So why exactly do people call Conquest Corrin an idiot?(Conquest spoilers)

[BruceLee]

It feels to me like the Nohr siblings care more about obeying big daddy evil than they care for Corrin's happiness.

Garon tries to kill him multiple times and the siblings either shrug it off or ignore it. And then if you choose Hoshido they want to kill you. Best siblings evar.

Edited March 9, 2016 by BruceLee

[Emblem Blade]

Well, it's hard to believe someone if they make a claim that sounds ridiculous if you haven't heard or seen it happen before. None of the siblings saw Corrin get thrown into the 'bottomless' canyon by the the sword only to be saved by Lilith. None of the siblings also saw Hans under the 'order' of 'Garon' to kill them before presumably 'killing' Gunter. Well that and the Nohr Siblings don't even know that the 'Garon' they are with isn't the same Garon that they knew when they were little. Some of them are also duty-bound aka Xander (we know what happens in Birthright for those of us who did that path) who ends up seeing how bad things are when they see Slime Garon and realizing that they were under orders from an imposter. Elise is more inclined to listen and comply to Corrin due to her affection towards them. Camille, you can guess. Leo, you'll need to talk a lot of sense into (think a slightly less serious version of Takumi when he's not possessed). Elise never desired to 'kill' Corrin, she would never do such a thing. Camille was only going to kill your own allies in Birthright to get you back (Corrin isn't liking this idea of yours Camille). Xander is just doing what he thinks is right as is Leo who's not as gullible as the other three.

[BruceLee]

Well, it's hard to believe someone if they make a claim that sounds ridiculous if you haven't heard or seen it happen before. None of the siblings saw Corrin get thrown into the 'bottomless' canyon by the the sword only to be saved by Lilith. None of the siblings also saw Hans under the 'order' of 'Garon' to kill them before presumably 'killing' Gunter. Well that and the Nohr Siblings don't even know that the 'Garon' they are with isn't the same Garon that they knew when they were little. Some of them are also duty-bound aka Xander (we know what happens in Birthright for those of us who did that path) who ends up seeing how bad things are when they see Slime Garon and realizing that they were under orders from an imposter. Elise is more inclined to listen and comply to Corrin due to her affection towards them. Camille, you can guess. Leo, you'll need to talk a lot of sense into (think a slightly less serious version of Takumi when he's not possessed). Elise never desired to 'kill' Corrin, she would never do such a thing. Camille was only going to kill your own allies in Birthright to get you back (Corrin isn't liking this idea of yours Camille). Xander is just doing what he thinks is right as is Leo who's not as gullible as the other three.

Sorry, not buying it. If they really cared about Corrin they would do something after he tells them Garon tried to kill him. Especially after all the stuff they see Garon do. Hell, Xander still threatens to kill Corrin if he's wrong about Garon being a slime at the end of Conquest.

You're right about Leo and Elise in birthright, but Camilla outright states in chapter 13 that if she can't have Corrin no one can, and she tries to kill him. I'm not even gonna get started on Xander.

Edited March 9, 2016 by BruceLee

[Emblem Blade]

Sorry, not buying it. If they really cared about Corrin they would do something after he tells them Garon tried to kill him. Especially after all the stuff they see Garon do. Hell, Xander still threatens to kill Corrin if he's wrong about Garon being a slime at the end of Conquest.

You're right about Leo and Elise in birthright, but Camilla outright states in chapter 13 that if she can't have Corrin no one can, and she tries to kill him. I'm not even gonna get started on Xander.

It's fine with me if you don't believe what I say. Yes, they could do something but that something might be anything at random. Somewhat funny, Xander overreacts again despite that sole fact that he saw Slime Garon in front of him along with Leo and the rest of the siblings in Conquest. At some point in the storyline Corrin had basically told the group that something was going wrong with 'Garon' and seeing the imposter proved them right. Yet Xander has to go off to saying that Corrin is possibly lying or wrong about what they had told the rest of the group.

