill in base (guaranteed) and +25% growth rates (on average), so by 20/20 you tend to have gained 3+9.5=12.5 skill, which increases hit rates by 18.75.

Heartseeker drops enemy Avoids by 20. Just one measly level 1 skill gives your Yato a better accuracy boost than you would have gathered over the entire game as a +SKL type.

As for Devlish Wind (or is it Malefic Aura now as a localization… I've been seeing that name tossed around here)…. its +2 damage taken to enemies in a radius of 2… largely similar to MAG +2, but it can also benefit your other allies if they target said enemy.

Those seem pretty good for non-promoted skills.

Yeah, well, I wouldn't see Heartseeker as very useful unless most of your fighting was at 1 range, which, given that it comes on a mage class, it won't be short of those specific instances you mentioned (I'd go so far as to say to get any real use out of it, you'd have to reclass out of Dark Mage after getting it). And Malefic Aura only works for magic attacks.

Edited February 16, 2016 by Levant Colthearts

[astrophys]

I would see Heartseeker being useful in PROMOTING from Dark Mage into Dark Knight. Use your sword at range for extra-accurate skills (particularly if you're Corrin and you're using Yato), use your magic when your hit rate will still be good or to avoid a counterattack. Also, if an enemy runs up to your Dark Mage on the enemy phase with a melee range attack, wouldn't Heartseeker trigger? "When fighting adjacent to an enemy, enemy’s Avoid -20". Unless the description is wrong and you have to initiate the battle yourself, it should work in both phases….

Dark Knight, with class bases of 8 DEF and 6 RES (and 15% DEF growth and 5% Res growth) [sorcerers have 5 DEF, 8 RES, 5% Def, and 15% Res), should be somewhat more resistant to physical attacks than your average mage. Oh, and they also have 15% HP growth next to the Sorcerer's 0%…. And 19 base HP instead of 17.

So Dark Knight having a more meaningful enemy phase seems a distinct possibility….

[gayserbeam]

Replies in bold.

...and with a tonic it's back up to 11.4, and a plus speed pair up can take it to 14.4. Bringing up average stats doesn't accomplish much without corresponding enemy stats.

What I was getting at was this:

1) the two classes function almost identically while unpremoted, with a very slight advantage to Diviner

2) you can obtain the other class very early from a unit who is pretty much your ideal pair-up

3) It's not worth it to waste your Talent on a class that you can already obtain before you promote

In my first run of Conquest, going in blind, I made my talent Knight because I wanted to be a General. Lo and behold, by chapter 12 I already had an A-Rank with Effie and hadn't even promoted yet. It's not a resource hog or an inconvenience to use a Seal, either.

As for promoted classes, Dark Knight lets you use Yato and take better advantage of Corrin's bulk. It's basically a chunky Nohr Noble with better MOV and less SPD. It's my choice of the four. Onmyoji and Sorcerer are too frail, and Basara, when compared to Dark Knight, gives you a less useful E-Rank in Lances and less MOV.

Edited February 16, 2016 by gayserbeam

[Tooru]

"When fighting adjacent to an enemy, enemy’s Avoid -20". Unless the description is wrong and you have to initiate the battle yourself, it should work in both phases….

It works in both phase.

But the description is still wrong: you don't have to fight.

When other units fight an enemy who is adjacent to you, there is still the "Avoid -20" effect.

[astrophys]

Oh, really? So its more like the old Hex effect that I thought?

Actually, now that would make it simply a stronger Hex (comparing against Awakening), but weaker than the combination of Hex + Anathema…. although it only needs one slot.

[Shadow Mir]

I would see Heartseeker being useful in PROMOTING from Dark Mage into Dark Knight. Use your sword at range for extra-accurate skills (particularly if you're Corrin and you're using Yato), use your magic when your hit rate will still be good or to avoid a counterattack. Also, if an enemy runs up to your Dark Mage on the enemy phase with a melee range attack, wouldn't Heartseeker trigger? "When fighting adjacent to an enemy, enemy’s Avoid -20". Unless the description is wrong and you have to initiate the battle yourself, it should work in both phases….

Dark Knight, with class bases of 8 DEF and 6 RES (and 15% DEF growth and 5% Res growth) [sorcerers have 5 DEF, 8 RES, 5% Def, and 15% Res), should be somewhat more resistant to physical attacks than your average mage. Oh, and they also have 15% HP growth next to the Sorcerer's 0%…. And 19 base HP instead of 17.

So Dark Knight having a more meaningful enemy phase seems a distinct possibility….

That just makes it sound even more situational than I already think it is... It's just not very useful sorry to say.

[Moblin Major General]

What about Malig Knight as a Magic class? I don't know about using Camilla because of aesthetics, but I think either Malig Knight or Dark Falcon are probably best for conquest, even though Malig Knight only goes to B Tomes, although it is certainly better than Flying BerserkerGriffon Rider in Awakening.

[Tooru]

For Camilla, you are not going to use tomes when Hand Axe deals more damage than Thunder*2.

Elise has better growth as Malig Knight and gets good skills. You may want to go back Strategist as her final class for higher caps.

Saizo's personal skill + Deadly Breath + Snake Venom is an interesting combo, but it is more about skills than "magic class".

Edited February 16, 2016 by Tooru

[Eriotto]

For Camilla, you are not going to use tomes when Hand Axe deals more damage than Thunder*2.

Elise has better growth as Malig Knight and gets good skills. You may want to go back Strategist as her final class for higher caps.

Saizo's personal skill + Deadly Breath + Snake Venom is an interesting combo, but it is more about skills than "magic class".

Elise in Malig is intresting Magic user anyway. Well if you're about to use her as combat unit mostly Rev is better, if not then Strategist for sure. :P

[Aestury]

Does Niles give good Pair-up bonuses if he were to be paired up with, Mag+ Dark Knight Corrin or Onmyoji Corrin? I understand that a pair-up with a magic unit like Nyx or Odin is preffered but would it still be viable? Adventurer should give a bonus to magic and speed last time I checked so I imagine it would help the Dark Knight case greatly right?

[Elif]

Does Niles give good Pair-up bonuses if he were to be paired up with, Mag+ Dark Knight Corrin or Onmyoji Corrin? I understand that a pair-up with a magic unit like Nyx or Odin is preffered but would it still be viable? Adventurer should give a bonus to magic and speed last time I checked so I imagine it would help the Dark Knight case greatly right?

Assuming S-Rank, Niles @ Adventurer would give +1 Mag, +6 Spd, +4 Res, and +1 Mov. Adventurer does not give Magic boost, it's Niles who does. The +6 Spd boost is definitely helpful for Dark Knights. If you don't mind the lack of Magic boost from him, then it's very much viable, especially with +Mag Corrin, who would already have 35 Mag. Odin/Nyx @ Sorcerer would indeed give better Magic boost, but only Nyx gives a +2 Spd boost which is... decent for Dark Knight. If anything, Dark Falcon gives best Mag/Spd boost combo imo. If you do Niles @ Dark Falcon, you're looking at +4 Mag, +5 Spd, +2 Res, and +1 Mov. Though idk how viable Niles would be in that class overall...