Race in Europe, or, Americans should stop applying American realities to everywhere else

[blah the Prussian]

So as you would know if you read my location (which I recommend, it's a fascinating read) I have been living in Europe, specifically Prague, for the past few years (I am American, though I prefer "rightful subject of Her Majesty"). During that time, I learned a lot about European history, as well as what Europe today is like. I also noticed that, on this site and others, Americans and to a lesser extent Canadians and ANZACS, have been applying the theory of White Privilege to Europe. Now, to get this out of the way: White Privilege is very much something that exists in America. However, it is not present in Europe or anywhere else in the non-Anglo world. The thing is, in America, there is a general White culture that exists; that has been melded as a result of the immigration from Europe. However, in Europe, whiteness has very little meaning, because, and this should be a no brainer, a Pole is different from a Spaniard. This effectively means that there can be no white people in Europe, because there is no unified White identity. In the UK, for example, the far right party, UKIP, has a huge hateboner against immigrants of all kinds. Now, when you think immigrant, you probably picture a bunch of Syrians, Iraqis, and Libyans. However, that is only half of the story. There are Polish, Romanian, Spanish, and other European ethnicities who are immigrants within the UK, Germany, and other more prosperous EU countries, and they get the same shit that Arabs do. I would also argue that the bigotry in Europe is less about race and more about religion. For example, Hungarian PM Viktor Orban declared that he would allow all Christian refugees into Hungary, but no Muslims. The thing is, though, the bulk of the Christian refugees are just as Arab as the Muslims. What makes me so mad about this is that it's another case of people making assumptions when they have no understanding of the actual situation. If Americans would actually bother to see what is going on, rather than just seeing White people vs Brown people, you would not be hearing about White privilege in Europe.

[Dwlr]

Oh please, there is a long history of prosecution of different groups in Europe as well as America or pretty much anywhere. Saying it's only an ethnicity issue is just a cop out. I suppose the Nazis didn't persecute the Jewish and Blacks? But America is some sort of exceptional problem is it? I suppose the British don't hate the French either? There is a long history of groups leaving Europe which you make out to be some melting pot paradise due to prosecution to come to America, if America is so terrible and Europe is so so tolerant then that wouldn't be the case at all now would it? Aside from that the minorities tend to have more privilege than the white majority, between various special interests that work in favor of a minority. If you think racism is solely a white thing you're crazy as well. Racism exists, there is no racism free promised land and both sides are at fault, this thread is little more than anti-American propaganda I'd say, which ironically makes you guilty of the very same thing you're supposedly speaking out against, prejudice of a certain group so bully for you mate.

Edited February 18, 2016 by Dwlr

[Etrurian emperor]

So you live in Prague huh? As a frequent visitor I can't say I'm not envious of that. There's hardly a better city then one who has both pretty buildings...and beer!

I do notice that European race matters are sometimes judged by American standards and examples but I find that its also a part of our own population that does that. In the Netherlands we got the Black Pete discussion about the black sidekick of ''Dutch Santa''. I'm neutral on that one but I do find myself irked that the opponents of Black Pete often use an American context in their arguments. Things like minstrel shows which was almost exclusively American.

I do agree that those we make immigration a race thing have to consider we also have Polish and other eastern European ones and for what its worth I rarely find people excusing them because they aren't brown. They have not as bad a reputation but not a remotely good one either.

[blah the Prussian]

So you live in Prague huh? As a frequent visitor I can't say I'm not envious of that. There's hardly a better city then one who has both pretty buildings...and beer!

I do notice that European race matters are sometimes judged by American standards and examples but I find that its also a part of our own population that does that. In the Netherlands we got the Black Pete discussion about the black sidekick of ''Dutch Santa''. I'm neutral on that one but I do find myself irked that the opponents of Black Pete often use an American context in their arguments. Things like minstrel shows which was almost exclusively American.

I do agree that those we make immigration a race thing have to consider we also have Polish and other eastern European ones and for what its worth I rarely find people excusing them because they aren't brown. They have not as bad a reputation but not a remotely good one either.

Yeah, Prague is a lovely city. Sinderklasse is a tad bit more complex, though, since his elves are based on Moors, who were the victims of the usual anti-Islamic propaganda that the Vatican was spewing out, and were slaves; the Dutch were big practitioners of slavery. Of course, the Dutch were doing slavery before it became so racially charged, so it isn't really the same. I do find it racist, personally.

Oh please, there is a long history of prosecution of different groups in Europe as well as America or pretty much anywhere. Saying it's only an ethnicity issue is just a cop out. I suppose the Nazis didn't persecute the Jewish and Blacks? But America is some sort of exceptional problem is it? I suppose the British don't hate the French either? There is a long history of groups leaving Europe which you make out to be some melting pot paradise due to prosecution to come to America, if America is so terrible and Europe is so so tolerant then that wouldn't be the case at all now would it? Aside from that the minorities tend to have more privilege than the white majority, between various special interests that work in favor of a minority. If you think racism is solely a white thing you're crazy as well. Racism exists, there is no racism free promised land and both sides are at fault, this thread is little more than anti-American propaganda I'd say, which ironically makes you guilty of the very same thing you're supposedly speaking out against, prejudice of a certain group so bully for you mate.

Did you even read my post, madame? I never said Europe was free of prejudice, but it is hatred of an ethnic manner, not of a racial manner. Also, no, I do not believe that racism against the French is a large problem in Britain. It stopped being a big thing after the Entente Cordial in 1904. I never said that there is no prejudice in Europe, just that the prejudice against Muslims is not racially based, and that White privilege does not exist in Europe. The groups that left Europe, however, did not leave it because of racial oppression, but because of ethnic oppression. The Nazis, too, were not white supremacist, but rather Germanic supremacist. Neo Nazis are different from original Nazis in that way. The Nazis also didn't get ahold of very many Africans to kill; the Rhineland Bastards were IIRC the only ones. Finally, I at no point said that there is a racism free place. Please read what I actually said before you comment in the future.

[Dwlr]

I read what you wrote and all it is is singling out one type of prejudice suggesting it's worse than any other type. As I said it's little more than anti-American propaganda.

[Crysta]

So... in other words, you guys simply haven't streamlined 'whiteness' as much as we have because we eventually got lazy and it actually still matters where the pale people come from? Our immigrant hateboners used to extend to immigrants of all sorts, too.

EDIT: I suspect there's still a pecking order/hierarchy even then (pale > brown still), but what do I know? I don't actually live there.

Edited February 18, 2016 by Crysta

[Integrity]

this took about two posts before i saw it not going anywhere good and tbh, i'm just going to shut it down since op is basically just trying to pick a fight rather than discuss something