Karis Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 Corrin should have used the moment he was reunited with his siblings to tell Ryoma that something is wrong with Garon. Judging by Garon's ruthless and seemingly unprovoked atrocities towards Hoshido, I doubt he would have a hard time believing it. Hell, tell Xander too, but much earlier! If Xander is claiming that their father isn't the man he used to be, why wouldn't he believe you about Garon being a slime monster? If he regards you as family, he should do as much. Because I bet the writers would make Ryoma demand proof that the MU can't give because of Valla. And telling Xander would cause the same thing as what happens seconds before actually revealing the truth. Heck, Xander even threatens to kill you if you were wrong despite him having those doubts that he mentions right after Corrin proves they're right. The Conquest writers did a lot to make sure nobody would ever side with Corrin without actual proof. Ice Tribe leader? Prove that you won't kill any of his men (by beating them unconscious). Scarlet? Prove you don't kill needlessly (though this fails due to The Hanssacre). Every instance of "Maybe you truly aren't like the rest" is after proving it. There is no blind faith in these games. Not even Corrin has it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
semolinaro Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 (edited) Because I bet the writers would make Ryoma demand proof that the MU can't give because of Valla. And telling Xander would cause the same thing as what happens seconds before actually revealing the truth. Heck, Xander even threatens to kill you if you were wrong despite him having those doubts that he mentions right after Corrin proves they're right. The Conquest writers did a lot to make sure nobody would ever side with Corrin without actual proof. Ice Tribe leader? Prove that you won't kill any of his men (by beating them unconscious). Scarlet? Prove you don't kill needlessly (though this fails due to The Hanssacre). Every instance of "Maybe you truly aren't like the rest" is after proving it. There is no blind faith in these games. Not even Corrin has it. That is so unbelievably dumb. I could maybe understand Kilma's case since you ARE enemy royalty who came to quell revolutionaries, so there's more of a need to prove yourself. But the Valla thing is such a stupid plot mcguffin it makes me cringe. The Valla curse is only a plot ploy to force characters to keep their mouth shut so the story moves forward in a certain direction, even if the direction is beyond ridiculous. By all accounts, Ryoma should have no problem believing you about Garon, Valla or not. He has bore witness to his brutal ways and the unprovoked conquering of his country, I don't think the mention of some magical realm would be necessary to convince him that Garon is a monster. But, of course, if the writers will it to be so, then it will be so. *sigh* Edited March 5, 2016 by semolinaro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NekoKnight Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 Corrin should have used the moment he was reunited with his siblings to tell Ryoma that something is wrong with Garon. Judging by Garon's ruthless and seemingly unprovoked atrocities towards Hoshido, I doubt he would have a hard time believing it. Hell, tell Xander too, but much earlier! If Xander is claiming that their father isn't the man he used to be, why wouldn't he believe you about Garon being a slime monster? If he regards you as family, he should do as much. Golly, I didn't even think about that. He literally had everyone he needed to convince IN ONE ROOM and he used that chance to chuckle about the siblings interacting. Should have brought an extra crystal ball to that party. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceLee Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 Corrin should have used the moment he was reunited with his siblings to tell Ryoma that something is wrong with Garon. Judging by Garon's ruthless and seemingly unprovoked atrocities towards Hoshido, I doubt he would have a hard time believing it. Hell, tell Xander too, but much earlier! If Xander is claiming that their father isn't the man he used to be, why wouldn't he believe you about Garon being a slime monster? If he regards you as family, he should do as much. Honestly Xander is a lost cause. After everything he sees his father do he still threatens to kill you if you're wrong about his daddy being a monster. The writers fucked him up real good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
semolinaro Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 Honestly Xander is a lost cause. After everything he sees his father do he still threatens to kill you if you're wrong about his daddy being a monster. The writers fucked him up real good. I feel like Shin Kibayashi did a drive-by on IS. Feels like he barfed out a script without any revision so he could go on his way with his other work, and IS took it and ran because they gave him too much credit as a professional writer. Either that or they raped his original ideas. I'm not ruling out either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katryn Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 Honestly Xander is a lost cause. After everything he sees his father do he still threatens to kill you if you're wrong about his daddy being a monster. The writers fucked him up real good. Agreed, because... Slimer or no slimer, after all the crap Garon has done he is a monster no matter how you look at it. There are many characters I'll try to find good in within the story; he's not one of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maybe Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 Corrin should have used the moment he was reunited with his siblings to tell Ryoma that something is wrong with Garon. Judging by Garon's ruthless and seemingly unprovoked