Making Fates' Stories Better

[TadpoleSuperHero]

So, having played through and completed both Conquest and Revelation in Fire Emblem: Fates, I have a lot of thoughts.

Mainly that the stories are pretty terrible. And not just by Fire Emblem standards, but on a general basis. That said, I began thinking - what makes the stories bad? What was so frustrating to me about the stories? And I noticed a lot of things that I'd like to try and conceptually reimagine here. If you guys have any ideas (particularly for Birthright, as I couldn't stomach playing a third route and so have only read the story rather than play through it), let me know!

Part of the reason I also find the stories so almost offensively bad is because the characters are GREAT. They deserved better than this. I really love a lot of the characters, and the support conversations, while not the best in the series, are on par with what I expect from a Fire Emblem game. There are some real standout characters, and the gameplay and level design, especially in Conquest, are some of the best the series has ever had.

Anyway, onto my thoughts on how to change Conquest and Revelation's stories to improve them in a big way.

OBVIOUSLY SPOILERS FOR BOTH CONQUEST AND REVELATION FOLLOW

Conquest

- This first point goes for all three routes - Fates has such a great concept in the way of having two different families, both of which you're meant to feel close to and meant to feel that conflict between them. I wish the games had focused more on their familial themes rather than trying to do far too much. This would also need a better written and perhaps longer prologue (the chapters leading up to the choice split), because you don't get any real sense of your two families, aside from the obvious "I just met my mom and now she's dead because of a sword I got from Garon so duhhhh Nohr's evil and Hoshido's good and I should definitely side with the good guys." I don't have any real understanding of the eight siblings by the time the split comes along, and that's a real shame, and a huge missed opportunity.

- Now for Conquest itself. The plotline revolves around invading Hoshido and putting Garon on the throne that will reveal his true nature, and thus take down Nohr. What? So you willingly go along with Garon's orders, commit horrible atrocities against innocent people (yeah, you make sure not to kill people, but your good deeds are frequently undone by Hans and Iago, who you do nothing about until the very end of the game), all for the sake of putting Garon on a throne of truth to hopefully reveal his true nature and convince Nohr to go against him? That's absurd, especially since most Nohrians we meet, aside from Corrin's siblings, show themselves to be perfectly willing to go along with horrid acts... why would they care if their liege lord is an evil, possessed psychopath? They'd probably just use it as an excuse to put someone else - equally evil - in control of Nohr.

- So what do I propose? Well, first of all, the Conquest campaign would take place almost entirely within Nohr itself. The goal would be this: win over the Nohrian people, incite a revolution, and take the throne and the rest of Nohr's power structure back from the murderers in charge and remake Nohr as a place that can coexist with Hoshido. Corrin would have to travel to Nohrian towns, interact with the people, and this would offer a great chance to see that Nohr isn't just "the evil nation." There may be evil people in charge, but we could get a deeper look at how not everyone in Nohr is aware or okay with the atrocities their country is committing. Characters could be recruited to your cause because they believe that Nohr needs to be changed, that they agree with the revolution, that they want to take down Garon and put someone just on the throne. Along the way, you'd also be dealing with Hans and Iago (primary antagonists here) as they try to hunt down the revolutionary army. Once again, there would be a variety of objectives that would play into the story itself - protecting an objective against an overwhelming force to buy time for innocent people to escape (most chapters would have you outnumbered and outgunned, forcing tactical expertise as would befit fighting as a small force to retake a huge country), "escape" style objectives like in the GCN games that actually serve a purpose (there may not be bonus EXP, but having certain rewards if you are able to escape in a certain amount of time), and so on.

- The game's story would ultimately be about inspiring the people of Nohr, rejecting the rule of King Garon, proving yourself a hero as you refuse to take on Garon's murderous orders and instead fight back against him. This would also offer greater recruiting moments and depth to Nohrian characters, giving Charlotte and Benny interesting motivations (as you're openly opposing Nohrian rule, unlike the original story). Your siblings would also be afforded more depth and complexity. They've spent their lives following Garon's orders while doing their best to oppose him in the shadows - now the adopted brother they care so much about dares to do what they've likely wanted to do for a long time: oppose Garon openly. Xander would likely be the most conflicted, offering interesting conversations and perhaps even presenting him as an enemy at one point in the story before he comes to your side.

- This new direction would also offer more of a purpose for your Hoshidan family, as well as Kaze and Rinkah whom you saved early in the story. I still don't get why Kaze joins you in the original Conquest storyline, considering you're actively following Garon's orders with only slight alterations. Your Hoshidan siblings may even come to your aid, but perhaps you would openly reject their aid. If Nohr isn't saved by Nohrians, what state will the country be left in when the revolution is over? Will Nohr's revolution feel earned if they receive outside help? Yet Kaze, Rinkah, even Scarlet could likely join your cause more effectively than your Hoshidan siblings, but you'd still be given more emotionally resonant and hard-hitting interactions with them, asking tough questions and facing the reality of war and the politics involved with a revolution.

- The end game would have you eventually having the people rise up enough that you can make a strong push into the capital, defeating Hans, Iago, and then finally Garon, who would reveal his true nature in the final chapter in order to unleash as much power against you as possible. Take him down, restore the kingdom, and find peace with Hoshido.

NOTES: Part of the reason I was so excited about Conquest's storyline was because of it being initially advertised as "change your country from within." What we instead got was "follow the evil king's orders, kill your Hoshidan siblings, conquer another country, all for the sake of revealing the evil king's true nature." And it really rubbed me the wrong way. Let me know your thoughts on this please! Revelation's story is in the following post.

Edited June 23, 2016 by TadpoleSuperHero

[TadpoleSuperHero]

Revelation

- First, my main issues with Revelation's story. 1) It spends its last half all in Valla, What's going on in Nohr and Hoshido? You've taken the entire royal families of both nations away, while they're at war with each other. Nohr still has Garon and Iago, but Hoshido has... Yukimura? Yeah, Hoshido's basically screwed while you go on an astral journey. 2) Working off that last point, what happens to Nohr and Hoshido? What happens to Garon? Iago? Hans? There's still a freaking war going on, and Hans and Iago are definitely not Valla-possessed, so they'll go and kill Hoshidans no matter what world-saving act you do.

