If Generation 1.5 Characters had support conversations with others

[Tolvir]

I kind of agree with this idea in of Fates being rushed in general. Reina, Scarlet, and Shura are recruited just like any other character but for some reason they weren't given supports? It doesn't make any sense because there's nothing about those characters which makes them different than the others.

It doesnt make any sense at all, which is why I think Fates was rushed all together. There are so many things that werent done that doesnt make sense outside of the possibility of it being rushed.

[Thane]

It doesnt make any sense at all, which is why I think Fates was rushed all together. There are so many things that werent done that doesnt make sense outside of the possibility of it being rushed.

There are a few possible other contrbuting factors, like executive meddling and poor communication between the various teams working on the game. If I were a betting man I'd say several plot points were removed at least from Conquest fairly late into development. I've got zero proof for this, but it would make sense given the awful excuses and plot contrivances we end up with.

Apollo Justice, the fourth installment in the main series of Ace Attorney, is infamous in the community for essentially being two halves as opposed to one whole, which was because the Capcom bigwigs wanted Shu Takumi, the game's director and the series' creator, to include the main character from the previous trilogy, which clashed with his original vision of the game. As such, the first and last cases are amazing since they most likely focus on the original plot of the game while the two middle ones could best be described as filler and builds up the other half of the story, and this decision has, in some ways, messed up the series essentially irreparably at this point. Still a good game, but if it had had a consistent quality like the first case, then it would've been my favorite game of all time - I urge everyone with an hour to spare to just watch a walkthrough of it or something, it's that good.

Like I said, I've got no proof that's what happened to Fates, I'm just saying there are a lot of reasons for why something like this could happen. For all we know, they didn't bother to go through what Kibayashi planned to be a rough draft, or they're simply incompetent writers. We may never find out, and that bothers me to no end.

Edited March 21, 2016 by Thane

[Selena4Lyfe]

According to some folks I've read here, the writings been pretty hit-and-miss for most of the series, though going downhill for the last two installments...

Was anything like this an issue for Awakening?

[NeonZ]

According to some folks I've read here, the writings been pretty hit-and-miss for most of the series, though going downhill for the last two installments...

Was anything like this an issue for Awakening?

Yes, although not to this extent. Tiki, Say'ri, Anna, Basilio and Flavia were part of the main game and could only get S rankings with the avatar, but Tiki could support 4 other characters, while the others had one other support option besides the avatar. Here, in Fates, we have Gunter, Fuuga and Flora with one other support, but characters like Izana, Scarlet and Shura only can support the avatar.

However, Awakening had 6 characters unlocked through spotpass at end-game (5 of them were characters seemingly killed in the story that reappear alive in those extra chapters), and those only had supports with the Avatar too. Still, at least those character clearly weren't part of the main game, unlike the ones in Fates, where they join just like any other character but have a very limited selection for seemingly no reason.

[Thane]

According to some folks I've read here, the writings been pretty hit-and-miss for most of the series, though going downhill for the last two installments...

Was anything like this an issue for Awakening?

I think Awakening and Fates suffer from the same problem, namely that the writers bit off more than they could chew; the difference between Awakening and Fates, however, is that the developers got overconfident due to the success of Awakening. Awakening tried to honor the series' legacy but failed to do so in a consistent way and the story ended up fragmented as a result, while Fates tried doing "Awakening but bigger and better!" but obviously didn't have the competence to handle a diverging story.

If you ask me though, the writing has always been Fire Emblem's weak point - character interactions have usually been solid but anything beyond that is normally pretty lackluster. I still consider Blazing Sword to be the second worst written installment of the games that have been localized, and I can't for the life of me remember a single scene in Sacred Stones that doesn't involve Lyon or L'arachel. I can see why so many people like the Tellius series as well - and I do too - but it's got its fair share of problems as well - I'll never understand why so many people like Ashnard, for one, and the Blood Pact has been discussed to death.

