So why exactly do people call Conquest Corrin an idiot?(Conquest spoilers)

[BruceLee]

Someone get this guy a Nobel Prize for humor.

Aw shucks, BruceLee! You sure do know how to make someone feel appreciated!

Sadly, I've had eight hours of class today, which is quite a lot when the classes are given in your third language, so I'm beat and probably won't bring my usual vigor, but let's see here, Nohr chapter 16...

By that point, Corrin has already:

Confused Azura with all the other singers with bright teal hair that reach their legs (we've already covered that one).

Asked Camilla why Garon is a stupidpants after Hans starts murdering people en masse.

Told a Hoshidan general that they can't trade peace for one person's death which is straight up falls since that is literally the plot of Birthright, and it makes Conquest Corrin come across as the biggest hypocrite I've ever seen in gaming.

Technically gambled with Elise's life when fighting Ryouma - that might be an unpopular opinion or me misunderstanding something, so I'll just qualify that as half an argument.

And of course, the big one: immediately accepted Azura's nonsensical plan which involves the invasion of a peaceful nation - so much for trading lives for peace.

You're about halfway through, and it'll just get stupider from here, and Corrin's hypocrisy, powerlessness and idiocy will just get more and more apparent..

Whenever i see these posts from you it takes a load off my mind, because i don't need to say anything else anymore ;)

inb4 nohr apologists defend all of those things

[MCProductions]

is it safer to say that azula is the worst marth clone in the history of fire emblem?

just wondering.

I'd definitely agree with this, tho I was admittedly okay with her until I played Revelations

[spoiler=Earlygame Revelations Spoilers]Where she reveals a BUNCH OF SHIT that she should told Cory in flipping 15 Conquest

That said, I still consider Conquest's narrative good by FE standards, but I definitely think it could be better

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

I'd definitely agree with this, tho I was admittedly okay with her until I played Revelations

[spoiler=Earlygame Revelations Spoilers]Where she reveals a BUNCH OF SHIT that she should told Cory in flipping 15 Conquest

That said, I still consider Conquest's narrative good by FE standards, but I definitely think it could be better

well shit, i can't wait to get to that, but i need to finish conquest first

@Thane wait are those two characters spelled the same? if so then i just now noticed it, either that or i'm just so bad with her name because i never use her.

[Tolvir]

I'd definitely agree with this, tho I was admittedly okay with her until I played Revelations

[spoiler=Earlygame Revelations Spoilers]Where she reveals a BUNCH OF SHIT that she should told Cory in flipping 15 Conquest

That said, I still consider Conquest's narrative good by FE standards, but I definitely think it could be better

It had a really good concept behind it, I just think that it was rushed out, and that is why it has problems. I feel if they took an extra year or two for Fates to really develop the story, the background, and characters, it could of been one of the absolute best FE stories.

[Camilla]

I honestly don't think Conquest Corrin is stupid. Deciding to fix a problem by going to the root of it while also trying to guide the siblings who you grew up with on the right path just isn't a stupid decision imo. Honestly, I personally think it makes more sense for the avatar to go back to Nohr rather than staying in Hoshido. That way the avatar can remain loyal to the family they are actually close to, guide said family on the right path, and see first hand what is really going on in Nohr and figure out how to solve it from within. It felt to me like the avatar was trying to help both families and remain as loyal as possible to both in Conquest more so than in Hoshido.

As for the singer thing, that actually was kind of dumb so I can't really say anything about that.

It doesn't really bother me though, since I grew up watching Sailor Moon (the anime where "best friends" think that they look like totally different people depending on what outfit they are wearing).

[Time the Crestfallen]

is it safer to say that azula is the worst marth clone in the history of fire emblem?

just wondering.

You could say it. But I wouldn't call it safe since I know where you live and I will murder you if you don't take it back.

I'm only joking. Well, half-joking. Quarter joking...

You take it back right now or I will sacrifice your soul to Nyarlathoptep

[BruceLee]

well shit, i can't wait to get to that, but i need to finish conquest first

@Thane wait are those two characters spelled the same? if so then i just now noticed it, either that or i'm just so bad with her name because i never use her.

[spoiler=Azula]

[spoiler=Azura]

[Fallaner]

Why would I insult you? I really don't see what could possibly be funny with the way you approach my posts, especially when ignoring arguments in a thread for discussions, but that'd be no reason to belittle someone. I apologize if that's how I came across.

Apology accepted, however I don't see how I tend to ignore arguments. When I address an argument (either because I disagree or can refute said argument), I try to do so in full.

