Did I just screw myself out of recruiting Asugi? (Avoiding Grinding)

[Thor Odinson]

Telling people to straight up not do something in FE instead of guiding them into figuring it out really gets on my nerves. It's extremely discouraging. The point of FE gameplay esp on higher level play, like TC has said that they're on Lunatic, is to push yourself. There is always a way out and like I said, I'm willing to even figure out a turn-by-turn if I need to and I have what's needed on hand.

The "get kids before chapter 18" thing is only relevant if the player is on a chapter before 18, and sometimes that's not realistically achievable given a run's parameters--good luck getting xander married before 18 on nogrind, for example. You need to actually take the situation the player is in at the moment, and assess that. Then give advice based on whatever they have at hand.

Speaking of which, congrats for getting the kids, TC!

Edited April 26, 2016 by Thor Odinson

[Jakkun]

Telling people to straight up not do something in FE instead of guiding them into figuring it out really gets on my nerves. It's extremely discouraging. The point of FE gameplay esp on higher level play, like TC has said that they're on Lunatic, is to push yourself. There is always a way out and like I said, I'm willing to even figure out a turn-by-turn if I need to and I have what's needed on hand.

The "get kids before chapter 18" thing is only relevant if the player is on a chapter before 18, and sometimes that's not realistically achievable given a run's parameters--good luck getting xander married before 18 on nogrind, for example. You need to actually take the situation the player is in at the moment, and assess that. Then give advice based on whatever they have at hand.

Speaking of which, congrats for getting the kids, TC!

tbh I did Shiro's at Ch27 in my original Rev file and I had no issues with getting him after I messed around with Camilla ferry, so I agree with you.

Ignatius' isnt that bad either, only Child Paralogue that I remember getting me for a bit was Sieg's.

And to answer Levant, I didnt regret waiting till endgame to grab my kids originally since 20/18 is a godsend imo. As long as your units are up to snuff, you shouldnt have any real pressing issues aside from unit placement in the case of maps like Shiro/Ignatius. Doesn't the "Art of War" state that half the battle is before it even starts?

Edited April 26, 2016 by Jakkun

[Butterstroke]

If you want true pain try doing Kana/Dwyer's Paralouges when your only on Chapter 8 birthright.

No, true pain is achieve with trying to save Shiro after beating the game. His actions will crush your soul over and over again until you've given up on him and let him DIE, like the idiot he is.

[Ebony]

None of the kid paralogues gave me any trouble. I guess the worst one was Shiro's? But I managed to keep him from dying this time.

[saisymbolic]

Yeah, Shiro was more so annoying than hard. Words can not express how distraught I was when this boy Leeroy'd when an enemy was close to him.

All I could say was, "No, my son! No!"

[sirmola]

I got shiro's paralog later than i should have, so i got creative with pair ups, azura, and a rescue staff so as to recruit him on the first turn. (and no, i don't remember exactly what i did. It was 4 playthroughs ago.)

[Shadow Mir]

Telling people to straight up not do something in FE instead of guiding them into figuring it out really gets on my nerves. It's extremely discouraging. The point of FE gameplay esp on higher level play, like TC has said that they're on Lunatic, is to push yourself. There is always a way out and like I said, I'm willing to even figure out a turn-by-turn if I need to and I have what's needed on hand.

The "get kids before chapter 18" thing is only relevant if the player is on a chapter before 18, and sometimes that's not realistically achievable given a run's parameters--good luck getting xander married before 18 on nogrind, for example. You need to actually take the situation the player is in at the moment, and assess that. Then give advice based on whatever they have at hand.

Speaking of which, congrats for getting the kids, TC!

I understand that, and I understand where you're coming from, but on the other hand, saying "git gud" generally is a very easy way to get on my nerves. Also, in my defense, I never even unlocked most of the children in the one BR playthrough I did because I generally didn't go out of my way to pair off people. And for the ones I did, it was more a case of "see map, say nope" after chapter 18, except Rhajat and Kana, and THAT made me jaded on the subject of Offspring Seals.

And to answer Levant, I didnt regret waiting till endgame to grab my kids originally since 20/18 is a godsend imo. As long as your units are up to snuff, you shouldnt have any real pressing issues aside from unit placement in the case of maps like Shiro/Ignatius. Doesn't the "Art of War" state that half the battle is before it even starts?

Given that I was discouraged after chapter 18... yeah.

