Bad/Horrible support conversations!

[Thor Odinson]

I like Rinkah, but I have issues with some of her supports. The Ryoma/Rinkah support is one of the few supports that doesn't bother me. He actually manages to talk to her and help her out without questioning her people's ways of doing things or forcing change on her. The Saizo/Rinkah and Kagero/Rinkah supports are pretty good too. The Kaze/Rinkah support would have been much better if they didn't just talk about candy.

I think the problem is definitely less Rinkah herself and moreso how others treat her. A lot of the other ones see her being aggressively introvert due to her culture and just don't want to leave her alone. Rinkah's support suffer from the everyone-supports-everyone syndrome---if she wasn't forced to talk to all these people she doesn't actually get along with and the writers has to come up with something, she doesn't even really have to talk to them. Characters like Keaton and Jakob have no chemistry with her at all, and if she wasn't forced to talk to them by mechanics she wouldn't even be in this situation.

I think Rinkah's female supports on average are better than her male supports, and the limited pool probably helped a lot there.

I also like her Hinata support and Takumi supports. Not as much as Ryoma's, of course.

[Frelia]

I think the problem is definitely less Rinkah herself and moreso how others treat her. A lot of the other ones see her being aggressively introvert due to her culture and just don't want to leave her alone. Rinkah's support suffer from the everyone-supports-everyone syndrome---if she wasn't forced to talk to all these people she doesn't actually get along with and the writers has to come up with something, she doesn't even really have to talk to them. Characters like Keaton and Jakob have no chemistry with her at all, and if she wasn't forced to talk to them by mechanics she wouldn't even be in this situation.

I think Rinkah's female supports on average are better than her male supports, and the limited pool probably helped a lot there.

I also like her Hinata support and Takumi supports. Not as much as Ryoma's, of course.

I agree with you. The way others treats her is most definitely the big issue that I have with a lot of her supports. She would have a much easier time if the game didn't have everyone-supports-everyone syndrome. I'll check out the Hinata and Takumi supports later on.

Edit: I just read the Rinkah supports with Hinata and Takumi and they really are good. Thanks for pointing those two supports out.

Edited March 30, 2016 by Frelia

[Roxachronc]

A lot of the children supports feel so meh, I was hoping something like Morgan(M) x Nah, I am not saying Awakening was stupidly amazing but IMO the children there felt much more developed.

I really disagree with how they managed characters with great potential like Soleil, her character is so confusing because it is fully implied(and even said by some characters) that she wants to be romantically involved with girls, but then she is unable to marry one and somehow can get married to men, I dont know if she is straight, lesbo, bi,etc; then she is portraited as a cool girl but instead her convos shows that she is a stalker.

That said I prefer a lot more the non-children characters here than in awakening, Felicia x Corrin is nice and feels somewhat natural, Camilla x Corrin was a wasted opportunity, they could have talked about how Camilla got to love Corrin to that extend, but instead we got just a random trip.

[saisymbolic]

The problem with Soliel is that they based her entire character around a single gimmick. Even then, they handled her character badly. Take a look at how they handled Forrest and then look at how they handled Soliel. One child was handled wonderfully, in my opinion, while the other was handled terribly.

I find it okay that she liked "cute" girls. I honestly thought the fact that she found girls cute was...well, cute. Then, I read some of her supports with the other girls. The one she has with Ophelia is terrible and the one she has with Sophie is just as bad. One has her essentially harassing a girl while the other has the other girl forcing her into competition just to make her stop flirting with her.

I wanted to like Soliel. I still like her, in a way, but they just handled her terribly.

Edited March 31, 2016 by SaiSymbolic

[Ebony]

The problem with Soliel is that they based her entire character around a single gimmick. Even then, they handled her character badly. Take a look at how they handled Forrest and then look at how they handled Soliel. One child was handled wonderfully, in my opinion, while the other was handled terribly.

I find it okay that she liked "cute" girls. I honestly thought the fact that she found girls cute was...well, cute. Then, I read some of her supports with the other girls. The one she has with Ophelia is terrible and the one she has with Sophie is just as bad. One has her essentially harassing a girl while the other has the other girl forcing her into competition just to make her stop flirting with her.

I wanted to like Soliel. I still like her, in a way, but they just handled her terribly.

hhey man thats my daughter you're talking to

I agree about these. Tbh I've kinda given up and idk who to marry her off too. Maybe Dwyer.