Again, this is just my opinion, but there's so much doom and gloom in this fandom especially regarding the two latest installments that I can't help but feel like some people's rage have blinded them to the earlier installments' flaws.

And before anyone calls me a hypocrite for saying that other people are gloomy when I'm 100% concentrated nerd rage when it comes to Fates' story, I'd like to point out that I've never said that Awakening and Fates killed the entire bloody franchise; I'm excited for the series' growing success and just hope that Intelligent Systems learn from their mistakes. I also don't hate the game, but rather the horrible writing, and I try to give credit where credit is due.

And with that rant concluded, I'm off to bed.

[Selena4Lyfe]

I think Awakening and Fates suffer from the same problem, namely that the writers bit off more than they could chew; the difference between Awakening and Fates, however, is that the developers got overconfident due to the success of Awakening. Awakening tried to honor the series' legacy but failed to do so in a consistent way and the story ended up fragmented as a result, while Fates tried doing "Awakening but bigger and better!" but obviously didn't have the competence to handle a diverging story.

If you ask me though, the writing has always been Fire Emblem's weak point - character interactions have usually been solid but anything beyond that is normally pretty lackluster. I still consider Blazing Sword to be the second worst written installment of the games that have been localized, and I can't for the life of me remember a single scene in Sacred Stones that doesn't involve Lyon or L'arachel. I can see why so many people like the Tellius series as well - and I do too - but it's got its fair share of problems as well - I'll never understand why so many people like Ashnard, for one, and the Blood Pact has been discussed to death.

Again, this is just my opinion, but there's so much doom and gloom in this fandom especially regarding the two latest installments that I can't help but feel like some people's rage have blinded them to the earlier installments' flaws.

And before anyone calls me a hypocrite for saying that other people are gloomy when I'm 100% concentrated nerd rage when it comes to Fates' story, I'd like to point out that I've never said that Awakening and Fates killed the entire bloody franchise; I'm excited for the series' growing success and just hope that Intelligent Systems learn from their mistakes. I also don't hate the game, but rather the horrible writing, and I try to give credit where credit is due.

And with that rant concluded, I'm off to bed.

Good night, good sir. ^_^

[Dark Holy Elf]

People like Ashnard? In the community I hang out with he's treated as a memetically bad villain. Which is about what he deserves. One of the best parts of Radiant Dawn is it turns him into a patsy.

Apollo Justice, the fourth installment in the main series of Ace Attorney, is infamous in the community for essentially being two halves as opposed to one whole, which was because the Capcom bigwigs wanted Shu Takumi, the game's director and the series' creator, to include the main character from the previous trilogy, which clashed with his original vision of the game. As such, the first and last cases are amazing since they most likely focus on the original plot of the game while the two middle ones could best be described as filler and builds up the other half of the story, and this decision has, in some ways, messed up the series essentially irreparably at this point. Still a good game, but if it had had a consistent quality like the first case, then it would've been my favorite game of all time - I urge everyone with an hour to spare to just watch a walkthrough of it or something, it's that good.

Really? That's interesting to read about. Personally, I absolutely detested the last case, more than any other case in the series.

-It shoved the main cast off to the side in favour of Phoenix's revenge/redemption quest. I liked Apollo, Trucy, and Ema; let them shine!
-The villain was awful. First of all, he's already behind bars, so the game loses some drama. Second, the confrontation with him is weak, he babbles about the masses controlling the courts and you shut him down in one testimony. Considering some of the amazing villain confrontations this series has, this is extremely disappointing. Third, his motivation is either extremely boring, and/or has undisclosed secrets which were being saved for a sequel (those black psyche-locks) but of now we'll never know. Fourth, his relationship with his freaking brother is barely explored, you could be forgiven for forgetting that they are related.
-The flashback part of the case. Dear god. Phoenix acting super-arrogant! Gumshoe being all "I'm gonna get you, pal!" Are these even the same people?
-All the time-travelling evidence nonsense at the end.
-I could rant about how the Grammaryes, especially Zak, are horrible people, and the game doesn't really seem to get this at all, which definitely rubs me the wrong way. I assume you're a big enough fan of the series to be familiar with "Zak Grammarye is a jerk". It's funny to reflect on, but it wasn't funny at the time.