- Here's my biggest problem with Revelation: YOU CAN'T SPEAK THE NAME OF VALLA OR ANANKOS OUTSIDE OF VALLA. What??? A curse that makes you disappear? And let's not ignore the fact that you travel to the Astral Realm - Valla - in all three stories! Yet Azura only tells you about Anankos in Revelation? It's absurd.

- So first of all, I propose we remove the curse. You can totally speak Anankos' name, talk about Valla outside of Valla, all that good stuff. You still have to convince people of his existence, though - it's not like there are books talking about him or like school teaches Vallan history. A simple change that makes things less aggravatingly moronic.

- Next, we need to somehow stop the war on the ground before, during, or after defeating Anankos. I would propose the first. The whole "when the skies change over Hoshido and Nohr" plot doesn't make much sense anyway, since it's been demonstrated that anyone can go to Valla at any time if they know how. We don't need a time limit on going to Valla, so let's somehow bring the ground war to a ceasefire before hitting up Valla. Take out Hans, take out Iago, set up defenses and systems in place so that Hoshido can hold its ground against a Nohrian army that's scattered and weakened without its power structure. Explain that Garon will just sort of... die... when Anankos is defeated (it's implied as much in Revelation). THEN we go to Valla.

- Next is Valla. Hoo, boy. What a failure of a ruined kingdom. Why does no one live here? And even if there is a good reason, it doesn't help to make Valla empty, it feels like we're fighting for nothing. Let's have Vallites living in hiding, in fear, trying to survive under Anankos' rule without obeying him. Have some Vallan stakes, rather than just "this is the evil guy's lair where we kill him" kind of thing. Even have one or two brand new characters, Vallite recruits that join your cause, add some layers to this third nation and give it a reason for existing, and also a place worth ruling (since Corrin takes the throne at the end).

- Along with existing living Vallites, this will make a traitorous Vallite more believable and less predictable. You've already made a friend or two among the Vallites, so why wouldn't you trust this kid? And then he walks you into a trap and it's far more surprising and emotionally earned.

- On the subject of Gunter and Scarlet: For Gunter, I could actually have him NOT be a puppet of Anankos. He ended up in Valla, and met up with the Vallan people who are in hiding. He could even be the one who introduces you to your new Vallan recruits. Scarlet also doesn't need to die, allowing her potential relationship with Ryoma to be canon in this story? Maybe in Revelation Corrin can't marry Ryoma or Xander since they need to lead their own nations. It's a thought.

- As for the revived Mikoto, Sumeragi, and Azura's mother... I don't mind that subplot. I do think it comes out of nowhere and ends up derailing the main story, fishing for emotional resonance. However, what if we integrate that into the Vallan state of affairs? Perhaps Mikoto, Sumeragi, and Azura's mom (I can't for the life of me remember her name) each be leading different factions or armies in Valla. Maybe even one or two or all three of them are masquerading as good guys among the Vallan people, before betraying them. Integrating them into the Vallan state of affairs is my main concern here, so that they don't just end up dragging down the pacing. Have the players able to wonder why these three are alive, how they're alive, and even when it's revealed that it's a plot by Anankos, don't just have them be purely evil puppets. Each of them cares deeply for their children - let's hook onto those themes of family and have each of the parents, in their own way, fight back against Anankos' control and, although we may have to fight them, they do have some final act of rebellion that saves their children and weakens Anankos. Maybe even one of them is a temporary ally, before they finally fade as Anankos releases them, seeing that he can't control them.

- On top of that, have Valla's culture revolve around the floating islands, mysterious technology/magic, and displacement from the rest of the world. Have some worldbuilding! Have the people there who aren't under Anankos' thumb offer advice, guidance, and lore to make Valla not just feel like an endgame level, but a third nation worth saving.

- With all of that combined, I feel that would drastically improve the pacing of Revelation, while also making the entire venture feel important, emotionally resonant, and worth undertaking. The war on the surface is halted, Valla is saved, and the royal families return to their nations and bring about an era of peace.

If anyone has any ideas for Birthright, or further thoughts on my own ideas for Conquest and Revelation, discuss them please. Would love to hear your thoughts!

[NekoKnight]

Your ideas for Conquest is basically what they advertised and people got hyped for, pre-release. It certainly would have been an improvement over the mess we got in the actual story.

Here's what I would identify as the critical failures of the story:

All Routes

World building. This game has 2 primary factions (and one hidden kingdom) but we learn next to nothing about them. These are completely separate and unique cultures (one would think) but never is the difference of cultures or the structure of their societies discussed. What are the politics, economics, history and religion? What am I supposed to get invested in when County X invades Country Y? We have all these actors but they forgot to include the setting!

Nuanced villains. I'll get into this more later but a good story has a good antagonist. Fates villains' evilness is so contrived, it falls into self-parody.

Conquest

Apart from not living up to its premise of "revolutionizing the country from within", Conquest fails because its protagonist doesn't fit the story they're trying to tell. Kamui is a moral paragon so everything he does in Conquest is lunacy. He (and all of his siblings) serve an obviously evil overlord on his quest for world domination. It's clear that they aren't doing the right thing but they go along with it because they've convinced themselves that somehow they're doing the world a favor by conquering a peaceful nation.

There are two ways I might go about fixing this issue.

1. Make the conquest sympathetic. Say the conquest is necessary because Nohr is starving and Hoshido has all the food and resources they need to survive. Say that Hoshido wrong them in the past, or that Hoshido is just has opportunistic and power hungry. If you want to have a heroic protagonist involved in a conquest, you're going to need some heroic motivations. What we got was a spineless coward who deluded himself into thinking he was a hero.

