The Absolute Worst Fire Emblem Characters.

[Just call me AL]

4 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

It doesn't help enough for me to be impressed - Sol only heals for half the damage dealt. That means I'd have to do 20 damage to get the same healing I'd get from a healing item that's going to be obsolete by the time you get Sol. Disappointing. And that's ignoring that even if Sol activates, you can still miss.

Well, how many enemies are you expecting the Sol user to face? 10? As long as the Sol user happens to survive by the end of the turn, why complain?

4 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

For how much of a pain it can be to get (have fun with ninjas that poison lunge chain the crap out of you on anything higher than normal), I'd say it ain't that good.

Defeating the enemies in Before Awakening should be doable regardless of the difficulty. After all, the game doesn't list its difficulty to be high. 

[Slumber]

6 minutes ago, Augestein said:

But she's not statistically the best choice by end game. That's the problem. Pent has con on her forever, and has more defense. We know that they won't hit 20/20 by the end, which is what makes the comparison for how Nino could be better kinda silly. 

You said he fell behind, which is why people are even saying anything about it. It wasn't that you were explaining "Nino isn't that bad, check her out next to Pent, he's better, but Nino isn't super far behind with a bit of babying." 

I said he fell behind compared to your A-team as they start promoting. Which, yeah, I probably could have worded better, since it really doesn't matter, since you'd be fine in FE7 with just the B-team. But she is statistically the best. She has HP, Magic, Skill, Luck and Res over Pent, which, barring HP, range everywhere from an extra 3-5 points. That 3 defense is nice, but it doesn't cancel out every other stat Nino beats Pent in.

Again, that con is mostly irrelevant when they both get con penalties on pretty much everything, and Pent barely scrapes(Literally if he had any more than 0.1 less than he averages out to, we wouldn't even have to argue this) by with 1 more AS.

I don't even know why I'm continuing with this. I don't even like Nino. I just think the idea that she's "the worst unit ever" is insane.

[Shadow Mir]

35 minutes ago, Slumber said:

That would be max level Pent. If we want to go further down this, Nino catches up to Pent(If we're saying Pent is level 20) at 20/11 in regards to speed, while being comparable in most every areas. And I don't know why you'd single out magic as the only area Nino wins in. It is an important stat, but she beats him in every other stat that isn't defense when they're both 20/20. And by a lot, in most cases. HP will end up being comparable, but that's about it. Nino trounces Pent in every stat that isn't defense. And yes, I'd say at minimum being 3 points better than Pent in every stat(Sans defense and HP) is "trouncing", if we continue hypothetically comparing 20/20 stats.

I don't know why this was the argument that got nitpicked. I never said that Pent was bad, or that Nino was the best unit ever. I said that Nino was statistically your best choice for an endgame Sage if you put the time into her, which isn't that hard to do. You even agree on that last point. I admit that I exaggerated that Pent wasn't endgame worthy and that Nino was(I let my friend borrow my FE7 cart when we were like, 13, and he had Marcus on the final chapter, so you could probably argue that anybody is endgame worthy), but that was more or less a slap-dash comment I made to address the idea that NINO IS THE WORST UNIT IN FIRE EMBLEM EVER.

Bold: Really now? That's what I'd call disappointing for all the TLC Nino needs before she can even be remotely comparable to Pent. It ain't like her meager stat advantages will help her kill something Pent can't.

Hey, I don't agree with the idea that Nino's the worst unit in FE either, but IMO, she doesn't live up to the hype.

[Slumber]

Just now, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Bold: Really now? That's what I'd call disappointing for all the TLC Nino needs before she can even be remotely comparable to Pent. It ain't like her meager stat advantages will help her kill something Pent can't.

Hey, I don't agree with the idea that Nino's the worst unit in FE either, but IMO, she doesn't live up to the hype.

i agree but i've gone too far now

[Shadow Mir]

44 minutes ago, Just call me AL said:

Well, how many enemies are you expecting the Sol user to face? 10? As long as the Sol user happens to survive by the end of the turn, why complain?

Defeating the enemies in Before Awakening should be doable regardless of the difficulty. After all, the game doesn't list its difficulty to be high. 

Because Sol's unreliable, duh. Needing to hope it activates, hope to not miss and hope that whatever I'm facing is something I do a lot of damage to aren't exactly the types of conditions I want to have to meet.