I agree with you overall, and I think Apollo Justice was a mess for the reasons you described. I also thought the first case was good! The middle cases being filler isn't a problem in and of itself, as the first three games all had fillerish cases in the middle... the difference is those cases were usually oustanding standalone, and developed the cast well, while the middle cases of AJ were messes (especially that concert one).

And... I've definitely read that executive meddling messed with that game, especially the part you mentioned about putting Phoenix in it (and this is part of what ruins the last case to me, so... I'm surprised you feel differently). I've also read theories that Shu Takumi was depressed and/or angry at the time the game was written, and it certainly reads like it. As much as I liked the original trilogy I'm really glad they went in a fresh direction with the more recent games.

[Matt-hue]

Because they have no platonic opposite-sex supports except for siblings and parent-child.

I know that, but it feels kinda unfair. Awakening had Basilio and Flavia, at the very least, so it's kinda sad that there aren't any platonic male/female supports this time around. Why would Joker want to talk to him while Flora and Felicia wouldn't? :/

[NekoKnight]

People like Ashnard? In the community I hang out with he's treated as a memetically bad villain. Which is about what he deserves. One of the best parts of Radiant Dawn is it turns him into a patsy.

While not a great villain by himself, I think his philosophy on life (the strong eat the weak) was good for world building. Him allowing people of talent, regardless of birth, to take high military positions makes it seem like he could be a popular monarch, within his own country.

[MitoRequiem]

I think Awakening and Fates suffer from the same problem, namely that the writers bit off more than they could chew; the difference between Awakening and Fates, however, is that the developers got overconfident due to the success of Awakening. Awakening tried to honor the series' legacy but failed to do so in a consistent way and the story ended up fragmented as a result, while Fates tried doing "Awakening but bigger and better!" but obviously didn't have the competence to handle a diverging story.

If you ask me though, the writing has always been Fire Emblem's weak point - character interactions have usually been solid but anything beyond that is normally pretty lackluster. I still consider Blazing Sword to be the second worst written installment of the games that have been localized, and I can't for the life of me remember a single scene in Sacred Stones that doesn't involve Lyon or L'arachel. I can see why so many people like the Tellius series as well - and I do too - but it's got its fair share of problems as well - I'll never understand why so many people like Ashnard, for one, and the Blood Pact has been discussed to death.

Again, this is just my opinion, but there's so much doom and gloom in this fandom especially regarding the two latest installments that I can't help but feel like some people's rage have blinded them to the earlier installments' flaws.

And before anyone calls me a hypocrite for saying that other people are gloomy when I'm 100% concentrated nerd rage when it comes to Fates' story, I'd like to point out that I've never said that Awakening and Fates killed the entire bloody franchise; I'm excited for the series' growing success and just hope that Intelligent Systems learn from their mistakes. I also don't hate the game, but rather the horrible writing, and I try to give credit where credit is due.

And with that rant concluded, I'm off to bed.

I agree with this so much lol. That's why I never get tripped up over FE stories they just all seem weak imo.

People will praise Tellius at least in the FB group I'm apart of not too sure about in general. I even saw a guy said Radiant Dawn's story is the "pinnacle of video game story telling" LOL Which yeah no.

I feel like JRPGs in general have a problem with story telling.

[Thane]

People like Ashnard? In the community I hang out with he's treated as a memetically bad villain. Which is about what he deserves. One of the best parts of Radiant Dawn is it turns him into a patsy.

Really? That's interesting to read about. Personally, I absolutely detested the last case, more than any other case in the series.

