Takumi

[Thane]

I'm saying is that, he has a natural bias towards takumi, and shows it by wearing a takumi avatar. So if you like X, your obviously not gonna understand too much about why someone dislikes X. Its hard to believe what someone says that shows a biasm. But it was more on the comical side, instead of belittling side.

He likes a character, so he's got an avatar of it and writes in a thread that specifically deals with said character, and for that you can't take anything he says seriously? Does that mean I shouldn't be allowed to discuss Aigis or Persona 3 in general, or what? Who came up with these rules?

Also, I'm pretty sure people who like a certain character are very well aware of why other people might not; Sunwoo even acknowledges when Takumi goes too far.

Again, if you have a problem with what he said, address his post, not his avatar.

Edited March 24, 2016 by Thane

[Shin]

I'm saying is that, he has a natural bias towards takumi, and shows it by wearing a takumi avatar. So if you like X, your obviously not gonna understand too much about why someone dislikes X. Its hard to believe what someone says that shows a biasm. But it was more on the comical side, instead of belittling side.

Unfortunately, due to your soldier member badge, I cannot take any of your comments about any combatants seriously. Hopefully your opinion will be corrected when you change it to the horse, as long as you stick to talked about non-mounted units! Alternatively, the duck might be a good choice too.

Protip: Being funny actually works better when jokes make sense.

From what I've gathered Takumi seems to be a fairly polarised character, mostly because of the differences between routes. I'd imagine there's aspects that don't come across in each of them.

[maybe]

I'm saying is that, he has a natural bias towards takumi, and shows it by wearing a takumi avatar. So if you like X, your obviously not gonna understand too much about why someone dislikes X. Its hard to believe what someone says that shows a biasm. But it was more on the comical side, instead of belittling side.

okay but here's an idea

what if their avatar is takumi, because they like takumi, because of the reasons they just said

[Sunwoo]

I'm saying is that, he has a natural bias towards takumi, and shows it by wearing a takumi avatar. So if you like X, your obviously not gonna understand too much about why someone dislikes X. Its hard to believe what someone says that shows a biasm. But it was more on the comical side, instead of belittling side.

So in other words you have no real rebuttal or argument so you have to resort to petty insults to even make a response. What a fine example of a human being

[CometChaserPleinair]

Unfortunately, due to your soldier member badge, I cannot take any of your comments about any combatants seriously. Hopefully your opinion will be corrected when you change it to the horse, as long as you stick to talked about non-mounted units! Alternatively, the duck might be a good choice too.

Protip: Being funny actually works better when jokes make sense.

From what I've gathered Takumi seems to be a fairly polarised character, mostly because of the differences between routes. I'd imagine there's aspects that don't come across in each of them.

sorry since ur not a jester i cant take ur comments on jokes srsly. And I dont really care for your example about combatants because I prolly wont be commenting on them so your whole example that your trying to point out is pretty moot.

The only time Takumi doesnt act like an ass is in birthright, but thats because he doesn't have much dialogue to begin with except about zola and the part where "his possession" is actually brought forth to light. In every other route he still acts like an ass, inferior complex or not.

@Thane, okay let me make it clearer, guy wears a TRUMP hat and says TRUMP isn't an ass in most cases, whats there to hate about him. (not to get into politics, just using this as an example)

[Shin]

sorry since ur not a jester i cant take ur comments on jokes srsly. And I dont really care for your example about combatants because I prolly wont be commenting on them so your whole example that your trying to point out is pretty moot.

I think you may have missed the point, which seems to be a recurring theme with you. If you think a fictional character's fan and a Trump supporter can be compared, I feel that you might need to hit the books on this one.

[Thane]

sorry since ur not a jester i cant take ur comments on jokes srsly. And I dont really care for your example about combatants because I prolly wont be commenting on them so your whole example that your trying to point out is pretty moot.

The only time Takumi doesnt act like an ass is in birthright, but thats because he doesn't have much dialogue to begin with except about zola and the part where "his possession" is actually brought forth to light. In every other route he still acts like an ass, inferior complex or not.

@Thane, okay let me make it clearer, guy wears a TRUMP hat and says TRUMP isn't an ass in most cases, whats there to hate about him. (not to get into politics, just using this as an example)

Again, you keep obsessing over something that has no bearing on the discussion; Sunwoo's views wouldn't drastically change if his avatar were of any other character.

Your example didn't make anything clearer. If anything, I'm more confused as to why you keep going against everyone telling you that you're being a prick and refuse to actually address the points made by Sunwoo.