[Emblem Blade]

Telling people to straight up not do something in FE instead of guiding them into figuring it out really gets on my nerves. It's extremely discouraging. The point of FE gameplay esp on higher level play, like TC has said that they're on Lunatic, is to push yourself. There is always a way out and like I said, I'm willing to even figure out a turn-by-turn if I need to and I have what's needed on hand.

The "get kids before chapter 18" thing is only relevant if the player is on a chapter before 18, and sometimes that's not realistically achievable given a run's parameters--good luck getting xander married before 18 on nogrind, for example. You need to actually take the situation the player is in at the moment, and assess that. Then give advice based on whatever they have at hand.

Speaking of which, congrats for getting the kids, TC!

Saying that your way of thinking or methods are better than others is still pushing that other person's face into the ground Thor, that reasoning when combined with a very harsh tone isn't a proper way to end an argument without causing discomfort to come up and I myself am also convicted of such crimes for doing this to others. Also, while I personally find some of the children's paralogues harder past Chapter 18, it's not to where it's "OH the game has decided to hate me for doing this." Also since I'm not going to double-post, I'll also say this and you are free to scold, yell or try to harass me for being rude to you however - THERE IS NO ONE 'PERFECT' WAY TO PLAY THIS GAME AS EVERYONE HAS THEIR OWN WAY TO PLAY IT! Trying to say that one person's way of playing is completely shit and unlogical doesn't prove anything if you don't even know how or why they play like that in the first place. Ok, I'm done yelling in caps, bold and italics now. This just relates to how I'm getting unhappy with how you and I see some people's advice as being inferior to more simple plans when there's no need to get so worked up to where someone has to start 'insulting' another person.

Also seeing how many times I see the saying 'Git Gud' in games or whatever that is comes off more as 'You're so weak and pathetic now get better so you're not so stupidly dumb' when under a harsh tone. Better to say, 'You could do better by applying 'xxxxxx' if this and that don't work' where the 'xxxxx' are the different methods of approaching the situation.

Edited April 27, 2016 by Emblem Blade

[saisymbolic]

I got shiro's paralog later than i should have, so i got creative with pair ups, azura, and a rescue staff so as to recruit him on the first turn. (and no, i don't remember exactly what i did. It was 4 playthroughs ago.)

I did it pretty late, too. I know when I did it, it required killing that one sniper, putting Felicia in the middle of several enemies (she had Tomebreaker and Axebreaker) as bait and making her use the Rescue stave to get him next to her, having Hinoka use another Rescue stave to get him closer and having Ryoma speak to him.

[Jakkun]

This topic is escalating at a considerable velocity

I got shiro's paralog later than i should have, so i got creative with pair ups, azura, and a rescue staff so as to recruit him on the first turn. (and no, i don't remember exactly what i did. It was 4 playthroughs ago.)

What I did was pair Ryouma with Camilla and had her Lunge through the Ninja at the end of the 1st patch of plains tiles (dunno exactly what to call it), then I paired Azura with Hinoka and Sang for Camilla, letting Her ferry Ryouma to Shiro and traded him a Guard Naginata & Peri's Lance, so he can protect himself after becoming a Spear Master. Then I equipped the Guard Naginata and used the Offspring Seal and left him there to kill the Heroes.

[Thor Odinson]

The reason I'm so harsh on Levant is because this is something that's accrued over years of constantly trying to being more civil about not giving a very limited-scope poor advice. This is years of pent up frustration over constant stubbornness despite being shown otherwise.

Wrt Shiro, this is not my strat--though I came to the same conclusion when prompted--but General Horace came up with a no rescue solution.

It's similar to the 1 rescue staff skip of Chapter 28 Conquest--the idea is, fly Ryoma in with any flier, dance with Azura, shelter Azura to protect her, and once Shiro's recruited there's no danger since his starting position is out of any enemy range and if he'll just stay still he'll be fine. 2 8 move pretty much gets Ryoma there perfectly.

[Shadow Mir]

The reason I'm so harsh on Levant is because this is something that's accrued over years of constantly trying to being more civil about not giving a very limited-scope poor advice. This is years of pent up frustration over constant stubbornness despite being shown otherwise.

Well, what you're doing is stooping even lower - how would YOU feel if I told you "git gud"?

[Jakkun]

Well, what you're doing is stooping even lower - how would YOU feel if I told you "git gud"?

...

I hate to be that guy, but you may wanna take this to PMs if you want to discuss that.

This is kinda derailing the thread in a bad way and is well on its way to being locked if this keeps up.