The way how Camille stated that makes me wonder how the rest of the Nohr Siblings would feel. If she can't have Corrin first, then the rest of her siblings aren't allowed to have them at all (talk about being selfish). Then after you beat Camille, she says that she still loves you...both times you defeat her.

[Ryas]

Man, you guys must have some real cojones. You guys keep saying "But they could have done something against King Garon!" like it's nothing special. Yup, overthrowing a king who commands the strongest army on the continent and who has a penchant for handing out executions like they're a party favor? I could finish that up just in time for breakfast! They should have just manned up, its not like he's their dad or anything.

[Tolvir]

Sorry, not buying it. If they really cared about Corrin they would do something after he tells them Garon tried to kill him. Especially after all the stuff they see Garon do. Hell, Xander still threatens to kill Corrin if he's wrong about Garon being a slime at the end of Conquest.

You're right about Leo and Elise in birthright, but Camilla outright states in chapter 13 that if she can't have Corrin no one can, and she tries to kill him. I'm not even gonna get started on Xander.

Well in Camila's defense she is really mentally f'ed up from the concubine wars. She had all of her sisters trying to kill her, and she had to kill some herself. In her mind Corrin going to Hoshido is him/her (in my opinion this situation makes even more sense when Corrin is female) trying to betray her and kill her. In that same exact chapter she also gets really really close to leaving Nohr and joining Corrin's side because of the last conversation with her in 13. If Leo didn't show up at the end you could of very well seen a situation of Camilla betraying Nohr just so she could be with Corrin again. It really shows the state of mind she is in to be so easily manipulated by both sides, so she really is not all there mentally. Its also why she is hostile to Hinoka, she literally sees it as Hinoka trying to steal Corrin away from her.

Unfortunately Xander is victim to some really bad continuity problems, because out of all of the siblings in Nohr, Xander should of been the most trusting of Corrin because it has been hinted at in various supports and dialogue that Xander has had his suspicions about his father, and was only following orders until the time came to end it. He is also the first one of all of them to start the fight against Garon once he is revealed to be a slime monster, and he is the only one of them that actually knew the real Garon. I really wish they would of focused on Xander more in Conquest and showed some flashbacks to what Garon was like before being possessed so we could understand more of where Xander was coming from, because supposedly Garon was a much better person than his possessed form. Xander talks about how he wouldn't of started war with a country needlessly, would of treated Corrin as one of his own children, which he treated much better than when he was possessed, etc.

Edited March 9, 2016 by Tolvir

[Emblem Blade]

Well in Camila's defense she is really mentally f'ed up from the concubine wars. She had all of her sisters trying to kill her, and she had to kill some herself. In her mind Corrin going to Hoshido is him/her (in my opinion this situation makes even more sense when Corrin is female) trying to betray her and kill her. In that same exact chapter she also gets really really close to leaving Nohr and joining Corrin's side because of the last conversation with her in 13. If Leo didn't show up at the end you could of very well seen a situation of Camilla betraying Nohr just so she could be with Corrin again. It really shows the state of mind she is in to be so easily manipulated by both sides, so she really is not all there mentally. Its also why she is hostile to Hinoka, she literally sees it as Hinoka trying to steal Corrin away from her.

Unfortunately Xander is victim to some really bad continuity problems, because out of all of the siblings in Nohr, Xander should of been the most trusting of Corrin because it has been hinted at in various supports and dialogue that Xander has had his suspicions about his father, and was only following orders until the time came to end it. He is also the first one of all of them to start the fight against Garon once he is revealed to be a slime monster, and he is the only one of them that actually knew the real Garon. I really wish they would of focused on Xander more in Conquest and showed some flashbacks to what Garon was like before being possessed so we could understand more of where Xander was coming from, because supposedly Garon was a much better person than his possessed form. Xander talks about how he wouldn't of started war with a country needlessly, would of treated Corrin as one of his own children, which he treated much better than when he was possessed, etc.

Then you have Xander's blind loyalty to his deceased father's corpse that is possessed and being used, until Elise takes a fatal blow and dies. Leo is arguably the one character in Nohr that you should have the hardest time persuading that is playable, not Xander.

