Vanguard vs. Great Knight

[Ekans647]

While researching what to reclass MU to, I noticed that Vanguard's stat caps are near identical to that of the Great Knights. It go me thinking, which class is better? Stat wise, the Vanguard has +1 Str and +3 Lck, while the Great Knight has +5 Def and +1 Res. Other than stat differences, Great Knight can wield Lances and has +1 Movement, but the Vanguard can get a A rank in Swords and does not suffer from the class weaknesses that the Great Knight does. So which class is superior?

[MCProductions]

Vanguard has Aether access. Nough said

[Azure Sen]

Great Knight. Aether can be taught via a scroll, Great Knight isn't gender-exclusive, the only growth advantage Vanguard has is 5% more Luck, and a +5 Def cap and +1 Move is way more useful than +1 Strength and +3 Luck.

EDIT: Also, Great Knight doesn't make everyone who use look overmuscled a la any male unit who reclasses into the Oni Savage line.

Edited April 27, 2016 by AzureSen

[Emblem Blade]

While researching what to reclass MU to, I noticed that Vanguard's stat caps are near identical to that of the Great Knights. It go me thinking, which class is better? Stat wise, the Vanguard has +1 Str and +3 Lck, while the Great Knight has +5 Def and +1 Res. Other than stat differences, Great Knight can wield Lances and has +1 Movement, but the Vanguard can get a A rank in Swords and does not suffer from the class weaknesses that the Great Knight does. So which class is superior?

Great Knight Max Stats w/o modifiers: 65/35/25/29/27/28/37/28 (that's HP/Str/Mag/Skl/Spd/Lck/Def/Res in that order). B-Rank max in Sword/Axe and A-Rank in Lance.

Vanguard Max Stats w/o modifiers: 65/36/25/29/30/30/32/27 (that's HP/Str/Mag/Skl/Spd/Lck/Def/Res in order). A-Rank in Swords and B-Rank max in Axes.

Advantages/Disadvantages go with non-smithed weapons.

Great Knight Advantages:

*+5 Def/+1 Res/+1 Mov lead.

*Literally has no weapon weakness as it can use the entire physical (and magical melee weapons) triangle to their advantage to screw up opponents. Tossing on Breaker Skills to Great Knights makes mind games a pain to overcome should you encounter one.

*A very effective physical wall against melee opponents if built properly

Great Knight Disadvantages:

*Overall Slow for a class as 27 Spd and 28 Lck means that without Breaker Skills to overcome Enemy Turn, you're not going to be dodging much.

*Hit Rate is somewhat low despite controlling the weapon triangle seeing how Weapon Hit Rate + (([skl*3]+Lck)/2) is the common calculations for finding your actual Hit Rate with a weapon equipped before factoring the weapon boosts from Weapon Ranks. You're also prone to be OTKO'd by high powered Sorcerers outside of PvE.

*Having 2-3 weaknesses isn't fun seeing how Conquest (Skill) isn't in Fates to save Armored Units . Armorslayer and Hammer (both due to you being an 'Armored' Unit) and possible Beast Killer (as you're on a mount) makes things pretty complicated since you get hit for some really heavy damage. Without Pavise, you're prone to be OTKO'd by a faster Zerker with a Hammer equipped that just needs to whack you to kill you, no skills needed for additional damage for the Zerker.

Vanguard Advantages:

*Vanguard has a +1 Str/+3 Spd/+2 Lck Lead.

*Slightly faster and more accurate.

*Great physical wallbreaker and can possibly OTKO most non-Defensively built mages in one go.

Vanguard Disadvantages:

*That Spd/Lck helps you dodge and avoid enemy attacks but your weapon advantages doesn't help completely deal with the following...

*Crappy Resistance stat just like for Ike in Radiant Dawn not helped by the very abysmal Resistance Growth. You're a walking target for buffed up magical attackers.

*DLC-locked to Males only.

Now, this all changes by how you play, what your Boon/Bane are and what skills you run for the most part.

[Roflolxp54]

A thing to note is that eventually, ALL Vanguard skills will be available to all units regardless of gender, so once Recollection of Bubbles DLC comes to America, there is no advantage granted to either class based on skills.

[FluffyWarlock]

A thing to note is that eventually, ALL Vanguard skills will be available to all units regardless of gender, so once Recollection of Bubbles DLC comes to America, there is no advantage granted to either class based on skills.

Mind posting proof, please?

Great Knight. Aether can be taught via a scroll, Great Knight isn't gender-exclusive, the only growth advantage Vanguard has is 5% more Luck, and a +5 Def cap and +1 Move is way more useful than +1 Strength and +3 Luck.