2. Make the villainous faction (Nohr) human and sympathetic. Look at the way the Lannisters are handled in GoT. They often act as an antagonistic force to the "good" characters but they have good (albeit flawed) characters as well as evil ones. Even the ones who are quite villainous are well developed and do what they do for more than petty evilness. This is what Nohr lacks. Garon, Iago and Hanz are as one-dimensional as you can get and it's a wonder that murdering them isn't the top point of the heroes' agenda.

Revelations

As this represents the "full story" (although I'd call it the most empty and boring route), this has all the flaws of other two routes.

Concerning the curse, from a meta perspective, it only exists to allow the 3rd route to exist. There would be no reason for a Birthright or Conquest if Aqua actually focused on getting everyone to Valla. This doesn't mean the curse is necessarily a bad element. The curse by itself is fine, the flaw is that it's not nearly as ironclad as the story wants to admit. You can actually mention the curse and it's affects without triggering it. You can even speak of Valla vaguely, as long as you don't mention the specifics or names. Personally, I wouldn't have the 3rd kingdom at all because there is already a goldmine of potential for the first two kingdoms.

Going back to the world building aspect, Valla is the worst because everyone is already dead, so no one exists to talk about anything. We don't learn anything about this mysterious realm, or even the antagonist who made it that way. It's just a void, that eventually disappears altogether. If I were to redo the story, I would go a lot more in depth about this kingdom and Anankos. This guy can bring back even the souls of the dead and all it's used for is Naruto-esque "Well done son" moments with the main characters' parents.

Conclusion

Fates has an awesome framework that is completely squandered.

[vanguard333]

I agree that all three routes could've been better written (especially in worldbuilding). I think they should've shown the Nohr sewer-market in both Conquest and Birthright, rather than just Birthright.

Just one thing: weren't Hans and Iago killed in chapter 16 of Revelation; and wasn't Garon pretty much insane and unable to give orders in Revelation?

[Nihilon]

Conclusion

Fates has an awesome framework that is completely squandered.

Summed it up nicely there. There was so much potential in contrasting Nohr and Hoshido, but instead, Hoshidans are all pure and good and just while Nohrians are (with the exception of the playable characters) all irredeemably evil jackasses (I heard that this was even worse in the Japanese version, with Hoshidans being pure, incorruptible good. At least in the localization, they are somewhat distrustful and xenophobic.). What's even more bizarre is, as OP suggested, that there is actually a famine in Nohr, and attacking Hoshido for their fertile farmlands would have been a ruthless, if perfectly valid reason for war... except it's 100% clear that Garon only started the war because Big Bad Dragon Daddy Anankos told him to... and the icing on the cake is that the whole thing about the famine is only mentioned in Birthright, near the end. What?

There's also the fact that certain key information (for example, Anankos being Corrin's dad) isn't revealed in the main game, but is relegated to Hidden Truths instead. Speaking of HT, 90% of Lilith's characterization is also stuck in that DLC, including that completely unimportant thing where she is Corrin's freaking sister.

Fates had such an incredible amount of potential to be an epic, gripping, dramatic story... to throw it all away in favour of a generic good versus evil plot. If it's any consolation, I have little doubt that fanfiction will soon begin to plug the holes left by the devs...

[Raguna]

Just one thing: weren't Hans and Iago killed in chapter 16 of Revelation; and wasn't Garon pretty much insane and unable to give orders in Revelation?

Yep, so unimportant were they in that route that you'd hardly even remember them as the bosses of chapter 16 and 17 respectively. They were pretty much wholly inept handling that route in my eyes and the only thing I personally liked about Valla mapwise is the map we're you need to go through red or blue doors. Although you sometimes wonder how the hell people can communicate and act friendly when by the end they're pretty much confirmed to be the enemy boss for that chapter, Mikoto...

Edited June 23, 2016 by Raguna

[saisymbolic]

I like your ideas for Conquest and Revelations. I mentioned on an older post similar to this one that I would have preferred Garon as a human that was subtly being influenced by Anankos over the course of the story, showing brief out of character moments that made his children suspicious but could essentially be brushed off as him "having a bad day" so that it could give the Nohrian siblings more of a reason to side with their father and against Corrin during Conquest.

The problem with BR is that it is so standard and inoffensive that, in order to change it, one would have to likely change some character portrayals and some of the elements of Hoshido itself.

[IfAwakened]

BR: I'm very mad that they didn't have Takumi turn into a dragon Ch. 25. I thought it was brain dead obvious he was going to; he was snarling and growling, and acting very animalistic (killkillkilldiediedie) and apparenly that was all Iago, and Azura can "remove the hex" by singing the EXACT SAME SONG THAT SHE SUNG WHEN CORRIN TURNED INTO A DRAGON! Hurray for "Plot" (what plot) convience.

That pisses me off so much; such a wasted opportunity. Takumi wants to be noticed, and for him to be the elephant (try feral dragon) in the room that would fit so much. Azura's scene trying to sing to Takumi is such a pointless scene; I thought we established he was free of the hex by chapter 10? Takumi would instead be the boss of Chapter 25 instead of Iago (again).

So stupid, such a waste.

Edited June 23, 2016 by IfAwakened

[TadpoleSuperHero]

I like your ideas for Conquest and Revelations. I mentioned on an older post similar to this one that I would have preferred Garon as a human that was subtly being influenced by Anankos over the course of the story, showing brief out of character moments that made his children suspicious but could essentially be brushed off as him "having a bad day" so that it could give the Nohrian siblings more of a reason to side with their father and against Corrin during Conquest.

The problem with BR is that it is so standard and inoffensive that, in order to change it, one would have to likely change some character portrayals and some of the elements of Hoshido itself.

I agree about Garon, although there would need to be a lot of work to make him not obviously the villain. Then again, cutting Anankos completely out of the story and having Garon be kind of an Ashnard - doing horrible things of his own free will and with a more human motivation - would have been pretty fantastic. Honestly, having played Conquest and Revelation and having read the story of Birthright, I think Anankos, and even Valla itself, is a huge detriment to the overall framework of Fates.

