Would you play a spiritual successor to the Tellius series?

[Dinar87]

As the title says, would you buy a game that had the storytelling and world building of the tellius series and the crazy, over the top animations of the GBA FE games? Of course, this hypothetical game would play like a more complex fire emblem game (a few more stats to manage) with brand new classes. It would also feature the 3 tiered class system of radiant dawn as well.

Since I don't know how to do polls yet I'll have to rely on (potential) posts telling me their answer.

Also, if you were going to buy a fire emblem-like game (if at all), what would you want it to have in the game?

​EDIT: This whole thing is about helping make another Tellius game. Sorry if I unintentionally tricked anyone!

Edited July 9, 2016 by Dinar87

[Enaluxeme]

I would like a fire-emblem-like to not be completely equal to original titles. For example the first TearRing is too similar, even if it has it's reasons to.

While the premise of the turn based strategic game with loads of characters is okay, I'd like to see a fire-emblem-like that's not afraid to remove or change some mechanics instead of just adding.

For example, having a game where character progression is more than just level-up -> random stat gain -> higher stats: what if stats are gained based on how the unit performs? If the character did lots of scratch damage, they have a bonus to their strenght grow, if they weren't able to double someone they have more speed, if they survived a crit they have more luck ecc...

What if instead of having classes, each character can learn how to use any kind of weapon or mount or choose to wear different kinds of armor? In this sense, the ability to use swords would be as valuable as Luna. In fact, using a certain type of weapon may very well be an actual skill. Instead of simply promoting to another class, characters gain some new skills once they reach certain levels.

[Dinar87]

I would like a fire-emblem-like to not be completely equal to original titles. For example the first TearRing is too similar, even if it has it's reasons to.

While the premise of the turn based strategic game with loads of characters is okay, I'd like to see a fire-emblem-like that's not afraid to remove or change some mechanics instead of just adding.

For example, having a game where character progression is more than just level-up -> random stat gain -> higher stats: what if stats are gained based on how the unit performs? If the character did lots of scratch damage, they have a bonus to their strenght grow, if they weren't able to double someone they have more speed, if they survived a crit they have more luck ecc...

What if instead of having classes, each character can learn how to use any kind of weapon or mount or choose to wear different kinds of armor? In this sense, the ability to use swords would be as valuable as Luna. In fact, using a certain type of weapon may very well be an actual skill. Instead of simply promoting to another class, characters gain some new skills once they reach certain levels.

Ah, so you'd like something a bit more experimental than a standard fire emblem clone...well here's my ideas for a fe game...

1. New stats- Charisma and Endurance- the first affects how much a character is effected by buffs and the other determines how much the character is effected by debuffs. These two new stats serve the purpose to make all the different classes feel more unique.

2. More options- things like how many stats you gain per level, whether you want the weapon triangle to be active or not, etc... Of course, a 'smart leveling' feature could be added where, if a character severly lacks a certain stat they'll automatically start gaining said stat each level until they're no longer so lacking.

3. The mastery skill system from the tellius series would be present along with plenty of brand new skills to play around with.

4. The personal skill system from fates would return to further make each character feel unique.

5. Of course there'd be a classic and casual mode. You'd also be able to turn things like weapon degradation or grinding on or off.

Also, do you mind me using your ideas of a 'smart leveling' feature and a class that say, every 10 levels, gains a new weapon type rather than promotes?

Edited July 6, 2016 by Dinar87

[Light Strategist]

Based on your back and forth amongst yourselves there, that seems pretty solid to me. I'd still have the 3 weapon type limit for balancing purposes but maybe you could have it so that a Great Knight for example could choose to replace their Axe capability with Bows. I'd incorporate hidden weapons into it too, since they're very useful as a whole.

[Dinar87]

How about an assassin mage who has extremely high skill and speed but otherwise has mediocre stats?

[Light Strategist]

It'd still wanna be above average magic but otherwise I don't see why not.

I remember you mentioning it the other day and I do want to see magical variants of most regular classes, so this is an interesting concept to me.