atrocities towards Hoshido, I doubt he would have a hard time believing it. Hell, tell Xander too, but much earlier! If Xander is claiming that their father isn't the man he used to be, why wouldn't he believe you about Garon being a slime monster? If he regards you as family, he should do as much. this is honestly what I thought the moment I reached that chapter like, I'm not saying you should've essentially joined Hoshido, because that's dumb, but the game shouldn't put you in a case where that's the most logical choice and even more, it shouldn't ignore that logical choice at this point, what would you even lose if you and your little army joined the Hoshido siblings and whatever army they have? (they can't be alone, can they?) you could like go with them to hoshido bring the hoshido army and your group and kill garon! i'm assuming there would be minimal repercussions compared to "lets invade hoshido and kill people so that garon will stop killing people from hoshido" again, i'm not saying that they should've done this, because joining the army you didn't join would be stupid, but it shouldn't place you in a situation where that's possible and the most logical choice, and just not do it thus, i'd say conquest corrin is at least slightly an idiot for not even TELLING ryoma about garon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abysswalker25 Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 As I've said earlier, I'm replaying Conquest, and chapter 18 left a sour taste in my mouth. All the siblings are gathered, and Corrin and Azura are super happy over the tense atmosphere; Corrin's like "hyuck hyuck hyuck, Xander and Ryouma sure are similar!" and...the two start having a vanity contest? What? Aren't they at war? And then you have to save the four siblings because it's apparently wrong to only target four people - Corrin could've ended the war right then and there, but didn't. I suppose since his family was involved, he felt guilty and that it'd be easier to invade the whole bloody nation instead. I know Garon is the target, but Corrin sure seems to forget that, opting instead to poke fun of his older brothers rather than, I don't know STRATEGIZING? Talk to them as normal people? Try to explain his motivations? Anything at all? To be fair, if Corrin let the royals die there, Garon would've just continued to invade Hoshido. And people would still complain anyways about him going along with a dishonorable trap. I wish the crystal thing wasn't involved. Garon could've been so much better if he wasn't stupid-evil and was actually looking out for his country. But that has been said a million times by now. Also in regards to a post someone made about Kaze assassinating Garon, he has Dragonskin so Lethality wouldn't work. :p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceLee Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 (edited) Agreed, because... Slimer or no slimer, after all the crap Garon has done he is a monster no matter how you look at it. There are many characters I'll try to find good in within the story; he's not one of them. The way things are, if Garon wasn't a slime and was just doing all of those things by his own will, Xander would be ok with that. Which isn't consistent with the game portraying Xander as an honorable and lovable guy. When i see Xander give his speech about peace at the end of Conquest i just facepalm. And people would still complain anyways about him going along with a dishonorable trap. Not if it's handled well. I wouldn't mind Conquest being a dark path(making Kamui dark as well), as long as the game acknowledges it. Edited March 5, 2016 by BruceLee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berret Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 Not if it's handled well. I wouldn't mind Conquest being a dark path(making Kamui dark as well), as long as the game acknowledges it. I just don't trust IS on handing any form of writing well anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abysswalker25 Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 Not if it's handled well. I wouldn't mind Conquest being a dark path(making Kamui dark as well), as long as the game acknowledges it. But they weren't going that route. They didn't want Corrin to be dark. It would be out of the blue if he did it without setting it up earlier. It would be interesting to play a more ruthless Corrin, since I enjoy that side of them. (Best seen during the Kanna recruitment chapter). I just don't trust IS on handing any form of writing well anymore. This gets me thinking, if they make another FE game will they get another outside writer, or did they finally draw up some ideas of their own for FE 15? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
semolinaro Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 (edited) The way things are, if Garon wasn't a slime and was just doing all of those things by his own will, Xander would be ok with that. Which isn't consistent with the game portraying Xander as an honorable and lovable guy. When i see Xander give his speech about peace at the end of Conquest i just facepalm. Not if it's handled well. I wouldn't mind Conquest being a dark path(making Kamui dark as well), as long as the game acknowledges it. I would LOVE to play as a dark Corrin, so long as it's justified. And it so easily could have been. Birthright mentions that Nohr suffers from a poor crop yield and limited resources due to their geography whereas Hoshido is blessed with a good harvest and plenty of it to go around. Had Garon's intentions been more driven by his need to sustain his kingdom, and having Corrin sympathize with that, we could have an awesome character who realizes he must do bad things in order to bring good to his kingdom. Who cares if he was born in Hoshido, Nohr has always been his home. Most people adopted from other countries disregard their birth country as their nationality. I have a friend who was adopted