I don't intend to approach your posts in any sort of negative way, and I myself apologize if it seems as such. I don't have any sort of problem with you (That's somewhat hard to do when you have Aigis as your image and I like Aigis.) and simply am trying to poke fun at your own self-described behavior.

[IceBrand]

IS wanted Revelations to be the true story right? I suppose IS wanted to hint at these major plot points in Birthright and Conquest,and save the huge reveals unitl Revelations. Seems like a sloppy attempt in foreshadowing.

[Abysswalker25]

Conquest was overhyped as being dumb. There are stupid moments, don't get me wrong. But I feel like some people have just had bitterness seep into their very being and absolutely refuse to look at the story in any way other than negatively. All that can be said is for people to play the game for themself and make their own opinion of it rather than ignore it because some people on a forum didn't like it.

Whenever i see these posts from you it takes a load off my mind, because i don't need to say anything else anymore ;)

inb4 nohr apologists defend all of those things

Man. You really hate Nohr huh? It's almost Oboro levels. Maybe beyond that.

[Nintales]

Told a Hoshidan general that they can't trade peace for one person's death which is straight up falls since that is literally the plot of Birthright, and it makes Conquest Corrin come across as the biggest hypocrite I've ever seen in gaming.

To be honest though, I think that the reason he chose Nohr was that actually he did not believe in that version. So yeah, you can take it as the character maturing.

But it still doesn't explain any of the other flaws he has. The Azura thing is probably the most lulzworthy thing ever. (but maybe since the hall was big they couldn't see her really well... actually I just hope that they had trouble recognizing the person and that he couldn't see clearly, else that's beyond Team Rocket level)

And yeah, it's really weird that none of the children actually start doing something when Hans just commits mass massacre in front of their eyes. I mean come on!

And Azura should actually know that the same thing would happen if they go to Hoshido... And you just get so many stupid sacrifices for that goal.

The thing that could make this hilarious gameplay-wise is that she had in mind to invade Hoshido just to give Kamui more exp so he can fight Garondorf. But that's just ridiculous.

[MCProductions]

IS wanted Revelations to be the true story right? I suppose IS wanted to hint at these major plot points in Birthright and Conquest,and save the huge reveals unitl Revelations. Seems like a sloppy attempt in foreshadowing.

This may be the case, but thanks to Outrealms, all three routes are canon, so this would actually make things worse.

[Time the Crestfallen]

To be honest though, I think that the reason he chose Nohr was that actually he did not believe in that version. So yeah, you can take it as the character maturing.

But it still doesn't explain any of the other flaws he has. The Azura thing is probably the most lulzworthy thing ever. (but maybe since the hall was big they couldn't see her really well... actually I just hope that they had trouble recognizing the person and that he couldn't see clearly, else that's beyond Team Rocket level)

And yeah, it's really weird that none of the children actually start doing something when Hans just commits mass massacre in front of their eyes. I mean come on!

And Azura should actually know that the same thing would happen if they go to Hoshido... And you just get so many stupid sacrifices for that goal.

The thing that could make this hilarious gameplay-wise is that she had in mind to invade Hoshido just to give Kamui more exp so he can fight Garondorf. But that's just ridiculous.

Even if they don't recognise Azura by appearance, you'd think all the watery shenanigans and the fact that she wants you to sing with her a song would be a pretty big tip-off.

[Thane]

Apology accepted, however I don't see how I tend to ignore arguments. When I address an argument (either because I disagree or can refute said argument), I try to do so in full.

I don't intend to approach your posts in any sort of negative way, and I myself apologize if it seems as such. I don't have any sort of problem with you (That's somewhat hard to do when you have Aigis as your image and I like Aigis.) and simply am trying to poke fun at your own self-described behavior.

No worries, buddy. You'll have to work harder if you want to insult the insufferable know-it-all troll of Serenes.

Aigis IS pretty awesome, isn't she? Definitely the most human character in Persona 3.

As for this thread, however, it doesn't seem like there's much discussion going on; it seems to be more of an echo chamber.

To be honest though, I think that the reason he chose Nohr was that actually he did not believe in that version. So yeah, you can take it as the character maturing.

But it still doesn't explain any of the other flaws he has. The Azura thing is probably the most lulzworthy thing ever. (but maybe since the hall was big they couldn't see her really well... actually I just hope that they had trouble recognizing the person and that he couldn't see clearly, else that's beyond Team Rocket level)

And yeah, it's really weird that none of the children actually start doing something when Hans just commits mass massacre in front of their eyes. I mean come on!

And Azura should actually know that the same thing would happen if they go to Hoshido... And you just get so many stupid sacrifices for that goal.