-It shoved the main cast off to the side in favour of Phoenix's revenge/redemption quest. I liked Apollo, Trucy, and Ema; let them shine!

-The villain was awful. First of all, he's already behind bars, so the game loses some drama. Second, the confrontation with him is weak, he babbles about the masses controlling the courts and you shut him down in one testimony. Considering some of the amazing villain confrontations this series has, this is extremely disappointing. Third, his motivation is either extremely boring, and/or has undisclosed secrets which were being saved for a sequel (those black psyche-locks) but of now we'll never know. Fourth, his relationship with his freaking brother is barely explored, you could be forgiven for forgetting that they are related.

-The flashback part of the case. Dear god. Phoenix acting super-arrogant! Gumshoe being all "I'm gonna get you, pal!" Are these even the same people?

-All the time-travelling evidence nonsense at the end.

-I could rant about how the Grammaryes, especially Zak, are horrible people, and the game doesn't really seem to get this at all, which definitely rubs me the wrong way. I assume you're a big enough fan of the series to be familiar with "Zak Grammarye is a jerk". It's funny to reflect on, but it wasn't funny at the time.

I agree with you overall, and I think Apollo Justice was a mess for the reasons you described. I also thought the first case was good! The middle cases being filler isn't a problem in and of itself, as the first three games all had fillerish cases in the middle... the difference is those cases were usually oustanding standalone, and developed the cast well, while the middle cases of AJ were messes (especially that concert one).

And... I've definitely read that executive meddling messed with that game, especially the part you mentioned about putting Phoenix in it (and this is part of what ruins the last case to me, so... I'm surprised you feel differently). I've also read theories that Shu Takumi was depressed and/or angry at the time the game was written, and it certainly reads like it. As much as I liked the original trilogy I'm really glad they went in a fresh direction with the more recent games.

Fair enough, I won't pretend like it's the best case - or even best final case - in the series or that it doesn't have huge problems (time travel being one of them, like, what?), but the way they incorporate the subplot and overlying mystery of the game leads to such a huge payoff.

I think Shu Takumi meant to explore the final villain in later installments, although I suspect now with Yamazaki that it might either never happen or it's ruined forever due to Pearl's explanation of the black psychelocks in the Dual Destinies.

I can't stand the new direction hough. Dual Destinies simply wasn't written well, with Athena hamfisted into the story and stealing all the spotlight from Apollo (poor guy can't catch a break), convoluted explanations and finales and for many reasons I consider the final case to be the single worst case in the series due to how much in fails in every aspect - horrible, horrible villain, reliance on Ace Attorney clichés, Apollo's subplot is thrown out the window, several huge plot holes (you mean to tell me the murderer was caught on tape and the police didn't even rewind the security footage for seven years, even with Edgeworth leading the investigation? Not even the Ace Attorney police is that stupid), and so on.

Now they're tacking on even more unnecessary bullshit, like a fictional kingdom that relies on magic powers in their courts - they keep trying to raise the stakes but that's not what made Ace Attorney great in the first place. What that series need are good mysteries and a hell of a lot of charm, not more supernatural elements. Oh well, here's to hoping they won't ruin Maya, and actually give Polly (and Trucy) the screen time he desperately needs. Since Athena isn't on the box art this time around, I can only hope that his half of the game will actually be about him.

While not a great villain by himself, I think his philosophy on life (the strong eat the weak) was good for world building. Him allowing people of talent, regardless of birth, to take high military positions makes it seem like he could be a popular monarch, within his own country.

Sure, that's all well and good but here's my main problem with the guy: he's self-defeating. I mean, another problem I have with him is that he's yet another cliché bad guy, but he makes such stupid moves all the time that allows Ike and co. to defeat him in the first place - that means he goes against his very own creed. He's not strong, he's a big bully on steroids.

That's one of my many problems with Nergal as well. Aside from Ryouma talking about being jealous of Corrin's royal traits when he was bloody four years old, I believe my least favorite line in the entire series is when Athos states that Nergal could've killed them but didn't, since that encapsulates everything wrong with that game's story.