[BruceLee]

Man, you guys must have some real cojones. You guys keep saying "But they could have done something against King Garon!" like it's nothing special. Yup, overthrowing a king who commands the strongest army on the continent and who has a penchant for handing out executions like they're a party favor? I could finish that up just in time for breakfast! They should have just manned up, its not like he's their dad or anything.

Huh, I wonder why Ike even bothered fighting back against Ashnard. What can he and his little mercenary gang do against a man who controls an entire army right?

It's like all of the criticism is going over your head. We want a hero, not a spineless coward.

Well in Camila's defense she is really mentally f'ed up from the concubine wars. She had all of her sisters trying to kill her, and she had to kill some herself. In her mind Corrin going to Hoshido is him/her (in my opinion this situation makes even more sense when Corrin is female) trying to betray her and kill her. In that same exact chapter she also gets really really close to leaving Nohr and joining Corrin's side because of the last conversation with her in 13. If Leo didn't show up at the end you could of very well seen a situation of Camilla betraying Nohr just so she could be with Corrin again. It really shows the state of mind she is in to be so easily manipulated by both sides, so she really is not all there mentally. Its also why she is hostile to Hinoka, she literally sees it as Hinoka trying to steal Corrin away from her.

Unfortunately Xander is victim to some really bad continuity problems, because out of all of the siblings in Nohr, Xander should of been the most trusting of Corrin because it has been hinted at in various supports and dialogue that Xander has had his suspicions about his father, and was only following orders until the time came to end it. He is also the first one of all of them to start the fight against Garon once he is revealed to be a slime monster, and he is the only one of them that actually knew the real Garon. I really wish they would of focused on Xander more in Conquest and showed some flashbacks to what Garon was like before being possessed so we could understand more of where Xander was coming from, because supposedly Garon was a much better person than his possessed form. Xander talks about how he wouldn't of started war with a country needlessly, would of treated Corrin as one of his own children, which he treated much better than when he was possessed, etc.

Fair enough, i can see why Camilla would be the way she is. Can you tell me where that was stated about her sisters? I didn't know about that, or maybe i did and forgot.

I agree Xander is a victim of inconsistent writing. It's a shame, i could have liked him if the writers handled him better. He does have his good moments, they are just overshadowed by all of the bad moments for me.

Edited March 9, 2016 by BruceLee

[Emblem Blade]

Huh, I wonder why Ike even bothered fighting back against Ashnard. What can he and his little mercenary gang do against a man who controls an entire army right?

It's like all of the criticism is going over your head. We want a hero, not a spineless coward.

Fair enough, i can see why Camilla would be the way she is. Can you tell me where that was stated about her sisters? I didn't know about that, or maybe i did and forgot.

I agree Xander is a victim of inconsistent writing. It's a shame, i could have liked him if the writers handled him better. Because he does have his good moments, they are just overshadowed by all of the bad moments for me.

Ike is Ike, no use arguing about him in this game. Ike's been known to try to do the impossible since PoR, such as facing and trying to defeat the Black Knight right after his father got impaled, and we know how that battle went.

[NekoKnight]

Ike is Ike, no use arguing about him in this game. Ike's been known to try to do the impossible since PoR, such as facing and trying to defeat the Black Knight right after his father got impaled, and we know how that battle went.

Beating the odds is a theme of every Fire Emblem game. Conquest is the only game that tells you to lie down and accept your fate.

Fair enough, i can see why Camilla would be the way she is. Can you tell me where that was stated about her sisters? I didn't know about that, or maybe i did and forgot.

The concubine wars are mentioned in a few supports but I think the bit about killing her siblings is just headcanon.

Headcanon that I fully support and am writing about.

[Emblem Blade]

Beating the odds is a theme of every Fire Emblem game. Conquest is the only game that tells you to lie down and accept your fate.

The concubine wars are mentioned in a few supports but I think the bit about killing her siblings is just headcanon.

Headcanon that I fully support and am writing about.