The thing that could make this hilarious gameplay-wise is that she had in mind to invade Hoshido just to give Kamui more exp so he can fight Garondorf. But that's just ridiculous.

If Corrin matures until chapter 14, then they quickly regress afterwards considering they're fine with cutting a swath through an innocent nation in the name of peace. I can just imagine them going "why can't you see this is for your own good?!" as they murder Takumi's men, retainers and later people.

[spoiler=Conquest finale]But hey, no worries, Takumi forgives them.

[BruceLee]

Man. You really hate Nohr huh? It's almost Oboro levels. Maybe beyond that.

Hate it how? If you mean it's story, yes i very much dislike it. Hate is a strong word tho.

And i like Oboro, so i'll take that as a compliment.

[IceBrand]

To be honest though, I think that the reason he chose Nohr was that actually he did not believe in that version. So yeah, you can take it as the character maturing.

But it still doesn't explain any of the other flaws he has. The Azura thing is probably the most lulzworthy thing ever. (but maybe since the hall was big they couldn't see her really well... actually I just hope that they had trouble recognizing the person and that he couldn't see clearly, else that's beyond Team Rocket level)

And yeah, it's really weird that none of the children actually start doing something when Hans just commits mass massacre in front of their eyes. I mean come on!

And Azura should actually know that the same thing would happen if they go to Hoshido... And you just get so many stupid sacrifices for that goal.

The thing that could make this hilarious gameplay-wise is that she had in mind to invade Hoshido just to give Kamui more exp so he can fight Garondorf. But that's just ridiculous.

Well to fair, didn't Hans say any something about how stopping him would be the same as disobeing an order from Garon?

[MCProductions]

Well to fair, didn't Hans say any something about how stopping him would be the same as disobeing an order from Garon?

He did, and Corrin NEEDS to keep Garon's trust if he intends to reform the country with as few fatalities as possible.

[Fallaner]

No worries, buddy. You'll have to work harder if you want to insult the insufferable know-it-all troll of Serenes.

Aigis IS pretty awesome, isn't she? Definitely the most human character in Persona 3.

As for this thread, however, it doesn't seem like there's much discussion going on; it seems to be more of an echo chamber.

Aigis is awesome. It's why she's one of only 2 P3 people in my PQ party. The other being Minato, simply because Player Character and gameplay purposes (one of the bosses can only be fought by both P4 and P3 PCs, which means you'd better hope to god both are levelled or you need to go grind, and grind, and grind. Also Minato is absurdly powerful in PQ)

I bet I could EVENTUALLY find a way to insult you. Either that, or the forest will burn down from me trying too, just to see the result. Though I imagine the forum would probably explode if I managed that.

Echo Chamber for which side though? I'm seeing a bunch of Avatar hate here that I can't fully understand. I get some of the reasons (Like the dang thing with the Dancer. I mean... the song alone should of been recognizable!) but others I frankly disagree with from a subjective standpoint.

[Pretty_Handsome]

I honestly don't think Conquest Corrin is stupid. Deciding to fix a problem by going to the root of it while also trying to guide the siblings who you grew up with on the right path just isn't a stupid decision imo. Honestly, I personally think it makes more sense for the avatar to go back to Nohr rather than staying in Hoshido. That way the avatar can remain loyal to the family they are actually close to, guide said family on the right path, and see first hand what is really going on in Nohr and figure out how to solve it from within. It felt to me like the avatar was trying to help both families and remain as loyal as possible to both in Conquest more so than in Hoshido.

As for the singer thing, that actually was kind of dumb so I can't really say anything about that.

It doesn't really bother me though, since I grew up watching Sailor Moon (the anime where "best friends" think that they look like totally different people depending on what outfit they are wearing).

I disagree as Garon tried to kill Corrin 3 times already at that point and his siblings ignore it. Mikoto died protecting Corrin, Corrin remembers the kidnapping and murder of their loving father and Xander knew the entire time that Corrin was not their sibling but a Hoshidan Hostage yet told no one up to that choice.

Makes more sense to run away or join Hoshido.

Edited March 4, 2016 by Pretty_Handsome

[Azure Sen]

Well part of that is Azura's fault. She should of presented it when ALL the Royals were present, as opposed to just Corrin, or at the very least both Corrin and Gunter (which would of made him more prevalent to the plot) which I am pretty sure Xander would listen to if he said your father is f'ed up.

EDIT: While I personally believe Nohr!Corrin gets too much hate, he does get pretty dumb sometimes, and its more IS's horrible job of trying to give him flaws more than anything.