Edited April 27, 2016 by Jakkun

[Ebony]

This topic is escalating at a considerable velocity

What I did was pair Ryouma with Camilla and had her Lunge through the Ninja at the end of the 1st patch of plains tiles (dunno exactly what to call it), then I paired Azura with Hinoka and Sang for Camilla, letting Her ferry Ryouma to Shiro and traded him a Guard Naginata & Peri's Lance, so he can protect himself after becoming a Spear Master. Then I equipped the Guard Naginata and used the Offspring Seal and left him there to kill the Heroes.

Not fast enough.

I was lazy and doubted using Rescue the rest of the game so I just used that. Made Shiro a Basara. Swept.

[saisymbolic]

Not fast enough.

I was lazy and doubted using Rescue the rest of the game so I just used that. Made Shiro a Basara. Swept.

I know right. What else would one use a Rescue for?

[Emblem Blade]

The reason I'm so harsh on Levant is because this is something that's accrued over years of constantly trying to being more civil about not giving a very limited-scope poor advice. This is years of pent up frustration over constant stubbornness despite being shown otherwise.

Wrt Shiro, this is not my strat--though I came to the same conclusion when prompted--but General Horace came up with a no rescue solution.

It's similar to the 1 rescue staff skip of Chapter 28 Conquest--the idea is, fly Ryoma in with any flier, dance with Azura, shelter Azura to protect her, and once Shiro's recruited there's no danger since his starting position is out of any enemy range and if he'll just stay still he'll be fine. 2 8 move pretty much gets Ryoma there perfectly.

That's how life is and there are some things that can't be changed unless the people involve change their own personality by their will. Not everyone has the same level of experience playing the same games as everyone else. I only started playing since SS was released and I visited Serenes Forest as a visitor to get some insight on how to overcome some of the challenges I was getting late-game and I didn't join until a few weeks prior to Fates' arrival. If something like this is starting to make you frustrated it's better to calm yourself down before venting it out on someone else as it can make things worse.

That doesn't make any sense since Ryoma and Shiro aren't playable outside of the logbook or recruit options (other player's My Castles) in Conquest.

...

I hate to be that guy, but you may wanna take this to PMs if you want to discuss that.

This is kinda derailing the thread in a bad way and is well on its way to being locked if this keeps up.

Well, when personal opinions are seen as not-needed and people want to sharply criticize others for their thoughts, then it would be best for this thread to be locked. I dread that outcome though since it would more or less likely cause discontempt.

[Thor Odinson]

Also for an Azura-less (in case all your shelter users suck or something) no-rescue solution to Shiro, but is pretty much a postgame build--but hey if you waited that long anyway, 2 galeforce (probably can reduce to 1 if I get my pairup/shove chains done correctly) works really well and also pretty much clears out the bottom area in one go. Of course, the no gale strat is a lot more impressive, but in case you do have 2 galeforce fliers at your disposal, hey.

Rescue's definitely the most painless way, though. I can do it with 1 if I have a strong enough falco and 2 if I don't.

That doesn't make any sense since Ryoma and Shiro aren't playable outside of the logbook or recruit options (other player's My Castles) in Conquest.

What I meant is, it uses the same idea behind the single-rescue strat behind Conquest 28's 1 turn clear, except minus the rescue bit. Instead of dancing your rescue staffer, you dance the flier carrying Ryoma, then you take someone with shelter---Silas, Paladin!Jakob, Xander or Peri on Revelation, CavCorn, whatever, and protect Azura from further harm. In this case you dont' need to trade Azura to another unit and make her dance someone else--though she can, if you wanna just, clear out the area or something.

Edited April 27, 2016 by Thor Odinson

[saisymbolic]

LOL. It took me like ten times of failing just to come up with the Rescue strategy. I thought I had saved the world when I got Shiro next to Ryoma with no casualties.

Ah, the sense of accomplishment is strong in this one.

[Ebony]

I know right. What else would one use a Rescue for?

In Revelations? I don't know. I tihnk the only other time I used it was a bad position during the last boss fight almost resulted in a DOA Takumi so I got him out of there.

[Jakkun]

Not fast enough.

I was lazy and doubted using Rescue the rest of the game so I just used that. Made Shiro a Basara. Swept.

I know right. What else would one use a Rescue for?

tbh I kinda just forgot they existed due to me being a massive packrat who hates using items with limited quantity, which is why I opted for what I did.

I can rest easy now knowing that you can get more Rescue Staves via Challenges (apparently some Ruffians drop them).

[saisymbolic]

They usually piss me off because I have a tendency to press Optimize so they end up in at least one of my unit's inventory, even though I don't need them. I should just sell them or something.

