Ryas Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 The character arc that's present in the complete work as a whole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshcja Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 It's a deep and meaningful odyssey. She touches your ear and it's cold, then she shows up like half a year later and sets herself on fire. I was moved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secondworld Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 The character arc that's present in the complete work as a whole. By "complete work" you mean separate stories? Her character arc in Birthright is just It's a deep and meaningful odyssey. She touches your ear and it's cold, then she shows up like half a year later and sets herself on fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryas Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 By "complete work" you mean separate stories? Her character arc in Birthright is just Separate stories? What, does her backstory suddenly change if you go onto another route? The choice doesn't go that far back, you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secondworld Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 Separate stories? What, does her backstory suddenly change if you go onto another route? The choice doesn't go that far back, you know. You miss the point Her backstory isn't in Birthright, the story where "the conclusion of her arc" takes place In Birthright she has no arc, in fact she doesn't have an arc in Conquest either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshcja Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 (edited) I forgot her deep well written backstory. She wants Jakobs D Jakob wants to give you the D not her So she gets hotter than you. Edited March 25, 2016 by joshcja Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Book of Ereshkigal Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 Emmeryn give us the ultimate waifu: Cliff His innocent face hid his evil well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryas Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 (edited) You miss the point Her backstory isn't in Birthright, the story where "the conclusion of her arc" takes place In Birthright she has no arc, in fact she doesn't have an arc in Conquest either Someone could play Conquest first and then play Birthright. Or vice versa. They are different routes because they are different conclusions to her character arc, You learn about different things about her in each of the routes and both routes contribute to the character. And you do realize that character arcs aren't limited to the main story, right? Anything we learn about her is part of her character arc, and what is painted of her in the boss conversations, the supports, and the story dialogues is of a sad, depressed girl for whom suicide would certainly not be out of her options. Edited March 25, 2016 by Ryas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samias Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 Separate stories? What, does her backstory suddenly change if you go onto another route? The choice doesn't go that far back, you know. The problem is, is that you have zero backstory for Flora in Birthright, but that's the route where she dies. When I got to that point in the game and Birthright is the first part of Fates I played, I found her death so sudden and a complete inability to feel anything for her. You interact with Flora so incredibly briefly, you could practically swap her out for anyone. I felt bad for Felicia but I also only JUST got Felicia back (female avatar) and no supports, so Flora's death pretty much felt like a random NPC death. To make matters worse, the characters react more to Flora's death than anyone does to Gunther's, who gets MAYBE a line about it 24 chapters later. What the hell? [spoiler=Later on in Birthright]Elise's death is far more impactful. Even if you don't get to read any supports about her, you get far more exposure to her personality and goals. Compared to Flora who we get ZERO insight into in this route, Elise still feels like family to Corrin AND to the player. Xander's death is also pretty much a suicide but we at least understand his despair as a player and have proper justification for why he can't reconcile with Hoshidan forces at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryas Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 I forgot her deep well written backstory. She wants Jakobs D Jakob wants to give you the D not her So she gets hotter than you. Yeah, you know. And the part where she was a political hostage for her entire stay in Nohr. But man, that Jakob lust though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secondworld Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 And you do realize that character arcs aren't limited to the main story, right? These aren't three different sides of the main story, they are separate stories. Having to go out of your way in a separate story to get some sort of justification for actions in this story is not good writing. And even after all that it doesn't change all the other things that make it silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryas Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 (edited) These aren't three different sides of the main story, they are separate stories. Having to go out of your way in a separate story to get some sort of justification for actions in this story is not good writing. And even after all that it doesn't change all the other things that make it silly. I'm not saying it's good writing. It's different writing. Shit, Renault's backstory was locked behind impractical turn counts. And there was Soren's bullcrap in RD. This isn't a new thing. Edited March 25, 2016 by Ryas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saisymbolic Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 