[Dinar87]

What FE game do you personally think has the best story and what could be done to replicate its qualities?

[Light Strategist]

I honestly feel I'm too inexperienced to give a suitable answer to that. I've only finished Awakening and Blazing Sword (I REALLY should play the endgame chapter of PoR since it's all I have left). To that end, Awakening brought me to the franchise and I know I hold bias towards it, though the other two entries are no slouches either.

I will say that having Holy Weapons and Avatar creation would certainly interest me a bunch, but I'm the kind of person that wants to be able to pick a Legendary Weapon for my Avatar to wield after a certain point in the story. In Awakening, I basically used Book of Naga and Mercurius as my personal choices of weapons, so... maybe making certain weapons story significant could do wonders... but... I really wouldn't know.

[Quintessence]

I'll play it.

I would like a fire-emblem-like to not be completely equal to original titles. For example the first TearRing is too similar, even if it has it's reasons to.

While the premise of the turn based strategic game with loads of characters is okay, I'd like to see a fire-emblem-like that's not afraid to remove or change some mechanics instead of just adding.

For example, having a game where character progression is more than just level-up -> random stat gain -> higher stats: what if stats are gained based on how the unit performs? If the character did lots of scratch damage, they have a bonus to their strenght grow, if they weren't able to double someone they have more speed, if they survived a crit they have more luck ecc...

What if instead of having classes, each character can learn how to use any kind of weapon or mount or choose to wear different kinds of armor? In this sense, the ability to use swords would be as valuable as Luna. In fact, using a certain type of weapon may very well be an actual skill. Instead of simply promoting to another class, characters gain some new skills once they reach certain levels.

Fixed Mode does this to some extent. Not the class thing though.

[Enaluxeme]

I think you may want a plot closer to FE7 or Tellius than the others, simply because the others mostly amount to: the protagonist is a lord of GoodKingdom, then BadEmpire attacked, the lord fought to reclaim his homeland, but then realized that BadEmpire's emperor was only a servant of EvilDragon, so he used the sacred DivineSword to slain it.

Also, do you mind me using your ideas of a 'smart leveling' feature and a class that say, every 10 levels, gains a new weapon type rather than promotes?

That's mostly what I had in mind myself, but I would make it so that the player has a choice:

You start with a plain swordsman. On level XX you get to choose between gaining a horse or the use of axes.

On this note, the Avatar would have more choices aviable, making it the most customizable unit.

On the topic of weapons, I would have no weapon triangle, instead having all kinds of weapons with different balance of damage, accuracy and weight, meaning that you have to choose the best weapon type to use based on the stats of your unit and the enemy rather than just picking the type that gives you an advantage over your opponent's. The weapon types would be swords, lances, axes (and maces), hidden weapons (and knives) and bows, but also greatswords and poleaxes as separated types.

Swords: high accuracy, low damage, low weight;

Greatswords: medium accuracy, good damage, high weight;

Lances: high accuracy, medium damage, medium weight;

Axes: very low accuracy, very high damage, high weight;

Poleaxes: medium accuracy, very high damage, very high weight;

Hidden Weapons: low accuracy, very low damage, very low weight;

Bows: high accuracy, low damage, low weight.

As for the magic, it should have more special tomes with things like debuffs, AOE, physical damage and whatnot. This is actually a complaint I have about the main series, as tomes are just res-targeting javelins.

[Dinar87]

How about staves that directly influence stats like defense and crit? I know dancers provided that in previous games but they weren't very common and were limited in what stats they could boost.

As for a story, while I currently have nothing in mind (mainly because I'm no professional writer) I'd like it to feel like another Tellius game-that means stuff like...

1. Starting form the bottom of society and working your way up (lowly mercenary->lord, a gang of rebels->royal army, etc...).
2. Having moments that make you hate the villains. I feel part 1 of radiant dawn where Jarrod kills his fellow soldiers or when the soldiers open fire on civilians are very good examples of this.
3. Having the 'good guys' feel human whilst having (some) villains feel inhuman because of how despicable they are.
4. Heavy themes like corruption and genocide were handled (imo) well in the Tellius series. I'd like to replicate this if possible.