EDIT: Also, Great Knight doesn't make everyone who use look overmuscled a la any male unit who reclasses into the Oni Savage line.

Meanwhile, you're easy prey for armorslayers, hammers and beastslayers.

Edited April 27, 2016 by FluffyWarlock

[Emblem Blade]

Mind posting proof, please?

Meanwhile, you're easy prey for armorslayers, hammers and beastslayers.

Check Serenes Forest under Fates' DLC content. If not it was announced for JP's Memories of Foam and Harmony Festival DLC for JP owners of Fates on a Japanese site where updates are shown. I can't understand Japanese words so I had to use a translator.

I feel as if describing looks doesn't help a unit survive better. Having below average Spd/Lck makes your Avoid Rate below average so you can't dodge much even with a weapon advantage and that below average Resistance Stat also makes enemies who double you that use magic very frightening (but this is also a threat for Vanguards as well). Sorcerers running Lightning (common sight on a few maps/PvE and in PvP) make for a very imposing threat. That and having two glaring weaknesses to physical weapons can allow some mere Swordmasters to 2-TKO you without crits/skills using Armorslayer alone (or if you want, Elite Ninjas with Poison Strike + Armorslayer to make you weaker over time).

[Jakkun]

Great Knights don't fight for their friends.

Well except Frederick.

But to give you a serious answer if its someone like Benny, yeah I think Great Knight is better, but the thing is Vanguard can be kinda fast, while Great Knights are gonna be slow for the most part. I think a good example of a Vanguard would be Rinkah!Hisame. +5 Spd mod with some decent Spd (iirc he has +1 Spd, could be wrong) so he can fit into the class with like no issues.

Shiro & Xander make good Vanguards too imo.

[Emblem Blade]

Great Knights don't fight for their friends.

Well except Frederick.

But to give you a serious answer if its someone like Benny, yeah I think Great Knight is better, but the thing is Vanguard can be kinda fast, while Great Knights are gonna be slow for the most part. I think a good example of a Vanguard would be Rinkah!Hisame. +5 Spd mod with some decent Spd (iirc he has +1 Spd, could be wrong) so he can fit into the class with like no issues.

Shiro & Xander make good Vanguards too imo.

Wary Vanguard Fighters Benny and Iggy.

[maninbluejumpsuit]

Go vanguard. Having extra weaknesses via armorslayer, hammer, beast killer, hunter's knife, sting shuriken, hunter's bow, and transformers with beastbane to go with MU's wyrmslayer weakness is arse. Vanguard doesn't 'fraid of any of those.

Edited April 28, 2016 by maninbluejumpsuit

[Time the Crestfallen]

Great Knights are great physical tanks, have overall more useful skills, better weapon access and better movement

Vanguard had more balanced stats, Aether and Strengthtaker and no Armour or Beast weakness.

[Emblem Blade]

Go vanguard. Having extra weaknesses via armorslayer, hammer, beast killer, hunter's knife, sting shuriken, hunter's bow, and transformers with beastbane to go with MU's wyrmslayer weakness is arse. Vanguard doesn't 'fraid of any of those.

Don't remind me...

I've seen a Selkie OTKO my Great Knights before by scoring crits on them like it was nothing and she could only OTKO them by doing crits.

[Admiral "Bull" Halsey]

Neither, imo I'd go for Master of Arms.

[Jakkun]

I think Great Knights are one of the best classes on Conquest because Defense is king there.

But

But

Vanguard Arthur

[Captain Karnage]

Vangaurd for sure

they have fewer weaknessess, and Aether

I'd get more vangaurd brands but that map is just way too hard for me

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

I think Great Knights are one of the best classes on Conquest because Defense is king there.

But

But

Vanguard Arthur

People seems to hype up Armored Blow

I think the main advantage of GK in Conquest is how broken their pre class are. Strictly speaking from skillset, Cavalier has probably the best skill out of any base class, and Knight isn't much behind.

But then again ranking out best base class skill is pretty messy since theres so many good ones(Wyvern Rider, Niles class, Ninja, Cavalier, Knight, Fighter), so i dunno why i even said that lol

[Based Goomy]

This really depends on your type of play style. I mean you can get the Vanguard skills on a Great Knight with the Vanguard Dawn DLC, but you also have to think of how you play. GKnight has that extra MOV stat since it's horseback, but that makes it vulnerable to weapons like Beast Killer. Vanguard doesn't exactly have that weakness, but doesn't have the option to reclass and cover the Weapon Triangle.

So all in all, it depends on if you want a horseback impaler, or a pole-breaking axe lord.