Why can Flora even summon an inextinguishable fire? She is from the Ice Tribe? That alone is enough to laugh at. I like Flora--hell, I even made an OC child character for her in another thread--but that does not mean I'm not going to snicker at the burns everyone is giving her. Flora is a character that does not have enough backstory for me to feel sorry for her--or, at the very least, take it personally. She is given a brief piece of enemy dialogue that she had feelings for Jakob, which does not move me because it comes out of nowhere. I have to coincidentally decide to attack with Jakob just to hear it. To feel sorry for Flora, you would have to play through Conquest first, support her with both Corrinmui and Felicia and it is still not enough for me to say I felt anguish when she died. Had there been more backstory and elaboration for her during the narrative--not during supports--it might have been different. I felt more for Zola than I did for either Lilith and Flora put together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshcja Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 (edited) Yeah, you know. And the part where she was a political hostage for her entire stay in Nohr. But man, that Jakob lust though. Yeah she's a special little snowflake and has the tamest backstory of any Nhorian character. Gonna go with "she want the Jakob D" Edit: Yo lets not hate on Lilith, I was actually mildly upset when my pet fish got merc'd. Saddest death in fates. Edited March 25, 2016 by joshcja Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noma9 Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 These aren't three different sides of the main story, they are separate stories. Having to go out of your way in a separate story to get some sort of justification for actions in this story is not good writing. And even after all that it doesn't change all the other things that make it silly. This basically sums up what's wrong with the way the three games' stories were handled in general; Flora's barbecue routine is just a small part of the problematic whole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryas Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 What do the other Nohrian characters have to do with it? They aren't Flora. They wouldn't take the actions she takes. What's even your point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 Maybe my ability to empathize through multiple characters is an anomaly or something. From what I remember: Corrin - Even if we the players didn't get much info about Flora, this is one of the first people Corrin saw when waking up for most of his/her life. Felicia - That's her sister. So in Corrin's eyes, that's one of his/her longtime companions biting the dust. From Felicia's eyes. . .it's even worse. For those of you that have siblings, imagine falling out of touch with one of them, only to find them years later on the street. You try to help them, but they refuse. The final time you run into them, they're in the throes of their final heroin dose. What's bad about that scene, IMO, is that it doesn't seem to affect Corrin that much through the rest of Birthright, even though it should've. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ebony Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 As much as I like Flora, I can't say I felt much when she kicked it. It would have been sadder if it were dragged out through the game, but it's basically forgotten about two chapters after, and Flora only gets brought up near the end when Corrin basically has a near death experience. Hell, even a little acknowledgement from Felicia in her ending would have been nice, but nope. Her death had the impact of if someone just squashed an ant and basically lasted about as quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saisymbolic Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 (edited) Yeah she's a special little snowflake and has the tamest backstory of any Nhorian character. Gonna go with "she want the Jakob D" Edit: Yo lets not hate on Lilith, I was actually mildly upset when my pet fish got merc'd. Saddest death in fates. I'm not hating on Lilith but when her spirit is still eating up all my fruits and berries and still giving me gold bars (I think), I can't help but think something is a bit odd. EDIT: Yes, I know it is more like an offering-type thing but still. Where my berries going, bruh? Edited March 25, 2016 by SaiSymbolic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ebony Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 I'm not hating on Lilith but when her spirit is still eating up all my fruits and berries and still giving me gold bars (I think), I can't help but think something is a bit odd. Still gives bars, yeah. It's just like "you find soemthing in a basket left, oh shit its a gold bar" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryas Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 (edited) As much as I like Flora, I can't say I felt much when she kicked it. It would have been sadder if it were dragged out through the game, but it's basically forgotten about two chapters after, and Flora only gets brought up near the end when Corrin basically has a near death experience. Hell, even a little acknowledgement from Felicia in her ending would have been nice, but nope. Her death had the impact of if someone just squashed an ant and basically lasted about as quickly. This is the fault of lazy writing where IS couldn't be assed to write separate epilogues between Conquest and Birthright. It's prevalent everywhere in Fates. The lack of polish compared to the Radiance games is disgusting. Edited March 25, 2016 by Ryas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkI/O Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 in fact she doesn't have an arc in Conquest either For what it's worth her story arc in Conquest is: "I hate Corrin for this life I'm forced to live." "Witness the strength of my tribe!" - Rinkah Flora Boss dies in two hits "Oh, Corrin you were also a hostage? I guess we're not that different after all. How could you forgive me?" It's not deep and the guilt over hating Corrin despite being in a similar situation never goes anywhere, but at least it's consistent with all 2 of her supports about becoming equals with the people she's close with. Obviously one of the problems of all 3 stories is that life and death challenges the audience's suspension of disbelief constantly. To me the worst death goes to Conquest!Ryoma if only because it seems to me IS wanted to have this dramatic moment and then wrote the story backwards to justify his death no matter how contrived, out of place, or out of character it would be. because "Nobody died in Awakening". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samias Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 Maybe my ability to empathize through multiple characters is an anomaly or something. From what I remember: Corrin - Even if we the players didn't get much info about Flora, this is one of the first people Corrin saw when waking up for most of his/her life. Felicia - That's her sister. So in Corrin's eyes, that's one of his/her longtime companions biting the dust. From Felicia's eyes. . .it's even worse. For those of you that have siblings, imagine falling out of touch with one of them, only to find them years later on the street. You try to help them, but they refuse. The final time you run into them, they're in the throes of their final heroin dose. What's bad about that scene, IMO, is that it doesn't seem to affect Corrin that much through the rest of Birthright, even though it should've. I think that last line is the real villain in all of this. People die. We feel bad for certain characters because they are dwelled upon long enough and their relationship is communicated to the player effectively, not just relying on the knowledge that Corrin knows that character well. And then Corrin's reaction to most deaths in this game is just baffling. Like Gunther's early death, Corrin spends 90% of the game not even caring. They make it to Hoshido and have nothing to say, not even to their servant. His name is just an afterthought to add to the pile of dead people. He's just as important to Corrin as Flora and Lilith but doesn't get the decency to even get name dropped until well into the game where you get frustrated he's been forgotten. The story is so disconnected between chapters at times it feels like the story team wrote one chapter, someone else wrote the next, and no one got the message to have characters emote about that important thing that just happened. [spoiler=Awakening spoilers]It's like Phila's death in Awakening. There was a character with a ton of potential just unceremoniously killed off alongside Emmeryn and no one seemed to care about her at all despite her being the captain of Ylissian pegasus knights. The supports can't talk about it either because Sumia and Cordelia don't support with anyone who arrives after Emmeryn and Phila's death other than their own kids. The lack of ability to lock support conversations to chapter requirements means the story team can't talk about what happened in the story unless the recruitment happens after the plot point. And even still the writing team didn't bother to elaborate and went with a bunch of fluff supports or "let's talk about the main character" supports. People have a lot of good things to say about Path of Radiance supports because they have chapter requirements and many of the supports between main characters supplement the main plot. And there's many secret backstory plots that require a lot of asinine work, but at least the primary plot functions without that information. There's still some supports that are simply fluff, but those characters are not the primary drivers of the story. [spoiler=Path of Radiance spoilers]When Greil dies, the weight of his death literally pulls apart the Greil Mercenaries. Shinon and Gatrie pack up their bags and leave to pursue other work. You might even never convince Shinon to come back. People relate to Greil's death even well after the event. When you compare that to Fates, where death makes people sad for a chapter and then everyone seemingly forgets about it, that's where people have issues with how the plot is being handled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryas Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 For what it's worth her story arc in Conquest is: "I hate Corrin for this life I'm forced to live." "Witness the strength of my tribe!" - Rinkah Flora Boss dies in two hits "Oh, Corrin you were also a hostage? I guess we're not that different after all. How could you forgive me?" It's not deep and the guilt over hating Corrin despite being in a similar situation never goes anywhere, but at least it's consistent with all 2 of her supports about becoming equals with the people she's close with. Obviously one of the problems of all 3 stories is that life and death challenges the audience's suspension of disbelief constantly. To me the worst death goes to Conquest!Ryoma if only because it seems to me IS wanted to have this dramatic moment and then wrote the story backwards to justify his death no matter how contrived, out of place, or out of character it would be. because "Nobody died in Awakening". The guilt over resenting Corrin carries over to Birthright, where it's one of the motivators behind her suicide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anomalocaris Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 We make jokes about her death because some people just like dark humor. Besides, she's just a fictional character so it's a pretty victimless crime anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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