Soleil you could have been best girl. :c

still love you daughter

[JasonsOrigin]

The fact that most of Felicia's supports is basically just her being berated just makes me like her more. Still trying even after all the beating.

Had I been in her shoes I would have let slipped laxatives or even better, antidiarrheals, into the boiling water for tea...I mean, because I'm so clumsy and all.

Edited March 31, 2016 by JasonsOrigin

[InsaneNoire]

And whats wrong with people shipping two female characters together for fun? Nothing. Its the internet, and they're not real.

^^

[InsaneNoire]

Is no one gonna talk about AvatarxElise? The cliche "waaaaaahhhh I just wanna protect you! How can I become stronger? I'm such a burden waaaaaaaahhhhh!!!"

Yeah, someone may have already posted that, but I couldn't bring myself to read through all the junk that I thought was gonna become another Soleil thread.

[saisymbolic]

This isn't another Soliel thread. Don't worry.

As for Elise, I ignored that support because it was just another case of Corrinmui D-riding. Now it is moe little sister turn.

Let the image burn into your brain.

I am in the arduous process of obtain all the supports in Revelations and it is tiring. It is getting to the point to where I mainly just look at their portraits and sort of glance at the dialogue sometimes. Many of the supports in Fates is filler--not good filler, either. Like, the world building kind of filler. Just bad filler. I don't want to compare it to a certain series that is currently in filler hell but I will admit that it is mind numbing how mundane and...filler-y the supports are. And I do know the supports are technically optional--but I need to fill out that support log or I will be unfulfilled for eternity.

Eh. This support system hurts me.

[VantagePoint]

Azura x Laslow isn't offensively bad, it's just a major disappointment compared to the original, but that partly has to do with NA Laslow/Inigo being more the stereotypical casanova type with his insecurities taking a large backseat to everything else. But the major reason as to why that support is so disappointing is that many lines were outright cut from the original or ltered to have little or no meaning. I've done a write up on it on gamefaqs (Which is down, which is why I'm here), but basically, it boils down to the removal of a crucial line in their B support, which removes a lot of the emotional depth and nuances of the supports and the changes from the Laswald to Laslow transitioning making him come off as very wooden in the supports. Azura's confession is pretty weak here too.

[Truffa]

A lot of the children supports feel so meh, I was hoping something like Morgan(M) x Nah, I am not saying Awakening was stupidly amazing but IMO the children there felt much more developed.

1000% agree here, the childrens, the majority, are pretty weak, and their supports don't help so much, Foleo and his support was well written and his character is amazing, but others, like Soleil don't, especially with the stupids platonic s support.

Also, the game itself say that Soleil loves man and womans, but the supports don't!

I wanted a OwainxMorgan 2.0, not this *cries*

[HylianTiki]

It feels good to know i'm not the only person who is not ok with Camilla x Corrin supports. To me there is nkthing "doting" about her overbearing, seductive behavior. You're her sibling for god's sake like i know it's fan service but its gross. Everytging about her demeanor feels insestuous to me and I hate it.

Solieil's supports. ESPECIALLY the ones with Ophelia and her mother.

Scrolling down the comments I saw someone say that they didn't like Silas x Azura. I'll actually devend that one. It's not a favorite but I don't think it's bad.

Niles and Peri is very disappointing. Two people who can talk about all sorts of disturbing things end up debatibg whether or not Niles broke into her house. Then they fall in love.

To quote Niles himself, "Disappointing."

Jakob x Felicia.

Jakob x Setsuna ALMOST made it to this list but their C-A is SO entertaining that it's worth it, plus i don't give two ****s about Dwyer so i don't care who his mother is

That's from the ones i can recall.

[Reachfan2]

Honestly, for me, it's real hard to find a good support husband for Setsuna. She's the laziest person in the game and not in the lovable way.

[Abvora]

Honestly, for me, it's real hard to find a good support husband for Setsuna. She's the laziest person in the game and not in the lovable way.

I got so fed up with digging through her lackluster supports that I eventually just threw her to Hayato. I don't care about him, I don't care about her, and I don't care about their kid, so it all works out.

[Tsuky]

Hmmm, the ones I have problems with all got some mention, I think...

Most of Jakob and Azama's supports: they have a few good ones, and the rest are all terrible. Thanks for being a**holes, you guys.

