The Fates first gen are terrible parents

[Time the Crestfallen]

I hate to be rude, but...

[spoiler=This Thread]

Seriously, how many times do we need to have this discussion?

[DragonFlames]

I'm not too bothered by the child system, most because I acknowledge it as fanservice and non-canon.

Now, while I have said this a million times, I do wish the Bond Unit system could have been implemented as the way all the first generation units get their "children." The "children" would not have been real children, merely beings that looked like they could genetically belong to the character that had their stats and skills. While the idea is just as nonsensical, I would have accepted it a bit better because it doesn't try as hard to justify the presence of the second generation. That Deepbolic Hyperealm storytelling idea was a horrible way to include them in.

Oh wait, if the second generation are Bond Units, you wouldn't be able to marry them. LOL. Oops

At any rate, all I ask is that if IS wishes to continue implementing the child mechanic, I ask they do it in a different manner.

Believe it or not, there is a game that does exactly that. It's called Conception II: Children of the Seven Stars and its a fun Dungeon Crawler for 3DS and Vita. There, the "children" are beings created by so-called "Star Energy" but they aren't real persons, just... phantoms that fight for you (but still call you Daddy).

On topic: Personally, I don't think that the children were implemented that badly. It is noticeable that it is a tacked on feature thought of at the last minute, but I don't mind it too much. They did the best they could do to please all the fans. If they weren't there, at least SOME people would rage up a storm on where the children characters are.

They could have done it better, of course, but somehow, I don't think the Deeprealms are that bad of an idea. Even though I kinda wish they had made the children into first gen units, so then it wouldn't feel weird to marry one of them, because marrying the children of your friends and consequently making them into grandparents at barely twenty-something years of age (even worse when you consider Elise, who is 14 at the oldest or Sakura, whom I think is no older than 16) has always been a weird concept to me, even back in Awakening.

I think Ophelia is the worst offender, because she retroactively makes Lissa into a grandmother at maybe 15/17, and even into a great-grandmother, when Kana enters the equation.

Could you imagine how that conversation would go, if Odin/Owain went back to the Awakening world and brought his wife, Ophelia, Kamui and Kana along? The poor girl...

Edited June 9, 2016 by DragonFlames

[Res]

When I'm done unlocking supports, I'm never recruiting any of the children after S-ranking the parents. How long is each campaign in Fates anyway? Certainly not enough to have babies and raise/abandon them in the Deeprealms.

In Revelation it's mentioned that the skies will change 'in a few months', so chapters 6 - 18 must take course over a few months.

I don't think a time period is specifically mentioned in the other paths. It's especially silly if you recruit the kids in Birthright in the early chapters, when Takumi and Ryoma are missing (and you're hinted to be on a tight time restraint in looking for them), or if you recruit the kids during the last few chapters in any of the paths.

[Slyfox]

A few months usually isn't as much as nine months.

I think Conquest is the only one that could make sense. Being sent on various missions, coming back, embarking on a campaign fighting most of the Hoshido army, etc.

[Anfaidora]

I always assumed, Story time> 1-2 months go by omg missed period, Deeprealm > until birth and no longer breast feeding, Story time > It's been like two weeks, but kid is now 1 1/2-2 years old.

Even without the above I don't understand why people think each campaign was done in a few weeks (Haven't played Rev yet.). Other then some warping shenanigans on rare occasions it is likely moving the whole army from one place to the next took weeks between chapters when they obviously moved locations. Every time anyone has been on a sea voyage it would have most likely taken at least a week, but up to a month depending on weather conditions. For me it feels like the whole war took place over a year or two, least in CQ and BR. Which makes even more sense in my mind since any time they went to My Castle, and returned, they were in the exact same spot they were in when they returned to base. They didn't, and couldn't use the Astral Planes to warp around story time.

On top of this, My Castle time seems to be slower then story time. If we assume one battle, story-wise, took most of the day when you return to my castle it is more then likely you have only progressed through one of the four time phases, morning, afternoon, evening and night.

[Alastor15243]

The strange thing is that the way the post-first-S-rank narrative says it, it sounds like the deeprealms weren't decided on until after the baby was born. Otherwise the concern wouldn't be about "where is a safe place for our children other than the obvious castle that we're just going to ignore", but rather "is it really safe to have pregnant women fighting?". So it seems that, yes, the game expects you to believe that the actual childbirth basically happens instantly.