It could have been a story of two nations at war, with a child struggling in the midst of the conflict as they have family on both sides - the family they were raised with, and their birth family. Having a supernatural deity-like monster dragon manipulating everything behind the scenes just undercuts the emotional resonance the title could have had (not to mention, having the team's efforts spread between three separate stories had to take its toll on the overall quality of the final product). But at the same time, if Valla and Anankos HAVE to exist, I like my ideas for Revelation - they absolutely could have turned those ideas into something great. But that's Fates - great characters, great gameplay, but a massive, painful missed opportunity of a story.

[SniperGYS]

What you say about Nohr is what is keeping me away of of playing it. I will play Nohr, but I feel bad for playing that story haha

- So what do I propose? Well, first of all, the Conquest campaign would take place almost entirely within Nohr itself. The goal would be this: win over the Nohrian people, incite a revolution, and take the throne and the rest of Nohr's power structure back from the murderers in charge and remake Nohr as a place that can coexist with Hoshido. Corrin would have to travel to Nohrian towns, interact with the people, and this would offer a great chance to see that Nohr isn't just "the evil nation." There may be evil people in charge, but we could get a deeper look at how not everyone in Nohr is aware or okay with the atrocities their country is committing. Characters could be recruited to your cause because they believe that Nohr needs to be changed, that they agree with the revolution, that they want to take down Garon and put someone just on the throne. Along the way, you'd also be dealing with Hans and Iago (primary antagonists here) as they try to hunt down the revolutionary army. Once again, there would be a variety of objectives that would play into the story itself - protecting an objective against an overwhelming force to buy time for innocent people to escape (most chapters would have you outnumbered and outgunned, forcing tactical expertise as would befit fighting as a small force to retake a huge country), "escape" style objectives like in the GCN games that actually serve a purpose (there may not be bonus EXP, but having certain rewards if you are able to escape in a certain amount of time), and so on.

Now here you mention a Revolution in Nohr, that is exactly what Scarlet wanted to do, maybe, part of the story could had involve helping her to start the Revolution and stop Garon, also convincing the siblings to join the cause. Aww, now I think that Scarlet could have been a better main character for Nohr.

BR: I'm very mad that they didn't have Takumi turn into a dragon Ch. 25. I thought it was brain dead obvious he was going to; he was snarling and growling, and acting very animalistic (killkillkilldiediedie) and apparenly that was all Iago, and Azura can "remove the hex" by singing the EXACT SAME SONG THAT SHE SUNG WHEN CORRIN TURNED INTO A DRAGON! Hurray for "Plot" (what plot) convience.

That pisses me off so much; such a wasted opportunity. Takumi wants to be noticed, and for him to be the elephant (try feral dragon) in the room that would fit so much. Azura's scene trying to sing to Takumi is such a pointless scene; I thought we established he was free of the hex by chapter 10? Takumi would instead be the boss of Chapter 25 instead of Iago (again).

So stupid, such a waste.

I would have loved this! And actually, I was expecting Takumi to be the boss in that chapter... No wait, you know what? Maybe having this chapter as a two part chapter? First part with Dragon-Takumi (he has dragon blood, so Anankos can use that to force a transformation somehow) as the boss, and after defeating him and getting him back in your team, Iago appearing as the second boss and you fight him normally, keeping Takumi's dialogue with him. That would have been better for Takumi also, like giving the siblings (and maybe his retainers and kid) pre-battle talks with him in which they express how they care for him and want him to come back with them, that can work with the part of him learning that everyone believe and care for him... Ah, now I want this in the game, but we will never have it mmmm, damn it, Dragon-Takumi sounds soo good

[IfAwakened]

What you say about Nohr is what is keeping me away of of playing it. I will play Nohr, but I feel bad for playing that story haha

Now here you mention a Revolution in Nohr, that is exactly what Scarlet wanted to do, maybe, part of the story could had involve helping her to start the Revolution and stop Garon, also convincing the siblings to join the cause. Aww, now I think that Scarlet could have been a better main character for Nohr.

I would have loved this! And actually, I was expecting Takumi to be the boss in that chapter... No wait, you know what? Maybe having this chapter as a two part chapter? First part with Dragon-Takumi (he has dragon blood, so Anankos can use that to force a transformation somehow) as the boss, and after defeating him and getting him back in your team, Iago appearing as the second boss and you fight him normally, keeping Takumi's dialogue with him. That would have been better for Takumi also, like giving the siblings (and maybe his retainers and kid) pre-battle talks with him in which they express how they care for him and want him to come back with them, that can work with the part of him learning that everyone believe and care for him... Ah, now I want this in the game, but we will never have it mmmm, damn it, Dragon-Takumi sounds soo good

This is a Reddit thread I posted a while back, arguing this very thing...

https://www.reddit.com/r/fireemblem/comments/4ge399/i_kept_expecting_takumi_in_birthright_to/

[Sentinel07]

As others have said, Anankos and Valla as a whole did the story no favors.

So much more could have been done if they had just focused on making Birthright and Conquest as good as they could be. I'm not sure how Corrin's dragon powers and Azura's singing would have worked without Valla, but it probably could have been done.

And I often thought of Dragon-Takumi as well, though I always thought of it making a good Conquest Endgame boss. We never saw the Dawn Dragon used at all.

[RedRob]

I been doing some heavy thinking about how to improve the story. Here's what I came up with.

Worldbuliding

• The First Dragons are now the leaders of their own tribe of Humans and Dragons, with every tribe living together in the continent-wide Kingdom of Valla, which is ruled by First Dragons. Civil war erupts between them and their tribes, resulting in mass casualties, due to heavy use of the Dragon's Vein. Dragons are nearly driven extinct, with humans only surviving due to a previously huge population. Fearing extinction themselves, a rebel group create a special type of song that weaken those with dragonic blood to overthrow their rulers and stop the fighting. The First Dragons are defeated after more bloodshed, and sign a treaty saying they will protect and bless the Kingdom while the humans govern themselves. The Vallite Royal Family is formed, but many tribesmens, after seeing how much of Valla is in ruins due to the war, leave and set out on their own. The First Dragons spread themselves across the land to help the land grow and protect it, while their lesser kin stay behind to protect Valla.
• The individual countries are formed, many worshipping the Dragon that protect their area of the continent and Valla fades into obscurity, being remembered as a fairy tale, not an actual kingdom.
• The Dusk Dragon of Nohr is worshipped for it's ability to bring rain to the land, helping what little farmland there is grow, while Nohr invades and plunders other lands to compensate for the lack of farmland. At the start of the story, the rain has not fallen in many years, leading to increased strife, both in and outside the country.
• The Dawn Dragon establishes order among a tribe in constant civil war over who will rule the bountiful land they control, leading to the eventual formation of Hoshido, and the establishment of it as the country's guardian deity.