[saisymbolic]

Thane, Dark Holy Elf, why you gotta hate on my Kristoph Gavin? I do agree with you, though, on the Ace Attorney front.

Oh gods, it still hurts that we aren't getting The Great Ace Attorney...

In terms of the Tellius series, I am somewhat biased against it as it was what introduced me to FE in the first place. The story was generally average; it had its moments. I still think the story and how it was executed was very good for its time. While Ashnard was rather lackluster and a psychopath simply to be one and the Black Knight was mysterious for the sake of being mysterious, I did find myself taken with Petrine and Shiharim for reasons I really don't want to elaborate because I am a lazy ass.

I love Fates but, as we can generally agree, it has a lot of elements that could have been done better. I, for one, wanted to see the Flora x Jakob ship get ported via Flora getting friend-zoned. Unrequited love, FTW. Honestly, Jakob hates everyone except Kamui—why is he able to romance so many people? As for Crimson and Ryoma, I would have them preferably be platonic—not because I don't see the chemistry between them but more because I see them as platonic soul mates. LOL. I'm probably the only one that sees it like that.

Yukimura, Orochi and Reina most definitely should have gotten supports with each other to flesh out Sumeragi-Oda-Dad and Mikoto—they are both important characters but we have scant development about them. Wasted potential and wasted character space, in my opinion.

[Thane]

Thane, Dark Holy Elf, why you gotta hate on my Kristoph Gavin? I do agree with you, though, on the Ace Attorney front.

What are you talking about? Kristoph Gavin is fucking amazing. He had too little time to shine but what we saw of him was excellent. His only problem are his motives, which I'm sure were meant to be expanded upon in a later installment, but that might not happen now because of Capcom and Yamazaki.

[saisymbolic]

What are you talking about? Kristoph Gavin is fucking amazing. He had too little time to shine but what we saw of him was excellent. His only problem are his motives, which I'm sure were meant to be expanded upon in a later installment, but that might not happen now because of Capcom and Yamazaki.

Oh. Okay. LOL. I was mistaken. Kristoph was a villain with class, which is a villain I can appreciate. You are right, though; his motives were... Yeah. I squinted really hard at Apollo Justice while playing it due to a combination of several things. Overall, I enjoyed it but... I tend to be rather optimistic towards games these days.

Talking about this makes me want to ironman playthrough all the Ace Attorney games.

[Thane]

Oh. Okay. LOL. I was mistaken. Kristoph was a villain with class, which is a villain I can appreciate. You are right, though; his motives were... Yeah. I squinted really hard at Apollo Justice while playing it due to a combination of several things. Overall, I enjoyed it but... I tend to be rather optimistic towards games these days.

Talking about this makes me want to ironman playthrough all the Ace Attorney games.

I'm incredibly harsh towards stories but I'm usually incredibly lenient on gameplay. It has to be either really boring or really bad if I'm to really get annoyed. Same thing with graphics - that doesn't mean I ignore problems or think that mediocrity is the same thing as games that play super well, just that I'm less of an angry dick about it.

That said, I still really like Apollo Justice and prefer it over Justice for All. The first case of Apollo Justice is definitely one of my absolute favorite video game stories (or momens? That's one long "moment") and it blows my mind that it doesn't receive more love within the community.

[saisymbolic]

The first case was my favorite as well, in Apollo Justice. Nostalgia has the very first game as a whole as my favorite, though—I think my all-time favorite case would have to be the added fifth case. There is just something about Damon Gant and his breakdown animation... Kristoph's breakdown animation, as well, was one of my favorites. Actually, I could make a list of all the breakdowns I love. Breakdowns were the best part, in my opinion. And the sound effects. And the music.

I also have to add that I do indeed enjoy going on threads and seeing your responses to them, in terms of Fates. You always have something interesting to add—and, no, I'm not sucking up to you. LOL.

