In which blah the Prussian blind reacts to FE Fates: Conquest

[Reki]

I can't wait for the later chapters. Good stuff.

[Lanko]

Stairs from the outer side of the wall, no less.

We didn't even use Dragon Veins to break a session or create magical stairs. Hoshido provided them for us, doors open and everything. /facepalm. Yea, Takumi choosing to become possessed would have been far better. Well, just you wait. I really want to see that reaction.

Can't wait for the next chapters.

Edited April 24, 2016 by Lanko

[Thane]

Are we ever given a reason as to why Hinoka and/or Ryouma aren't there with Takumi? I mean, if that wall is so important and Iago isn't kicking puppies in the capital already, shouldn't their top priority to be to keep the Nohrian army out of Hoshidan cities?

[saisymbolic]

Are we ever given a reason as to why Hinoka and/or Ryouma aren't there with Takumi? I mean, if that wall is so important and Iago isn't kicking puppies in the capital already, shouldn't their top priority to be to keep the Nohrian army out of Hoshidan cities?

I guess they were trying to make it into the "Takumi Showdown" chapter but it didn't work. At the very least, it would have been better had Hinoka been there with her retainers, while Ryoma was defending the capital.

Where was Hinoka stationed again?

Edited April 25, 2016 by SaiSymbolic

[Thane]

I guess they were trying to make into the "Takumi Showdown" chapter but it didn't work. At the very least, it would have been better had Hinoka been there with her retainers, while Ryoma was defending the capital.

Where was Hinoka stationed again?

Outside of the palace. A few feet from Ryouma (I think).

...

What is wrong with these people?

Edited April 24, 2016 by Thane

[Sunwoo]

What is wrong with these people?

Everything.

That, or they were all infected by "plot stupidity disease". I hear it's contagious and, if left untreated, will leave a permanent effect on its victims. It can even be fatal in certain circumstances. The only known cure to plot stupidity disease is to stop playing the game.

[The DanMan]

I guess they were trying to make into the "Takumi Showdown" chapter but it didn't work. At the very least, it would have been better had Hinoka been there with her retainers, while Ryoma was defending the capital.

Where was Hinoka stationed again?

Outside of the palace. A few feet from Ryouma (I think).

...

What is wrong with these people?

Everything.

That, or they were all infected by "plot stupidity disease". I hear it's contagious and, if left untreated, will leave a permanent effect on its victims. It can even be fatal in certain circumstances. The only known cure to plot stupidity disease is to stop playing the game.

Or maybe game design wrote the story, with the plan being all along to have each sibling have their own chapter.

Or maybe it was because Hinoka didn't exist at all for a time and was hastily inserted into the game.

Or maybe it's a combination of the two.

Edited April 24, 2016 by The DanMan

[Sunwoo]

Or maybe game design wrote the story, with the plan being all along to have each sibling have their own chapter.

Or maybe it was because Hinoka didn't exist at all for a time and was hastily inserted into the game.

Or maybe it's a combination of the two.

Hey mang, I'm joking. At this point, I amuse myself by taking unserious potshots at story/character elements in Fates that I don't like.

[Lanko]

Are we ever given a reason as to why Hinoka and/or Ryouma aren't there with Takumi? I mean, if that wall is so important and Iago isn't kicking puppies in the capital already, shouldn't their top priority to be to keep the Nohrian army out of Hoshidan cities?

They could have easily fixed this by showing us Iago/Garon fighting Hinoka/Ryoma in another place (As Iago says they are gonna attack somewhere else).

Ryoma gets wounded by Garon and Hinoka takes him back to the capital to heal. That's why she defends that place by herself. Later, we meet Ryoma who recovers and when he snaps when Corrin tells him about Hinoka is not just about that battle, but also guilty because he wasn't there to fight and protect her because he got wounded, blaming his own weakness.

Instead, the external fort falls, the wall falls, that forest/castle falls and the guy is meditating and is genuinely surprised that one of his siblings that were defending those places might actually be dead...

Edited April 24, 2016 by Lanko

[The DanMan]

Hey mang, I'm joking. At this point, I amuse myself by taking unserious potshots at story/character elements in Fates that I don't like.

I consider the whole thing "so bad it's good"; I just deliberately choose what I snark at. I give the little things a pass, because every game has it's gameplay and story segregation moments.

And it seems that I have as hard of a time interpreting people's snark online as people do interpreting mine in real life.

[Thane]

Or maybe game design wrote the story, with the plan being all along to have each sibling have their own chapter.

Or maybe it was because Hinoka didn't exist at all for a time and was hastily inserted into the game.

Or maybe it's a combination of the two.

Like Sunwoo said, we were just messing around. However, I'd also like to point out that each sibling having their own chapter can negatively impact the story, as it does in Conquest. Besides, look at Elise in Birthright: you don't fight her, yet she shows character development and has an actual interesting role.

I just think it would've made more sense for Corrin to run into the siblings in one-on-one situations more throughout the game early on as opposed to dilly-dallying and doing nothing of importance for the first few chapters, and then you'd face them in pairs or whatever when shit really hit the fan. Now they're lined up like bowling pins and the strongest guy in the entire country is waiting inside a palace while his country burns.