Winning the map is one thing, but winning while hoping Chrom or Lissa don't get defeated is another matter entirely, especially with Poison Strike ninjas that can lunge chain you to a position where you're in range to get finished off by something else.

[Just call me AL]

33 minutes ago, Slumber said:

I said he fell behind compared to your A-team as they start promoting.

I don't know what version of FE7 you're playing if you seriously think that Pent "falls behind" when your team starts promoting. Because that's a literal impossibility. If anything, he's on par with your team during then, and he doesn't slow down at all.

35 minutes ago, Slumber said:

But she is statistically the best. She has HP, Magic, Skill, Luck and Res over Pent, which, barring HP, range everywhere from an extra 3-5 points.

2.8 Mag, 4.9 Skl, 3.4 Spd, 5.7 lol Lck, and 4.1 Res are hardly significant in any way. And his A with Louise, for all intents and purposes, makes that 1.8 Mag, and 1.1 Res, and eliminates that Skl and Lck "advantage".

36 minutes ago, Slumber said:

That 3 defense is nice, but it doesn't cancel out every other stat Nino beats Pent in.

Good thing he has other stats with give him advantages over Nino forever. Such as an A in Staves and an auto-A with Louise.

5 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Because Sol's unreliable, duh. Needing to hope it activates, hope to not miss and hope that whatever I'm facing is something I do a lot of damage to aren't exactly the types of conditions I want to have to meet.

By the time you even get Sol, your units should have a double-digit Sol activation rate, and should be able to do meaningful damage to enemies. Complaining about the skill despite those two facts is pointless.

5 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Winning the map is one thing, but winning while hoping Chrom or Lissa don't get defeated is another matter entirely, especially with Poison Strike ninjas that can lunge chain you to a position where you're in range to get finished off by something else.

Which is part of why you want to finish the map at a point in the game that's as early as possible. That map's enemies will be easier to handle during then.

[Harvey]

Umm...about that Nino being the worst thing...

I meant that if you're talking about characters who are pointless to train unless you want additional challenge, she is one of them in that sense because she is such a chore to train her with very little time. She may not be the worst FE character, but she's definitely not the most favored either.

I think people need to understand that just because she has good growths or because she is capable of soloing the endgame doesn't mean that she's the best. It all comes down to the time that she's in and the amount of training she HAS to go through inorder for her to reach that level. Some find it a challenge to do and might consider doing it, but others including me will not find it fun because....well, you have Pent who even if Nino is better than him, he still can end up with S-Staves..something that Nino cannot end up with and when you have units like Jaffar, what reward besides supports do you get out of Nino?.

But really, neither of them can compare to Athos in the end.

And since FE7 isn't like any other FE game where you're forced to choose the ones who you can trust, you can choose anyone you like and just go fine with that which is what I really wish that future FE games do something like this without forcing players to grind just to use their favorite characters.

 

[Shadow Mir]

1 hour ago, Just call me AL said:

By the time you even get Sol, your units should have a double-digit Sol activation rate, and should be able to do meaningful damage to enemies. Complaining about the skill despite those two facts is pointless.

I still fail to see it as reliable because you can only expect about a 1-in-3 activation rate at max, and needless to say, you;'re going to have less than that for most of the game. And there's the part where unless you get lucky and have it activate against a squishy unit, preferably on the first hit, you're probably getting a single-digit amount of health back.

Quote

Which is part of why you want to finish the map at a point in the game that's as early as possible. That map's enemies will be easier to handle during then.

I doubt trying it earlier would make it much less unpleasant...

 

Edited February 20, 2017 by Levant Mir Celestia

[SpearOfLies]

5 hours ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

I still fail to see it as reliable because you can only expect about a 1-in-3 activation rate at max, and needless to say, you;'re going to have less than that for most of the game. And there's the part where unless you get lucky and have it activate against a squishy unit, preferably on the first hit, you're probably getting a single-digit amount of health back.

I doubt trying it earlier would make it much less unpleasant...

 

I'm curious about what you considering a good skill.

[Just call me AL]

7 hours ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

I still fail to see it as reliable because you can only expect about a 1-in-3 activation rate at max, and needless to say, you;'re going to have less than that for most of the game. And there's the part where unless you get lucky and have it activate against a squishy unit, preferably on the first hit, you're probably getting a single-digit amount of health back.