[CometChaserPleinair]

So in other words you have no real rebuttal or argument so you have to resort to petty insults to even make a response. What a fine example of a human being

I can live with this, I never said I was a good example of a human being, but if you feel the need to compliment my humanity, I thank you for that gesture. And if you do feel insulted for someone calling you out for what they think is pretty biased written all over, its like your wearing a takumi fan club t-shirt, and being pro-Takumi, Im sorry that you feel insulted, despite no real insults thrown.

[Dark Holy Elf]

Insecurity sucks. It erodes your ability to see when people honestly love you. It makes you self centeredly assume that everyone is out to get you. It's a mental illness that doesn't produce hug babies, but suffering for the person themselves and those around him.

And bringing up Elise for this.. unless you never ever put her on a map you don't have a right to claim shooting at her was wrong. Because you aknowledged her as a combatant. A combatant enemy princess, who he didn't even shoot for real considering she was A-okay mere seconds after this.

I love Takumi and really identify with him, but have no trouble admtting that there are things he does wrong and that he shouldn't be cuddled for them. And the way you are saying that he isn't an accurate representation of someone with insecurity.. are you insecure yourself or know well someone who is insecure? Because me and a lot of other people who are struggling with issues similar to his think he is spot on.

Even if we fully accept Elise as a "combatant" which is a bit of an alarming label to place on a pure healer (I'm assuming she isn't reclassed), she is not trying to attack you at that time. Shooting her is not okay. Shooting Corrin in that scene isn't okay either, of course, but (a) at least Takumi has some specific issues with Corrin, so it's understandable, and (b) Corrin is at least holding a sword in that scene IIRC (and can turn into a reindeer dragon) so is a possible threat. Elise is not.

Sure, she was fine, so I guess those were play shots or something (then again people seem borderline invincible in cutscenes in this game unless they're sacrificing themselves), but it still sends an awful message about his personality. "If you argue with me, I will respond with violence."

Actually, I think that's part of why Takumi comes across as so awful on Conquest. Every time someone jumps to Corrin's defence his response is to violently (verbally or physically) turn against that person. He does that with Azura (yes, before his mother dies, though again after) and then again with Elise. Insecurity or no, that's a very unadmirable character trait.

I don't feel I deal with insecurity any more (or at least less than many), though I did when I was younger. You have my understanding and I think you're brave to speak up about it, because there is definitely a stigma against speaking out about one's own mental illnesses and similar issues, which in turn causes poeple to suffer in silence and not get help. So know that I have respect for you.

Having said that, it doesn't really change my opinion on the character. From a personal standpoint, I'll say there is someone very close to me in my life who does deal with insecurity in a big way. This person, as a note, doesn't like Takumi at all, which has likely helped shape my own opinion on the character.

[Sunwoo]

I can live with this, I never said I was a good example of a human being, but if you feel the need to compliment my humanity, I thank you for that gesture. And if you do feel insulted for someone calling you out for what they think is pretty biased written all over, its like your wearing a takumi fan club t-shirt, and being pro-Takumi, Im sorry that you feel insulted, despite no real insults thrown.

Who says that I'm insulted? I just find it sad that you can't even properly argue against points like an educated person and you have to make insults about someone you don't even know. I certainly hope you don't act like this in real life. Someone with your temperament wouldn't have any friends.

[CometChaserPleinair]

Who says that I'm insulted? I just find it sad that you can't even properly argue against points like an educated person and you have to make insults about someone you don't even know. I certainly hope you don't act like this in real life. Someone with your temperament wouldn't have any friends.

if you don't feel insulted, why do you label them as insults? Where have I insulted you except implying you were biased? However your actually the first one to throw an actual insult. If you don't think my opinion on whether you are being biased about takumi is right, then say so "educated" person it's fine to disagree with opinions and give a valid reason why I am wrong. There is no need to get angry in a thread over about Takumi.

Edited March 24, 2016 by CometChaserPleinair

[maybe]

@Thane, okay let me make it clearer, guy wears a TRUMP hat and says TRUMP isn't an ass in most cases, whats there to hate about him. (not to get into politics, just using this as an example)

okay but

what if the guy has the trump hat

because he thinks trump is a good person

[JasonsOrigin]

Someone with your temperament wouldn't have any friends.

*Looks at CometChaserPleinair with an, "I'm your bro" face.

And a thumbs up.

[joshcja]

*Looks at CometChaserPleinair with an, "I'm your bro" face.

And a thumbs up.

You would with that Silias avatar >.>

[CometChaserPleinair]

okay but

what if the guy has the trump hat

because he thinks trump is a good person

THEN we'll just have to kill him!

[Emblem Blade]

I can live with this, I never said I was a good example of a human being, but if you feel the need to compliment my humanity, I thank you for that gesture. And if you do feel insulted for someone calling you out for what they think is pretty biased written all over, its like your wearing a takumi fan club t-shirt, and being pro-Takumi, Im sorry that you feel insulted, despite no real insults thrown.