Also, your ideas about different weapons having different strengths and weaknesses could be combined with the weapon triangle to make each class feel even more unique. Additionally, you'd be able to turn on or off the weapon triangle and the differences between weapons (so Iron swords, iron axes and iron lances would all share the same hit rate, crit, avo, etc...) so players can craft their own, perfect FE experience.

As usual, thanks for the suggestions guys!

Edited July 6, 2016 by Dinar87

[Enaluxeme]

I don't think that this "turn on-off any feature" is a good thing, and even if, it would be hell to balance a game according to this.

[Dinar87]

While it would break the game to include all these options, couldn't it just be thought of as optional ways to make the game more easy/hard? Still, if multiple people think including options to alter the game's mechanics is a bad thing I won't do it. You'd be stuck with weapon triangles and weapon buffs/debuffs 4life....unless you guys don't want those features either.

Edited July 6, 2016 by Dinar87

[solrocknroll]

Why are you implying that Tellius is more complex or that it even needs a spiritual successor? It's fine to like Tellius, but Tellius was already a spiritual successor to Jugdral with many of it's elements. Tellius had a lot of poorly done elements like ledges and biorhythm.

I'd totally take a spiritual successor to FE4 though. It'd be pretty interesting to see a lot of those elements. Or FE5.

[Dinar87]

Well I mainly said I wanted the stories to be like the Tellius series because those are the ones I've played. I'm sure my views will change once I play 4 and 5 which I'm excited to do. I heard good things about the stories of both games and I agree it sounds like the tellius series is really a spiritual successor to those games.

Also, while I do love the tellius games I don't think they're perfect...
1. Biorhythm was more of an annoyance than something you had to consider and plan for,
2. Part 1 and 2 of radiant dawn are WAY too short (especially part 2)
3. Sothe not promoting to assassin in fe9 was BS
4. I've never used the laguz as they seem like glorified jagens
5. No dark mages
6. Stiff and awkward battle animations

So yeah, those games do have their flaws but I still love them dearly....do you think I'll like 4 and 5 then?

Btw, sorry if I offended you by implying that the stories of Tellius are superior as all of this is just my personal tastes.

Edited July 6, 2016 by Dinar87

[blah the Prussian]

What FE game do you personally think has the best story and what could be done to replicate its qualities?

Right then. By far the best part of POR was Ashnard. I like him because he wasn't in it to revive some dragon, he wasn't being manipulated by some shady sorcerer, he was in it entirely for himself. I also think Begnion is the best portrayed FE nation ever, with its nuance and its intrigue. I want more Begnion and less Gallia, basically.

[Dinar87]

Ah, so you like begnion because there's a mix of both humans (like Sanaki and Sephiran) and monsters (the Senators)?

[solrocknroll]

@Dinar: you'd probably really enjoy Thracia especially. Genealogy plays pretty differently but Thracia tends to be considered the epitome of classic Fire Emblem gameplay. Probably the best gameplay next to Fates based on the different ways to tackle growths and obstacles.

Right then. By far the best part of POR was Ashnard. I like him because he wasn't in it to revive some dragon, he wasn't being manipulated by some shady sorcerer, he was in it entirely for himself. I also think Begnion is the best portrayed FE nation ever, with its nuance and its intrigue. I want more Begnion and less Gallia, basically.

Have you played Radiant Dawn?

Maybe not a shady sorcerer, but definitely a similar concept.

[Dinar87]

I'll look forward to Thracia then! I hope it lives up to my expectations...

If it really is like the Tellius series then I guess you could say I want to develop a spiritual successor to those games as well.

Of course all this "I'm going to make a game!" stuff is for the very distant future but I thought it'd be fun to think of some features now rather than later. But of course lies the question "why make a spiritual successor to begin with when the main series is alive and well?". It's mainly because I fell in love with the stories and characters of the Tellius series and I wish the newer games could replicate it. Since Nintendo (especially with paper mario) seem to be very anti-story that makes me very worried for fire emblem's future. Anyways, long story short, if modern FE games ever disappoint me enough I'll probably try and make my own version just so I'll have something more to play. But of course, that's IF that ever happens.

