Should battle fatigue come back as an optional mode?

[Jotari]

It should only be annoying if it's badly designed. A lot of people are quick to judge things without considering how beneficial it actually is in the long run. Just imagine how many people would be against accuracy as a feature of the game if it wasn't there from the start. Yet (I at least) thinks the game's are much improved by having hit rates (here's where someone chimes in and says they would prefer the game if all attacks had 100% accuracy).

[Dinar87]

It should only be annoying if it's badly designed. A lot of people are quick to judge things without considering how beneficial it actually is in the long run. Just imagine how many people would be against accuracy as a feature of the game if it wasn't there from the start. Yet (I at least) thinks the game's are much improved by having hit rates (here's where someone chimes in and says they would prefer the game if all attacks had 100% accuracy).

I guess the real problem is that I have no real way of 100% knowing whether such a feature would actually be fun for most people. It's not like I can get every fire emblem fan in the world to give their opinion on some feature for my game so I have to make do with a relatively small amount of suggestions and make a judgement on those. And I take back what I said about not having a fatigue mode...it's still undecided. The way it would work is...

1. New stat-Stamina (Sta)! The more you have of these the more battles you can take part in in a chapter.

2. Energy bar-once this depletes a character's stats will be reduced by 10 across the board. How many points you have is equivalent to Stamina x 2.

3. Not only can the stat increase with each level up for all characters, but promotions offer massive increases of stamina so you feel really powerful.

4. Enemies will have energy bars as well and can also be tired out. There's even special staffs that drain away an enemy's energy levels!

Entering battles costs 1 point, moving extra spaces than normal costs energy points, using weapons (tomes and staffs as well) is dependent on the rank (e.g. E rank=1 point per use and S rank=6).

Most character's will start with around 16 energy points and can be restored with special healing staffs that heal energy rather than hp.

While I personally think such a system is somewhat unneeded people might just like it. Who knows really?

Edited July 15, 2016 by Dinar87

[Enaluxeme]

The sad thing about fatigue is that it's not something you can try in a single map, so releasing a 1 map demo would'nt help you test the player's reaction :/

However, I'm positively sure that any innovation or old mechanic brought back is going to be quite successful in the hacking realm. If you have something else in mind (and you do, judging by your other threads) you can forget about fatigue.

[Paper Jam]

Jagen growths make characters unusable. Little exp is not a concern when you always use the same 10ish characters (they can gain exp slowly but they'll still hit level 20/20 well before the last chapter)

I can't speak for other games or modes, but if you do that in FE7 EHM or HHM, your Experience rank goes down to 1 star. I assume FE6 HM is the same in that regard.

Sure, not everybody cares about ranked runs, but they would with the right incentives. Maybe gaining X amount of experience in one chapter opens up Y deployment slots in the next?

Edited July 15, 2016 by Paper Jam

[Dinar87]

I assume low manning means to only use 1-3 units for the entire game right? If that's the case, I have an idea...

To stop players using over leveled characters constantly the amount of exp gained from defeating an enemy SEVERELY drops if you in anyway exceed the enemies level. To counter this, most will be high leveled from the get go but, once you have a character that's higher leveled than them, unless you want to waste precious exp you'd better use a weaker unit. This stops units from becoming significantly stronger than most enemies.

But even better than that is the fact that each class would be extremely powerful in it's own way but will usually have a class made specifically to counter them, and that class will have another class to counter it, and so on...this ensures that, unless you've got a good amount of variety in the units you use, you'll face huge penalties. The weapon triangle is now also % based so it stays important throughout the game. Since it's now much more powerful (-or +50% Accuracy and 20% Attack power) this will ensure that you NEED to pay attention to the weapon triangle and, in effect, use more units. You'll also need a counter to magic as well as dark mages are now incredibly fast and accurate (sword master tier)...while light mages are extremely tanky and powerful (general tier).


If you have any ideas for how to stop players low manning let me know!

Edited July 15, 2016 by Dinar87

[Jotari]

I assume low manning means to only use 1-3 units for the entire game right? If that's the case, I have an idea...