Edited June 10, 2016 by Alastor15243

[AuraDragoness]

Honestly I don't blame the devs for the deeprealms thing, if anything I blame the people desperate to play matchmaker and have all their waifus to the point where the said devs just had to implement something to appease those people. It seems like the fact some of the characters being children was decided last-minute since we never actually found out about their existence until 1-week before release.

Also, you have to take into account that they didn't just have the kid and leave them to grow up there, if you read some of the Parent-Child conversations the parents did spend time with their children for as long as they were still kids and for as long as they could. If you take into account some of the story dialogue in both BR and CQ and the logic between traveling over thousands and thousands of miles from one kingdom to the other, the whole plot (for both paths) would take two years at most.

The concept of lots of time passing even with a few levels and timeskips has been seen before; in Path of Radiance, if I remember right, it took 1 whole year and a few weeks before the final battle even though there was only a small amount of levels in the game.

And look at it this way, having separate realms is much better than having the cliche "oh lets just throw time travel into the mix because it's easy" path. That's the main thing I just hated about Awakening since it's an overused concept that is hard to pull off without cliches.

On the topic of the deeprealms being safer...there are Valite invasions on your castle when you are there to defend it...but what if you weren't there and Valites attacked? All children would be seen and killed; even if some of your army stayed behind, if the Valite invasion was big enough, there would be chance that those left behind would either die or be wounded to the point where they couldn't do anything but watch the Valites kill.

On topic: Personally, I don't think that the children were implemented that badly. It is noticeable that it is a tacked on feature thought of at the last minute, but I don't mind it too much. They did the best they could do to please all the fans. If they weren't there, at least SOME people would rage up a storm on where the children characters are.

They could have done it better, of course, but somehow, I don't think the Deeprealms are that bad of an idea. Even though I kinda wish they had made the children into first gen units, so then it wouldn't feel weird to marry one of them, because marrying the children of your friends and consequently making them into grandparents at barely twenty-something years of age (even worse when you consider Elise, who is 14 at the oldest or Sakura, whom I think is no older than 16) has always been a weird concept to me, even back in Awakening.

Well I THINK the legal age of having sex in Japan is around 15-17 and marriage 18+. Not 100% certain about that but if it's true, Fates did get made by a Japanese company and was released there first so it kinda would make sense.

Edited June 10, 2016 by AuraDragoness

[Abvora]

Also, you have to take into account that they didn't just have the kid and leave them to grow up there, if you read some of the Parent-Child conversations the parents did spend time with their children for as long as they were still kids and for as long as they could. If you take into account some of the story dialogue in both BR and CQ and the logic between traveling over thousands and thousands of miles from one kingdom to the other, the whole plot (for both paths) would take two years at most.

I definitely think the plot took several months, I don't consider Hoshido and Nohr to be, like, super-huge. Germany-size each, and you can cross Germany on foot in two weeks. Granted, that's for one person and not an entire army, which would move slower by default since you also have to transport supplies, and it doesn't account for battles or bad weather.

But I definitely don't think it took over a year, or at least not until after the trip to Valla in Revelation, because otherwise Azura would describe the skies switching in Revelation as "a year away" or something.

[Rezzy]

...Right... so... I feel I need to get this off my chest...

...Some part of me practically guarantees that this has been talked about before, but I couldn't see a thread, so...

...The deeprealms were a terrible idea. It was just poorly thought out in so many ways, but most importantly, it automatically makes every single person who reaches a heterosexual S support into a terrible person.

I mean let's be honest: There was no reason to put those kids in the deeprealms. The My Castle is plenty secure and would have been a perfectly safe place for them. Literally the only reason they did it was for gameplay purposes.

And what's worse is that they admit it by having some of the children wind up dysfunctional and call their parents out on being horrible parents. But that only makes it worse! It means they knew the implications of the system and went ahead with it anyway!

But by far the worst parents are Azura and Corrin, if only because they're the ones who can have two children, and then demonstrate breathtaking dickheadery with what to do with them.

THEY PUT THEM IN SEPARATE DEEPREALMS.

Not only do they make them grow up without their parents, they make them grow up without each other! There is literally no reason to do this except programming laziness! It could have easily been done by having Kana or Shigure's sibling tag along in Kana's or Shigure's paralogue.