Like I said, both Nohrrin and Nohrzura are to blame in this instance, it's just much more noticeable for Nohrrin because of how quickly they jump from "peace peace peace!" to "let's invade Hoshido so our siblings won't feel bad about killing their brutal dictator father!"

Bolded: I think it's the opposite. Nohrrin gets dumber when IS is trying to portray him as a hero while still having Nohr be the bad guys.

Conquest was overhyped as being dumb. There are stupid moments, don't get me wrong. But I feel like some people have just had bitterness seep into their very being and absolutely refuse to look at the story in any way other than negatively.

Dismissing people's mostly legitimate complaints about Conquest by calling them bitter really isn't helping your case.

He did, and Corrin NEEDS to keep Garon's trust if he intends to reform the country with as few fatalities as possible.

So Hoshido casualties don't count?

Edited March 4, 2016 by AzureSen

[Nintales]

He did, and Corrin NEEDS to keep Garon's trust if he intends to reform the country with as few fatalities as possible.

Excepted Kamui could have just gotten away if Camilla (there isn't Leo yet, right?) acted. They could have just killed Ganz, said he disobeyed some order and gotten away with it. He is just a soldier while they're the princes. They have the right of life and death on any of their subjects, if you look at how Nohr is organized.

Edited March 4, 2016 by Nintales

[IceBrand]

It appears Corrin eventually kills a lot of Hoshido lives during Conquest. Does he admit to or feel guilty for robbing them of their lives and betraying his beliefs later on?

Edit: Doesn't Iago watch Corrin's everystep like he did in Birthright? If that was true wouldn't Iago catch Hans death very quickly?

Edited March 4, 2016 by Majestic Paladin

[Thane]

Aigis is awesome. It's why she's one of only 2 P3 people in my PQ party. The other being Minato, simply because Player Character and gameplay purposes (one of the bosses can only be fought by both P4 and P3 PCs, which means you'd better hope to god both are levelled or you need to go grind, and grind, and grind. Also Minato is absurdly powerful in PQ)

I bet I could EVENTUALLY find a way to insult you. Either that, or the forest will burn down from me trying too, just to see the result. Though I imagine the forum would probably explode if I managed that.

Echo Chamber for which side though? I'm seeing a bunch of Avatar hate here that I can't fully understand. I get some of the reasons (Like the dang thing with the Dancer. I mean... the song alone should of been recognizable!) but others I frankly disagree with from a subjective standpoint.

[spoiler=Best girl]

I am eternal. The thanian prophecy will come true, and one day everyone will feel what I feel towards the story of this video game, and then the universe can be at peace.

Well, we could go through answering the recurring questions dealing with Nohr Corrin:

Why go back to Nohr and the oppressive, tyrannical father who tried to murder you, spitting in the face of your real father and mother's sacrifices, not to mention the siblings who are left devastated after the whole ordeal.

Why immediately accept Azuras plan? Why not talk to the siblings?

Why surprised at Garon being a homicidal maniac?

Why so hypocritical? I mean, they call a Hoshidan captain out on wanting to kill one man to stop a war (which is what Birthright is all about), but then decides to casually go on a killing spree.

And so on. This has been discussed a thousand times before, and it seems it'll be discussed a thousand times more, but these are a few of the complaints towards Corrin in this route.

[Abysswalker25]

Hate it how? If you mean it's story, yes i very much dislike it. Hate is a strong word tho.

And i like Oboro, so i'll take that as a compliment.

Oh no, I like Oboro too. I just like my FE references.

Honestly the whole thing boils down to what you think is better. Betraying the family that loved and cared for you despite your situation because your father is an insane asshole and inflicted massive harm to the family you were taken from, or siding with the siblings who loved you and treat you like one of their own at the cost of working for said insane king and break the hearts of the family who really wanted you to return home to them.

I really liked the interactions between all of the Nohrian siblings myself and it heavily influenced my choice to pick Conquest over Birthright. Leo as I've stated many times is probably my favorite sibling out of all of them. While you might think his actions dubious, he really does try to save as many people as he can when he won't get snitched out by Iago or Hans, or when Garon is around to execute him if he screws up. Plus it helps he kills the most annoying prick in the entire game.

[Fallaner]

Excepted Kamui could have just gotten away if Camilla or Leo acted. They could have just killed Ganz, said he disobeyed some order and gotten away with it. He is just a soldier while they're the princes. They have the right of life and death on any of their subjects, if you look at how Nohr is organized.

However, Ganz technically is speaking for the king in regards to orders.. Due to how Nohr is organized, Ganz CAN'T really be disobeying an order, he's giving them from the King, aside from that, he likely has his loyal forces who would quickly sell you out i'd imagine. They are most likely more loyal to him than you.