[Sunwoo]

I consider the whole thing "so bad it's good"; I just deliberately choose what I snark at. I give the little things a pass, because every game has it's gameplay and story segregation moments.

And it seems that I have as hard of a time interpreting people's snark online as people do interpreting mine in real life.

My problem with Fates is not the plot itself. The plot is bad, yes, but I could deal with it if the characters could react realistically to the situations they were in. I find that in Conquest, some of the Hoshidan siblings' reactions are pretty … jarring, and the general idea at the end of the game is "Kamui did nuthin' wrong". Which is why I take the opportunity to snark at characters acting unrealistically more than anything else in the game. (Well, other than sibling S-supports, but that will never cease to be stupid.)

Sarcasm is hard to detect online, that's all there is to it.

[The DanMan]

My problem with Fates is not the plot itself. The plot is bad, yes, but I could deal with it if the characters could react realistically to the situations they were in. I find that in Conquest, some of the Hoshidan siblings' reactions are pretty … jarring, and the general idea at the end of the game is "Kamui did nuthin' wrong". Which is why I take the opportunity to snark at characters acting unrealistically more than anything else in the game. (Well, other than sibling S-supports, but that will never cease to be stupid.)

Sarcasm is hard to detect online, that's all there is to it.

I should've made myself clearer: when I say story and plot, I generally mean everything that goes on in there, including character interactions, reactions, and so on.

Like Sunwoo said, we were just messing around. However, I'd also like to point out that each sibling having their own chapter can negatively impact the story, as it does in Conquest. Besides, look at Elise in Birthright: you don't fight her, yet she shows character development and has an actual interesting role.

I just think it would've made more sense for Corrin to run into the siblings in one-on-one situations more throughout the game early on as opposed to dilly-dallying and doing nothing of importance for the first few chapters, and then you'd face them in pairs or whatever when shit really hit the fan. Now they're lined up like bowling pins and the strongest guy in the entire country is waiting inside a palace while his country burns.

Honestly, I should've known I'd get flustered going into this thread in the first place.

[Thane]

Honestly, I should've known I'd get flustered going into this thread in the first place.

If only my snark were as advanced as yours, then we could've had a proper discussion here.

[Sunwoo]

Honestly, I should've known I'd get flustered going into this thread in the first place.

Awww *pokes*

[The DanMan]

If only my snark were as advanced as yours, then we could've had a proper discussion here.

Awww *pokes*

Sorry there; I just tend to grow frustrated at discussion of this game's plot on instinct (a rather immature thing to do). That wasn't a good thing to do here, considering this had strayed outside the standard dead-horse beating. After doing something productive and getting some fresh air, I'm back.

Anyways, I believe that the choice to face most of the siblings near the end of the game was deliberately done to make things feel more climactic; you still do face all of them before the lategame (albeit the elder brothers are optional bosses in their first on-map appearances). The early-game itself is pretty much filler on both routes (as Thane pointed out), though I'd prefer if that time had been spent more on "politicking" with the smaller nations and fleshing them out more over directly battling the main enemy/early-game sibling fights. That's not to say that I wouldn't mind fighting one of them early-game; I'm just pretty okay with things the way they are.

Edited April 25, 2016 by The DanMan

[Thane]

Sorry there; I just tend to grow frustrated at discussion of this game's plot on instinct (a rather immature thing to do). That wasn't a good thing to do here, considering this had strayed outside the standard dead-horse beating. After doing something productive and getting some fresh air, I'm back

Nah man, I'm one of the people complaining non-stop about a video game story; you just getting a tad annoyed with people like me is normal.

Anyways, I believe that the choice to face most of the siblings near the end of the game was deliberately done to make things feel more climactic; you still do face all of them before the lategame (albeit the elder brothers are optional bosses in their first on-map appearances).

Oh sure, it's an obvious deliberate move, it's just not a very good one. However, it's one of the game's lesser offenses.

[blah the Prussian]

My problem with Fates is not the plot itself. The plot is bad, yes, but I could deal with it if the characters could react realistically to the situations they were in. I find that in Conquest, some of the Hoshidan siblings' reactions are pretty jarring, and the general idea at the end of the game is "Kamui did nuthin' wrong". Which is why I take the opportunity to snark at characters acting unrealistically more than anything else in the game. (Well, other than sibling S-supports, but that will never cease to be stupid.)

Sarcasm is hard to detect online, that's all there is to it.