Like, picture this: say Corrin marries Keaton. Instead of getting two paralogues, you get one, Kana's, and Velouria's there with him, helping him fight off the invaders before Corrin arrives, and maybe Keaton arrives to say one or two stock lines with Velouria, Kana turns into a dragon, and then on turn one Velouria shows up on your team going "Mom! Daddy! I want to help protect Kana!"

This could easily be done for all of the children, and something similar could easily have been done for Shigure. The fact that they didn't do this and instead decide to just roll with the first generation being mega ultra terrible parents astonishes me.

Pretty much views I've agreed with and stated elsewhere. Although I don't know anything about programming. Another solution would be to have every kid in the same Deep Realm, that way, the paralogues don't have to be different, but the supports could reflect the siblings growing up together.

I've got kids of my own, and I find the Babyrealm shoehorn downright abhorrent.

Corrin's also the worst for recruiting Kana. And as acting head of their army, I hold them responsible for all the other kids being recruited, too.

At least have all the kids grow up together! That would have also cut down on the number of mysterious guardians required. The characters sure lucked out in finding so many loyal people willing to raise their kids. ;)

I have enough trouble finding someone to babysit on a Saturday night. Where do they find these never-seen guardians that unquestioningly raise someone else's kid from diapers until adulthood? And why do the kids never bring up their caretakers in their supports? They'd probably feel more of a connection to them than their biological parents. "Hey, Ryoma, screw you! Bob cares more about me and actually spent more than 20 minutes with me growing up!"

[AuraDragoness]

Pretty much views I've agreed with and stated elsewhere. Although I don't know anything about programming. Another solution would be to have every kid in the same Deep Realm, that way, the paralogues don't have to be different, but the supports could reflect the siblings growing up together.

I've got kids of my own, and I find the Babyrealm shoehorn downright abhorrent.

I have enough trouble finding someone to babysit on a Saturday night. Where do they find these never-seen guardians that unquestioningly raise someone else's kid from diapers until adulthood? And why do the kids never bring up their caretakers in their supports? They'd probably feel more of a connection to them than their biological parents. "Hey, Ryoma, screw you! Bob cares more about me and actually spent more than 20 minutes with me growing up!"

Reality wise the only reason I think they didn't put all the kids in the same realm is simple: Coding that would be very hard and with the constant pestering for a release date by the fanbase I don't think they had the time to code it. Also, like I said, its painfully obvious that the whole thing with the children was added to appease the "WHY U NO ADD WAIFU'S 1!one!!" people. :/

As far as in game goes...I picture the deeprealms are separate worlds that are no different than the one the story takes place in. There's towns, farms, maybe even kingdoms for all we know. If you read the Parent-Child conversations it seems like the parents stayed with the kid until they reached the age of 10-15 (however long that took) and after that visited when they could.

Edited June 10, 2016 by AuraDragoness

[Alastor15243]

Reality wise the only reason I think they didn't put all the kids in the same realm is simple: Coding that would be very hard and with the constant pestering for a release date by the fanbase I don't think they had the time to code it. Also, like I said, its painfully obvious that the whole thing with the children was added to appease the "WHY U NO ADD WAIFU'S 1!one!!" people. :/

"Same deeprealm" as in all of the paralogues take place in different parts of the same deeprealm, say they lived in a massive extradimensional mansion or something and each battle took place in a different part of it, with the clear indication that they aren't isolated from each other.

Edited June 10, 2016 by Alastor15243

[AuraDragoness]

"Same deeprealm" as in all of the paralogues take place in different parts of the same deeprealm, say they lived in a massive extradimensional mansion or something and each battle took place in a different part of it, with the clear indication that they aren't isolated from each other.

Ah, yeah that probably would have been a better idea but oh well, that's what headcannons exist for. :D

[Rezzy]

"Same deeprealm" as in all of the paralogues take place in different parts of the same deeprealm, say they lived in a massive extradimensional mansion or something and each battle took place in a different part of it, with the clear indication that they aren't isolated from each other.

Yeah, that's what I meant, if I wasn't clear. It would also help with the character backstories, insomuch that they'd have known each other growing up and you could get some chemistry out of that, like the Awakening 2nd Gen units. As is, they're all a bit boring having all been raised in a vacuum, without much happening to them before zombies invaded their babyrealm.

[Lann La Mirah]

I find it so funny that the game EMPHASIZES Corrin's relationship with his/her siblings, yet Shigure and Kana (if he has siblings) are raised separately from them and don't seem the closest with them. It's understandable with how many options there are, but it just strikes me as really funny.