I'll write more later, since writing tires me out.

[Sentinel07]

I been doing some heavy thinking about how to improve the story. Here's what I came up with.

Worldbuliding

• The First Dragons are now the leaders of their own tribe of Humans and Dragons, with every tribe living together in the continent-wide Kingdom of Valla, which is ruled by First Dragons. Civil war erupts between them and their tribes, resulting in mass casualties, due to heavy use of the Dragon's Vein. Dragons are nearly driven extinct, with humans only surviving due to a previously huge population. Fearing extinction themselves, a rebel group create a special type of song that weaken those with dragonic blood to overthrow their rulers and stop the fighting. The First Dragons are defeated after more bloodshed, and sign a treaty saying they will protect and bless the Kingdom while the humans govern themselves. The Vallite Royal Family is formed, but many tribesmens, after seeing how much of Valla is in ruins due to the war, leave and set out on their own. The First Dragons spread themselves across the land to help the land grow and protect it, while their lesser kin stay behind to protect Valla.
• The individual countries are formed, many worshipping the Dragon that protect their area of the continent and Valla fades into obscurity, being remembered as a fairy tale, not an actual kingdom.
• The Dusk Dragon of Nohr is worshipped for it's ability to bring rain to the land, helping what little farmland there is grow, while Nohr invades and plunders other lands to compensate for the lack of farmland. At the start of the story, the rain has not fallen in many years, leading to increased strife, both in and outside the country.
• The Dawn Dragon establishes order among a tribe in constant civil war over who will rule the bountiful land they control, leading to the eventual formation of Hoshido, and the establishment of it as the country's guardian deity.

I'll write more later, since writing tires me out.

I already like what I'm reading. I'm quite intrigued. :)

[May]

NOTES: Part of the reason I was so excited about Conquest's storyline was because of it being initially advertised as "change your country from within." What we instead got was "follow the evil king's orders, kill your Hoshidan siblings, conquer another country, all for the sake of revealing the evil king's true nature." And it really rubbed me the wrong way. Let me know your thoughts on this please! Revelation's story is in the following post.

Exactly what I was thinking.

[Sentinel07]

So, having played through and completed both Conquest and Revelation in Fire Emblem: Fates, I have a lot of thoughts.

Mainly that the stories are pretty terrible. And not just by Fire Emblem standards, but on a general basis. That said, I began thinking - what makes the stories bad? What was so frustrating to me about the stories? And I noticed a lot of things that I'd like to try and conceptually reimagine here. If you guys have any ideas (particularly for Birthright, as I couldn't stomach playing a third route and so have only read the story rather than play through it), let me know!

Part of the reason I also find the stories so almost offensively bad is because the characters are GREAT. They deserved better than this. I really love a lot of the characters, and the support conversations, while not the best in the series, are on par with what I expect from a Fire Emblem game. There are some real standout characters, and the gameplay and level design, especially in Conquest, are some of the best the series has ever had.

Anyway, onto my thoughts on how to change Conquest and Revelation's stories to improve them in a big way.

OBVIOUSLY SPOILERS FOR BOTH CONQUEST AND REVELATION FOLLOW

Conquest

- This first point goes for all three routes - Fates has such a great concept in the way of having two different families, both of which you're meant to feel close to and meant to feel that conflict between them. I wish the games had focused more on their familial themes rather than trying to do far too much. This would also need a better written and perhaps longer prologue (the chapters leading up to the choice split), because you don't get any real sense of your two families, aside from the obvious "I just met my mom and now she's dead because of a sword I got from Garon so duhhhh Nohr's evil and Hoshido's good and I should definitely side with the good guys." I don't have any real understanding of the eight siblings by the time the split comes along, and that's a real shame, and a huge missed opportunity.

- Now for Conquest itself. The plotline revolves around invading Hoshido and putting Garon on the throne that will reveal his true nature, and thus take down Nohr. What? So you willingly go along with Garon's orders, commit horrible atrocities against innocent people (yeah, you make sure not to kill people, but your good deeds are frequently undone by Hans and Iago, who you do nothing about until the very end of the game), all for the sake of putting Garon on a throne of truth to hopefully reveal his true nature and convince Nohr to go against him? That's absurd, especially since most Nohrians we meet, aside from Corrin's siblings, show themselves to be perfectly willing to go along with horrid acts... why would they care if their liege lord is an evil, possessed psychopath? They'd probably just use it as an excuse to put someone else - equally evil - in control of Nohr.

- So what do I propose? Well, first of all, the Conquest campaign would take place almost entirely within Nohr itself. The goal would be this: win over the Nohrian people, incite a revolution, and take the throne and the rest of Nohr's power structure back from the murderers in charge and remake Nohr as a place that can coexist with Hoshido. Corrin would have to travel to Nohrian towns, interact with the people, and this would offer a great chance to see that Nohr isn't just "the evil nation." There may be evil people in charge, but we could get a deeper look at how not everyone in Nohr is aware or okay with the atrocities their country is committing. Characters could be recruited to your cause because they believe that Nohr needs to be changed, that they agree with the revolution, that they want to take down Garon and put someone just on the throne. Along the way, you'd also be dealing with Hans and Iago (primary antagonists here) as they try to hunt down the revolutionary army. Once again, there would be a variety of objectives that would play into the story itself - protecting an objective against an overwhelming force to buy time for innocent people to escape (most chapters would have you outnumbered and outgunned, forcing tactical expertise as would befit fighting as a small force to retake a huge country), "escape" style objectives like in the GCN games that actually serve a purpose (there may not be bonus EXP, but having certain rewards if you are able to escape in a certain amount of time), and so on.