Well, that theme sometimes gets turned on its' head at times in every game, Fates apparently has the worst stroke of it due to the storyline. The gameplay is nice but the storyline though...

Well, it can be argued if Conquest is the only version/path that says to accept your fate.

[Time the Crestfallen]

Huh, I wonder why Ike even bothered fighting back against Ashnard. What can he and his little mercenary gang do against a man who controls an entire army right?

It's like all of the criticism is going over your head. We want a hero, not a spineless coward.

You make it sound as if the Greil Mercenaries fought the whole army by themselves. If I'm not mistaken, they had some Begnion troops from Sanaki with them as well as warriors from Gallia and the support of Crimea.

In Fates, we never see any major resistance against Garon aside from Hoshido. The Ice Tribe and Cheve rebellions get curb-stomped, we're never shown any real objection against Garon's way of ruling within Nohr aside from Corrin and Azura. The siblings only stand against him once he's proven to be a slime monster and refuse to budge on the issue until the second-to-last chapter of Conquest. Xander is a particularly stubborn tit about the whole thing, insisting that Corrin is a traitor for not wanting to go back to the country ruled by someone who has already tried to kill them twice for all they know and refuses to completely stand down even after Elise's dying wish was for him to stop fighting in Birthright. So forgive me if it doesn't seem like Corrin is in any real position to launch a full-on rebellion.

[Tolvir]

Huh, I wonder why Ike even bothered fighting back against Ashnard. What can he and his little mercenary gang do against a man who controls an entire army right?

It's like all of the criticism is going over your head. We want a hero, not a spineless coward.

Fair enough, i can see why Camilla would be the way she is. Can you tell me where that was stated about her sisters? I didn't know about that, or maybe i did and forgot.

I agree Xander is a victim of inconsistent writing. It's a shame, i could have liked him if the writers handled him better. He does have his good moments, they are just overshadowed by all of the bad moments for me.

I can understand why you are like that with Xander. If it wasn't for the fact that I really want to like the character, and like his general design art wise then I would probably be in the same boat.

Camila's stuff is talked about in a few supports. Specifically Niles, and there are probably a few others. I think Camila and Elise support touches on it, and wouldn't be surprised if Camila and Hinoka support does too.

Beating the odds is a theme of every Fire Emblem game. Conquest is the only game that tells you to lie down and accept your fate.

The concubine wars are mentioned in a few supports but I think the bit about killing her siblings is just headcanon.

Headcanon that I fully support and am writing about.

More like a logical conclusion than anything. If her sisters tried to kill her, and she lived through it, she more or less had to kill a few of them. Really reminds me of Drow societies from Forgotten Realms like Menzoberranzan, except in reverse. Wouldn't be that surprised either if that is where the writer got the inspiration as DnD seems pretty popular among anime/manga writers in Japan. Send me a message when you are done writing whatever you are writing, sounds interesting.

Edited March 10, 2016 by Tolvir

[BruceLee]

You make it sound as if the Greil Mercenaries fought the whole army by themselves. If I'm not mistaken, they had some Begnion troops from Sanaki with them as well as warriors from Gallia and the support of Crimea.

In Fates, we never see any major resistance against Garon aside from Hoshido. The Ice Tribe and Cheve rebellions get curb-stomped, we're never shown any real objection against Garon's way of ruling within Nohr aside from Corrin and Azura. The siblings only stand against him once he's proven to be a slime monster and refuse to budge on the issue until the second-to-last chapter of Conquest. Xander is a particularly stubborn tit about the whole thing, insisting that Corrin is a traitor for not wanting to go back to the country ruled by someone who has already tried to kill them twice for all they know and refuses to completely stand down even after Elise's dying wish was for him to stop fighting in Birthright. So forgive me if it doesn't seem like Corrin is in any real position to launch a full-on rebellion.

Did Ike not start out with only his mercenary gang? The allies he gained he did through fighting and persevering. Corrin had the Ice Tribe, Cheve rebels and Hoshido to join up with. So yes, i can blame him for not fighting back.

