Zera Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 was that a fucking world map i saw Yes. That, and the art style are both from Sticker Star. It seems the only way to make Paper Mario great again is to remove it from Nintendo's rigid grasp, so it can flourish with creativity as it once did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czar_Yoshi Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 Between Squeenix's problem of making games so complex and nonsensical that you need to read pages of in-game flavor text to understand what's going on Honestly, IS just did pretty much that with Awakening (its story makes very little sense unless you're very dedicated to lore fishing and can put a lot of stuff together). They're definitely capable of delivering. They just didn't, last time around. I'm throwing down my hat in the "SS smells" camp. TTYD was great and I'd like something in its spirit, but SPM was pretty good too despite being fairly different from TTYD, so really my only wish is for something good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClevelandSteve Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 (edited) was that a fucking world map i saw Yes. That, and the art style are both from Sticker Star. It seems the only way to make Paper Mario great again is to remove it from Nintendo's rigid grasp, so it can flourish with creativity as it once did. To be fair, SMRPG had a world map and it was a good game. So the world map in and of itself isn't necessarily that damning. However, when compiled with the rest of the trailer, this game does look frighteningly Sticker-Star-esque. Edit: Although, SMRPG had a world map probably in part because it had to deal with the limitations of the SNES hardware, while the Wii U is powerful enough to make worlds far larger than any Mario RPG would ever need (see: Xenoblade Chronicles X). So, the continued use of the world map has less justification than it did in 1996 when SMRPG came out. Edited March 4, 2016 by ClevelandSteve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingddd Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 Yes. That, and the art style are both from Sticker Star. It seems the only way to make Paper Mario great again is to remove it from Nintendo's rigid grasp, so it can flourish with creativity as it once did. To be fair, SMRPG had a world map and it was a good game. So the world map in and of itself isn't necessarily that damning. However, when compiled with the rest of the trailer, this game does look frighteningly Sticker-Star-esque. Edit: Although, SMRPG had a world map probably in part because it had to deal with the limitations of the SNES, while the Wii U is powerful enough to make worlds far larger than any Mario RPG would ever need (see: Xenoblade Chronicles X). So, the continued use of the world map has less justification than it did in 1996 when SMRPG came out. The issue isn't because of the world map system nor the art style. Those are fine. The issue is the gameplay design and the unique character designs and worlds they built are no longer the traditional RPG that many Paper Mario fans knew and love. The NPC designs are generic toads with no unique looks to them and they have very little to no personality. The enemy designs are also generic as we already seen from the trailer of a regular shy guy, a generic koopa troopa and goomba that Paper Mario is battling. It reeks of lazy character design. The new bucket NPC maybe original but it really holds no grounds compared to the rest of the designs that are shown. Not to mention the house of 1000 generic Toadscoming out of the house is the same crummy fetch quest that Mario and Luigi Paper Jam and Sticker Stars did. The worlds are no longer unique and there was very little discoveries to be found. The gameplay is item card based which requires a lot of touch screen inputs and attacks are based on the quantity of the items you hold which is not the system that people liked in Sticker Stars. Fans much prefer the qte button input based system over the item system that sticker stars used as it felt more like puzzle solving than actually engaging in actual combat and creating some unique strategies. Not to mention there was no point of battling any enemies since you were given so many of these items that you couldn't fit them all into the system and you earn coins that buys more of those stickers/item but you could only hold a set of items in your inventory. The fact that you had to avoid battles was against anything a RPG system should do since it made no consequences of avoiding battles. To make matters worse Bill Trinen said this is an action/adventure that we all know and love. But that's not why we love Paper Mario. We love Paper Mario because of its simplistic traditional RPG style of gameplay. Not as an action/adventure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zera Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 Actually, the battles in Sticker Star weren't even puzzles, since the only strategy is from efficiently dealing damage with a limited sticker supply, and there are infinite stickers in the levels. If there were NO stickers in the levels, and level-ups existed, Sticker Star could've been a much more challenging and interesting game. To make matters worse Bill Trinen said this is an action/adventure that we all know and love. But that's not why we love Paper Mario. We love Paper Mario because of its simplistic traditional RPG style of gameplay. Not as an action/adventure. Being an action/adventure isn't bad, the problem is that Paper Mario has never excelled in the action department outside of the action commands, which themselves are only used to enhance turn-based battles. If you're looking for an action game, you're infinitely better off with Star Successor than Sticker Star. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samias Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 I saw the trailer and had such a sinking feeling this is going to be just another Sticker Star. The world map style, the card combat (aka stickers with a new coat of paint), the lack of interesting new characters... everything screams generic Mario. I mean we could potentially get something akin to Super Paper Mario which would be an improvement from Sticker Star at least, but nothing in this trailer gave me any hope except Peach accompanying Mario. Maybe something will come of that? With what they've currently shown I've got no hope. I abandoned Sticker Star around world 8 when I found it had just flatlined. The puzzles weren't fun, the worlds weren't interesting, and none of the characters were endearing. I had some enjoyment out of the quiz show part and collecting everything at least once to fill out the museum but otherwise? One of the least fun games I own for the 3DS. While Paper Mario, TTYD and Super Paper Mario are not perfect games, they at least managed to break up generic "plains, desert, haunted mansion, jungle, ice world, fire world" with a FEW new ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czar_Yoshi Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 With what they've currently shown I've got no hope. I abandoned Sticker Star around world 8 when I found it had just flatlined. Huh? I only remember it having six worlds... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samias Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 Huh? I only remember it having six worlds... It might have been world 6. Whatever the fire world was is where I dropped the game. That's how little I cared about my progression, I guess. Going through the jungle world was already like being kicked in the teeth it was so tedious tracking down shy guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Emblem Fan Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 As someone who has not played Sticker Star, Color Splash looked pretty good to me. It doesn't look like the first three Paper Mario games, but the idea of it intrigues me (even though Splatoon is already kinda doing it). I didn't see Bowser or Luigi in the trailer, so I wonder where they are. I wonder if they'll be playable like in Super Paper Mario? I am disappointed that there doesn't appear to be partners like in the first two games, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The DanMan Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 (edited) Sticker Star actually seems to have done reasonably well critically (75 on metacritic) and commercially; I see no reason why they wouldn't want to reciprocate that because a distinct minority have vocally disowned it due to certain features (or lack of them). People who have never played a Paper Mario game generally thought of Sticker Star as a good game. Comments like "This generation will never get to experience a real Paper Mario game" are kind of sickening to me. It's evolved. You don't have to like it. Being all melodramatic about it isn't going to win you guys any fans. Edited March 4, 2016 by The DanMan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonLord Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 (edited) Okay, I don't know anything of Fawful since I didn't play the game he's in. Believe me when I say you've been missing out. I highly recommend Superstar Saga and Bowser's Inside Story, two of my favourite games of all time. Partners in Time is decent as well. The former is on the Wii U eshop if you are considering buying it. Not to mention the games are hilarious, Luigi has some great moments, which I think you'd appreciate being the Luigi fan you are. Edited March 4, 2016 by DragonLord Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted March 4, 2016 Author Share Posted March 4, 2016 Believe me when I say you've been missing out. I highly recommend Superstar Saga and Bowser's Inside Story, two of my favourite games of all time. Partners in Time is decent as well. The former is on the Wii U eshop if you are considering buying it. Not to mention the games are hilarious, Luigi has some great moments, which I think you'd appreciate being the Luigi fan you are. I already know all this. And I've had people repeatedly tell me. And I already intend to try these. So please don't bring it up again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 Sticker Star actually seems to have done reasonably well critically (75 on metacritic) and commercially; I see no reason why they wouldn't want to reciprocate that because a distinct minority have vocally disowned it due to certain features (or lack of them). People who have never played a Paper Mario game generally thought of Sticker Star as a good game. Comments like "This generation will never get to experience a real Paper Mario game" are kind of sickening to me. It's evolved. You don't have to like it. Being all melodramatic about it isn't going to win you guys any fans. Well maybe if Sticker Star hadn't been hijacked by Miyamoto it would have had interesting worlds, characters, partners and a combat system. But as it stands, Sticker Star is pretty much the most barebones "RPG" I've ever seen/played in my entire life, its a complete disappointment in every single aspect, I'm not one to say the melodramatic statements, but hey people of this generation can experience the older ones via the virtual console and other means. I'd recommend all of them over Sticker Star which has barely anything to offer anyone in my honest opinion, even the OST is weaker than the other games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingddd Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 (edited) Sticker Star actually seems to have done reasonably well critically (75 on metacritic) and commercially; I see no reason why they wouldn't want to reciprocate that because a distinct minority have vocally disowned it due to certain features (or lack of them). People who have never played a Paper Mario game generally thought of Sticker Star as a good game. Comments like "This generation will never get to experience a real Paper Mario game" are kind of sickening to me. It's evolved. You don't have to like it. Being all melodramatic about it isn't going to win you guys any fans. The thing is, as elitist as it may seem, the reasoning behind the older Paper Mario fans makes sense because they took a fantastic formula and completely change it into a system that is not fun or it's very poorly designed. It is not as vocal minority as you may think. If the entire fanbase cries this much foul you know something went really wrong. Heck look at their official Nintendo Youtube channel. Where's the upload of the new Paper Mario Trailer? You know they really screwed themselves if they still haven't uploaded the new trailer on their own channel whereas other gaming channels have already released the trailer. Think of it like taking the Legend of Zelda formula and remove the dungeons, remove the need for combat, remove the 90% of the NPCs in the game, remove any writing, story and make the puzzle solving backtracking 10 times worse. This was how bad Sticker Stars was and it reeks of lazy designs. It did well commercially because it was on an affordable handheld and tons of fans were expecting a nice throwback to the RPG classic formula and instead they pretty much got the above that I stated. The situation is 1000 times worse than what Awakening got considering it still was the same 2D grid style tactics gameplay. Paper Mario went from a traditional RPG, to a RPGesque Platformer to an Item Based battle system with no RPG writings and now it's considered an "action/adventure." If I wanted an action adventure I would have gotten a different game. Derrick from Gamexplain got a chance to play the older Paper Marios and now he fully understands why fans and even Andre are so upset with stickerstars. Evolution can come in different ways but this was the evolution that is going in the wrong direction. Not to mention Paper Mario doesn't come out as frequent as other Mario games in the series. Well maybe if Sticker