Anybody feel like Fates is racist?

[Dwlr]

Nohr is basically Europe and Hoshido is more or less Japan right? Well Nohr has serial killers, warmongers, and in general the people with the character flaws and the main villain is Nohrian, meanwhile Hoshido is portrayed as once peace loving nation that the Nohrians ruined. I mean I don't care or anything, but I do feel it has at least some racial connotations against Westerners, anybody else feel that way? Additionally the classes that one might deem 'evil' or 'dark' or what have you all pretty much belong to Nohr as well. Why are all Butlers suddenly Ninja Assassins just to fill class void? Is it because it's always the butler who done it? The butlers seem more like castle stewards than butlers to me as well, but that's neither here nor there.

Not really part of this, but if they're going to go with French names for some skills, and give us werewolves which are germanic in origin they could have at least called them Blutbaden.

Edited February 24, 2016 by Dwlr

[Sunwoo]

Oh, please.

If you think Japan vs. West is bad, then I don't know what you'll even think about Japan vs. the rest of the East.

Whether or not there's racism in Fates (I'm leaning towards "not", btw), I've seen and heard of Japan doing far worse to its fellow eastern neighbors … especially Korea and China.

[Dwlr]

Oh, please.

If you think Japan vs. West is bad, then I don't know what you'll even think about Japan vs. the rest of the East.

Whether or not there's racism in Fates (I'm leaning towards "not", btw), I've seen and heard of Japan doing far worse to its fellow eastern neighbors … especially Korea and China.

It is East versus West, but that's not the issue, the issue is that they paint the Eastern side in a much better light than the 'evil warmongering" Westerners, that's all. I never said I thought it was 'bad' either so no need to put words in my mouth in that regards, I'm merely saying I feel like there is anti-Westerner sentiment in the portrayals of the two sides.

[Ebony]

This isn't a loaded question.

If you think Japan vs. West is bad, then I don't know what you'll even think about Japan vs. the rest of the East.

Whether or not there's racism in Fates (I'm leaning towards "not", btw), I've seen and heard of Japan doing far worse to its fellow eastern neighbors … especially Korea and China.

Basically this.

they don't teach about it in schools is what i've heard... or at least don't teach about some of the bad stuff they did during ww2

[Thor Odinson]

It's not like American media don't portray Asians as racial stereotypes all the time and tap into yellow peril or anything. Oh wait.

Can't take you crying about a country that, while most of us, myself included, do think need more grey-grey portrayal, ultimately do have these less-than-wholesome characters still mostly portrayed in humanizing ways.

Plus Fire Emblem has a long history of representing mostly European-based nations in positive lights, so forgive me if I can't take one European country being portrayed negatively as "racism" seriously.

[Vyse]

I mean I don't care or anything, but I do feel it has at least some racial connotations against Westerners, anybody else feel that way?

I'm fairly certain that that wasn't their intention. Interpret it however you want to though, regardless of how silly the interpretation is.

[saisymbolic]

Please don't do this.

[twice]

I don't think this is the case at all.

[spoiler=Also, ]While one of the main villains is Garon which is Nohrian.. The true one is neither from Nohr nor Hoshido.

[BruceLee]

What a stupid thread.

[SaltyPearl]

I don't get how ppl think Fe Fates is racist, but whatever.

[Ansem]

ur gonna get it OP

[kantoorfarina]

What a stupid thread.

Pretty much sums it up.

Sure it gives a bit of favoritism to the japan-inspired side, but calling it racism is a stupid over exaggeration. Also I don't see how anyone could interpret butlers as evil.

Edited February 24, 2016 by kantoorfarina

[Shin]

To be honest, Nohr seems to be the designated "evil kingdom". The whole living in a wasteland, wearing all black and being lead by what seems to be Ganondorf. It's more that they're trying to make them seem rather dark than necessarily trying to portray Europe in a bad light.

In short: Look really hard and you can see anything!

[Sunwoo]

It's not like American media don't portray Asians as racial stereotypes all the time and tap into yellow peril or anything. Oh wait.

Can't take you crying about a country that, while most of us, myself included, do think need more grey-grey portrayal, ultimately do have these less-than-wholesome characters still mostly portrayed in humanizing ways.