from China as a baby, but she considers herself 100% Canadian and would never go back to China. In fact I've always liked to fantasize in my own scenario that Garon killed Sumeragi during a discussion about trade talks, and when he refused to open up negotiations with Nohr over their resources, Garon killed him and stole Corrin to provoke war between the countries so he could get what he needed. There would be more justification to listen to Garon if he had valid motives other than being a moustache twirling slime dad , and it would be far more tragic to cut down your blood siblings who perhaps don't fully understand the nature of Nohr's situation and see you as evil when, in reality, you're just doing the right thing for Nohr's people (especially since Hoshido refused to help). Edited March 5, 2016 by semolinaro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thane Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 To be fair, if Corrin let the royals die there, Garon would've just continued to invade Hoshido. And people would still complain anyways about him going along with a dishonorable trap. Corrin's goals at that point in time are: 1) Kill Garon. 2) End the war. The first one would've been easier with Hoshido or at least his siblings backing him up. Why would they believe him? What would the Nohrian siblings say? Well, that's a damn good question because the game never even tries to include the other characters in that stupid plan - your guess is as good as mine, but anything's better than making fucking jokes when you've actually got the opportunity you've been waiting for. The second option could easily have been fulfilled by killing the Hoshidans, if they went down that route. The only one left (that we know of, obviously) to defend Hoshido would be Yukimura, but given how just a vanguard can take care of his forces, I doubt his influence and power can be compared to the siblings combined. Corrin has also said that he has to walk a dark path and will simply have to bear his siblings hating him, but apparently killing those four is harder for him than to invade a peaceful nation. And another thing, who would get happy over seeing both families hating each other in the middle of a war? Nohrrin keeps crying about Garon's methods and the war but he takes the most convoluted ways possible of stopping it all. I also can't believe he doesn't take the opportunity to simply TALK to the Hoshidan siblings at the very least - like, even ignoring everything about his inefficiency and hypocrisy, I can't believe they didn't spend more time on characters actually being characters - does Corrin even acknowledge Hinoka at all? I don't think he does, and she doesn't bring their last two fights up, not even that Corrin spared all of her men. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRob Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 Is this the joke scene you guys are talking about? Because apparently this is only in the localization. Or perhaps the LOLcalization, as I swear they messed up the story further by cramming jokes everywhere. I'm here for the Game of Throne shit going on, not to watch a comedy, IS. It's like IS did to Fates what LittleKuriboh did to yugioh, make a parody of it. Avatar: "It's just that, despite your differences, the two of you are quite similar in some ways." Xander: "Avatar! There's no need to insult me like that! I could not be anything like this sorry excuse of a prince." Ryoma: "For once, I agree with Prince Xander. To start, I'm far more attractive." Xander: "Beg pardon?!" I once thought of a sceanario where Corrin joined Hoshido, but overheard that he wasn't related to them by blood. Distraught at the fact he threw away his family for what was a lie, the vengeful Corrin tried to escape back to Nohr, but is stopped by Mikoto. Vengeful, and hateful, Corrin attacks and decapitates her believing to have lied about being his mother, and brings her head to Garon to prove his loyalty. Is that any better than what we got for Conquest? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanima Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 Is this the joke scene you guys are talking about? Because apparently this is only in the localization. Or perhaps the LOLcalization, as I swear they messed up the story further by cramming jokes everywhere. I'm here for the Game of Throne shit going on, not to watch a comedy, IS. It's like IS did to Fates what LittleKuriboh did to yugioh, make a parody of it. Avatar: "It's just that, despite your differences, the two of you are quite similar in some ways." Xander: "Avatar! There's no need to insult me like that! I could not be anything like this sorry excuse of a prince." Ryoma: "For once, I agree with Prince Xander. To start, I'm far more attractive." Xander: "Beg pardon?!" I once thought of a sceanario where Corrin joined Hoshido, but overheard that he wasn't related to them by blood. Distraught at the fact he threw away his family for what was a lie, the vengeful Corrin tried to escape back to Nohr, but is stopped by Mikoto. Vengeful, and hateful, Corrin attacks and decapitates her believing to have lied about being his mother, and brings her head to Garon to prove his loyalty. Is that any better than what we got for Conquest? I believe that in the japanese version Ryouma claimed that his face was prettier. So no this isn't a localization goof. There are places where the translators felt the need to insert humour into the game (especially side stuff like Belka/Saizo C support, and Hisame's character), but I don't think it is an outright parody. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRob Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 I believe that in the japanese version Ryouma claimed that his face was prettier. So no this isn't a localization goof. There are places where the translators felt the need to insert humour into the game (especially side stuff like Belka/Saizo C support, and Hisame's character), but I don't think it is an outright parody. I was more or less using a hyperbole to express that I felt IS went too far with putting humor into the localization at times. Though apparently they didn't this time, and that just makes it worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abysswalker25 Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 Is this the joke scene you guys are talking about? Because apparently this is only in the localization. Or perhaps the LOLcalization, as I swear they messed up the story further by cramming jokes everywhere. I'm here for the Game of Throne shit going on, not to watch a comedy, IS. It's like IS did to Fates what LittleKuriboh did to yugioh, make a parody of it. Avatar: "It's just that, despite your differences, the two of you are quite similar in some ways." Xander: "Avatar! There's no need to insult me like that! I could not be anything like this sorry excuse of a prince." Ryoma: "For once, I agree with Prince Xander. To start, I'm far more attractive." Xander: "Beg pardon?!" I once thought of a sceanario where Corrin joined Hoshido, but overheard that he wasn't related to them by blood. Distraught at the fact he threw away his family for what was a lie, the vengeful Corrin tried to escape back to Nohr, but is stopped by Mikoto. Vengeful, and hateful, Corrin attacks and decapitates her believing to have lied about being his mother, and brings her head to Garon to prove his loyalty. Is that any better than what we got for Conquest? I think Corrin cut off Mikoto's head with all that -edge-. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Water Mage Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 I once thought of a sceanario where Corrin joined Hoshido, but overheard that he wasn't related to them by blood. Distraught at the fact he threw away his family for what was a lie, the vengeful Corrin tried to escape back to Nohr, but is stopped by Mikoto. Vengeful, and hateful, Corrin attacks and decapitates her believing to have lied about being his mother, and brings her head to Garon to prove his loyalty. Is that any better than what we got for Conquest? Actually, Corrin didn't really join Hoshido because they were his/her birth family. Corrin pretty much says that the reason he/she joins Hoshido was because he/she wants to do the right thing. They being his/her birth family didn't affect much the decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRob Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 Actually, Corrin didn't really join Hoshido because they were his/her birth family. Corrin pretty much says that the reason he/she joins Hoshido was because he/she wants to do the right thing. They being his/her birth family didn't affect much the decision. Oh, my bad. I think I got confused with the blood or bond theme the ads for the game are going with right now, and I came up with it when I was trying to think of a way to make that plot twist of Corrin not being blood-related, allowing them to marry their siblings not cheap, irrelevant and/or contradictory towards the game's premise. Seriously, it's just pointless and detracts from the story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alazen Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 The 2nd Fates trailer framed the Big Choice as that of Blood VS Loyalty. Both that and pre-release sources which listed Corrin as a birth sibling of the Hoshido royals leaves doubt whether the trailer was fibbing or if there was a change in plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NekoKnight Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 I think Corrin cut off Mikoto's head with all that -edge-. "Mom had it coming. She was pissing me off." xXBloodEdgeXxKamui I've actually heard far edgier ideas for a darker Kamui... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frelia Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 (edited) Corrin should have used the moment he was reunited with his siblings to tell Ryoma that something is wrong with Garon. Judging by Garon's ruthless and seemingly unprovoked atrocities towards Hoshido, I doubt he would have a hard time believing it. Hell, tell Xander too, but much earlier! If Xander is claiming that their father isn't the man he used to be, why wouldn't he believe you about Garon being a slime monster? If he regards you as family, he should do as much. This is most definitely what Corrin should have done. Even if things didn't go right at least it would have been more productive than going "My two families tensions towards each other is so cute and so similar to sibling bickering teehee!" Come on Corrin. Edited March 6, 2016 by Frelia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ebony Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 "Mom had it coming. She was pissing me off." xXBloodEdgeXxKamui I've actually heard far edgier ideas for a darker Kamui... All the music that plays in battle is an infinite loop of "let the bodies hit the floor." This is why Nohr was chosen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warchiefwilliams Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 (edited) Regarding edgy!Kamui. And in regards to Nohr!Kamui thinking that his two families being together producing an tense atmosphere that can be sliced with a dull butter knife is oh so cute and adorable (The God-Emperor is not amused) To be completely honest, given the ideas floating around not just on this tread, but on this forum in general, you would think that IS would at least be aware of what the public expected regarding Conquests plot, and what that would require of its protagonist. Edited March 5, 2016 by warchiefwilliams Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceLee Posted March 6, 2016 Share Posted March 6, 2016 I often wonder if all of our criticism even reaches IS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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