Corrin/Hana: I'm not sure if the convo is the same for M!Corrin and F!Corrin, but with F!Corrin, Hana just rages at you for no good reason.

Silas/Elise: the sister thing is just weird, but at least it is slightly improved upon compared to the Japanese version. Actually, I haven't found any Silas support I liked...

Gunther/F!Corrin's S support: ewwwwww, why ruin the great C-A support?

Ryoma/Xander and Ryoma/Camilla: wasted opportunities.

Asugi/Shiro and Asugi/his mom: sigh, why is Asugi such an a**hole, when Gaius is such a chill bro?

Saizo/Hinoka: one of the worst buildups to the S support.

Saizo/Beruka's C support: because it doesn't exist.

and... the Japanese version of Forrest/Soleil: this one deserves a special mention because it managed to disgust me the whole way through. I really wanted to hug Forrest and punch Soleil in the face. Don't think I've ever read a support that awful (I haven't read the Ophelia/Soleil one, but it seems like that one is terrible as well). This happened to be the first Soleil support that I read, and it just left me with a bad impression of her character. Maybe it's because the Japanese one sucked so much, I actually liked the localized C-A supports, but the S support went back to being weird again...

There are probably some that I left out, but those instantly came to mind.

[Sunwoo]

Corrin/Hana: I'm not sure if the convo is the same for M!Corrin and F!Corrin, but with F!Corrin, Hana just rages at you for no good reason.

They're the same regardless of gender.

[Tsuky]

They're the same regardless of gender.

Goodness, I don't want to know how they managed an S support out of that...

[Sunwoo]

Goodness, I don't want to know how they managed an S support out of that...

Magically. And through the power of Kamui's boner/everyone else getting boners for Kamui/having to support everyone AVATAR POWERS GO

[Thor Odinson]

Ryoma/Xander and Ryoma/Camilla: wasted opportunities.

Okay I'm going to actually defend Ryoma/Xander because I used to think the same until I actually went and read it again--and this is before localization and I think this one of the supports Treehouse did an excellent job on--but I remember when my initial impression was "wtf, this isn't gay enough, where's all the UST" but I read it again when I did the Ryoma support analysis thing with a stronger understanding of both characters and I was able to appreciate it so much more. A Leokumi-esque support would not have done them justice, although it's perfect for the little bros. Their over the top, childish-even animosity towards each other worked a lot better when they're enemies, as seen in Nohr 18---but now they're allies, when Ryoma offered his hand and Xander took it, they better start behaving like adults.

I saw it as two leaders, burdened with the pain of their past and experiences, strugging to work through all their hang ups with the other side. We see Ryoma trying really hard in the B even though he's not really quite ready, considering all that happened with how Nohr killed his dad and stepmom, to do the right thing. It was a quieter sort of support they gave each other.

It's not the kind of support that really jumps out at you so I don't blame anyone from being underwhelmed at first because I had the same initial impression, and the progression is pretty simple, but with a deeper understanding of Ryoma and Xander both I found the support to have a lot of emotional value to it.

tl;dr suffering niichans fuel my masochism

Ryomilla, though---hell, it could be about mostly similar things, but if generalised to their siblings instead of focused so hard on Corn (Corn's mentioned like 20+ times there compared to the single digit ones in all other ryoma supports where corn's even mentioned outside of the one with each other) I think it could be pretty strong. A support of their different "parenting" methods towards their siblings would be pretty cute.

[Tsuky]

Okay I'm going to actually defend Ryoma/Xander because I used to think the same until I actually went and read it again--and this is before localization and I think this one of the supports Treehouse did an excellent job on--but I remember when my initial impression was "wtf, this isn't gay enough, where's all the UST" but I read it again when I did the Ryoma support analysis thing with a stronger understanding of both characters and I was able to appreciate it so much more. A Leokumi-esque support would not have done them justice, although it's perfect for the little bros. Their over the top, childish-even animosity towards each other worked a lot better when they're enemies, as seen in Nohr 18---but now they're allies, when Ryoma offered his hand and Xander took it, they better start behaving like adults.

I saw it as two leaders, burdened with the pain of their past and experiences, strugging to work through all their hang ups with the other side. We see Ryoma trying really hard in the B even though he's not really quite ready, considering all that happened with how Nohr killed his dad and stepmom, to do the right thing. It was a quieter sort of support they gave each other.