You say that like you're expecting the Sol user's a frail unit. Unless if it's someone like Nyx, why would the Sol user be a frail unit? In what world is a unit like Camilla, Leo, Xander, Silas, or Sophie "frail"? What are you expecting the Sol user to be doing? All you have it for is to help its user survive hits on enemy phase. It shouldn't matter if the amount of damage healed is single-digit. Camilla, Leo, Xander, Silas, and Sophie, after all, shouldn't have trouble dealing meaningful damage.

7 hours ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

I doubt trying it earlier would make it much less unpleasant...

You'd be surprised. It's literally at its easiest as soon as your first unpromoted healer joins.

[Shadow Mir]

3 hours ago, Just call me AL said:

You say that like you're expecting the Sol user's a frail unit. Unless if it's someone like Nyx, why would the Sol user be a frail unit? In what world is a unit like Camilla, Leo, Xander, Silas, or Sophie "frail"? What are you expecting the Sol user to be doing? All you have it for is to help its user survive hits on enemy phase. It shouldn't matter if the amount of damage healed is single-digit. Camilla, Leo, Xander, Silas, and Sophie, after all, shouldn't have trouble dealing meaningful damage.

You'd be surprised. It's literally at its easiest as soon as your first unpromoted healer joins.

You do realize we're not talking about a game where enemies had radically inflated HP stats on higher difficulties (Awakening), don't you...? Meaning even if you do deal meaningful damage, if your target isn't perfectly healthy, Sol isn't doing jack, in all likelihood. And I wouldn't consider single digit healing enough sustenance to be relied on to keep you alive unless you were shrugging off everything coming your way, which tends to NOT be the case for most units (out of those units you specifically named, that leaves only Xander - none of those other units are all that tanky, especially Camilla, who's prone to eat random crits because her luck is pretty bad).

Maybe on Revelations, because Corrin gets grossly overleveled, but s/he's only one unit, and your others are significantly less durable. I doubt I'd want to try that on Birthright, where most of your units break as easily as glass, or on Conquest, where my one unit who has WTA over ninjas is the biggest liability in the damn game, AKA Arthur.

Edited February 20, 2017 by Levant Mir Celestia

[SpearOfLies]

44 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

You do realize we're not talking about a game where enemies had radically inflated HP stats on higher difficulties (Awakening), don't you...? Meaning even if you do deal meaningful damage, if your target isn't perfectly healthy, Sol isn't doing jack, in all likelihood. And I wouldn't consider single digit healing enough sustenance to be relied on to keep you alive unless you were shrugging off everything coming your way, which tends to NOT be the case for most units (out of those units you specifically named, that leaves only Xander - none of those other units are all that tanky, especially Camilla, who's prone to eat random crits because her luck is pretty bad).

Maybe on Revelations, because Corrin gets grossly overleveled, but s/he's only one unit, and your others are significantly less durable. I doubt I'd want to try that on Birthright, where most of your units break as easily as glass, or on Conquest, where my one unit who has WTA over ninjas is the biggest liability in the damn game, AKA Arthur.

I feel like we play diffent game, unless you picked all the character have bad def growth. I mean I didn't have any insue about Birthright until last two-three chapters where enemies start to seriously gangbang you and don't have enough units to block they movement because of awful map design. And I played it in lunatic. So break as easily as glass is questionable statement about Birthright.

 

Aside you didn't answer my question yet.

 

Personally I like Sol. I spam it my awakening playthought. But my conquest playthought only my berseker Soleil(lol) have it. And I change it with Rally strength when I find it more useful. Did I use her as tank unit? Nope, if you use sol for tank unit, you totally waste it. When my Soleil attack 90% the enemy will be OHKO. When be attacked she will be killed after two or three attack without Sol trigger. Why I find it useful? Not always you have enough healers for everyone or enough damage, so when Sol trigger it help you make more offensive move or better defensive move without any drastic measure. So strategical speaking is more useful than luna, dragon fang and lethality as far they are more powerful skill. Astra is more useful as defensive skill and duo breaker. Vengeance and Rend heaven are offensive more reliable.

 

So I ask again. What skills you think are good skill? There are only few skill I can considered bad but they are only few advance class skills that I considered better than vantage and seeing how easily you saying shit about it, I'm very curious.