[NekoKnight]

The whole thing is really screwy time-wise, with parents spending undisclosed amounts of time in the baby-realm (not to mention those magic 1 day pregnancies), but I just realized another problem with it. So we can say that every 1st gen parent is stupid and irresponsible for having children in the middle of a war, but what does that say about the characters who have a SECOND child (anyone married to Azura of Femui)? They know full well how bad an idea it was to have children at this time but said "lol, lets get another bun in the oven". And then there is Kamui getting married to a 2nd gen and having a child, knowing the sort of damage that will do to a child.

It's kind of sad how close the Avatar is with Kanna, despite them WILLINGLY putting them in that dangerous situation. Fates!children just gets more and more disturbing by the moment.

[Rezzy]

The whole thing is really screwy time-wise, with parents spending undisclosed amounts of time in the baby-realm (not to mention those magic 1 day pregnancies), but I just realized another problem with it. So we can say that every 1st gen parent is stupid and irresponsible for having children in the middle of a war, but what does that say about the characters who have a SECOND child (anyone married to Azura of Femui)? They know full well how bad an idea it was to have children at this time but said "lol, lets get another bun in the oven". And then there is Kamui getting married to a 2nd gen and having a child, knowing the sort of damage that will do to a child.

It's kind of sad how close the Avatar is with Kanna, despite them WILLINGLY putting them in that dangerous situation. Fates!children just gets more and more disturbing by the moment.

I can't really fault them for having the kids, just the way they handle having them. Under stress, the best way to relieve it is going for a roll in the hay with your spouse, and then babies happen.

[Res]

I find it so funny that the game EMPHASIZES Corrin's relationship with his/her siblings, yet Shigure and Kana (if he has siblings) are raised separately from them and don't seem the closest with them. It's understandable with how many options there are, but it just strikes me as really funny.

Yes!!! For a game whose theme revolves so heavily around the idea of family, having a second generation makes even less sense.

[Aurabolt]

The strange thing is that the way the post-first-S-rank narrative says it, it sounds like the deeprealms weren't decided on until after the baby was born. Otherwise the concern wouldn't be about "where is a safe place for our children other than the obvious castle that we're just going to ignore", but rather "is t really safe to have pregnant women fighting?". So it seems that, yes, the game expects you to believe that the actual childbirth basically happens instantly.

To answer the rhetorical question, yes in most cases or rather I wouldn't have a problem with it. I don't see it happening though for obvious reasons. It would be...problematic especially for Garon to find out BR!FeCorrin is pregnant. While the whole insta-pregnancy + birth thing is assumed by everyone who's commented so far, I think it plays out in real time. The couple presumably spends the duration of the pregnancy in their child's deeprealm with help from Lilith. She woud be the most knowledgable on the subject so...yeah.

My theory is with everyone except FeCorrin, Velouria and Selkie's mothers they keep fighting until their pregnancy makes it physically impossible for them. Then they go to their kid's assigned deeprealm for the remainder of the pregnancy. For FeCorrin, being half-dragon means extra precautions need to be made since she knows nothing about how her mixed blood will effect the pregnancy, let alone her unborn child. I chuckle at the idea of Ma!Kana being born in dragon form (LOL!) and Corrin freaking out or going "Aww, how cute <3"

Same with Kaden and Keaton's mates. The mixed blood of the unborn child would make the pregnancy more than a bit complicated. The cravings alone would be something else (LOL). The mother will likely spend the pregnancy in their kids' deeprealm as a precaution. With Fe!Kana's mother the human side would be dominant so she'd probably be born in human form.

...Anyways this is a Fire Emnlem game not The Sims. They can afford to not go into the little details. LOL.

[BlueBloodEmblazer]

One of the things that bothers me the most, is that some of the first gen characters don't look like they could become pregnant, go through a 9 month pregnancy, have a baby, still be able to take part in the war. Look at Elise... does that look like a lady who could be pregnant? No it doesn't. In Awakening the only people who actually have a baby before endgame is Chrom, and his 4-5 waifus.

Another thing is that the same characters who hate their deeprealms upbringing can also marry the avatar, have a Kana, send Kana to the deeprealms. And I'm like, seriously?

Edited June 11, 2016 by BlueBloodEmblazer

[Rezzy]

Yes!!! For a game whose theme revolves so heavily around the idea of family, having a second generation makes even less sense.

Corrin: I was raised in isolation in a castle, so let's raise my kids in isolation in separate dimensions.