Plus Fire Emblem has a long history of representing mostly European-based nations in positive lights, so forgive me if I can't take one European country being portrayed negatively as "racism" seriously.

Lumi hit the nail on the head perfectly. American media doesn't do a very good job portraying other nationalities or ethnicities all that well (or sometimes at all), but I don't think it's out of ill-intent. Likewise, whether Fates is "racist" or not I don't think that is the intent. I'm not going to cry foul on only one but not the other, because it's basically the same problem.

[Nukemind]

Nope. At first I was like "Oh Japan is good and Europe is bad. OKAY. This could be bad."

But they don't use any generic stereotypes. To me, it's not different than an American game. Having some Chinese and/or Russian leader being a mustache twirling villain. At least Japan show's that there are alot of good people in Nohr besides the few high ups.

[Katryn]

Nope, I don't think it's racist at all.

The real question is: If you actually believe that, how are you going to respond? Will you skip this game to preserve your own sense of morality? Or are you just trying to stir up drama because lol internet?

[CaitlynMellark]

I don't think this is the case at all.

[spoiler=Also, ]While one of the main villains is Garon which is Nohrian.. The true one is neither from Nohr nor Hoshido.

Aliens have decided to fight us!

But yes, this is a pretty dumb thread

[Seanp12]

There's always going to be something you can find on any story with a man v. man conflict that could be construed as discriminatory. Because a lot of conflict comes from the contrast, and contrast is a useful tool to make the two side more distinct, or even to highlight ways in which they are similar. That doesn't make it racist (or nationalistic is probably more accurate in this case). Even if something might be accidentally perceived as racist, that doesn't automatically mean there was racist intent.

[Dwlr]

To be honest, Nohr seems to be the designated "evil kingdom". The whole living in a wasteland, wearing all black and being lead by what seems to be Ganondorf. It's more that they're trying to make them seem rather dark than necessarily trying to portray Europe in a bad light.

In short: Look really hard and you can see anything!

It was mentioned here (on Serenes) that Jynx was racist, surely they didn't mean for a children's character to be racist and yet there it is, people took it that way and were offended by it. Something doesn't have to be intentional to be racist and a magical land where the sun doesn't shine is called London so they actually nailed that part without any bias and while Nohr is the designated evil kingdom they chose to give it very few redeeming qualities despite being able to play as Nohr when they could have centered it around a single tyrant in Nohr rather than making it entirely 'evil' throughout the kingdom. (which is a credit to the poor writing more than anything, but still.)

Lumi hit the nail on the head perfectly. American media doesn't do a very good job portraying other nationalities or ethnicities all that well (or sometimes at all), but I don't think it's out of ill-intent. Likewise, whether Fates is "racist" or not I don't think that is the intent. I'm not going to cry foul on only one but not the other, because it's basically the same problem.

I don't know why y'all are trying to say I'm saying it was intentional, not once did I say it was nor am I exactly "crying foul" which would imply it matters at all, just saying it comes across that way.

The real question is: If you actually believe that, how are you going to respond? Will you skip this game to preserve your own sense of morality? Or are you just trying to stir up drama because lol internet?

The ones stirring up drama are the ones that are overreacting to it not me by simply posing the question. You don't feel that way, the answer is no, move on, no drama, when people start acting as if I'm screaming bloody murder or trying to 'instigate' something they are the ones causing the drama. Like now you posing hypothetical instigating questions like that is the one causing "internet drama".

[Alertcircuit]

Basically this.

they don't teach about it in schools is what i've heard... or at least don't teach about some of the bad stuff they did during ww2

If we're talking about Nanking, it was taught in my school. I remember our class being pretty horrified. I don't think we were tested on it though.

While Hoshido is Japan and Nohr is Europe, I don't really think it was racially motivated.

[Nukemind]

I will admit Racism in Japan is historical, bit it is in every country. Japan vs the West is actually fairly new. From the Meiji Restoration to the time of WW2 (and even after- that is the Japanese Economic Miracle) they sought to emulate and learn from the west. In reality, if they have any racism, it's vs their neighbors. China, Korea, and admitedly Russia.

Japan has an interesting history. Less than 30 years after Westernising, they fought Russia. And beat them. Some "Small Backward Island Nation" which had been fighting with bows less than a generation previously sunk the Russian Fleets, crushed their armies, and sent them home with their tail between their legs. Not long before that, they put the smack down on China, crushing their much larger neighbors fleet and armies.