[Shadow Mir]

4 hours ago, SpearOfLies said:

I feel like we play diffent game, unless you picked all the character have bad def growth. I mean I didn't have any insue about Birthright until last two-three chapters where enemies start to seriously gangbang you and don't have enough units to block they movement because of awful map design. And I played it in lunatic. So break as easily as glass is questionable statement about Birthright.

 

Aside you didn't answer my question yet.

 

Personally I like Sol. I spam it my awakening playthought. But my conquest playthought only my berseker Soleil(lol) have it. And I change it with Rally strength when I find it more useful. Did I use her as tank unit? Nope, if you use sol for tank unit, you totally waste it. When my Soleil attack 90% the enemy will be OHKO. When be attacked she will be killed after two or three attack without Sol trigger. Why I find it useful? Not always you have enough healers for everyone or enough damage, so when Sol trigger it help you make more offensive move or better defensive move without any drastic measure. So strategical speaking is more useful than luna, dragon fang and lethality as far they are more powerful skill. Astra is more useful as defensive skill and duo breaker. Vengeance and Rend heaven are offensive more reliable.

 

So I ask again. What skills you think are good skill? There are only few skill I can considered bad but they are only few advance class skills that I considered better than vantage and seeing how easily you saying shit about it, I'm very curious.

I don't know what game you've been playing, because I find that this trope tends to apply to many a Hoshidan character, and some of them are also this trope. I could count the number of Hoshidan characters who can reliably stand up to more than one or two hits on one hand.

I ignored it because at the time I didn't really give it much thought compared to what I did respond to. Anyways, skills I'd consider good are Renewal, Luna, Dragon Fang (though that one tends to have limited distribution), HP +5, Miracle, Pavise, Aegis (admittedly, both of those are level 15 skills), and Astra to an extent. Also, I disagree on Vengeance and Rend Heaven, because the former requires the unit to be at low HP to be effective (and considering that Fates has been dubbed Low HP Emblem, that's a problem for what should be obvious reasons), and the latter tends to be, shall I say, hit-or-miss. Going back to Sol, whilst I might not have enough healers to cover everyone, Sol is no substitute for a healer or even a concoction because it's chance-based.

Edited February 20, 2017 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Just call me AL]

7 hours ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

You do realize we're not talking about a game where enemies had radically inflated HP stats on higher difficulties (Awakening), don't you...? Meaning even if you do deal meaningful damage, if your target isn't perfectly healthy, Sol isn't doing jack, in all likelihood. And I wouldn't consider single digit healing enough sustenance to be relied on to keep you alive unless you were shrugging off everything coming your way, which tends to NOT be the case for most units

If the target isn't perfectly healthy, then chances are that Sol's either done its work or isn't needed during then. Simple as that. Like with Augustein's Amaterasu argument, all the Sol user needs to do is survive the turn. I'll grant you that little enemies in Fates don't have inflated HP, but at the same time, Fates's enemies don't have inflated anything. One could argue Sol being easier to use in Fates than it is in Awakening because of that. (Not to mention, neither Vaike, Gregor, Gaius, Basilio, Flavia, or especially Donnel, are anything too special. And they're the only G1 units in Awakening who can use Sol, apart from Robin and Cordelia.)

7 hours ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

(out of those units you specifically named, that leaves only Xander - none of those other units are all that tanky, especially Camilla, who's prone to eat random crits because her luck is pretty bad).

Each of them are tanky enough to survive a single turn on enemy phase. And don't forget that Camilla's EXP gain kinda means that she's one of the first units to get Sol, and would do so after getting +5 HP and Gamble.

7 hours ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Maybe on Revelations, because Corrin gets grossly overleveled, but s/he's only one unit, and your others are significantly less durable. I doubt I'd want to try that on Birthright, where most of your units break as easily as glass, or on Conquest, where my one unit who has WTA over ninjas is the biggest liability in the damn game, AKA Arthur.

Why do you think I mentioned to at least wait until you get your first unpromoted healer? Just for the heck of it? Alternatively, one could wait until a chapter or two after you've managed to get said healer. Seeing as you'll at least have some more decent units during then. Saizo on Birthright, Niles on Conquest, in addition to Silas on both, and Takumi on Revelations. There might be others I'm missing, but you should get the general gist of what I'm trying to say.