To answer the rhetorical question, yes in most cases or rather I wouldn't have a problem with it. I don't see it happening though for obvious reasons. It would be...problematic especially for Garon to find out BR!FeCorrin is pregnant. While the whole insta-pregnancy + birth thing is assumed by everyone who's commented so far, I think it plays out in real time. The couple presumably spends the duration of the pregnancy in their child's deeprealm with help from Lilith. She woud be the most knowledgable on the subject so...yeah.

My theory is with everyone except FeCorrin, Velouria and Selkie's mothers they keep fighting until their pregnancy makes it physically impossible for them. Then they go to their kid's assigned deeprealm for the remainder of the pregnancy. For FeCorrin, being half-dragon means extra precautions need to be made since she knows nothing about how her mixed blood will effect the pregnancy, let alone her unborn child. I chuckle at the idea of Ma!Kana being born in dragon form (LOL!) and Corrin freaking out or going "Aww, how cute <3"

Same with Kaden and Keaton's mates. The mixed blood of the unborn child would make the pregnancy more than a bit complicated. The cravings alone would be something else (LOL). The mother will likely spend the pregnancy in their kids' deeprealm as a precaution. With Fe!Kana's mother the human side would be dominant so she'd probably be born in human form.

...Anyways this is a Fire Emnlem game not The Sims. They can afford to not go into the little details. LOL.

More evidence that FemCorrin lays eggs.

It would be great if I could go spend 9 months in the hyperbolic time chamber and just announce to my family that I had another kid.

Another thing is that the same characters who hate their deeprealms upbringing can also marry the avatar, have a Kana, send Kana to the deeprealms. And I'm like, seriously?

Their motto is to "Do unto others as they did unto me".

[Res]

And let's not forget how every couple manages to conceive immediately and how there's zero complications amongst the group.

[Alastor15243]

The whole thing is really screwy time-wise, with parents spending undisclosed amounts of time in the baby-realm (not to mention those magic 1 day pregnancies), but I just realized another problem with it. So we can say that every 1st gen parent is stupid and irresponsible for having children in the middle of a war, but what does that say about the characters who have a SECOND child (anyone married to Azura of Femui)? They know full well how bad an idea it was to have children at this time but said "lol, lets get another bun in the oven". And then there is Kamui getting married to a 2nd gen and having a child, knowing the sort of damage that will do to a child.

I kind of assumed they were twins who were of different ages because they were put in different babyrealms. But as I've said, the parents who have two kids are totally fucked up for ANOTHER reason.

[December Knight]

I kind of assumed they were twins who were of different ages because they were put in different babyrealms. But as I've said, the parents who have two kids are totally fucked up for ANOTHER reason.

But that doesn't make any sense, as almost none of the kiddos have the same birthday as Shigure/Kana (other then sharing a birth month but that's different then being twins and even then that depends on whether or not you have Azura marry Azama and/or have female!Corrin marry Hayato).

So unless the babyrealm also changed the kiddos' birthdays as well as making them age faster, I don't think Shigure/Kana can have a twin brother/sister.

...Unless I misread what you meant and/or I came off as a jerk, if I did then I'm so sorry.

Edited June 11, 2016 by December Knight

[Azure Sen]

I can't be mad at the parents of Fates for the Babyrealms anymore, because drastic out of character actions like this are exactly what happens writers don't even bother trying to integrate mechanics or other things added at the last minute into the game. At this point I just pretend they're kids from the future like they were in Awakening, and they were shunted into their Deeprealms by the alternate universe parents to protect them from Anankos or something.

Edited June 11, 2016 by AzureSen

[Alastor15243]

But that doesn't make any sense, as almost none of the kiddos have the same birthday as Shigure/Kana (other then sharing a birth month but that's different then being twins and even then that depends on whether or not you have Azura marry Azama and/or have female!Corrin marry Hayato).

So unless the babyrealm also changed the kiddos' birthdays as well as making them age faster, I don't think Shigure/Kana can have a twin brother/sister.

...Unless I misread what you meant and/or I came off as a jerk, if I did then I'm so sorry.

The kids having fixed birthdays doesn't make any sense no matter how you slice it, honestly, since birthdays confirm that it's an actual fixed day and that the pregnancies will quite often never reasonably line up with them and the fact that people will still wish you happy birthday both before and after reaching and S support basically belies the entire notion of there actually being a timeskip involved if we take the birthday system seriously at all.