So why exactly do people call Conquest Corrin an idiot?(Conquest spoilers)

[Tsuky]

Goodness, gone for spring break, and I'm now so late to this party XD

I feel like Fates would've been a far more interesting story if anyone besides Kamui had been the protagonist.

We could have Ryouma or Marx as the leads of Birthright and Conquest, respectively. Actually, any of the sibling pairs would have worked. I think Takumi and Leon might've been a good as main lords in their respective routes, as they're kind of in the same age range as the "typical" FE lord and they'd have an excuse to start off lower-leveled and to raise up.

With the way the siblings are currently set up, Corrin has zero business being the leader of an army (other than being the protagonist). I'd say IS was already off to a bad start here.

Have you played Revelation yet? If not, you're in for a surprise.

I think Fire Emblem would be much, much better with a human element as opposed to vaguely evil forces trying to destroy the world for no real reason other than madness, desperation or for the lulz. Unlike many series in a fantasy setting, monsters and magic powers are not the focus of Fire Emblem; they're there, sure, but it's not something that takes a huge place in the story. However, that sort of creates a disconnect when you go from mostly killing humans/shapeshifters to the obligatory evil dragon.

It has been said over and over, but so many things would instantly be fixed if Garon was more of a tragic (and human) villain and Ananakos simply didn't exist.

Intelligent Systems tried having their cake and eating it too, which is why the third route is there in the first place: to make sure people don't get upset over having to choose a side, which defeats the entire purpose of the setting.

Tbh, that's what I expected them to do with Revelations ever since it was announced (since, you know, gotta coddle the players' delicate feelings). With that said, I'm still disappointed and wished this part of the story didn't exist; it makes the other two routes look stupid.

I have different problems with the story components of Conquest and Revelations, and I can't decide which one is worse: Conquest started with a good concept and got ruined by the moronic execution of the plot, while Revelations' very existence as a "superior" choice is problematic, but I suppose it did fulfill its purpose of delivering fan service.

Edited March 15, 2016 by Tsuky

[Thane]

Goodness, gone for spring break, and I'm now so late to this party XD

Tbh, that's what I expected them to do with Revelations ever since it was announced (since, you know, gotta coddle the players' delicate feelings). With that said, I'm still disappointed and wished this part of the story didn't exist; it makes the other two routes look stupid.

I have different problems with the story components of Conquest and Revelations, and I can't decide which one is worse: Conquest started with a good concept and got ruined by the moronic execution of the plot, while Revelations' very existence as a "superior" choice is problematic, but I suppose it did fulfill its purpose of delivering fan service.

Welcome back! Did you have fun?

I expected something similar as well, but maybe a better explanation. I think the two paths have their own different problems though, just like you said. What I've been thinking about more and more recently is that no one actually talks in this game; it's all exposition dumping or praise of Corrin - there's almost no real dialogue that adds to the world and characters in-story.

[Tsuky]

Welcome back! Did you have fun?

I expected something similar as well, but maybe a better explanation. I think the two paths have their own different problems though, just like you said. What I've been thinking about more and more recently is that no one actually talks in this game; it's all exposition dumping or praise of Corrin - there's almost no real dialogue that adds to the world and characters in-story.

Thanks! Even though I had to study for my med school entrance exam, I at least got through 18 chapters of Birthright (yeah, I can't bring my game to college), so that was fun :D

I definitely see what you are saying. Hoshido, Nohr, and Valla don't feel real. There's almost no world-building; many playable characters just come in, establish their trope/utter exposition/praise Corrin, and then leave. Of course, I feel like Awakening has this problem too, so I'm willing to cut them some slack here.

[Thane]

Thanks! Even though I had to study for my med school entrance exam, I at least got through 18 chapters of Birthright (yeah, I can't bring my game to college), so that was fun :D

I definitely see what you are saying. Hoshido, Nohr, and Valla don't feel real. There's almost no world-building; many playable characters just come in, establish their trope/utter exposition/praise Corrin, and then leave. Of course, I feel like Awakening has this problem too, so I'm willing to cut them some slack here.

Pff, look at this girl here, having goals and shit.

Even though Awakening is my favorite Fire Emblem game, I always try to be fair and admit the many flaws it has. However, I think it's unfair to say it's on the same level as Fates in terms of character interactions in the main story - it's not Tellius, but it's most certainly not Fates, either. We at least see them traveling together, Chrom being a father, them mourning Emmeryn (no matter what you think of her or her death, at least characters react appropriately). In Fates the characters either never take time or are given time to reflect upon anything. What's the first thing that happens after Mikoto dies? They go to the battlefield. After Elise sacrifices herself? The fight goes on, etc.

[Tsuky]

Pff, look at this girl here, having goals and shit.