Edited March 21, 2016 by SaiSymbolic

[Thane]

The first case was my favorite as well, in Apollo Justice. Nostalgia has the very first game as a whole as my favorite, though—I think my all-time favorite case would have to be the added fifth case. There is just something about Damon Gant and his breakdown animation... Kristoph's breakdown animation, as well, was one of my favorites. Actually, I could make a list of all the breakdowns I love. Breakdowns were the best part, in my opinion. And the sound effects. And the music.

I also have to add that I do indeed enjoy going on threads and seeing your responses to them, in terms of Fates. You always have something interesting to add—and, no, I'm not sucking up to you. LOL.

We can just agree to Ace Attorney being awesome in general, and encourage everyone here to play at least the original trilogy, since it's easily obtainable.

Why, thank you! I'm very happy to hear that!

[Dark Holy Elf]

I can't stand the new direction though. Dual Destinies simply wasn't written well, with Athena hamfisted into the story and stealing all the spotlight from Apollo (poor guy can't catch a break), convoluted explanations and finales and for many reasons I consider the final case to be the single worst case in the series due to how much in fails in every aspect - horrible, horrible villain, reliance on Ace Attorney clichés, Apollo's subplot is thrown out the window, several huge plot holes (you mean to tell me the murderer was caught on tape and the police didn't even rewind the security footage for seven years, even with Edgeworth leading the investigation? Not even the Ace Attorney police is that stupid), and so on.

[...]

That's one of my many problems with Nergal as well. Aside from Ryouma talking about being jealous of Corrin's royal traits when he was bloody four years old, I believe my least favorite line in the entire series is when Athos states that Nergal could've killed them but didn't, since that encapsulates everything wrong with that game's story.

The amount Nergal's plot power fluctuates scene-to-scene is insane.

Re the rest:

I generally disagree on Dual Destinies; one of the things I really liked about the game is how the three protagonists did a good job of sharing the spotlight, each taking time in different shoes (and one of them was even a woman! This is not insignificant, gender issues are one of the main things which keeps me from gushing over Ace Attorney more than I already do). I certainly didn't feel Athena stole the spotlight at all, while she gets a fair bit of screentime due to being the new character with the freshly explored backstory, the game spends a lot of time on the other two as well, and in particular lets you play as them (especially Phoenix) more than as her.

I also really liked the villain of the last case, but to each their own. They're definitely a style villain and that isn't going to work for everyone (the game doesn't even try to give them motives beyond being a spy). I also really liked their previous identity, which helped! The game certainly isn't perfect, though; in particular I thought the third case's drama-bombs were rather silly and the triple confession (which is immediately recanted a few hours later, what the fuck?) might be the most idiotic scene in the series.

I'm curious as to what you thought of the Edgeworth game(s), as well? I was certainly including them in my comment, since my understanding is that all three games share at least one major writer. I was a big fan of AAI1 (I thought it was both a big return to form for the series AND a much-needed evolution of a formula that risked going stale), and thought that AAI2 was good too, for all that it had a plot which was rather too convoluted for its own good.

While not a great villain by himself, I think his philosophy on life (the strong eat the weak) was good for world building. Him allowing people of talent, regardless of birth, to take high military positions makes it seem like he could be a popular monarch, within his own country.

I've seen the "strength is everything" villain a few too many times to have much respect for it as interesting, I'll admit, so I wasn't disposed to like Ashnard at base.

But Ashnard is especially maddening because his actions in the late stage of the game are complete nonsense. He sits in Crimea and lets you conquer Daein and doesn't seem to care. Like... what? In what world does this make sense? Okay, okay, Ashnard is supposed to be insane, I guess that explains his reaction, if not in a way that is satisfying. But it does not explain why his army would put up with it. Everyone from his generals down to his common soldiers has friends and family back home in Daein; do you think they'd just sit idly by while their homeland gets sacked because "Ashnard considers whereever he currently is to be his kingdom" (actual in-game line)? The game doesn't even begin to address why Ashnard doesn't get a dozen knives in his back and Bryce isn't leading the troops home and/or hammering out peace with Begnion immediately after Chapter 21, or worse, asks us to believe that Ashnard is so "badass" that his troops wouldn't do this out of fear/respect for him.