To stop players using over leveled characters constantly the amount of exp gained from defeating an enemy SEVERELY drops if you in anyway exceed the enemies level. To counter this, most will be high leveled from the get go but, once you have a character that's higher leveled than them, unless you want to waste precious exp you'd better use a weaker unit. This stops units from becoming significantly stronger than most enemies.

But even better than that is the fact that each class would be extremely powerful in it's own way but will usually have a class made specifically to counter them, and that class will have another class to counter it, and so on...this ensures that, unless you've got a good amount of variety in the units you use, you'll face huge penalties. The weapon triangle is now also % based so it stays important throughout the game. Since it's now much more powerful (-or +50% Accuracy and 20% Attack power) this will ensure that you NEED to pay attention to the weapon triangle and, in effect, use more units. You'll also need a counter to magic as well as dark mages are now incredibly fast and accurate (sword master tier)...while light mages are extremely tanky and powerful (general tier).

If you have any ideas for how to stop players low manning let me know!

I think multiple objectives is always a good idea in general but particularly when it comes to low manning. If I absolutely need to split my army into two or three parties then I'm probably going to want more than one character on each part. I reckon defines maps discourage low manning a lot too (provided you can't boss kill to end the chapter on the second turn) since it's all about defending choke points and making sure every unit is participating.

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

A stamina bar could be added but the consquences shouldn't be as bad as in FE5 with being busted in the next chapter.

If the stamina bar is full you'll lose stats instead.

The stamina bar should recover (discrease) a bit after each turn.

Edit: The length of the bar should be proportional to the unit's level.

I know it's kinda dumb because it disadvantages lower leveled units but it's more realisitic in my eyes.

Edited July 16, 2016 by Ayama Wirdo

[Dinar87]

A stamina bar could be added but the consquences shouldn't be as bad as in FE5 with being busted in the next chapter.

If the stamina bar is full you'll lose stats instead.

The stamina bar should recover (discrease) a bit after each turn.

Edit: The length of the bar should be proportional to the unit's level.

I know it's kinda dumb because it disadvantages lower leveled units but it's more realisitic in my eyes.

The stamina bar would reset after each chapter so right off the bat the consequences wouldn't be as severe as thracia's fatigue system.

You'll lose about 5-10 points in all stats when the stamina bar is depleted to 0. How many points you lose exactly will depend on RNG. It's just better not to run out of stamina.

Not only will stamina recover if you don't attack for a turn (or do actions that specifically point out how much stamina they cost) but you can even recover stamina with special items and staffs.

It would be proportional to the users' 'STA' stat...in other words...proportional to a unit's overall level. Stamina points per map equals STA x 2.

Personally, I think the extra pressure of not relying on just one or two units could be quite fun. It'd need to be balanced so that it's not weak enough to allow low manning and it's not strong enough to make the game incredibly frustrating to play. I think 5 battles for a level 1 unit is ok in my eyes. Anytime a unit runs out of stamina they'll lose stats...they can easily be refilled with energy with items and healers.

On easy mode stamina will barely be an issue but it's a whole different story on hard mode...

In the end though, I still don't see the point of a stamina feature. Unless I'm able to balance effectively two games it'd be too much work to merely include it as an option. Overall, since I see no purpose for the mode, why include it? It's not like there's tons of people who want it anyway....I don't know....

Edited July 16, 2016 by Dinar87

[Paper Jam]

Here's another idea, courtesy of Kaga's upcoming Vestaria Saga: Force the deployment of every unit in the final chapter, and make that chapter so difficult that every single one of your units needs to be of fairly high level.

Source: http://serenesforest.net/2016/07/25/32785/

That would be much more fun than the Fatigue system or Experience rankings and serve the same purpose.

Edited July 25, 2016 by Paper Jam

[Jotari]

Here's another idea, courtesy of Kaga's upcoming Vestaria Saga: Force the deployment of every unit in the final chapter, and make that chapter so difficult that every single one of your units needs to be of fairly high level.

Source: http://serenesforest.net/2016/07/25/32785/

That would be much more fun than the Fatigue system or Experience rankings and serve the same purpose.

How well that works would depend on how big you intend to make the cast from the outset. It's practically the case already for Holy War but I shudder to imagine what kind of bloodbath would result in the likes of New Mystery of the Emblem going that route.

Edited July 28, 2016 by Jotari