Even though Awakening is my favorite Fire Emblem game, I always try to be fair and admit the many flaws it has. However, I think it's unfair to say it's on the same level as Fates in terms of character interactions in the main story - it's not Tellius, but it's most certainly not Fates, either. We at least see them traveling together, Chrom being a father, them mourning Emmeryn (no matter what you think of her or her death, at least characters react appropriately). In Fates the characters either never take time or are given time to reflect upon anything. What's the first thing that happens after Mikoto dies? They go to the battlefield. After Elise sacrifices herself? The fight goes on, etc.

Lol, I wish I can make a career out of playing video games, but sometimes life demands other things to be done XD

Oh no, I definitely think Awakening did better, at least in character interactions. It's just that I wish places like Ylisse, Plagia, Chon'sin, etc., were fleshed out more.

I think they were trying to go with the whole "there's little time for mourning during war" thing with Mikoto, so I was mostly okay with it (and if you choose Nohr, you wouldn't know how much the Hoshidan siblings grieved the death of their mother). The Elise one definitely went by a bit too quickly, but that's because Xander was being stubborn and still coming after your ass after all that :P The one I have a problem with is Takumi's. Man, that one went by so fast. And Azura definitely did not react like a normal human being would in that situation. Someone you care about (at least somewhat, right?) just freakin' jumped off of the castle walls, and your reaction is basically to move on? At least Corrin was shocked and went immediately to check the base of the wall; Azura wasn't going to if Corrin didn't. Jeez.

Overall, quite a few of the deaths feel like not much thought was put into them, so the characters must move on quickly to advance the plot.

Edited March 15, 2016 by Tsuky

[Dark Holy Elf]

To be fair, Takumi was a jerk to Azura from what little interaction we've seen. (He throws her Nohrian heritage in her face even before Mikoto dies, which suggests it's something he'd done often.) He'd also been behaving like a maniac and become their enemy, and Azura had plenty of time to steel herself to the idea that he might perish fighting them. As someone who played Conquest first, I certainly didn't mourn him and, I wouldn't expect the characters to either.

Azura, notably, did mourn when Ryoma died.

But I do agree that I'd have liked to see more reflection in general. It feels like most of the character work in Fates has to either be inferred, or is in supports.

[secondworld]

Welcome back! Did you have fun?

I expected something similar as well, but maybe a better explanation. I think the two paths have their own different problems though, just like you said. What I've been thinking about more and more recently is that no one actually talks in this game; it's all exposition dumping or praise of Corrin - there's almost no real dialogue that adds to the world and characters in-story.

Well if it isn't lack of world building, my least favorite (specific)part of Awakening's story that still exists in Fates. How lovely.

What is this place? Where is it located in relation to other places? How many places are there? What are the politics of these places and what are some of the major beliefs? What are the cultural differences of Nohr and Hoshido and the other places beyond visual? What is the history of this world exactly? How does *insert thing* work?

I miss those pre-chapter narrations and Info Conversations so much.

[Frelia]

Well if it isn't lack of world building, my least favorite (specific)part of Awakening's story that still exists in Fates. How lovely.

What is this place? Where is it located in relation to other places? How many places are there? What are the politics of these places and what are some of the major beliefs? What are the cultural differences of Nohr and Hoshido and the other places beyond visual? What is the history of this world exactly? How does *insert thing* work?

I miss those pre-chapter narrations and Info Conversations so much.

This is exact issue I have with this game's worldbuilding and part of the story too. I really dislike it when games especially ones like Fates barely have worldbuiling. There are people who are writing fanfics and fixing these issues, but still. More worldbuiling should have been added to the game by IntSys' writers in the first place.

Get ready to get more mad about Revelation later on too. It's something.

Edited March 16, 2016 by Frelia

[jankmaster98]

Whelp, lets hope that the tide of the market doesn't convince IS that the is the way of the future. I started conquest and didn't think too badly of the story as I played it. I didn't think about it too much, and that was probably what IS was hoping for all along... There was so much potential and it was left on the wayside.... Eh, but i didn't feel like condemning it to the pit of One More Day and All Star Batman and Robin level of story telling... I should and will expect better storytelling in my video games, the standards should not be lowered.

For some reason as I'm playing Revelations plot it feels weaker than conquests as I'm going merrily along somehow getting most everyone on my side... From what I hear of Birthright the consensus is that there is no consensus. At the heart of the problem may be making your Avatar the "Lord" character rather than almost anyone else... I'm afraid we might be moving into the territory of a badly written self insert fic as a opposed to a good or decent one, and in my opinion the greater power/story importance you give to your SI the greater the risk and rewards. We'll see where the future takes us, but overall I'm not crushed in my soul my the game I've played and the story that came with it.

[Seanp12]

Having finished all three routes now, I think that the biggest problem with all three stories is that they're interconnected. They should have each been designed to be totally independent of one another, like alternate universes. There's also the problem with backstory. I have no idea why the situation arose even after playing Revelation--the only thing it explained to me was why Garon decides to send Corrin on suicide missions instead of just killing him--but the explanation itself lacks an explanation. Of the three, Revelation is probably my least favorite story. I still think that Conquest gets an unduly bad rap, but it still suffers from fatal plot failures that keep it from being any better than mediocre. I think I like it better than Birthright, however, just because Birthright was so straightforward that it bored me. Better to be bewildered than bored when it comes to story.