[BrightBow]

You make it sound as if the Greil Mercenaries fought the whole army by themselves. If I'm not mistaken, they had some Begnion troops from Sanaki with them as well as warriors from Gallia and the support of Crimea.

Ike didn't start out with an army but that didn't stop him from fighting Daein anyway. They could have handed over Elincia or they could have simply stayed in Gallia instead of heading right back into Daein territory.

[Emblem Blade]

You make it sound as if the Greil Mercenaries fought the whole army by themselves. If I'm not mistaken, they had some Begnion troops from Sanaki with them as well as warriors from Gallia and the support of Crimea.

In Fates, we never see any major resistance against Garon aside from Hoshido. The Ice Tribe and Cheve rebellions get curb-stomped, we're never shown any real objection against Garon's way of ruling within Nohr aside from Corrin and Azura. The siblings only stand against him once he's proven to be a slime monster and refuse to budge on the issue until the second-to-last chapter of Conquest. Xander is a particularly stubborn tit about the whole thing, insisting that Corrin is a traitor for not wanting to go back to the country ruled by someone who has already tried to kill them twice for all they know and refuses to completely stand down even after Elise's dying wish was for him to stop fighting in Birthright. So forgive me if it doesn't seem like Corrin is in any real position to launch a full-on rebellion.

They also had support from either Nasir or Ena depending on how you completed one of the prior chapters in addition to one of the Laguz Royals.

Ike didn't start out with an army but that didn't stop him from fighting Daein anyway. They could have handed over Elincia or they could have simply stayed in Gallia instead of heading right back into Daein territory.

Except that was the opposite of what their original intention was. The Mercenaries were trying to keep Elincia safe from harm, especially since Greil had told them to do so even before his death. Ike isn't one who is a soft-spoken person who would let no-nonsense villains take over another country.

Edited March 10, 2016 by Emblem Blade

[Tolvir]

Did Ike not start out with only his mercenary gang? The allies he gained he did through fighting and persevering. Corrin had the Ice Tribe, Cheve rebels and Hoshido to join up with. So yes, i can blame him for not fighting back.

Well Ike didn't start out underneath Ashnard either. Corrin at least has an excuse when it comes to that situation in Conquest because he is on the inside of it, not the outside. Its like saying that Ena's brother should of tried to stop Ashnard, which I think he did and failed, and ultimately became Ashnard's bitch.

[Time the Crestfallen]

Did Ike not start out with only his mercenary gang? The allies he gained he did through fighting and persevering. Corrin had the Ice Tribe, Cheve rebels and Hoshido to join up with. So yes, i can blame him for not fighting back.

The Ice Tribe gets absolutely destroyed in Birthright and Flora is forced to try and kill Corrin or they'll get wiped out. Cheve fairs a little better, but you still ultimately wind up having to flee since Takumi leads them to the HQ. If you want him to make align with Hoshido in Conquest, this occurs after he already sided with Nohr, so while Ryoma and Hinoka still try to bring you back they have all the reasons in the world to not actually trust you.

Ike didn't start out with an army but that didn't stop him from fighting Daein anyway. They could have handed over Elincia or they could have simply stayed in Gallia instead of heading right back into Daein territory.

True, that's how they start out. But those allies are actually presented as having the means to harm Daein. The only real opposition Nohr faces is Hoshido, since both the Ice Tribe and Cheve are nothing more than blips on the radar and we're never shown any internal objection to Garon's rule. I want Corrin to rebel as well, trust me. But that would require making more than a few changes to the plot since what we're given stacks the deck heavily in Garon's favour.

Edited March 10, 2016 by Phillius

[BrightBow]

They also had support from either Nasir or Ena depending on how you completed one of the prior chapters in addition to one of the Laguz Royals.

At the very end when they literally conquered Ashnard's nation already. They chased the Daein army all the way to the capital of Crimea before Ena, Nasir and the Laguz kings joined them. And they encountered Ena and the raven king as enemies in previous battles.

Edit:

Except that was the opposite of what their original intention was. The Mercenaries were trying to keep Elincia safe from harm, especially since Greil had told them to do so even before his death. Ike isn't one who is a soft-spoken person who would let no-nonsense villains take over another country.