This is off-topic due to that post: Just because someone has a picture of a character, an avatar of that character or wears a shirt that remotely shows that character doesn't mean that they are obsessed with said character. I know I got a complaint from Sunwoo before but that was due to my rather poor nature on arguments when I go head-over-heals with getting into conversations. Just because Sunwoo has an avatar picture of Takumi doesn't mean that he is obsessed with him, he might just like how the picture looks and wants to use it.

Now back to getting on-topic, Takumi is one of Fates' more realistic characters who acts like people in reality who have suffered from inferior personalities. These personalities might be due to how the were treated by others or by how they feel useless among other people around them. Both of these causes aren't fake because people who see themselves as useless due to their actions can develop depression which can bring forth some very unsettling results. Takumi has had some very bad past experiences that make him more sympathetic than bad: One of his siblings was taken away from his family and when said sibling returns, they unwittingly become one of the causes for the death of the mother of the royal family. Second, he feels secluded and isolated from everyone else since they tend to treat the Avatar with more respect than him (which is understandable from a viewpoint). Third, he feels useless since his talents aren't so great compared to those of his family bar Sakura. The first issue is what haunts him the most and makes him distasteful towards anyone who opposes Hoshido or doesn't originate from Hoshido. For Corrin to suddenly appear didn't really affect him so much really, but when Mikoto died to protect them from the exploding sword, Takumi saw what happened and accused Corrin out of a just reason that if they hadn't returned, this catastrophe would never had taken place at the current time and things might have been different. The second part comes from family favoritism which was directed towards Corrin since they were born. The third problem comes from Takumi believing that his own natural abilities don't compare or shine when placed alongside his other siblings who can fight. His support with his son, Kiragi show how bad Takumi's inferior personality is. Now when compared to real life people, feeling useless compared to those around you is real and is common. Feelings of sadness stemming up from favoritism from others to certain people even after you have done everything you can, can result in depression if you had placed all your effort into a worthless cause. Taking into account that Takumi expresses even more doubt upon seeing Corrin's sword cause all the damage is what makes him snap at his older sibling and those who try to defend them. Sure Corrin didn't make the sword explode but Corrin had that sword with them since their return.

[secondworld]

THEN we'll just have to kill him!

This isn't the first time I've seen someone here(not this thread specifically) say something horrible about someone/people that don't share their views "as a joke". Is this just a thing? I feel like this shouldn't be a thing.

[Ebony]

Honestly I use to be insanely wild about Takumi and I cringe remembering it. I do love this child though. I can understand why people don't like him, but I don't really agree with it at all.

I'd be ultra pissed too if some dude I barely heard of kind of took the affection from my entire family, caused the death of my mom (intentionally or not), and caused a full out war after killing my mom.

Hinoka's support with Takumi also gives me the idea that Takumi as a kid was pissed because Hinoka dropped everything to go look for Corrin after they were kidnapped. I'd be angry at that too.

The only real moment I can't entirely defend is the Azura one, but it's not like we've all never had a dickish moment ever.

[secondworld]

Regarding Takumi himself, he's not a bad character. There's nothing particularly wrong with how he's written, I'd even say he's written pretty well overall, I just don't care much for him.

Matter of preference I suppose.

[Thane]

The only real moment I can't entirely defend is the Azura one, but it's not like we've all never had a dickish moment ever.

I'd say Takumi lashing out against his sister he never got along with is considerably milder than Xander's version of acting like a dick, which involves, you know, slaughtering innocent people.

But he's so upset about it, you guys.

[Raumata]

↑ Can you remind me who Xander killed that were considered innocent people?

[secondworld]

I'd say Takumi lashing out against his sister he never got along with is considerably milder than Xander's version of acting like a dick, which involves, you know, slaughtering innocent people.

But he's so upset about it, you guys.

It's like you're intentionally baiting an argument I was the under the impression you were tired of.

Or was I wrong on that last part?

[twice]

Hasn't there already been a lot of topics talking about Takumi like this? Correct me if I'm wrong

(I've seen many Fates topics, so memory is a bit wonky on this subject)...

Anyways, I honestly don't care about Takumi (he is cute though and his kid is cool).

But he is written pretty good imo, like with how he deals with not trusting Kamui/Corn so easily.

Edited March 24, 2016 by Jin

[Thane]

It's like you're intentionally baiting an argument I was the under the impression you were tired of.

Or was I wrong on that last part?

I actually didn't have any sort of hidden agenda with that little post, I must admit. I think you're giving me more credit than I deserve; I was just poking fun of different takes on acting like a dick.

[JasonsOrigin]

↑ Can you remind me who Xander killed that were considered innocent people?

It's a big spoiler. Gotta respect the people who do not know yet.