It's not the kind of support that really jumps out at you so I don't blame anyone from being underwhelmed at first because I had the same initial impression, and the progression is pretty simple, but with a deeper understanding of Ryoma and Xander both I found the support to have a lot of emotional value to it.

tl;dr suffering niichans fuel my masochism

Ryomilla, though---hell, it could be about mostly similar things, but if generalised to their siblings instead of focused so hard on Corn (Corn's mentioned like 20+ times there compared to the single digit ones in all other ryoma supports where corn's even mentioned outside of the one with each other) I think it could be pretty strong. A support of their different "parenting" methods towards their siblings would be pretty cute.

Yeah, I realize that's what they were trying to go for, and I definitely see what you are saying, but did the C-A really have to be so repetitive... There are just better ways to go about it. Also, too much Corrin always annoys me.

With Ryoma and Camilla, I also think your idea would've made a cute C-A support, although the S support is still gonna be an a**pull :P I think this pairing will get on my nerves no matter what they do; also, Shiro with lilac hair... no.

Magically. And through the power of Kamui's boner/everyone else getting boners for Kamui/having to support everyone AVATAR POWERS GO

I guess Corrin is just that irresistible; everyone wants a piece of him/her.

Edited April 4, 2016 by Tsuky

[Thor Odinson]

I think in Ryoumarx's case it makes sense considering that's why they teamed up in the first place--and I wouldn't have minded some mentions of Corn if it wasn't so rampant in Ryoumilla. As much as I don't like Corn and ignoring the S rank your sibs bullshit since that's only there for fanservice, storywise Corn is their sibling, and in Ryoma's case is the one that got kidnapped in front of his eyes--which is why some mentions with Corn as a framing device doesn't really bother me, as long as it makes sense in context and not super overboard like Ryoumilla and Arthur/Cam and Silas/Cam.

Poor Cam. It's really mostly her supports that the devs made super Corn-centric, isn't it. I feel bad for her. Hell, even if her reason for being so doting on Corn was more fleshed out--seen a bunch of fancomics on that which gives good feels. Should've been in actual canon.

Edited April 4, 2016 by Thor Odinson

[Thane]

I guess Corrin is just that irresistible; everyone wants a piece of him/her.

Now, in the few times you can defend Corrin, this is a common video game trope, let's be honest. The problem comes when the entire story goes out of the way to do whatever's necessary to hype them up, excuse their actions or whatever, which is way too frequent, but I feel like video game romance in general tends to be...less than stellar, and that's not exclusive to Corrin.

Did I...did I just defend Corrin? Maybe I should go to bed early.

Edited April 4, 2016 by Thane

[Tsuky]

Now, in the few times you can defend Corrin, this is a common video game trope, let's be honest. The problem comes when the entire story goes out of the way to do whatever's necessary to hype them up, excuse their actions or whatever, which is way too frequent, but I feel like video game romance in general tends to be...less than stellar, and that's not exclusive to Corrin.

Did I...did I just defend Corrin? Maybe I should go to bed early.

Thane defending Corrin... Yeah, go to bed

I know, I wasn't expecting some epic romance from video games, but I think it's just the combination of Fate's story and the necessary evil of the current support system that makes Corrin's character especially irritating in this particular case.

[Thane]

Thane defending Corrin... Yeah, go to bed

I know, I wasn't expecting some epic romance from video games, but I think it's just the combination of Fate's story and the necessary evil of the current support system that makes Corrin's character especially irritating in this particular case.

On that, we can agree.

[FEHypeTrain]

I know it's fairly popular as a ship, but Saizo/Charlotte honestly. I don't mind couples that are sort of love-hate, and I enjoy when people see through Charlotte's act, but these two are pretty awful to each other. Charlotte genuinely can't stand him until the end of A, and why does she start to feel differently? Because he...noticed her work. Which yeah, nice enough. But that doesn't really have much to do with him as a person. Like, he won't shut up about her "rotten core," as if he can't truly see her good heart.

He doesn't learn about her motives, and has the nerve to say that no one else knows that she "has redeeming features." Pretty much the whole basis of their S support is, "You're pretty much stuck with me since no one else knows who you really are." "What." "No, really, I'm the only one who understands you, so if you don't hate me, marry me." Her reasons for choosing him were pretty weak, too, and she ends the support with more verbal abuse, even though he had made it clear how much it bothers him.

Like...I can't imagine a couple having worse chemistry. A shame, since I love them both individually.