Also, no one's saying that Sol is a replacement for a healer. Only that it would prolong the need for one. Why would you even think we're saying that Sol replaces healers is beyond me.

Edited February 21, 2017 by Just call me AL

[SpearOfLies]

30 minutes ago, Just call me AL said:

If the target isn't perfectly healthy, then chances are that Sol's either done its work or isn't needed during then. Simple as that. Like with Augustein's Amaterasu argument, all the Sol user needs to do is survive the turn. I'll grant you that little enemies in Fates don't have inflated HP, but at the same time, Fates's enemies don't have inflated anything. One could argue Sol being easier to use in Fates than it is in Awakening because of that. (Not to mention, neither Vaike, Gregor, Gaius, Basilio, Flavia, or especially Donnel, are anything too special. And they're the only G1 units in Awakening who can use Sol, apart from Robin and Cordelia.)

Each of them are tanky enough to survive a single turn on enemy phase. And don't forget that Camilla's EXP gain kinda means that she's one of the first units to get Sol, and would do so after getting +5 HP and Gamble.

Why do you think I mentioned to at least wait until you get your first unpromoted healer? Just for the heck of it? Alternatively, one could wait until a chapter or two after you've managed to get said healer. Seeing as you'll at least have some more decent units during then. Saizo on Birthright, Niles on Conquest, in addition to Silas on both, and Takumi on Revelations. There might be others I'm missing, but you should get the general gist of what I'm trying to say.

Also, no one's saying that Sol is a replacement for a healer. Only that it would prolong the need for one. Why would you even think we're saying that Sol replaces healers is beyond me.

Seeing the skills he pick as good skill and the arguments he said about vantage and sol are not good skill, I cannot take him seriously.

[Shadow Mir]

16 minutes ago, SpearOfLies said:

Seeing the skills he pick as good skill and the arguments he said about vantage and sol are not good skill, I cannot take him seriously.

Heh. That makes two of us. You can't possibly tell me Sol even comes close to competing with Renewal, which heals you with no strings attached. And as for Vantage, I do NOT like playing Russian Roulette.

Edited February 21, 2017 by Levant Mir Celestia

[SpearOfLies]

8 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Heh. That makes two of us. You can't possibly tell me Sol even comes close to competing with Renewal, which heals you with no strings attached.

The problem is not skill you picked are bad but the arguments you said why vantage and sol are bad.

And I personally prefer Lifetaker than Renewal. I have more guys in awakening with Lifetaker than Renewal. I have no reason to take Renewal in Birthright.(still haven't finish Revelation lunatic).

[Shadow Mir]

3 hours ago, Just call me AL said:

If the target isn't perfectly healthy, then chances are that Sol's either done its work or isn't needed during then. Simple as that. Like with Augustein's Amaterasu argument, all the Sol user needs to do is survive the turn. I'll grant you that little enemies in Fates don't have inflated HP, but at the same time, Fates's enemies don't have inflated anything. One could argue Sol being easier to use in Fates than it is in Awakening because of that. (Not to mention, neither Vaike, Gregor, Gaius, Basilio, Flavia, or especially Donnel, are anything too special. And they're the only G1 units in Awakening who can use Sol, apart from Robin and Cordelia.)

Each of them are tanky enough to survive a single turn on enemy phase. And don't forget that Camilla's EXP gain kinda means that she's one of the first units to get Sol, and would do so after getting +5 HP and Gamble.

Why do you think I mentioned to at least wait until you get your first unpromoted healer? Just for the heck of it? Alternatively, one could wait until a chapter or two after you've managed to get said healer. Seeing as you'll at least have some more decent units during then. Saizo on Birthright, Niles on Conquest, in addition to Silas on both, and Takumi on Revelations. There might be others I'm missing, but you should get the general gist of what I'm trying to say.

Also, no one's saying that Sol is a replacement for a healer. Only that it would prolong the need for one. Why would you even think we're saying that Sol replaces healers is beyond me.

Likewise, I'd argue that most of the units that get Sol in Fates (without seal shenanigans, at least - remember that you only get so many seals to go around for most of the game) are hardly fantastic. And the lower stats all around is a point against Sol, from where I'm standing.

Maybe, but most of those units you mentioned are pretty slow, and Camilla, once again, tends to eat random crits that may severely wound her, if not kill her outright (and ditto for Sophie, depending on her mother).

