Comet Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 (edited) I was under the impression that the nerfs outside of the one to Finishing Touch were slaps on the wrist; he KO's maybe 5-10% later overall. He's still regarded as top-tier by many. Whatever they decide to do, I still think he's a little too good at a little too much. tfw people justify poor ideas with "well he's top tier". SOMEONE is going to be better at more than all the other characters, deal with it. Edited May 17, 2016 by Comet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi Posted May 17, 2016 Author Share Posted May 17, 2016 I was under the impression that the nerfs outside of the one to Finishing Touch were slaps on the wrist; he KO's maybe 5-10% later overall. He's still regarded as top-tier by many. Whatever they decide to do, I still think he's a little too good at a little too much. He still lacks a go to kill setup, he can 100% rely on, I mean I know you despise Cloud but this is getting a little ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elieson Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 He still lacks a go to kill setup, he can 100% rely on, I mean I know you despise Cloud but this is getting a little ridiculous. With as easily as he can rack up damage, that along is his greatest strength. Dtilt and Uair are his Bread and Butter, and Limit only makes him better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi Posted May 17, 2016 Author Share Posted May 17, 2016 (edited) With as easily as he can rack up damage, that along is his greatest strength. Dtilt and Uair are his Bread and Butter, and Limit only makes him better Dtilt isn't even that good, its unsafe unless you do it properly spaced and even then its awkward to set up. His bread and butter is his speed and spacing capabilities, which lend themselves to help him get limit, he's very offset by having fairly laggy kill options outside of say Limit Cross Slash, his jab isn't safe past the first kick, his recovery sucks, so he has notable flaws too. Edited May 17, 2016 by Jedi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The DanMan Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 He still lacks a go to kill setup, he can 100% rely on, I mean I know you despise Cloud but this is getting a little ridiculous. I don't despise him; I was thinking along the lines of Elieson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elieson Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 Dtilt isn't even that good, its unsafe unless you do it properly spaced and even then its awkward to set up. His bread and butter is his speed and spacing capabilities, which lend themselves to help him get limit, he's very offset by having fairly laggy kill options outside of say Limit Cross Slash, his jab isn't safe past the first kick, his recovery sucks, so he has notable flaws too. A good Cloud is going to intimidate the fudge out of your behind though, and pocket that Limit, keeping you on the defensive or the patient offensive to break it. It's like when you're running from KOPunch!Me at 50%+. You know it's gonna kill, so you have to tweak your play around it. That's called controlling the field, which is in part why Cloud is so highly acclaimed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi Posted May 17, 2016 Author Share Posted May 17, 2016 I don't despise him; I was thinking along the lines of Elieson. Alright, well the impressions I've gotten from your constant harping on him say otherwise just fyi. A good Cloud is going to intimidate the fudge out of your behind though, and pocket that Limit, keeping you on the defensive or the patient offensive to break it. It's like when you're running from KOPunch!Me at 50%+. You know it's gonna kill, so you have to tweak your play around it. That's called controlling the field, which is in part why Cloud is so highly acclaimed. You are right, there is always that intimidation factor, but largely most of the upper characters have that factor going for them by themselves, Limit would be complained about even if he was significantly worse though for the same reason, he just happens to be really solid, I mean I've seen people complain about Roy's fsmash killing at 60% when he isn't supremely good, the smash community finds stuff to harp on about every single character, I still remember being called cheap for using Ike or Sonic in the Brawl days despite the fact that they weren't all that great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elieson Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 yea but Bowser kills early with Fsmashes that land and he's universally rated as a pretty poor character. The intimidation comes from being hard to get around. Cloud's going to Uair you if you do anything to approach him from the air because it's so safe and an easy % rackup/juggle that you, the victim, don't want. His Jab and Nair game cover his stationary positioning pretty well, and Dtilt can slide through shields and combos into juggle games for easy double-digit % rackups. He