- The game's story would ultimately be about inspiring the people of Nohr, rejecting the rule of King Garon, proving yourself a hero as you refuse to take on Garon's murderous orders and instead fight back against him. This would also offer greater recruiting moments and depth to Nohrian characters, giving Charlotte and Benny interesting motivations (as you're openly opposing Nohrian rule, unlike the original story). Your siblings would also be afforded more depth and complexity. They've spent their lives following Garon's orders while doing their best to oppose him in the shadows - now the adopted brother they care so much about dares to do what they've likely wanted to do for a long time: oppose Garon openly. Xander would likely be the most conflicted, offering interesting conversations and perhaps even presenting him as an enemy at one point in the story before he comes to your side.

- This new direction would also offer more of a purpose for your Hoshidan family, as well as Kaze and Rinkah whom you saved early in the story. I still don't get why Kaze joins you in the original Conquest storyline, considering you're actively following Garon's orders with only slight alterations. Your Hoshidan siblings may even come to your aid, but perhaps you would openly reject their aid. If Nohr isn't saved by Nohrians, what state will the country be left in when the revolution is over? Will Nohr's revolution feel earned if they receive outside help? Yet Kaze, Rinkah, even Scarlet could likely join your cause more effectively than your Hoshidan siblings, but you'd still be given more emotionally resonant and hard-hitting interactions with them, asking tough questions and facing the reality of war and the politics involved with a revolution.

- The end game would have you eventually having the people rise up enough that you can make a strong push into the capital, defeating Hans, Iago, and then finally Garon, who would reveal his true nature in the final chapter in order to unleash as much power against you as possible. Take him down, restore the kingdom, and find peace with Hoshido.

NOTES: Part of the reason I was so excited about Conquest's storyline was because of it being initially advertised as "change your country from within." What we instead got was "follow the evil king's orders, kill your Hoshidan siblings, conquer another country, all for the sake of revealing the evil king's true nature." And it really rubbed me the wrong way. Let me know your thoughts on this please! Revelation's story is in the following post.

Ugh, Intelligent Systems should have hired you. This is EXACTLY what I imagined Conquest to be like when I heard of the tagline.

[MrMcThrasher]

One of the easiest fixes to Conquest's plot was to not make Garon a cheesy, cartoon villain. He could've been shown as a good-at-heart man and wants the best for his kingdom, and then it slowly become revealed that he's bad news halfway through the "conquest" and then maybe Azura encourages continuing what you started.

Actually, that's one of the main issues too. Azura is one of the single worst written characters in the Fire Emblem series. It could easily been that Corrin uses that crystal to see Garon's true nature and THEN it shatters, but no. Azura uses it just for Corrin and then there's nothing to show the other siblings...

[NekoKnight]

One more weak point in the narrative. The Avatar.

Kamui's story is probably the most intriguing of any FE protagonist to date. Him being torn between to families and nations is great for adding personal investment to the greater narrative. Sadly, this unique background is poorly utilized. In order to make him a better self-insert, he's made a blank canvas where a personality should be. He doesn't grow up embracing Nohrian values and he doesn't experience any culture shock by switching to Hoshido. Worse still is his lack of character growth. Even if the writers wanted to start him off as a naive everyman, he should still be allowed to develop as a character. But his siblings shelter him incessantly, preventing him from learning anything. Revelations makes a point of stomping on his growth by having the siblings tell him "No matter how often and badly you screw up, we'll always bail you out. Your naivete is a good thing!"

Which brings me to another point; Player Worship. A story like this should be morally ambiguous (why give the players a choice if one is so obviously the wrong one?), so neither choice should be the perfect answer to the protagonist's values. Unfortunately, Kamui is never allowed to be wrong, and bad things that happen are blamed on others or excused. It goes to such ridiculous lengths in Conquest that you are actually portrayed as a hero, despite being responsible for the invasion of an innocent nation and the death of two of your siblings.

In a similar vein to pleasing the player at the expense of the narrative is allowing you to marry your siblings. Family is a strong theme to work with but it's completely undermined by the forced pseudo-incest.

In short, making the protagonist a consequence-free self-insert was the worst possible thing they could do with the story.

[Sunwoo]

Honestly, at this point I would've just preferred a typical FE game with the typical plot and only one route. I'd have Birthright be the only path. Valla wouldn't exist, nor would any Valla elements. Kamui and Azura are full sibling and half-sibling, respectively, to their siblings. Kamui can stay the viewpoint character, but Ryouma would officially take charge of the army once he joined. Some of the Nohrian siblings (I'm thinking Leon and Azura at the very least) and their retainers would join the player army, disillusioned or at least in disagreement with their country, and depending on whether you fulfill certain requirements or not you could either choose to kill or spare the other siblings who do not join you. Also, Garon would be a complex villain who's not doing it FOR THE EVULZ but is trying to secure resources for his own country -- by antagonizing an innocent country.

[Dark Sage]

Probably the biggest fix Conquest needs is for Corrin to fully complete her character arc properly. You can still have her remain a naive putz for awhile, but the story would be so much more palatable if it was about a naive, idealistic woman who tries to live up to her ideals while on the wrong side and learns the hard way how the real world works and that she can't have it both ways. I would expect her by the end to do immoral acts, know she's committing immoral acts, and grit her teeth and accept it as a necessary sacrifice for her people. Changing Corrin's arc would be the bare minimum required, but it would be such a huge improvement.

Honestly though, Birthright is also in need of a big rewrite because nothing happens until the end, and even then the pacing is so awful and the characterization is dull. Pacing is a huge problem with the other two routes, but it feels even worse here. The pacing needs to be much more focused and even but the much more brutal nature of BR!Corrin should be examined and criticized. More sympathetic Nohrians other than the royals would be a good start but having her myopic worldview challenged significantly would do wonders.