Edited July 6, 2016 by Dinar87

[Enaluxeme]

Basically just keep an open mind and don't be afraid of experimenting. Just don't throw dozens of new features and mechanics in a single game.

[Dinar87]

I appreciate the advice friend! The only things that it would have to differentiate itself from modern FE titles are...
1. The new stats
2. 3 tiered classes
3. Brand new classes

Of course, again, this is way off into the future and I don't even know if I want to pursue game development as a career. But if I do I'll at least know exactly what I want to make. In other words...don't get your hopes up (if you even had any to begin with that is).

Edited July 6, 2016 by Dinar87

[Light Strategist]

Why not have any of the options you want people to be able to play around with as unlockables? Complete the game once then you unlock the features you've had in mind. If you unlock a second story as well, it gives more reason to others to want to continue and maybe test those unlocked features. It's something to think about.

[Dinar87]

You mean like a Hector Hard Mode 2.0?

That sounds like a pretty good idea. I'm only worried that people would complain about not having access to these options instantly...​
What about a newgame+ mode where you start with all your characters at their respective levels and take on the same maps again but with much tougher enemies? That would also give you the opportunity to fiddle around with the mechanics of the game then (like modify the crit rate for everyone individually and stuff like that).

​One more thing....what type of music are things like 'A Grasping Truth' from Radiant Dawn because I really, really like them!

Edited July 7, 2016 by Dinar87

[blah the Prussian]

Have you played Radiant Dawn?

Maybe not a shady sorcerer, but definitely a similar concept.

Why yes, as a matter of fact, I have. Ashnard isn't really being manipulated by Sephiran, though, since his goal is to awaken the Dark Goddess anyway. He's more unwittingly allied with Sephiran, but since he likes chaos anyway if he found out what Sephiran wanted he'd probably be fine with it.

Ah, so you like begnion because there's a mix of both humans (like Sanaki and Sephiran) and monsters (the Senators)?

Well I'd actually call Sephiran one of the most despicable villains in the series, but yeah. It has real issues, and the whole recovering from slavery with an aristocratic class that supported it spoke to me as an American. Begnion is basically a mix between the Roman Empire (which I am currently obsessed with) and America at the dawn of the Civil Rights Movement; slavery was banned a while ago, but the minority group still faces a ton of problems. Change is beginning, though, and the future is bright. Begnion also plays the Soviet Union in POR's WWII, doing most of the work defeating Daein, but having the credit taken by a guy named Ike. That basically means Begnion is simultaneously the USA and USSR.

[Dinar87]

Why yes, as a matter of fact, I have. Ashnard isn't really being manipulated by Sephiran, though, since his goal is to awaken the Dark Goddess anyway. He's more unwittingly allied with Sephiran, but since he likes chaos anyway if he found out what Sephiran wanted he'd probably be fine with it.

Well I'd actually call Sephiran one of the most despicable villains in the series, but yeah. It has real issues, and the whole recovering from slavery with an aristocratic class that supported it spoke to me as an American. Begnion is basically a mix between the Roman Empire (which I am currently obsessed with) and America at the dawn of the Civil Rights Movement; slavery was banned a while ago, but the minority group still faces a ton of problems. Change is beginning, though, and the future is bright. Begnion also plays the Soviet Union in POR's WWII, doing most of the work defeating Daein, but having the credit taken by a guy named Ike. That basically means Begnion is simultaneously the USA and USSR.

In other words, Begnion took realistic themes such as slavery and corruption and because of that it felt far more immersive and realistic is that correct? It also seems to resemble real life history as well and that seems to resonate with you.

Also, while there's no need to apologise, I hadn't got to the part in radiant dawn where apparently Sephiran is revealed to be a villain yet (still on part 3 chapter 8).

​I also like the plot of path of radiance as your goals are clear from the start-defeat Ashnard and reclaim your homeland. It's not like awakening where your main goals change almost constantly...

Edited July 7, 2016 by Dinar87