[Sire]

I'm just starting with Birthright now (after playing Conquest), and immediately Birthright!Corrin calls out Garon for what he is, a "coward and lair". He even foreshadows in the decision scene that Garon is no longer human and is pure evil! What is this?!

...I also see how people dislike Xander on calling Corrin a traitor, being blind and remaining loyal to Garon. This is going to suck.

Also, there's more people in Birthright's version of Ch 6 than Conquest's. Let's see how they do this story...

[BruceLee]

To be fair, Takumi was a jerk to Azura from what little interaction we've seen. (He throws her Nohrian heritage in her face even before Mikoto dies, which suggests it's something he'd done often.) He'd also been behaving like a maniac and become their enemy, and Azura had plenty of time to steel herself to the idea that he might perish fighting them. As someone who played Conquest first, I certainly didn't mourn him and, I wouldn't expect the characters to either.

Azura, notably, did mourn when Ryoma died.

But I do agree that I'd have liked to see more reflection in general. It feels like most of the character work in Fates has to either be inferred, or is in supports.

Ignoring Takumi, I find it strange how Kamui is so much more torn up by the invasion of Hoshido than Aqua. She shows little to no emotion to the fact that she's getting all of the people killed/hurt that took care of her/treated her well.

Makes her come of as ungrateful and selfish.

I'm just starting with Birthright now (after playing Conquest), and immediately Birthright!Corrin calls out Garon for what he is, a "coward and lair". He even foreshadows in the decision scene that Garon is no longer human and is pure evil! What is this?!

...I also see how people dislike Xander on calling Corrin a traitor, being blind and remaining loyal to Garon. This is going to suck.

Also, there's more people in Birthright's version of Ch 6 than Conquest's. Let's see how they do this story...

From what i've seen of Birthright they are basically two different characters. Don't know if that makes Hoshido!Corrin a good character or a less shitty character than Nohr!Corrin.

Edited March 21, 2016 by BruceLee

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

Corrin seems like a different character in general on all three routes, i'm not sure if thats a good thing or a bad thing.

[Thane]

Corrin seems like a different character in general on all three routes, i'm not sure if thats a good thing or a bad thing.

On paper that's a good thing, since his personality should reflect his choice and his circumstances.

In reality, however, he remains very much the same character and suffers from the same problems in terms of writing. It's worth mentioning though that since Birthright is the simplest path simply because it doesn't take any risks, Corrin has fewer opportunities to come across as an idiot.

[Emblem Blade]

Corrin seems like a different character in general on all three routes, i'm not sure if thats a good thing or a bad thing.

If Corrin was the same on all three routes I would not see them as a great person without a lot of convincing from others. Corrin in Revelations has more nerves for trying to get both sides to listen although...

1) From the start of the game it takes about 16 chapters for the entire Hoshido Army to join. Takes Scarlet to send some more sense into Ryoma after the eldest brother of Hoshido still has some doubts about what his younger sibling has told him despite Sakura and Takumi being present to support Corrin's reason.

2) From the start of the game it takes about 17 chapters for the entire Nohr Army to join. Xander still doesn't believe Corrin entirely even after Azura explains the entire reason for the conflict at the start of the game and in Chapter 13, he will even try to kill Corrin and his own sister, Camilla for betraying Nohr even with the two of them (Corrin and Camilla) trying to justify their cause. Only good side for Corrin here is mostly gaining the whole Nohr Army (or the huge bulk of the best warriors) and having Leo understanding the truth before Xander does.

Corrin got more daring and they show some more intelligence although their decisions could be questionable at times although they usually had a reason for their actions this time around.

[Shadow Knight]

Corrin seems like a different character in general on all three routes, i'm not sure if thats a good thing or a bad thing.

Idk, he seems different but to me that is just bc he doesn't choose to hear Garon's reason for

using him to kill Mikoto

And even then there is plenty of Corrin stupidity to go around.

[NekoKnight]

On paper that's a good thing, since his personality should reflect his choice and his circumstances.

In reality, however, he remains very much the same character and suffers from the same problems in terms of writing. It's worth mentioning though that since Birthright is the simplest path simply because it doesn't take any risks, Corrin has fewer opportunities to come across as an idiot.

But he made the smartest choice of choosing Hoshido.

I think the protagonist should be the same at their core in each route, but they should start to develop as the circumstances change. In Birthright, Kamui's character is consistent with what we see in the early chapters when he defends Suzukaze and Rinka; selfless and heroic. Nohrrin on the other hand forgets these values and switches to clenched-fists-in-pockets-wait-until-it's-safe "heroism".