Star hadn't been hijacked by Miyamoto it would have had interesting worlds, characters, partners and a combat system. But as it stands, Sticker Star is pretty much the most barebones "RPG" I've ever seen/played in my entire life, its a complete disappointment in every single aspect, I'm not one to say the melodramatic statements, but hey people of this generation can experience the older ones via the virtual console and other means. I'd recommend all of them over Sticker Star which has barely anything to offer anyone in my honest opinion, even the OST is weaker than the other games. I wouldn't blame Miyamoto this much since he just made a suggestion. Edited March 4, 2016 by kingddd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Water Mage Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 I wouldn't blame Miyamoto this much since he just made a suggestion. I'm pretty sure it was more than just a suggestion, considering Miyamoto also shot down Galaxy 2's story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The DanMan Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 (edited) I'm pretty sure it was more than just a suggestion, considering Miyamoto also shot down Galaxy 2's story. For real, I feel like Miyamoto needs to be in a strictly hands-off role in projects that aren't explicitly headed by him. Edited March 4, 2016 by The DanMan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Water Mage Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 For real, I feel like Miyamoto needs to stay on the backburner of projects that aren't explicitly headed by him. I wonder why Miyamoto dislikes story so much, I know I said it before, but recent Mario games have no story other than "Peach gets kidnapped, Mario goes save her", earlier games at least had a little flavor text to give the game more indentity, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ema Skye Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 Sticker Star is honestly the Paper Mario version of Federation Force. It's a game that's nothing like the other games in the series but somehow has the series in the title. It's a kinda okay game but the problem is that it's not Paper Mario. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Water Mage Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 Sticker Star is honestly the Paper Mario version of Federation Force. It's a game that's nothing like the other games in the series but somehow has the series in the title. It's a kinda okay game but the problem is that it's not Paper Mario. Do you think it would be better recieved if it wasn't under the Paper Mario label? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingddd Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 As much as everyone keeps blaming Miyamoto and I admit I didn't like his suggestion, I don't think that is sending the right message to Nintendo. You have to tell them and offer them gameplay feedbacks. Tell them about why you love the original Paper Marios, tell them why you love the original battle gameplay formulas and why you love those world building features, explicitly tell them you want some great RPG elements return back to the formula and maybe then you'll be sending a proper message to them instead of spouting it's all Miyamotos fault. It's going to be a challenge and I agree Nintendo is out of touch in that department but you gotta send them that message. Do you think it would be better recieved if it wasn't under the Paper Mario label? Not really, I still think it's a terrible game overall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 As much as everyone keeps blaming Miyamoto and I admit I didn't like his suggestion, I don't think that is sending the right message to Nintendo. You have to tell them and offer them gameplay feedbacks. Tell them about why you love the original Paper Marios, tell them why you love the original battle gameplay formulas and why you love those world building features, explicitly tell them you want some great RPG elements return back to the formula and maybe then you'll be sending a proper message to them instead of spouting it's all Miyamotos fault. It's going to be a challenge and I agree Nintendo is out of touch in that department but you gotta send them that message. I agree with this, sorry for my Miyamoto blame curve, i'm just really salty with sticker star considering the first screenshots had things like a Chain Chomp partner and such. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Water Mage Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 As much as everyone keeps blaming Miyamoto and I admit I didn't like his suggestion, I don't think that is sending the right message to Nintendo. You have to tell them and offer them gameplay feedbacks. Tell them about why you love the original Paper Marios, tell them why you love the original battle gameplay formulas and why you love those world building features, explicitly tell them you want some great RPG elements return back to the formula and maybe then you'll be sending a proper message to them instead of spouting it's all Miyamotos fault. It's going to be a challenge and I agree Nintendo is out of touch in that department but you gotta send them that message. Not really, I still think it's a terrible game overall. I must apologize as well, I really don't think we should be blaming him. Sorry about that. And now that I think about it, Sticker Star, by itself is already a bad and bland game, the Paper Mario label just made it worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ema Skye Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 Do you think it would be better recieved if it wasn't under the Paper Mario label? It'd still be a bad game but because the bulk of the hate for it is because it's not like it's predecessors, I think the hate would be substantially less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 (edited) It'd still be a bad game but because the bulk of the hate for it is because it's not like it's predecessors, I think the hate would be substantially less. Yeah, I agree with this wholeheartedly. Like heck even Super Paper Mario while being different still respected the previous games in aspects, more so the writing and such, but you notice it didn't get all that much hate, people just questioned the direction, but most liked it anyways because the spirit was intact, plus the Platformer/RPG mixture was actually mildly interesting. Color Splash has its work cut out for it, it looks visually pleasing, but I'd like to see more of it before I give impressions. Edited March 4, 2016 by Jedi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magical Glace Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 Graphically, looking at Color Splash, I'm just going to say I despise the white outlines. They look really awkward to me. Super and TTYD had the best graphics for Paper Mario imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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