There's been a lot of topics made about this that I'm a bit burned out on it, but these are just my thoughts

[Sentinel07]

One more weak point in the narrative. The Avatar.

Kamui's story is probably the most intriguing of any FE protagonist to date. Him being torn between to families and nations is great for adding personal investment to the greater narrative. Sadly, this unique background is poorly utilized. In order to make him a better self-insert, he's made a blank canvas where a personality should be. He doesn't grow up embracing Nohrian values and he doesn't experience any culture shock by switching to Hoshido. Worse still is his lack of character growth. Even if the writers wanted to start him off as a naive everyman, he should still be allowed to develop as a character. But his siblings shelter him incessantly, preventing him from learning anything. Revelations makes a point of stomping on his growth by having the siblings tell him "No matter how often and badly you screw up, we'll always bail you out. Your naivete is a good thing!"

Which brings me to another point; Player Worship. A story like this should be morally ambiguous (why give the players a choice if one is so obviously the wrong one?), so neither choice should be the perfect answer to the protagonist's values. Unfortunately, Kamui is never allowed to be wrong, and bad things that happen are blamed on others or excused. It goes to such ridiculous lengths in Conquest that you are actually portrayed as a hero, despite being responsible for the invasion of an innocent nation and the death of two of your siblings.

In a similar vein to pleasing the player at the expense of the narrative is allowing you to marry your siblings. Family is a strong theme to work with but it's completely undermined by the forced pseudo-incest.

In short, making the protagonist a consequence-free self-insert was the worst possible thing they could do with the story.

To be honest, Player Worship is one of the biggest concerns I have going forward, since Avatars are pretty much a sure thing to come back in the next game and beyond.

Intelligent Systems has had the Avatar worshipped by all characters in all 3 games that it's appeared in, and it's gotten worse in each game. It's done nothing to improve the story as well as the IQ levels of the characters.

[TadpoleSuperHero]

One of the easiest fixes to Conquest's plot was to not make Garon a cheesy, cartoon villain. He could've been shown as a good-at-heart man and wants the best for his kingdom, and then it slowly become revealed that he's bad news halfway through the "conquest" and then maybe Azura encourages continuing what you started.

Actually, that's one of the main issues too. Azura is one of the single worst written characters in the Fire Emblem series. It could easily been that Corrin uses that crystal to see Garon's true nature and THEN it shatters, but no. Azura uses it just for Corrin and then there's nothing to show the other siblings...

Azura screws everything up XD. She declines to mention Valla and Anankos despite the perfect opportunity in both BR and Conquest, and then she has a crystal to show Garon's true nature... and ONLY SHOWS CORRIN? Come on, girl. You may have a nice singing voice, but you're one of the worst female characters in the Fire Emblem series by how completely nonsensical and idiotic your plot actions are.

Honestly, at this point I would've just preferred a typical FE game with the typical plot and only one route. I'd have Birthright be the only path. Valla wouldn't exist, nor would any Valla elements. Kamui and Azura are full sibling and half-sibling, respectively, to their siblings. Kamui can stay the viewpoint character, but Ryouma would officially take charge of the army once he joined. Some of the Nohrian siblings (I'm thinking Leon and Azura at the very least) and their retainers would join the player army, disillusioned or at least in disagreement with their country, and depending on whether you fulfill certain requirements or not you could either choose to kill or spare the other siblings who do not join you. Also, Garon would be a complex villain who's not doing it FOR THE EVULZ but is trying to secure resources for his own country -- by antagonizing an innocent country.

I would too, I would have loved for it to just have one route, where you navigate through this war between two nations that you're tied to by family in each, working towards a peaceful solution and taking out the bad guys in power. Though with its concept, I understand having at least two routes - personally I wish it had stayed that way. Anankos and Valla, while neat ideas, do the core story no favors whatsoever and ultimately bring down the narrative in a big way.

One more weak point in the narrative. The Avatar.

Kamui's story is probably the most intriguing of any FE protagonist to date. Him being torn between to families and nations is great for adding personal investment to the greater narrative. Sadly, this unique background is poorly utilized. In order to make him a better self-insert, he's made a blank canvas where a personality should be. He doesn't grow up embracing Nohrian values and he doesn't experience any culture shock by switching to Hoshido. Worse still is his lack of character growth. Even if the writers wanted to start him off as a naive everyman, he should still be allowed to develop as a character. But his siblings shelter him incessantly, preventing him from learning anything. Revelations makes a point of stomping on his growth by having the siblings tell him "No matter how often and badly you screw up, we'll always bail you out. Your naivete is a good thing!"

Which brings me to another point; Player Worship. A story like this should be morally ambiguous (why give the players a choice if one is so obviously the wrong one?), so neither choice should be the perfect answer to the protagonist's values. Unfortunately, Kamui is never allowed to be wrong, and bad things that happen are blamed on others or excused. It goes to such ridiculous lengths in Conquest that you are actually portrayed as a hero, despite being responsible for the invasion of an innocent nation and the death of two of your siblings.

In a similar vein to pleasing the player at the expense of the narrative is allowing you to marry your siblings. Family is a strong theme to work with but it's completely undermined by the forced pseudo-incest.

In short, making the protagonist a consequence-free self-insert was the worst possible thing they could do with the story.

Unfortunately, Player Worship doesn't look like it's ending any time soon. Which is absolutely devastating to the Fire Emblem legacy. I thought Robin was a better self-insert Avatar than Corrin, because Robin isn't the main focus of the story outside of a major plot twist at the end - Chrom and Lucina are the story's focal points in Awakening, and that worked in its favor. Fates puts the player at the forefront of the story, the character the story revolves around, but refuses to make Corrin live up to any previous lead protagonists in the series (Eliwood/Hector/Lyn, Ike, Ephraim/Eirika) by having the idea that "well, if it's a player created character then they have to be a blank slate and everyone has to love them." NO. Not everyone has to love the player to make a great story. I would have loved to see characters react differently to Corrin, and even if they can support with every character, not have all supports be potential romances (depending on Corrin's gender) as some of the characters may be able to come to understand, empathize with, and support Corrin, but heck if they're gonna fall in love and marry Corrin. Plus, Corrin has NO CHARACTER ARC. They start off sheltered, clueless, naive, and a supposed moral paragon, and they end that way. Which is most nonsensical in the Conquest route, but in all three routes, Corrin amounts to nothing. Absolutely nothing. And that's a shame.