I actually think the best example of this is Sakura. She has absolutely no reason to not hate Corrin, and would be justified in doing so. I mean, that's why I said "unrealistically saintly Princess farm". At this point, I have a headcanon that the entire game is revisionist history by Nohrian historians in the same way that the Turks try to cover up the Armenian Genocide, or that the Japanese try to cover up what they did to Korea. "You see, class, King Xander and Prince Corrin didn't do anything wrong! New evidence suggests that it was definitely that Corrin was just trying to expose King Garon as a demon! I mean, come on, why else would Garon never be seen again after sitting on Hoshido's throne? It's not like he was old or anything, right?" Edited April 25, 2016 by blah the Prussian

[Sunwoo]

I actually think the best example of this is Sakura. She has absolutely no reason to not hate Corrin, and would be justified in doing so. I mean, that's why I said "unrealistically saintly Princess farm". At this point, I have a headcanon that the entire game is revisionist history by Nohrian historians in the same way that the Turks try to cover up the Armenian Genocide, or that the Japanese try to cover up what they did to Korea. "You see, class, King Xander and Prince Corrin didn't do anything wrong! New evidence suggests that it was definitely that Corrin was just trying to expose King Garon as a demon! I mean, come on, why else would Garon never be seen again after sitting on Hoshido's throne? It's not like he was old or anything, right?"

You just finished chapter 23, right? I await your reaction to chapter 24, because what happened at the end of that chapter just sent me on an outright anger rant.

EDIT: Also, the plot of Conquest becomes 100x more tolerable if you view it that way -- as a revisionist history kind of thing.

Edited April 25, 2016 by Sunwoo

[blah the Prussian]

You just finished chapter 23, right? I await your reaction to chapter 24, because what happened at the end of that chapter just sent me on an outright anger rant.

EDIT: Also, the plot of Conquest becomes 100x more tolerable if you view it that way -- as a revisionist history kind of thing.

I'm in the middle of 24; I had to bookmark because my 3ds was about to die. I almost want to write a comedic fanfic set in the modern day with the Hoshidans being outraged at the Nohrian portrayal of the war.

[Sunwoo]

I'm in the middle of 24; I had to bookmark because my 3ds was about to die. I almost want to write a comedic fanfic set in the modern day with the Hoshidans being outraged at the Nohrian portrayal of the war.

Why not just make that your next entry in the "Write Your Butt Off" writing competition

[blah the Prussian]

Why not just make that your next entry in the "Write Your Butt Off" writing competition

It depends on if the prompt agrees, I suppose. If the prompt is "Write a story about a fantasy setting in the modern day" I'll definitely do it.

[Truthblade]

I actually think the best example of this is Sakura. She has absolutely no reason to not hate Corrin, and would be justified in doing so. I mean, that's why I said "unrealistically saintly Princess farm". At this point, I have a headcanon that the entire game is revisionist history by Nohrian historians in the same way that the Turks try to cover up the Armenian Genocide, or that the Japanese try to cover up what they did to Korea. "You see, class, King Xander and Prince Corrin didn't do anything wrong! New evidence suggests that it was definitely that Corrin was just trying to expose King Garon as a demon! I mean, come on, why else would Garon never be seen again after sitting on Hoshido's throne? It's not like he was old or anything, right?"

Well Sakura is only a little gir–oh wait, she's "technically an adult", nvm.

Oh dear, he's not going to like what's next....

[Tolvir]

Conquest was really hurt by the split between the families, the want to create conflict between the two, and Revelation. The best way to write Conquest's story was to have Xander and the royal siblings to split away from Nohr, and try and lead a rebellion against Nohr after their declaration of war against Hoshido. Almost like a race to try and stop Garon before he can destroy Hoshido and get on the throne. You can still leave in the emotion of having to fight against some of the Hoshidan family since they still wouldnt be trusting of you, and would still see you as an enemy even though you and the others split away from Nohr. It would get rid of the problem of Xander being seen as a hypocrite since he would be the one leading the rebellion. You can get rid of the possession angle for Garon, and make him a villain with reasonable motivations. You wont have the problem of Corrin's family in Hoshido forgiving him even though they have every right not to. Actually you can do a "Forgiveness" angle correctly since you can write the siblings as not trusting Corrin and the Nohrian family, and still seeing them as the enemy, even though they are trying to help them.

Problem with that idea is its too similar to BIrthright's story, and it would get rid of all reference to Revelation, thus undoing everything else attached to Fates. So the thing I have come to terms with is Conquest and its characters were doomed to fail from the start because of how IS put this story together.

Edited April 25, 2016 by Tolvir

[BruceLee]

Hey mang, I'm joking. At this point, I amuse myself by taking unserious potshots at story/character elements in Fates that I don't like.

That sounds like a good idea actually.

My problem with Fates is not the plot itself. The plot is bad, yes, but I could deal with it if the characters could react realistically to the situations they were in. I find that in Conquest, some of the Hoshidan siblings' reactions are pretty … jarring, and the general idea at the end of the game is "Kamui did nuthin' wrong". Which is why I take the opportunity to snark at characters acting unrealistically more than anything else in the game. (Well, other than sibling S-supports, but that will never cease to be stupid.)

Sarcasm is hard to detect online, that's all there is to it.

That makes me think of Radiant Dawn. The plot was a mess, but at least the characters acted realistically to all the shit that was happening(somewhat).

I always disliked Radiant Dawn's writing with a passion, then Fates happened, and suddenly it doesn't look bad at all.

Edited April 25, 2016 by BruceLee