doesn't need major combos because his Patience+CounterReads game is his strongest playstyle, and he punishes you hard if he reads you right. You're not regretting getting knocked around by some Yoshi shenanigans or some Lucas stuff because it's avoidable in general and/or escapable, but Cloud makes it hard to escape vs say Mario and Pikachu, who are A: predictable in their threat levels due to being around more and B: have more contained hitboxes in general due to their size and attack style. Roy's situationally threatening, but fighting vs. talented Clouds force you to control the flow of battle, or else Cloud can just park and Limit boost to feed his own % and Speed potential and just let you come to him. It's why Cloud & others are upper tier, and why they're ragg'd on. Bayo/Mario/Rosaluma/Villager have their haters too because they have an intimidating level of optimized-for-their-best-playstyle playstyle, and it's fair to include Cloud in this bunch of threatening at almost any time PCs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The DanMan Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 Alright, well the impressions I've gotten from your constant harping on him say otherwise just fyi. I believe after his announcement I went off on a single tangent involving 3rd party characters in general, but I've cooled down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solrocknroll Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 (edited) yes, because you focused your irrational anger towards bayonetta anyway, I want Jigglypuff and Olimar to be buffed and Bayonetta to stay the exact same. Edited May 17, 2016 by Ms. Bunch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The DanMan Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 (edited) yes, because you focused your irrational anger towards bayonetta anyway, I want Jigglypuff and Olimar to be buffed and Bayonetta to stay the exact same. Bayonetta (until recently) was considered far and away the best character in the game. Couple that with how unique she is (one could make the argument that she doesn't even play like a Smash character), and I have my point. I've never presented my opinions as facts; I've only used facts to back up my opinion. It is a fact that Bayonetta has multiple 0-death combos, at least one if which is applicable during normal play. Either way, I'm almost entirely sure certain aspects of her will be altered in this patch. My exasperation also stemmed in no small part from the announcement that their would be no more patches. Since we've known for some time that the patches will continue (contrary to the announcement), I've cooled down. Edited May 17, 2016 by The DanMan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi Posted May 17, 2016 Author Share Posted May 17, 2016 yea but Bowser kills early with Fsmashes that land and he's universally rated as a pretty poor character. The intimidation comes from being hard to get around. Cloud's going to Uair you if you do anything to approach him from the air because it's so safe and an easy % rackup/juggle that you, the victim, don't want. His Jab and Nair game cover his stationary positioning pretty well, and Dtilt can slide through shields and combos into juggle games for easy double-digit % rackups. He doesn't need major combos because his Patience+CounterReads game is his strongest playstyle, and he punishes you hard if he reads you right. You're not regretting getting knocked around by some Yoshi shenanigans or some Lucas stuff because it's avoidable in general and/or escapable, but Cloud makes it hard to escape vs say Mario and Pikachu, who are A: predictable in their threat levels due to being around more and B: have more contained hitboxes in general due to their size and attack style. Roy's situationally threatening, but fighting vs. talented Clouds force you to control the flow of battle, or else Cloud can just park and Limit boost to feed his own % and Speed potential and just let you come to him. It's why Cloud & others are upper tier, and why they're ragg'd on. Bayo/Mario/Rosaluma/Villager have their haters too because they have an intimidating level of optimized-for-their-best-playstyle playstyle, and it's fair to include Cloud in this bunch of threatening at almost any time PCs. You make very good points, but the thing about every fighting type game is that there is going to be a higher echelon, Smash 4 has been fairly good overall to its massive cast of 58 characters, compare that to Melee where these days we have like 5 viable in competitive play characters, or Brawl which was around 12 or so depending. I think we should be more focused on having the lower guys/gals be buffed to the higher levels, than having the higher levels lowered, if you lower the ceiling, the competitive play vanishes entirely, because if the cool and unique things about characters get toned down to being entirely campy or uninteresting to watch, Smash 4 as a whole loses out on its audience, even if people still found it fun to play. It already has to compete with Melee which has an unpleasant fanbase (As a whole not entirely, I know people here play Melee too and I dabble in it too, and like to watch it) that rags on Smash 4 alot as is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zera Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 Why does the 3DS patch take up so much memory? I pity those with the standard 2 GB SD cards... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comet Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 58...viable characters...? i'd challenge everyone up to Ness's viability now that I think about it. rosa is supposed to destroy him, no? the same thing is true for peach vs jiggs and ICs vs peach. it doesn't compete with melee that much. if anything, they fuel each other. they're really competing with stuff like street fighter. btw, i personally find most of smash 4's community annoying and whiny, but i don't go around saying stuff like that because it accomplishes nothing but showing petty ignorance even if we ultimately know it isn't true. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi Posted May 18, 2016 Author Share Posted May 18, 2016 58...viable characters...? i'd challenge everyone up to Ness's viability now that I think about it. rosa is supposed to destroy him, no? the same thing is true for peach vs jiggs and ICs vs peach. it doesn't compete with melee that much. if anything, they fuel each other. they're really competing with stuff like street fighter. btw, i personally find most of smash 4's community annoying and whiny, but i don't go around saying stuff like that because it accomplishes nothing but showing petty ignorance even if we ultimately know it isn't true. :) Nah I didn't mean there were 58 viable characters, I meant as a whole you can do more with more of the cast in comparison, my bad. Also sorry for the call out, I think both fanbases have their good and bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jave Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 Why does the 3DS patch take up so much memory? I pity those with the standard 2 GB SD cards... 3DS patches replace previous patches entirely, so they end up using less space than what the actual download shows (i.e. once you download the 1.1.6 patch, the 1.1.5 patch gets deleted). This is unlike Wii U patches, which add to the previous downloaded patches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zera Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 Oh. How much is the Wii U patch in full then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ema Skye Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 (edited) Oh. How much is the Wii U patch in full then? Somewhere in the realm of 3GB. Or at least, that's what I think it is. The 8gb Wii U I have at work is totally full with just Smash on the hard drive. Edited May 18, 2016 by Squid Lord Doof Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi Posted May 18, 2016 Author Share Posted May 18, 2016 Considering how big the files are, I have to assume the changes are fairly significant. But then again I could be wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elieson Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 how big are songs from Smash? Could it be like 2-3 audio tracks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi Posted May 18, 2016 Author Share Posted May 18, 2016 how big are songs from Smash? Could it be like 2-3 audio tracks? I doubt they'd be adding songs at this point. I don't think songs are that big either, they purposefully cut vocal songs in half just so the file sizes are smaller for instance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiac Posted May 19, 2016 Share Posted May 19, 2016 (edited) 1.1.6 appears to only have changes to Bayonetta. https://twitter.com/RandomTBush/status/733123976352927745 Also RIP BUFF THE PUFF CAMPAIGN https://twitter.com/thatsmash4moddr/status/733133534500622336 Edited May 19, 2016 by ~Summer~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiac Posted May 19, 2016 Share Posted May 19, 2016 (edited) DOUBLE POST BUT IMPORTANT. Bayonetta has increased knockback growth on her side special, rip combos. https://twitter.com/thatsmash4moddr/status/733137141820186624 Edited May 19, 2016 by ~Summer~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami922 Posted May 19, 2016 Share Posted May 19, 2016 1.1.6 appears to only have changes to Bayonetta. https://twitter.com/RandomTBush/status/733123976352927745 That's.. rather disappointing. At least my mains didn't get nerfed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi Posted May 19, 2016 Author Share Posted May 19, 2016 (edited) 1.1.6 appears to only have changes to Bayonetta. https://twitter.com/RandomTBush/status/733123976352927745 Thats so dumb, if its true. She hasn't had the significant results to even warrant it, considering people have found ways around her Edited May 19, 2016 by Jedi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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