I'm sorry but I don't understand what you were saying here.

Edited March 10, 2016 by BrightBow

[Shadow Knight]

The Ice Tribe gets absolutely destroyed in Birthright and Flora is forced to try and kill Corrin or they'll get wiped out. Cheve fairs a little better, but you still ultimately wind up having to flee since Takumi leads them to the HQ. If you want him to make align with Hoshido in Conquest, this occurs after he already sided with Nohr, so while Ryoma and Hinoka still try to bring you back they have all the reasons in the world to not actually trust you.

Let's also not forget how..... disappointed they were when you betrayed the family to join the man who used you as a pawn to kill your mother. I don't really think there is much of a chance of them trusting Corrin at that point. Arguably though Ryoma and Hinoka trust Corrin, (For some reason ) when he allows her to leave and when he tells Ryoma that Hinoka is still alive in Ch. 25 but that point is also incredibly stupid. As much as I despise Takumi he's arguably the most rational person in Conquest. Heck he even gets rid of the water in Ch. 10 depriving you of your chokepoints.

[BruceLee]

Well Ike didn't start out underneath Ashnard either. Corrin at least has an excuse when it comes to that situation in Conquest because he is on the inside of it, not the outside. Its like saying that Ena's brother should of tried to stop Ashnard, which I think he did and failed, and ultimately became Ashnard's bitch.

That's not an excuse. Gather allies and bail. It's simple. Ike would have done it.

The Ice Tribe gets absolutely destroyed in Birthright and Flora is forced to try and kill Corrin or they'll get wiped out. Cheve fairs a little better, but you still ultimately wind up having to flee since Takumi leads them to the HQ. If you want him to make align with Hoshido in Conquest, this occurs after he already sided with Nohr, so while Ryoma and Hinoka still try to bring you back they have all the reasons in the world to not actually trust you.

True, that's how they start out. But those allies are actually presented as having the means to harm Daein. The only real opposition Nohr faces is Hoshido, since both the Ice Tribe and Cheve are nothing more than blips on the radar and we're never shown any internal objection to Garon's rule. I want Corrin to rebel as well, trust me. But that would require making more than a few changes to the plot since what we're given stacks the deck heavily in Garon's favour.

Except Hinoka and Ryoma are still willing to trust you. Conquest makes that clear.

We are discussing the story after you've already chosen Nohr, at which point the rebels are within shouting distance. The reason the ice tribe and Cheve rebels fail is because of Corrin. It's ironic. The logical thing to do is to team up with them and join Hoshido.

Again, i see no excuse except cowardice.

Edited March 10, 2016 by BruceLee

[Emblem Blade]

At the very end when they literally conquered Ashnard's nation already. They chased the Daein army all the way to the capital of Crimea before Ena, Nasir and the Laguz kings joined them. And they encountered Ena and the raven king as enemies in previous battles.

Ena and Nasir (or just Ena) join you after you have defeat the Black Knight in PoR, during which they are still chasing the Daein Army around the plaza. The Laguz Royals join you in the endgame. Point is here (in another game) that Ike and his personal team of mercenaries weren't the only ones who contributed to Ashnard's demise (one could say Ashnard planned his demise since the start of the game). There are some off-screen moments where Begnion under Zelgius' command were available to effortlessly block and defeat any Daein attackers, we never even see what they do.

Back to Fates now, Nohr is one huge kingdom that is more or less a whopping military that is led through brute force. You could stack up every non-Hoshido nation in Fates and still Nohr could easily come out on top. Do you really think Corrin would be able to mount a full out attack without any information granted that the odds are severely against their own army? They might, Corrin isn't the smartest person in the book of Fates but they aren't at full fault for not waging war against someone who is described for killing any betrayer with absolute ease.