[Emblem Blade]

Also for an Azura-less (in case all your shelter users suck or something) no-rescue solution to Shiro, but is pretty much a postgame build--but hey if you waited that long anyway, 2 galeforce (probably can reduce to 1 if I get my pairup/shove chains done correctly) works really well and also pretty much clears out the bottom area in one go. Of course, the no gale strat is a lot more impressive, but in case you do have 2 galeforce fliers at your disposal, hey.

Rescue's definitely the most painless way, though. I can do it with 1 if I have a strong enough falco and 2 if I don't.

What I meant is, it uses the same idea behind the single-rescue strat behind Conquest 28's 1 turn clear, except minus the rescue bit. Instead of dancing your rescue staffer, you dance the flier carrying Ryoma, then you take someone with shelter---Silas, Paladin!Jakob, Xander or Peri on Revelation, CavCorn, and protect Azura from further harm. In this case you dont' need to trade Azura to another unit and make her dance someone else--though she can, if you wanna just, clear out the area or something.

I find trying to clear the map (those with mission objectives being 'Seize' and 'Defeat the Boss') without taking out every enemy present to be a very 'bad' excuse for doing that map if it's a story-driven chapter, even if it's the best option to avoid casualties mounting up in my own view. When I get a hard challenge that forces me to actually think, I don't mind being free-style without restricting my abilities as long I know what I myself am doing. Sure there were some maps where defeating the boss to end said chapters made things easier but I found out that not getting all the total exp. in those chapters where I didn't defeat every enemy present possible prevented me from doing a proper score once I finished each path.

I'm also arguing with someone on YouTube who thinks that grinding is cheating when you're just using what you have at your disposal. Also, I wish I could say 'Good luck taking on the bosses from Chapter 27 and Endgame if you only used your base class and first promotion classes to level up to that person seeing how he thinks he could do CQ Luna/Classic without even reclassing to avoid some otherwise nearly-unavoidable deaths/defeats in-game.

[Thor Odinson]

in Awakening i used them everywhere bc they're freely buyable, lol

sometimes you just, really don't wanna deal with some shit, so bam rescue

although that's when their range scaled to mag too, like the standard chapter 25 one turn clear uses 1-2 rescues depending on if you have galeforce or not

They're a stable when you're trying to cut turns, but not really necessary if you're not giving a fuck about turncounts. Even Conq28 is doable without rescue.

But as far as BR/Rev is concerned, since there's a reasonable number of rescue staves, they're pretty alright for fixing positioning mistakes, too.

[Jakkun]

I'm also arguing with someone on YouTube who thinks that grinding is cheating when you're just using what you have at your disposal. Also, I wish I could say 'Good luck taking on the bosses from Chapter 27 and Endgame if you only used your base class and first promotion classes to level up to that person seeing how he thinks he could do CQ Luna/Classic without even reclassing to avoid some otherwise nearly-unavoidable deaths/defeats in-game.

I wonder if that person thinks if DLC classes is cheating too, because the 5 free seals you get as soon as you get access to My Castle is making my new Conquest/Classic experience so much fun...Dread Silas is broken btw.

[Thor Odinson]

I find trying to clear the map (those with mission objectives being 'Seize' and 'Defeat the Boss') without taking out every enemy present to be a very 'bad' excuse for doing that map if it's a story-driven chapter, even if it's the best option to avoid casualties mounting up in my own view. When I get a hard challenge that forces me to actually think, I don't mind being free-style without restricting my abilities as long I know what I myself am doing. Sure there were some maps where defeating the boss to end said chapters made things easier but I found out that not getting all the total exp. in those chapters where I didn't defeat every enemy present possible prevented me from doing a proper score once I finished each path.

I'm also arguing with someone on YouTube who thinks that grinding is cheating when you're just using what you have at your disposal. Also, I wish I could say 'Good luck taking on the bosses from Chapter 27 and Endgame if you only used your base class and first promotion classes to level up to that person seeing how he thinks he could do CQ Luna/Classic without even reclassing to avoid some otherwise nearly-unavoidable deaths/defeats in-game.

Okay but what does that have anything to do with Shiro's chapter? I'm using an available strat of Conq 28 to explain the idea behind the same principle of how to get Ryoma up there in 1 turn without using Rescue, not making you play CQ28 any other way other than what you already play it as. I find it easier to explain concepts based on existing concepts.

The 1 turn rescue is one available strat that's semi-well known, so I thought I'd use it to get my idea across better, what does your own philosophy behind how to clear a map your way have anything to do with it?

Edited April 27, 2016 by Thor Odinson