It's extra frustrating because just a couple chapters earlier Path of Radiance was sensitively showing the terrible effects of Ike's invasion of Daein in Talrega, but all that gets swept aside for an incredibly stupid endgame arc.

Oh. Okay. LOL. I was mistaken. Kristoph was a villain with class, which is a villain I can appreciate. You are right, though; his motives were... Yeah. I squinted really hard at Apollo Justice while playing it due to a combination of several things. Overall, I enjoyed it but... I tend to be rather optimistic towards games these days.

Talking about this makes me want to ironman playthrough all the Ace Attorney games.

Kristoph had style and class at base but that's literally all he had. His motives make no sense, his non-relationship with his brother feels like a gaping plot hole, and his ranting on the stand in the final case is just pathetic and made me lose what little respect I had left for him by that point. He's a really bad villain, and I say this as someone who wanted to like him! I mean, the Mia figure as a villain? How cool! But no, he's honestly a character who feels more like a Fire Emblem villain than an Ace Attorney villain, and I mean that in the worst way possible.

It's absoltely embarassing that Takumi/whoever wanted to save his motivation for a second game. There's zero excuse for having him being the main villain of two cases and still holding those cards to your chest as sequel-bait. Yeah, I doubt we'll ever get that resolution now, but I don't think after Apollo Justice and its tepid reception that many people acutally want to see it; I certainly don't.

(It may sound like I hate Apollo Justice. I don't, for all that I think it's decisively the worst game in the series. I do agree with the praise for the first case generally, and I think the new core cast it introduced was very solid, and even a bad Ace Attorney game is still absolutely worth playing for me. But... it's the only game in the series I haven't replayed, and it's probably going to stay that way.)

[Selena4Lyfe]

...How long before the conversation veers back to these 1.5 tier fates peoples that the creators didn't likewise ? xD

[saisymbolic]

Well, I think it has already been established which supports generally everyone wants. At this point, we'd only be reiterating.

[Locke087]

The amount Nergal's plot power fluctuates scene-to-scene is insane.

Nergal's power fluctuates because it is not his own, Nergal never earned any real power, Therefore he gains power as he takes it from others and loses it as he expends it. Frankly this one of the better excuses in a video game for a villain not to personally attack the hero all the time.

Sure, that's all well and good but here's my main problem with the guy: he's self-defeating. I mean, another problem I have with him is that he's yet another cliché bad guy, but he makes such stupid moves all the time that allows Ike and co. to defeat him in the first place - that means he goes against his very own creed. He's not strong, he's a big bully on steroids.

That's one of my many problems with Nergal as well. Aside from Ryouma talking about being jealous of Corrin's royal traits when he was bloody four years old, I believe my least favorite line in the entire series is when Athos states that Nergal could've killed them but didn't, since that encapsulates everything wrong with that game's story.

Nergal is overconfidence in his abilities and when Athos attacks him and it barely hurts him he assumes that now nothing can hurt him now, so as an act of mercy to a old friend he spares him.

Really FE 7's story real problem is that of conveyance it has really good story it just doesn't explain itself very well, It is actually why I started my essay in the first place. But frankly at this point because of the essay I been working on I have an almost authorial bias the games story so what do I know.

But I digress, now on the actual subject...

Basically all the support everyone already said with special note to Ryoma and Scarlet... and more supports for Flora...

Edited March 25, 2016 by Locke087

[Selena4Lyfe]

Well, I think it has already been established which supports generally everyone wants. At this point, we'd only be reiterating.

Ah. Carry on then.