[BrightBow]

This all reminds me of a certain character from Radiant Dawn:

Sanaki: Hetzel… I had thought that you alone might be above Lekain’s foul conspiracy! It saddens me to see you at his side.
Hetzel: N-no, Apostle Sanaki! I–
Sanaki: I didn’t ask for excuses! You fight alongside Lekain. That’s more proof than I’ll ever need.
Hetzel: …You are right, I fight with him. I had no choice. But…please, understand that I’ve always done my best to honor and respect Your Majesty.
Sanaki: Then how do you explain my confinement in Mainal Cathedral?
Hetzel: I-I didn’t do anything! It was all Lekain! I didn’t know anything about it, and only heard later…
Sanaki: And when you did hear of it, why didn’t you stop it?
Hetzel: I…couldn’t. Actually, I could have, but I…didn’t say anything. It was the same with Misaha, and the Serenes Massacre… I…
Sanaki: …didn’t say anything. In other words, you stood by as my grandmother and the Serenes people were killed!
Hetzel: P-please forgive me…

Hetzel: Wait… I remember you… You were one of the dracoknights that fled to Daein, defying the senators… You opposed the almighty Begnion and the word of the goddess… Why? Why would you defy such power?
Haar: You could live another lifetime, and you’d still never understand.

Hetzel: I don’t understand any of you. How can you oppose the goddess? It’s only natural that people live to please the gods… the weak follow the strong.
Jill: Strong, weak… It doesn’t matter. I fight on the side of my conscience, and have yet to regret my battles.

Hetzel: Mortals cannot measure up to gods. Any child knows as much. Why do you not kneel before her?
Astrid: That would be throwing away my own beliefs to live a life of blind obedience. I stopped doing that three years ago, and I’ve never looked back.

They should have made Hetzel the protagonist of that game.

Edited March 10, 2016 by BrightBow

[Tolvir]

That's not an excuse. Gather allies and bail. It's simple. Ike would have done it.

We are discussing the story after you've already chosen Nohr, at which point the rebels are within shouting distance. The reason the ice tribe and Cheve rebels fail is because of Corrin. It's ironic. The logical thing to do is to team up with them and join Hoshido.

Except Hinoka and Ryoma are still willing to trust you. Conquest makes that clear. Again, i see no excuse except cowardice.

What allies? The only competent allies you can gather are Cheve's, and unfortunately they are very unlikely to listen to Corrin based on Hoshido already interacting with them. That leaves the Ice Tribe, which you stomp a mud hole in at level 7. If level 7 corrin and friends can beat them, what chance to they stand against Iago, Hans, Garon, and their collective forces? The problem is Conquest doesn't give enough rebel forces that are competent enough to fight against Nohr, we only get 1, and they are already aligned with Hoshido. Ike had two kingdom's forces, all the laguz, his own forces(which I imagine has more characters than are named, its just the ones that are named are the "leaders and elite") and even the Dragon Laguz. It was heavily stacked in Ike's favor at that point, as opposed to it being heavily stacked in Garon's.

Edited March 10, 2016 by Tolvir

[Time the Crestfallen]

Except Hinoka and Ryoma are still willing to trust you. Conquest makes that clear.

We are discussing the story after you've already chosen Nohr, at which point the rebels are within shouting distance. The reason the ice tribe and Cheve rebels fail is because of Corrin. It's ironic. The logical thing to do is to team up with them and join Hoshido.

Again, i see no excuse except cowardice.

They are, but what about Takumi? Or the other Hoshidan nobles and generals? There's more to Hoshido than just Ryoma and Hinoka, since a rogue group of soldiers was able to kidnap Azura and escort her all the way to the Dragon Fortress.

The Ice Tribe doesn't fail because of Corrin, Corrin actually makes things better for them. In Conquest, they get convinced to stand down. In Birthright, they get absolutely destroyed by Garon and the Nohrian Military, to the point where Flora says they would've been wiped out completely if they weren't intimidated into trying to assassinate Corrin.

There is no military power that can stand up to Nohr in the story. Even on Birthright, everything you hear about the battles on the front lines say that Nohr is pushing further into Hoshidan territory and will win if I recall correctly. That's why you sneak into Krakenburg and assassinate Garon instead of just facing the entire Nohrian military up-front.