After these two incidents, and a peaceful annexation (though not well liked) of Korea, the idea of a "Master Yamato Race" DID develop. The Second Sino-Japanese war was fought concurrent to WW2 (one of the reasons they fought us is we turned off the oil and scrap tap which they needed for that war), and it was much more racial in scope than the previous ones. However, in the end, Japan was defeated, Korea and Manchuria freed, Formosa released, and more.

After all this, whilst the "older" generation continued in some racism, much like in the states, the younger generations rejected it. Sadly, I have never been there but I AM a history major with Japan and Germany, and the 1850-1950 time period, being my main field of study. For all intents and purposes, if an American went over there he/she might be looked at differently, but no differently than a person from Japan who could only speak Japanese coming to America.

Japan has come a LONG way. There is nothing rascist here. Someone had to be a villain. No different than Russia in an American game. If the enemy had Chinese names, and Hoshido was Japanese, I could see the argument as there are still tensions there. But not vs Europe

Sorry for the long write up, and if there are grammar errors I actually did that on my phone so please forgive me.

 

If we're talking about Nanking, it was taught in my school. I remember our class being pretty horrified. I don't think we were tested on it though.

While Hoshido is Japan and Nohr is Europe, I don't really think it was racially motivated.

Nanking/Peking was one of the worst atrocities. If you are interested in the war, the Second Sino-Japanese war has a large article on wikipedia, but I really recommend the books Hirohito and The War of the World. The second deals with all nations. If you want the attrocities you might want to look up Japanese Special Military Units and/or Comfort Women. There were many other things but this is what Japan draws it's primary criticism for during the war, as in all of the above. Edited February 24, 2016 by Integrity

[Lucina's Husband]

Nohr is basically Europe and Hoshido is more or less Japan right? Well Nohr has serial killers, warmongers, and in general the people with the character flaws and the main villain is Nohrian, meanwhile Hoshido is portrayed as once peace loving nation that the Nohrians ruined. I mean I don't care or anything, but I do feel it has at least some racial connotations against Westerners, anybody else feel that way? Additionally the classes that one might deem 'evil' or 'dark' or what have you all pretty much belong to Nohr as well. Why are all Butlers suddenly Ninja Assassins just to fill class void? Is it because it's always the butler who done it? The butlers seem more like castle stewards than butlers to me as well, but that's neither here nor there.

Not really part of this, but if they're going to go with French names for some skills, and give us werewolves which are germanic in origin they could have at least called them Blutbaden.

WAIT, but doesn't Europe and a great deal of the West have a pretty well-established tradition of conquering the rest of the world? The game doesn't go out of its way to follow history, but if you want to look at history, it's pretty damning.... I think the OP needs a crash course in how racism and discrimination work, but I'm not volunteering myself for it. Really, Fire Emblem is not a very good place to start for such matters.

[Ebony]

If we're talking about Nanking, it was taught in my school. I remember our class being pretty horrified. I don't think we were tested on it though.

While Hoshido is Japan and Nohr is Europe, I don't really think it was racially motivated.

Oh? That's interesting. Just curious but did you go to a private/public school. I heard they just don't teach it in general actually.

[Sunwoo]

You know, I just thought of something.

Where was this amount of outrage for Plegia?

You know, Plegia. The desert country of dark-skinned people unless you were a main story playable? And they were also the "evil" country? I'm sure there's some unfortunate implications in that, along with all the main story playables being pale white. While there were people who did notice and point it out, where was this level of outrage?

Or is it okay when the "good guys" are the pale pseudo-Europeans?

Makes you wonder.

[Vashiane]

You know, I just thought of something.

Where was this amount of outrage for Plegia?

You know, Plegia. The desert country of dark-skinned people unless you were a main story playable? And they were also the "evil" country? I'm sure there's some unfortunate implications in that, along with all the main story playables being pale white. While there were people who did notice and point it out, where was this level of outrage?

Or is it okay when the "good guys" are the pale pseudo-Europeans?

Makes you wonder.

I've been inwardly salting about this for a year thank god someone spoke up about it.

It's

a /really/ crappy implication. Not to mention a giant portion of the brigands/bosses were dark-skinned (or darker, at that least.)