It also hurts that we've had a player avatar for three games running now - looks like this might be Fire Emblem's new status quo. And with such a great cast of characters in Fates, it's aggravating that the main character can't live up to them.

Edited June 24, 2016 by TadpoleSuperHero

[paladin21]

Characters:

+I would have two Corrins for starters, male and female. The one you don't choose is the one that would join the other faction. Both would know they're twins, but even though their relationship with the Nohrian family would be close, it wouldn't be siblinglike. It would be stated from the start that though they're royalty, they aren't Sumeragi's own children.

+Garon wouldn't be Muk in disguise (controlled is OK, big mount of mud isn't).

+Gunter would be the Nohrian equivalent of Yukimura, downgraded to a regular guard/retainer by Garon after the kidnap beacuase of his ideals. He'd eventually be restored to that position by Corrin.

+Lilith would be playable with a role similar to Azura's (reasons to be explained in plot).

+Special recruitable characters (Flora, Yukimura, Izana) would be recruited normally through the story by meeting certain requirementes in some chapters. This type of recruitment would be reserved for a selection of characters from the other route that would join the character after certain events.

The development of the story would go in three parts:

+Introduction (around ten chapters long): you'd be using both Corrins along with Felicia and Jakob at the beginning. Afterwards you'd get some Hoshidan would-be-retainers. In these maps you'd have at least one face off with Hans, making him gain importance in future events and setting his relationship of rivalry with both Corrins. The Yato would split in two at the moment of its appearance, each of the Corrins receiving a replica of the weapon, but based on their talent (a mercenary would receive a Yato sword, while a samurai would receive a katana and an archer a yumi). Gameplaywise, the Yato's shape wouldn't make a difference (their base and promoted classes would allow them to use them).

+The Choice: The player chooses a side and his Yato and dragonstone transforms (Light Yato and Dragonstone for Hoshido and Dark Yato and Dragonstone for Nohr). The other Corrin would follow the alternate path.

+The War: This part of the story would be common for both routes, each seen from a different perspective (either Nohrian or Hoshidan), and getting unique characters (Azura and Silas for Hoshido and Lilith and Kaze for Nohr). Azura and Lilith would continuously try to stop the war since both of them have knowledge of the real enemy:

-Hoshido: They would start of defending from a Nohrian aggression led by Hans and some Nohrian Royals. At some point they would be pressed back into their country and turn the tides to get into Nohr.

-Nohr: Corrin's first missions would take him to suppress the revolts within Nohr, but they would actually just halt them temporarily. Then he'd be sent off to aid in the invasion when the Hoshidan army started retaking their territory.

+The plot twist: This is the point where the fate actually changes. Both Corrins face each other in battle, one of them dying and the other ending severely wounded. Then there would be several chapters where the royals of the chosen faction (the winners) would look for a cure for the surviving Corrin. These would be identical chapters to be done with a different set of characters.

After the plot twist:

-Hoshido: They'd keep fighting Nohr out of Hoshido, and eventually feel the need to invade it since Xander, Camilla and Leo wouldn't hold their attack to avenge N!Corrin. From this point on, the story would unfold as it does in the game, more or less, but with a chapter where the army storms a prison to rescue rebels, where Scarlett would be found (Hans as the boss of this chapter). This chapter you'd have to rush in order to save her, since Hans isn't too fond of her. N!Corrin's death would give Xander the motives for not holding back in combat (it's more plausible that he wants to avenge N!Corrin, who died by H!Corrin's hand, than support Garon's rule).

-Nohr: Ryoma would have died during or after the battle of the dragons. After H!Corrin and Ryoma's death, Takumi and Hinoka would set out in a revenge mission, while Sakura would stay grieving in the capital. After watching the attrocities of Hans and Iago while Corrin was out at Garon's orders, he/she sets out to lead the rebellion him/herself, releasing Scarlett and having to fight off the Hoshidan siblings, killing Takumi in a squirmish. Then the former invasion army, now rebel army, would face Garon and his lieutenants.

The revelations path would have both Corrins unite and not join either side. I haven't thought of the details, but this time around they'd have to work out a way to end the war with the help of Jakob, Felicia, Lilith and Sakura.

[CrimsonRaven]

To be honest, Player Worship is one of the biggest concerns I have going forward, since Avatars are pretty much a sure thing to come back in the next game and beyond.

Intelligent Systems has had the Avatar worshipped by all characters in all 3 games that it's appeared in, and it's gotten worse in each game. It's done nothing to improve the story as well as the IQ levels of the characters.

Same. I'm just hoping that the next game won't have MU as the main lord. I really didn't enjoy the dragon lord class in the first place, I always reclassed to my talent because other classes seemed more interesting to me. IS will probably still use player worship/pandering because at the end of the day it's all about sales, not much we can do about it

Just got the game a month ago and I was so hyped to play Conquest only to be let down by the story line, I was expecting the whole changing the country within gimmick but what I got was "whiny lord doesn't like his fathers orders but does it anyway so he tries to save people but they all die regardless". Really disappointing.

It was mentioned in BR that Nohr struggles economically while Hoshido lives in abundance. I dunno but maybe a better motivation for Nohr to invade? Maybe having that be Garons initial goal but then once they conquer Hoshido he reveals his real plan.

[blah the Prussian]

I strongly disagree that the Nohrian path should be a revolution against Garon. If I chose to side with Nohr, I want to fight for Nohr. If Conquest was about a revolution from the get go, it would be no different from Birthright, and where's the fun in that? I instead propose to have Nohr be fighting for legitimate reasons; kind of like Trabant in Thracia (I say in Thracia because his more sympathetic personality was almost entirely there).