I was assuming that (the little sisters join in chapter 7 on their respective routes). 

Maybe, but with this being Fates we're talking about, I'd find it hard to rely on chance-based healing.

2 hours ago, SpearOfLies said:

The problem is not skill you picked are bad but the arguments you said why vantage and sol are bad.

And I personally prefer Lifetaker than Renewal. I have more guys in awakening with Lifetaker than Renewal. I have no reason to take Renewal in Birthright.(still haven't finish Revelation lunatic).

I forgot the part where Renewal was a level 5 skill in Fates, as opposed to it being level 15 in Awakening. Anyways, I don't think Vantage is all that great in Fates since most of the stuff you could use in conjunction with it got nerfed (Vengeance got its activation rate decreased, 1-2 range melee weapons were nerfed, Fates having lower stats all around, particularly the varied HP caps [this also hurts Vengeance], pair up and braves getting nerfed).

Edited February 21, 2017 by Levant Mir Celestia

[SpearOfLies]

59 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Likewise, I'd argue that most of the units that get Sol in Fates (without seal shenanigans, at least - remember that you only get so many seals to go around for most of the game) are hardly fantastic. And the lower stats all around is a point against Sol, from where I'm standing.

Maybe, but most of those units you mentioned are pretty slow, and Camilla, once again, tends to eat random crits that may severely wound her, if not kill her outright (and ditto for Sophie, depending on her mother).

I was assuming that (the little sisters join in chapter 7 on their respective routes). 

Maybe, but with this being Fates we're talking about, I'd find it hard to rely on chance-based healing.

I forgot the part where Renewal was a level 5 skill in Fates, as opposed to it being level 15 in Awakening. Anyways, I don't think Vantage is all that great in Fates since most of the stuff you could use in conjunction with it got nerfed (Vengeance got its activation rate decreased, 1-2 range melee weapons were nerfed, Fates having lower stats all around, particularly the varied HP caps [this also hurts Vengeance], pair up and braves getting nerfed).

Crit is buffed and my owain was critic sage vantage. Sadilly odin is not so good.

Also I didn't use any samurai. In my birthright playthough I refuse to use Ryouma and Takumi(he is not a samurai but blame him). But I will try something for lunatic plus... maybe.

[Shadow Mir]

3 hours ago, SpearOfLies said:

Crit is buffed and my owain was critic sage vantage. Sadilly odin is not so good.

Also I didn't use any samurai. In my birthright playthough I refuse to use Ryouma and Takumi(he is not a samurai but blame him). But I will try something for lunatic plus... maybe.

You might have to explain what you mean by crit getting buffed.

[SpearOfLies]

5 hours ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

You might have to explain what you mean by crit getting buffed.

Did you miss all the crit weapon?

[Shadow Mir]

10 minutes ago, SpearOfLies said:

Did you miss all the crit weapon?

You mean the same weapons that are unreliable, with pretty much all of them either dropping your evade or having some major downside, to say nothing of most of them having a blind spot?

Edited February 21, 2017 by Levant Mir Celestia

[SpearOfLies]

11 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

You mean the same weapons that are unreliable, with pretty much all of them either dropping your evade or having some major downside?

Yup.

[Shadow Mir]

7 minutes ago, SpearOfLies said:

Yup.

Well, like I said, most of those weapons drop your evade, and some others (Not-So-Great Club, Beruka's Axe, Odin's Grimoire) have other major downsides. Then again, with most high crit weapons having lackluster might and a blind spot as well...

Edited February 21, 2017 by Levant Mir Celestia

[SpearOfLies]

10 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Well, like I said, most of those weapons drop your evade, and some others (Not-So-Great Club, Beruka's Axe, Odin's Grimoire) have other major downsides. Then again, with most high crit weapons having lackluster might and a blind spot as well...

As I said before, I cannot take you serious because of your arguments. We all well know that fates have bad hp growth rate. There are quite amount can be oneshotted and as you said there are many glass cannon(thought I hadn't any issue about amount of my tanks). So if regardless my unit will be oneshotted, why should I care about -20 evad? I get something that can easier be actived(your issue about chance based sol) than luna, dragon fang, astra and lethality and can do far more damage(lethality aside cause is OHKO skill).